Rumor: Baron on the Block?

Moving Baron...

...right now would be a terrible idea. It's not happening, so forget about it. They already moved Fisher, they don't even have a backup PG, why ship away Baron? Only if its for another PG (not like a package, a straight-up good PG). Monta is iffy at PG, he's a SG to me. But we def. don't want an "iffy" PG to start. Remember before we traded for Baron? That's what it's gonna be like. He's not on the move, for sure.

In response to your question, PG, since we're shipping away our only starting-worthy PG. And why would we do that?

by John Patrick on Jul 31, 2006 11:14 PM PDT reply actions

the answer maybe the glove

With all due apologies to the Monta-fans out there who abhor anyone getting in the way of his development, and to those who'd rather have AI, there is a strong veteran PG who is available who has never had a problem calling on teammates to step up, who just won a championship ring playing a subservient role as point guard, and who might actually want to finish his career in Oakland.

It may be time to bring Gary Payton home ...

by hardcore on Aug 1, 2006 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Payton is old and his attitude always sucked

Gary Payton has a horrible investment for LA and had a limited role for Miami. He's been a locker room problem and a hot-head all his career.

by joe sez on Aug 1, 2006 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions

value

Glove could add value as a bkup PG to Barren, spurring him on and providing solid minutes in a role fitting where he is in his career, and should Barren show up out of shape, have a turned ankle that keeps him out forever, or simply can't measure up in the leadership dept (again), then Payton is a capable standin to run the show (though admittedly not score BD ppg). He's played under top notch coaches on his last two teams, and is not the same as when he was younger. Many GSoM fans claim Monta is better off at SG anyway, let him back up JRIch (who is absolutely undeniably untouchable for anyone who even considers it). If Miami doesn't resign him we should give a look at how he could be motivated to finish his career here. And, it wouldn't co$t a ton.

by hardcore on Aug 3, 2006 5:56 AM PDT up reply actions

GP in the Bay

It's a great idea. He has the cred to push Baron and anyone else on the team. GP can also teach them a few things about defense.
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/6/21/14911/6161

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 3, 2006 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Monta

Scrap the whole team. Start over. Monta, Ike, Biedrens, Taft and J-Rich as your starters. Win 12 games all year and get the #1 draft pick. Who's the big catch in next year's draft?

by Schreib on Aug 2, 2006 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions

A terrible idea...

I agree with JP above me that trading Baron would be an awful idea at this point. He just had one of the most horrible seasons in his career, why would we sell so low now? Oh right, we're the Warriors... never mind, carry on.

by DividedByZero on Aug 1, 2006 6:55 AM PDT reply actions

What if Baron stays bad?

Everyone's tradable.

Baron's a bad apple Seems Baron's not interested in getting fit or playing hurt. He's been injured and making excuses for 3 years. He had problems in NO and now has them with GSW.

Let's dump him and his salary. If he's not in top shape, Mullin should give him away and take a bad contract -- "Hello Zeke, Wanna trade Francis for Davis? "

by joe sez on Aug 1, 2006 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Francis?

You gotta be joking. That doesn't solve ANYTHING, and it makes GSW a worse team.

According to reports Baron is actually "working out" this season... as a fan, I'm excited that he might be taking this season seriously... however a part of me feels that he's working out his arm by lifting those fresh glaze krispy kreme donuts.

But if a salary dump comes along where we don't have to take a contract (Can we still trade Baron for Speedy and Dale Davis?), then I'd be okay with that. A better pick for '07 (YiYiYi!) and some extra cash to sign a big time free agent.

by DividedByZero on Aug 2, 2006 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions

Francis!

Hasn't Francis been healthier? He's not good sharing the ball with scoring post players like Ming or Howard but we havn't any.

Getting him is more realistic. We have a injury prone player who fights with coaches and, according to an asst. coach, can be lazy and selfish. Dale Davis and Speedy for him? Not realistic.

Baron talked big last summer but wasn't in NBA shape when the season started -- his own admission. These kind of bad habits are hard to break. I'm skeptical and don't expect him to listen to Monty (or anyone) even if he were healthy and therefore he will cause problems within the team.

by joe sez on Aug 2, 2006 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Chris Mullin Took on a Guaranteed Contract

What motivation is there for BD to listen when he's a guaranteed multimillionaire whether he plays or not?

by pineriver on Aug 3, 2006 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Still Top 7-10

Baron might have had poor shot selection last year and been out of shape, but he's still a top PG. He has the potential to be a top 3 PG too.

Last year wasn't as awful as people make it out to be for Baron. I think there was just too much pre-season hype. Boom Dizzle still averaged the 2nd most assists in the league.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 1, 2006 8:35 AM PDT reply actions

BD still averaged the 2d most assists. . .

. . .and Murphy is always good for a double-double. Forget the stats; look at the win-loss column. BD was truly horrible last year -- and I say horrible because he has the talent to be great, and he just throws it away. He came into the season a hero -- and proceeded to play fat, out of shape, to treat his coach as a pariah, to go his own way, to keep his thumb on the W's one true player (JR) and to toss up the foulest shots on a terrible shooting team. This space likes to jump on Dunleavy continuously (completely failing to grasp his talents), yet as bad a season as Dun had last year he shot better from everywhere than BD did, and he showed much better court sense.
I'd love Boom Fizzle to be great, but with his attitude I just don't see it. If the Sixers would bite I'd trade even up for AI in a heartbeat -- and I'd hope ol' Slo Trigger Mully would do the same.
Meanwhile, won't anyone take Murphy? I realize Foyle is hard to dump, but someone should want Ol' Troy -- who's still a good guy with some important talents (even if he can't or won't play inside).

by johnl on Aug 1, 2006 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions

BD's Attitude > Dun's Attitude + Dun Hype Diary

Remember, Baron's not the one who called out his teammates in the media last year. Dunleavy despite his horrendous play had the audacity to publicly criticize his teammates. Baron and JRich were classy enough to take the higher route and not call him out. I would be so quick to elevate Dunleavy at Baron's expense. If Dun showed up for every game and played hard we'd be talking about how the Warriors ended the playoff drought last season.

johnl- I really encourage you to drop a Diary highlighting Dunleavy's talents and what he brings to the team. I have always thought his talent and "smarts" were way overblown. We'll highlight your diary on the front page too. I personally might not agree with your points and Dunleavy/ Baron (though we seem to agree on a lot else!), but I have no doubt that you will drop an excellent Diary on the topic.

Admittedly, Dunleavy hype is really missing from this blog. It's not something Fantasy Junkie, DJ Fuzzy Logic would write right now given his incredibly lackluster performance the past 4 seasons and silver-spoon-in-the-mouth attitude. He hasn't shown me anything, but Dunleavy seems to have shown you something. Share what you see with Warriors Nation in a diary.

The overwhelming majority of Warriors Nation may be blind to Dunleavy's untapped potential. I doubt it, but show us what you see.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 1, 2006 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Wait a second. . .

Dunleavy's pointing out that the W's don't play team basketball was a BAD thing, and BD's behind-the-scenes, passive-aggressive destruction of Monty (OK, he's a bad pro coach -- but BD sealed his fate) was a good thing?
And just what's your source for Dun's so-called "calling out of his teammates"? What did he ever say about either BD or JR? Have you got ANYTHING specific, or is this just another of those tired tales that spins wider the more it gets re-told? I don't recall anything specific whatsoever, but you must because this is about the umpteenth time you've claimed it to be true. Help me here: what are your sources?
Now here's where we really differ: I'd rather have MD and lose BD if I could get back the difference in their salaries -- close to $10 mill a year, I suspect -- as cap space; you still think BD's going to be worthy because he makes a few highlight plays. Granted, he makes some gorgeous drives -- so does MP, though he rarely finishes -- but he's got this whole other side. He doesn't LEAD a team begging to be led; he takes far worse shots than MD; he plays worse D than MD (HE'S the real matador); he won't give a hard foul like MD (and that elbow to Ridnour -- who was eating him alive -- on MLK Day was purely punkish, especially since it was during timeout when Luke wasn't even looking; he won't listen to, let alone follow, his coaches -- and he came in last year so fat and out of shape it's hard to believe he almost made it thru the first game before injuring himself (BY himself, I might add -- no contact from others). This is you "franchise" guy? This is who you want with you in that foxhole?
Don't get me wrong. MD had a horrible year last year, and backslid from the year before. He missed far too many open shots. He's a competent, but not great defender -- and never will be. He sees the court (like BD) -- but also has a "court sense" that is light years ahead of the more talented Boom Fizzle, who is purely in it for himself. So I'm hardly defending MD's bad play last year; I'm just saying he was no worse than your guy.
In fact, he's no worse than any other W -- except JR (who, I think, is unfortunately trapped in BD's shadow; too bad, because he should shine on his own).
BTW, why do other teams want to get Dun -- who'd clearly be tradeable if he weren't base year? No one seems to be interested in the far more talented BD. And why do you think Boom Fizzle couldn't -- even after much campaigning -- even get a tryout for the Olympic team? Do Ridnour and Hinrich have that much more talent? Hardly? Perhaps others aren't so willing to buy into the BD problems anymore after seeing what he did to Scott and Monty.
As for the rest of W Nation's "blindness" to Dun's talents, all you've got to do is crank up a tape of the Denver game last year where KMart was eating the W's (and Murph, of course) alive until just before halftime, when Dunleavy took him out -- just levelled him with a hard foul on the drive to the hoop. KMart was silent the rest of the game. NO ONE, NO ONE else on this team does that. That's high on the list of things I like about this guy. Nuff said.

by johnl on Aug 1, 2006 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd Take MD over BD Any Day

Great analysis. I would take MD over BD with their current contracts for sure.

Even with MD's typical-Chris Mullin-albatross contract, it's still less than half of the Fifteen Million Dollar Man's! (Even Steve Nash is only a Ten Million Dollar Man - Thanks again, Chris Mullin.)

With all of his frustrating faults, MD played in 81 games last year. He's always ready to go and he plays as hard as he can. I predict in the long run, MD will develop more as a player because of his superior attitude.

by pineriver on Aug 1, 2006 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions

I'd Take BD over MD Any Day

I would take MD over BD with their current contracts for sure.

Pre-Baron Dunleavy was supposed to step up. Warriors Nation was talking a top 5 lottery pick. Post-Baron we were talking playoffs.

Dunleavy's inconsequential. Baron can be a difference maker.

He's always ready to go and he plays as hard as he can. .

Dun didn't show up last season till the games were meaningless. If he played as hard as he could he would grab more boards and play meaningful defense. He's more talented than his numbers last season.

I predict in the long run, MD will develop more as a player because of his superior attitude

What has he done to show a "superior attitude"? He's a role player and needs to adapt to his situation. When has he ever shown a commitment to adapting and playing the role the team needs? This is same guy who refuses to shoot corner 3's or work on it even though it would tremendously help the team stretch opposing team's defenses.

Teams don't make players like Dunleavy their cornerstone. If they do, well then they're the 2004 Warriors Pre-Baron.

Pine- we don't agree here, but I really do appreciate the perspective. It's good to have more than one view in the GSoM community.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 2, 2006 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions

MD passes the ball

MD isn't a team "cornerstone" but he's not paid like one even if he is over-paid. 10-15 M is a cornerstone player.

Is MD's problem he doesn't shoot 3s? This is a team that shoots far too many 3s.

MD does know and wants to to play team ball and has a good BB IQ. He's been a disappointment but this team is too selfish to really evaluate MD's value.

I'd like to see us dump MD for his sake. On a well coached team he'd do far better.

GSW want to play a "street game" that suits Darius Miles. Seriously. Let's trade for him.

by joe sez on Aug 2, 2006 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions

for the record ...

the previous suggestion re obtaining Miles (mine) was a joke ... he is not the answer to our woes

by hardcore on Aug 3, 2006 5:49 AM PDT up reply actions

BD to Blazers

for Randolph - works numbers wise, and now that the Magloire trade is done, Portland may be looking for a PG and ready to deal Randolph

by hardcore on Aug 4, 2006 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions

I'd Still Take MD

I appreciate a debate. We can all learn from each other.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought that highly of Mike Dunleavy. I don't. He has some good qualities, as does Baron Davis.

My point is that considering their current contracts, if I was GM, I'd take MD (@ $7M) over BD (@ 15M).

Two points on MD:

He shows up.

He is coachable.

Two points on BD:

It doesn't matter how good he is potentially - when he's sitting on the bench he's not helping the team.

Don't you cringe when he walks the ball up the court and launches a fadeaway three?

by pineriver on Aug 3, 2006 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions

Oh yeah

Don't you cringe when he walks the ball up the court and launches a fadeaway three?

It drives me insane especially when he's capable of doing so much more.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 3, 2006 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Wait a minute...

Dunleavy's pointing out that the W's don't play team basketball was a BAD thing, and BD's behind-the-scenes, passive-aggressive destruction of Monty (OK, he's a bad pro coach -- but BD sealed his fate) was a good thing?

If my teammates have a problem with me, I'd rather them say it to my face than diss me in the media. Not respecting someone [Monty] who isn't capable of doing their job is natural. Maybe not the nicest thing in the world, but still it's what's inevitable.

And just what's your source for Dun's so-called "calling out of his teammates"? What did he ever say about either BD or JR? Have you got ANYTHING specific, or is this just another of those tired tales that spins wider the more it gets re-told? I don't recall anything specific whatsoever, but you must because this is about the umpteenth time you've claimed it to be true. Help me here: what are your sources?

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=58965

"Mike Dunleavy Jr., in particular, has been vocal about the changes to the Warriors offense under Davis, telling reporters, "We can't just go throw the ball out there and play street ball, and that's what we rely on. You can't just let your All-Stars, your best players, go one on one. As good as those guys are, the other guys are good, too. I've been trying to explain this to everybody since the first game of the season."

What's with Dunleavy's "I've been trying to explain this to everybody" attitude in the midst of averaging single digit points, shooting close to 18% on 3's, and negligible assists and rebounds? Why would anyone even include him in the offense when he didn't come to play all those games early in the season?

Just once I'd like Dunleavy to point the finger at himself and take responsibility for his own poor play. I have never seen him say "I need to do this..." or "I'm struggling..." instead he called out Baron (or Monty) however you want to read it.

Now here's where we really differ: I'd rather have MD and lose BD if I could get back the difference in their salaries -- close to $10 mill a year, I suspect -- as cap space;

Small Forward is one of the easiest positions to fill in the league. Point Guard is one of the most difficult. PG's that drop 9 dimes a game don't grown on trees. Dun's in the bottom tier of starting small forwards (maybe the worst), but BD's still at the very worst a top 10 PG.

you still think BD's going to be worthy because he makes a few highlight plays.

Not sure I ever said that, but the reason I think BD's worthy is because he can create so much offense and easy wide open shots for everyone else (ahem, that Dunleavy airballed/ bricked a lot last season). When he wants to he's a serious thief on defense racking up turnovers which lead to easy transition buckets. That's why I think he's worthy. The highlight plays are nice though!- especially when you suck like the Warriors do.

Granted, he makes some gorgeous drives -- so does MP, though he rarely finishes

Oh man, he does!

-- but he's got this whole other side. He doesn't LEAD a team begging to be led; he takes far worse shots than MD; he plays worse D than MD (HE'S the real matador);

BD had one wonderful half season where he was a great leader and a full season where he wasn't. He's not perfect, but when have you EVER seen evidence of Dunleavy being a leader?

Baron's problem last season was shot selection (probably because 2 of the 5 starters were inept on offense- Foyle and Dun), while Dunleavy's was missing wide open shots. Neither was a good shooter although Dunleavy has less of an excuse.

Both played sub-par defense last year, but Baron has at least played good defense in the past.

he won't give a hard foul like MD (and that elbow to Ridnour -- who was eating him alive -- on MLK Day was purely punkish, especially since it was during timeout when Luke wasn't even looking;

He's a good citizen. I wouldn't read too much into it. He apologized and said he was a embarrassed by it. Why do we berate a guy for an isolated incident and not extoll him for his annual charity classic with Paul Pierce?

he won't listen to, let alone follow, his coaches

Would you listen to Monty? And his problems with Byron Scott stemmed from different views on how he should recover from his injury. It was nothing game related. I don't recollect Paul Silas (man, the Warriors could use him) ever having issues with him.

-- and he came in last year so fat and out of shape it's hard to believe he almost made it thru the first game before injuring himself (BY himself, I might add -- no contact from others).

He's reportedly in great shape right now. What do you want him to do? He made a mistake and he's working hard to make sure it doesn't happen this year. By the way, his injuries last year were mostly freak accidents like rolling an ankle that had nothing to do with

This is you "franchise" guy? This is who you want with you in that foxhole?

I never said BD was the franchise guy. There are no franchise guys when you come off a season like the Warriors just did. Is he a useful piece? Definitely.

Don't get me wrong. MD had a horrible year last year, and backslid from the year before. He missed far too many open shots.

Understatement of the year! Hahaha, just joking.

He's a competent, but not great defender -- and never will be.

Actually he'll never be a competent defender.

He sees the court (like BD) -- but also has a "court sense" that is light years ahead of the more talented Boom Fizzle, who is purely in it for himself.

Baron makes the game easier for others on the offensive side- drawing double teams, penetrating, and dishing off to people for easy buckets. Dun does none of those.

"Court sense" is not backed up by any evidence. It's a construct that can't be refuted.

So I'm hardly defending MD's bad play last year; I'm just saying he was no worse than your guy.

BD's bad season means 2nd in the league in dimes. Dun's bad season means being one of the worst players in the league getting 30minutes a game.

In fact, he's no worse than any other W -- except JR (who, I think, is unfortunately trapped in BD's shadow; too bad, because he should shine on his own).

In addition to BD and JRich, I'll take the seasons Troy Murphy, Ike Diogu, Monta Ellis, and Derek Fisher had last year over Dunleavy's any day.

BTW, why do other teams want to get Dun -- who'd clearly be tradeable if he weren't base year? No one seems to be interested in the far more talented BD.

No one's interested in Dunleavy except for his dad in LA and the Clip's GM is sane enough to stop that from ever happening. Where's the evidence of other teams wanted Dun so badly?

One thing's for sure though- NEITHER are easy to trade right now.

And why do you think Boom Fizzle couldn't -- even after much campaigning -- even get a tryout for the Olympic team? Do Ridnour and Hinrich have that much more talent? Hardly? Perhaps others aren't so willing to buy into the BD problems anymore after seeing what he did to Scott and Monty.

It's insane that neither Boom Dizzle nor Jason Richardson got invites. Ridnour isn't in their class.

As for the rest of W Nation's "blindness" to Dun's talents, all you've got to do is crank up a tape of the Denver game last year where KMart was eating the W's (and Murph, of course) alive until just before halftime, when Dunleavy took him out -- just levelled him with a hard foul on the drive to the hoop. KMart was silent the rest of the game. NO ONE, NO ONE else on this team does that. That's high on the list of things I like about this guy.

So it's dirty and unacceptable for Baron to knock Ridnour but great when Dunleavy levels KMart? Seems like a double standard.

Hahaha and let's just say I don't think KMart is the least bit afraid of the "big, bad, Dunleavy".

Nuff said.

No doubt. I think it comes down to Dun's your boy and BD's my boy. That's fine. We're still rooting for the same squad.

As always, I may not agree, but great comment.

Take the last word on this thread if you want. This is a Warriors blog, not a Dunleavy vs Baron site, so I'd rather not aimlessly continue this discussion.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 2, 2006 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions

BD Vs. Dunleavy...

... is ridiculous. I agree with johnl in that no one in particular is to blame, just the whole team in general. But you would rather have Dunleavy? Come on. Dunleavy's best quality is "court sense" and "IQ and keeping the flow of the game" yet his career high in assists (9) is Baron's average for his BAD SEASON. No comparison. Baron just needs a fire lit from under him. Did he let us down this year? Yes. Does he deserve a lot of blame? Yes. Vs. Dunleavy? No comparison. Baron any day.

by John Patrick on Aug 2, 2006 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Let's start at the top. . .

First off, your TSN quotation from Dunleavy proves my point: HE didn't call out BD or JR or anyone else; he said the TEAM was playing "street ball" and was fixated on "going one-on-one." The REPORTER ID'd Boom Fizzle, just like you concluded that MUST have been MD's focus. (Well, I can see why, given BD's incredibly selfish, non-team play last year. But he certainly wasn't alone in that category. See e.g. Murph.) But the point is, what MD said about the TEAM was dead on -- and it needed to be said because Monty lacked the stomach to force the issue himself. So stop the "MD called out BD and JR" rant -- it just isn't true. And never was.
Second, small forward may be a relatively easy position to fill -- tho you and I both thought the W's should have used their first on one -- you to get MD out; me to get MD at sixth man, where he can excel (tho maybe not on this team). But is point so hard? No, a difficult position to fill is the 4 or 5, as W's recent history will attest. There are 10, maybe 15, points in this league that I'd prefer to BD for a variety of reasons (including youth and health) -- simply because (1) though wildly talented and bursting with potential, BD hasn't ever really made a team shine ('cept for that 30 game mirage after the W's trade), (2) the guy is always hurt (because he's always been fat and out-of-shape), and (3) he's extravagantly overpaid at $15MM plus, especially for a guy who has failed so miserably at making any team better. (BTW, though you've made a nice point-bny-point reply to my post, you did ignore BD's horrendous shooting percentage, which is worse that "Airball Mike's." How explain that?)
Third, the KMart episode. If you don't think KMart is "afraid" of MD, fine. But MD literally knocked him out of that game on that KMart drive to the hoop, with Troy waving him by, and the guy was totally silent the rest of the game. And this doesn't compare with BD's cheap shot on Ridnour: MD was playing the game when he fouled KMart (preventing an otherwise uncontested slam dunk and laying the guy out with a good, hard foul -- no flagrant there); BD had been eaten alive by L'il Luke, and cheap shot elbowed him when the kid wasn't looking long after the play had stopped. No double standard; just hard play during game vs. sucker punch during timeout.
Finally, it might be unfortunate that JR didn't get an Olympic call (though I suspect the rejection of BD had something to do with that), but BD would have been just the kind of poison that so often runs through the U.S. teams lately. Rejecting him was hardly "insane"; rather, it was good, smart thinking. And I don't know anyone who seriously thinks Coach K is insane, do you?
So, thanks for the thoughts, Atma. I'll still take MD and $8+ million of cap space over your guy, Fizzle, any day of the week -- and I see I'm not alone in this. But we both still (somehow) do like these pathetic W's -- so we're on the same page hoping he'll finally be the pro his talent and potential would suggest he can be. (Though I must confess, even though we hear he's now, finally in good shape, the last 4-5 years have made him grow very old very fast -- I'm not sure he's 27, since to me he plays more like 33.)
In short, I hope I'm wrong on this, and if BD takes the W's to the playoffs I'll be a happy fella and freely admit I my error. But only time will tell. And BTW, regardless of how well BD plays, I don't ever see him being competent on defense, which MD now is -- though you still won't admit it. Let the games begin. . .

by johnl on Aug 3, 2006 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions

2cents

about Dunleavy - the guy needs some screens to score, needs a team concept to be effective - which is why he got frustrated and mouthed off about the TEAM but that is a greater indictment of Monty than anything else.
Re Barren, we live and die with him because no one else will touch him, which is why we need a change in the roster somewhere else to change the chemistry (losing Fisher did not help on that side of the ledger).

by hardcore on Aug 3, 2006 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions

You're right. . .

on Dunleavy on both counts -- tho the same was even truer of Mully when he was a W (cuz he was so slow). Now if Dun could ever shoot like Mully. . . .Also right that Monty is most to blame for letting BD destroy the team-play concept. (I just can't figure this out, since he wasn't like that at Satanford; suggests he's just in it for the money, which is very sad, if true. Maybe he'll belly up to the bar this year, but it'll be hard given his coaching last year.). . . And right again on BD: we've got no real option. So might as well hope for the best. Who knows. Ol' Blue Eyes once sang: "Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you, if you're young at heart. . . ." Maybe Ellis can give BD a spark.

by johnl on Aug 3, 2006 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions

a different quote comes to mind ...

we can hope for the best, but based on Barren's past experience I expect the worst and will be pleasantly surprised if we are more fortunate ... there's very little leverage to use for motivation ...

re 2006-7 Woes, a distasteful Bobby Knight quote seems appropriate though I'll paraphrase - since we can't prevent what's about to happen to us we might as well enjoy what we can: the JRich show and hoped for improvement in the young'ns

by hardcore on Aug 4, 2006 4:18 AM PDT up reply actions

The Proof's in the Pudding

I agree with your point on Mike Dunleavy's defense. He shut down some excellent and far more athletic players last season, including Kobe one game.

His defense became kind of erratic at times, but he was one of our best overall defensive players.

What's wrong with Mike telling it like it is? The GSW do try to play streetball, especially when Baron's running point. I think Mike was just trying to get the team to wake up and play smart, disciplined basketball.

I suspect Monty did want to step in and try to get Baron to follow the game plan, but he probably was overruled by Chris Mullin, since Chris has made comment after comment about how the team is built around Baron.

The proof is in the pudding and we will all be able to see what kind of shape Baron is in for the first game, as well as what kind of team leader he proves to be.

by pineriver on Aug 3, 2006 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Great Trade

Any chance to move BD would be a huge plus for the GSW. Chris Mullin tied up the biggest contract on the club (and there are quite a few big contracts) on a player who hasn't played a full season in four years, does not play tough defense, is frequently poorly conditioned, shoots 68% from the FT line, 32% from the 3PT line (and still launches quite a few), and on top of all that has a reputation for being difficult to coach.

My idea would be to trade BD (quick, fast, and in a hurry), for a solid, well-conditioned SF (read Shawn Marion - maybe through a 3 or 4 team trade). We actually have quite a few PG's from the Fish trade to back Monta. I think Monta is ready to go this season.

Then announce to the world that JRich is our rightful franchise player and build the team around him.

There are many scenarios, but the main gain would be to get out from under the biggest contract on the team for one of the least productive players.

by pineriver on Aug 1, 2006 8:39 AM PDT reply actions

PG's

Um.. the PG's we got are CRAPPY. McLoud sucks, he's the only guy from the Fish trade who plays point. Will Bynum is another option, he's not that good as a PG though. This has happened before. Talent is wasted w/o a good PG. Remember pre-Gilbert?

by John Patrick on Aug 1, 2006 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions

2 weeks ago

fyi Woes cut Will Bynum loose ...

by hardcore on Aug 1, 2006 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions

No way

No way he's gone. Baron had a tough season offensivly for sure, but he did finish second in the leage in APG behind only Nash. And I don't think any of those guards we got back from Utah are serviceable starting point guards. The best one of the bunch, McLeod, is the smaller version of Foyle; a decently solid backup at his position on a team with a good player ahead of them starting. And Monta is not a point guard. Always was and always will be a scorer. No Skeelz at the 1.

by MoUpInTheO on Aug 1, 2006 8:50 AM PDT reply actions

self inflicted wounds

For all Barren's stats, he comes up empty where a team's PG and superstar need to shine: leadership.

Not trading him means we risk waiting for a repeat of his act w/Byron Scott (a former player with enough talent and rings to warrant some respect from a player). The Monty-Barren chemistry is awful and there needs to be some kind of change - coach, PG, or add a strong vet to the mix or we'll suffer through last season again, injuries or no injuries.

Mully may not get to be too choosy - he has to try to trade one or more of BD, Dun, TM, or Foyle just to clear some space to work on changing the roster and he doesn't have the luxury to pick and choose as he'd like because other GMs have him right where he put us ...

Re Wilcox, word out of Sea is they already turned down the Woes offers, and are ready to hang on to CW for a one year deal figuring only Charlotte, Atlanta and Orlando are currently under the cap next seasons FAs (at the moment) - Sea really wants to move its own cancerous contract: Miles
(that's for all the SF fans to mull over...)

by hardcore on Aug 1, 2006 9:12 AM PDT reply actions

maybe a 2 fer 1

if the pacers are still looking to reorganize we could trade baron, murph, and mp2 for granger, tinsley, and o'neal. this works on realgm and the stats actually benefit pacers so we could get a draft pick too possibly. then since 07 picks are so valuable we package our too for a young pf like marvin williams, lamarcus aldridge, or villanueva i think the best thing to do is go like the pistons and get solid players in every position, 9instead of trading baron for a superstar. if we trade for granger and tinsley and o'neal we'd have
tinsley
jrich
granger
whoever we trade for
o'neal

that's a playoff team to me

by mydedgerbil555 on Aug 1, 2006 10:18 AM PDT reply actions

speaking of the 07 draft every W fan should

start rooting real real hard for Philly to make the playoffs:

"Warriors are owed a first round pick from Philly for the Erick Dampier trade. This came about somehow between Dallas and Philly and Atlanta in regards to Antoine Walker. ... So the pick hinges on Philadelphia. It's conditional. If the 76ers make the playoffs, the Warriors get the pick, so it will be a mid-to-late first rounder. If Philly ends up in the lottery, the 76ers keep the pick." CoCoTimes, Marcus Thompson 7/28/06

by hardcore on Aug 1, 2006 10:27 AM PDT reply actions

Thanks for the reminder JB

Make sure to keep us updated during the season about the Sixer Watch.

It's supposedly a very loaded draft, so that mid-to-late 1st rounder could be equivalent to a lottery pick talent-wise from this past weak draft.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 1, 2006 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions

Here it comes

Ok, heres comes the same old rhetoric, give these guys a chance to play together. Sounds familiar, repietitive, and most of all stupid. Ike was gone for the first half of the season, baron tanked the second half, and Jrich played the last part of the season on a bum knee. And Baron's injury was more of an unfortunate accident that could have happened to anyone than a direct result of his bad conditioning, though I agree that is a large issue for him. The point is, we havent really put our power foward of the future, and "star" point guard together on the floor for any prolonged period of time. I really think Baron can take the W's to the next level if he is in shape and focused. And what might give him that focus you ask? How about having his team finish with a dismal record, falling very well short of all the hype, and being questioned by fans, teammates, and the media. And check out this clip, brings tears to my eyes when i think of what could be
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CFjkkB0zvw4&search=best%20backcourt

Well theres always next year x12

by FoyledAgain on Aug 1, 2006 11:25 AM PDT reply actions

Woes need to hire that guy!

nice clip - Woes could sure use that for their marketing
thanks for bringing that to the table

by hardcore on Aug 1, 2006 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions

JRich

That, to me, was a JRich only highlight clip. It has a token smattering of BD, but it's 99% JRich. Honestly.

I would not cry if the Warriors dumped BD. Think of the other players we could trade for in BD's salary neighborhood. We could trade strait up for J O'Neal, Tim Duncan, AI, and others.

The money could be better spent in my opinion.

The Bimbo Coles era has BEGUN!!!

by laflyhalf on Aug 2, 2006 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions

The Bigger Issue

I really don't think a BD trade is the answer. I think with a respected coach, this team could play to its potential. Also, BD and JR have seemed to form a bond. JRich has been a dedicated Warrior but trading away his best friend on the team could blow up in our face.

J.cob -greatest accomplishment: coming up with the Golden State of Mind name.

by jdotcob on Aug 1, 2006 12:06 PM PDT reply actions

i sorta agree

i think that they shoudn't shop bd but should listen to anyone who offers. unless you get a deal that clearly benefits the team with no gambles. however if he fails to produce by midseason, or is injured he's gone as soon as possible

by mydedgerbil555 on Aug 1, 2006 12:33 PM PDT reply actions

if we're gonna win...it's gonna be with bd

bd is a good guy...and great talent...but it appears he got a bit caught up in his own hype and took his eye off the ball last year. i think he must have been humbled quite a bit.

somewhere i've read reports that bd is taking this summer more seriously. as a warriors faithful, i'm looking for him to come back with a vengeance this year...both physically and mentally.

i believe this team can achieve what it did at the end of baron's first year (with the W's)....but we need baron to bring back his one-on-one physical dominance and combine it with good court decision-making. if he takes care of the first, i think the second will follow, because he knows how to play that game, i just think he didn't execute on it because he was too tired at times.

a better baron will mean a better everyone else. the fact is that last year, the warriors were at least competitive...they just were awful at closing out games. now, i know that losing is losing and that's what sets the good teams apart from the bad ones. but i also think that it doesn't have to take a lot to get over that hump and get on a roll with a winning attitude. baron can be that difference this year.

p.s. i'm not suggesting that we don't need more from everyone else, including the coach. i'm just saying that we're probably going to live and die with baron this year, given what we have - and i'd like(hope) to think bd is going to pull through.

by TMC Forever on Aug 1, 2006 2:44 PM PDT reply actions

BD gone?

why the hell would we trade for baron and his big contract if we were just gonna trade him away, theres no logic in that, other then, oh, Cohen and Mullin are running things, nevermind, go on and run the team guys

by chingychink2006 on Aug 1, 2006 10:25 PM PDT reply actions

If Ifs Were Fifths, We'd All Be Drunk

A few comments on the comments:

When you are paying a guy $15M, you shouldn't have to wonder if he's having a great summer.

All I keep hearing about is BD's assists. What about FG%, FT%, 3PT%?

What about defense, hustle, dedication, durability, leadership, coachability?

When one player is getting paid over $5M more than any other player on the team, the GM obviously considers him the franchise player.

If

BD was only getting paid about $5-7M per season, which I believe is about what he's worth

and

BD played most of the games during the season

and

BD followed the coach's game plan like a good player at any level in any sport should

I'd have no problem with him.

However, thanks again to Chris Mullin, we have a Fifteen Million Dollar Man that everybody keeps saying if he returns in shape and if he plays to his potential and if he plays the whole season the GSW will make the playoffs.

That's a lot of ifs.

by pineriver on Aug 3, 2006 9:18 AM PDT reply actions