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Thumbs Up on Fish Trade + Worst FA's since 1996

Warriors Nation has spoken and given the Warriors (mis)management a big Thumbs Up for the recent Derek Fisher trade in which the Dubs picked up Devin Brown, Keith McLeod, and Andre Owens (read: salary dump). Only 31% of you gave the trade a Thumbs Down.

fish-trade-poll.jpg

Thanks to all 511 of you who voted! That eclipses our previous record of 435 votes for the Warriors 2006 draft grade. GSoM is growing fast (over 3,000 hits a day!) and we just wanted to send a special thank you to everyone in the community. Your comments, diaries, and enthusiasm are what keep us passionate about this blog. Let's keep going strong (spread the word!) and we'll raise enough money to buy a bunch of season tickets for the GSoM community in no time. Just imagine a whole dedicated GSoM section in the arena!

So let's dive a little deeper into the Derek Fisher era in Golden State. Kelly Dwyer of SI.com recently ranked the Fish and Foyle signings as the 9th worst free agent signing since 1996.

fish-foyle.jpg
One gone, one to go. [Photo: John Biever/SI, Greg Nelson/SI]

Dwyer's take on the ridiculous free agent contracts Chris and Rod handed out to Fish and Foyle is pure comedy:

No. 9:
Adonal Foyle, Golden State Warriors, 2004: six years, $42 million
Derek Fisher, Golden State Warriors, 2004: six years, $37 million

If a deal seems ghastly to most observers on the day it's announced, things usually fail to turn out well for any involved party. Fisher and Foyle parlayed healthy attitudes and defensive mind-sets into outrageous deals in Chris Mullin's first offseason as el jefe in Golden State. Mullin was lucky enough to rid himself of Fisher's baggage this summer (traded to Utah for expiring deals), but Golden State still owes Foyle another three years at nearly $9 million per. It should be noted that the Warriors still hold a team option for Foyle in '09-10 for $10.5 million, just in case he becomes an All-Star at age 35.

Your next question is probably did any other Warriors or former Warriors make the list? But of course! Finally Warriors Nation can have a good laugh at the expense of some other team's fan base. Coming in at #7 Joe Smith in 1999 to the Minne-snow-ta Timberwolves for one year at $1.75 million (i.e. Kevin McHale's shady under the table deal). The Warriors threw away one pick on Mr. or Mrs. Smith, but the Timberwolves threw away three! Good times in the Bay.

Definitely check out the rest of SI's list of Worst Free Agent Signings Since 1996.

3 years from now how do you think we'll remember the Derek Fisher era in the Bay?

0 recs | Comment 32 comments

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Fisher ...
...held down the fort while B.Davis was hurt, SG/PG prospect Monta Ellis was a rookie and when SG MP2 went insane.  

Dumped before his age and salary was a liability.  

Refused to play in a "deep" guard rotation for a bad team.

Was a good addition and value all things considered.

{snark} Added just enough wins to push us down to 9th overall in the draft.

Now Mullin will have to lock up MP2 with a fat contract. {/snark}

by joe sez on Aug 15, 2006 11:34 PM PDT   0 recs

He'll extend Pietrus, he promised 'something'
If Mullin can learn anything, it's that the restricted free agents have little leverage to leave for bigger bucks.  

Historically, it seems that Warrior GMs (or whomever makes the decisions--not sure what the GM does in Oakland if Mullin makes personnel decisions) are a year late in strategy.  When the cap rules changed such that trading for expiring contracts, freeing up cap space became an asset or stockpiling those contracts to leverage to acquire picks and/or good players, the Warriors didn't react.  They had neither space nor players to buy space with.  It took years for the Warriors to realize that not all high school players were super-long-term investments, that the foreign market contained some real good buys.  They've finally dipped into both markets, I suspect their foreign draftees went too high because they were more afraid they'd miss out on the next Gasol or Nowitzki, not realizing that not all foreign-born players are created equally. When the restricted FA rules changed for rookie contracts, Mullin didn't anticipate that restricted FA's would have a tough time moving and as such, he panicked into holding onto Murphy and Dunleavy.  

Anyone want to bet on the next strategic blunder where the top teams figure out a creative use of the draft or cap rules, only to see the Warriors try a pale imitation a year or two later once the market has reacted to the creativity with far less effective results.

by jae on Aug 16, 2006 12:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Humor me
Montgomery was hired to devleop the young talent Mullin assembled -- Exact same logic used by Bulls' GM Jerry Krause to hire IA St.'s Tim Floyd back in 1998.  It has never worked.

POB, Andris & Kosta are variations on Kraus' logic (and others since) of drafting young, complementary big-men prospects: Eddie Curry & Tyson Chandler.  

Neither Chandler or Andris can shoot from outside, are defensive minded, high energy and foul prone.  POB has the nice guy personality of Eddie Curry and has not shown competitive instincts.

Krause couldn't get a top FA so he overpaid for Ron Mercer -- today's eqailivant is Al Harrington.  

Krause needed an all-star scorer and ball handler to kick start his horrible team.  He traded Ron Artest and Brad Miller for Jalen Rose -- a bonified NBA all-star.  Miller and Artest became all-stars soon afterwards.  Rose has the rep of a Baron Davis -- the all-star Mullin traded for to kick start the GSW but thankfully he did it on the cheap.

Kraus fired Tim Floyd and hired Bill Cartwright. I hope Mullin does the exact same thing.  Bill was fired by the new GM John Paxson (a friend and former teammate) and is now an asst. with the Nets.  If Mullin is serious about developing his centers, he should get Bill.  

Also, Mullin needs a cap specalist and advisor who didn't get his/her college degree on a sports' scholarship. He needs some scary smart help.

by joe sez on Aug 16, 2006 8:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

like the comparisons
but am curious, what did BC do as coach of the Bulls that indicates he'd succeed w/GS?

by hardcore on Aug 17, 2006 5:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting who's not on the list
I agree the Dunleavey signing was bad, Murphy's was overpaid slightly too.

But neither of those made the list.  And I think I can see why.

Dunleavey still MIGHT reach his potential, which is to be a solid player who plays the game the right way.

Murphy puts up numbers.  He's not maxxed out, and his contract is coming more in line with his value every year.

While I think the Warriors have made some bad moves with contracts, and I agree with Foyle and Fisher on this list, we also might be too hard on Mullin over every detail.

In other words, some of his mistakes weren't as bad as we slam him for.  But to be clear, I think they still were mistakes.

BD trade could still turn out to be the best or worst thing ever in the history of the Warriors.  In a sense, he traded for the worst contract in the league with BD.  But, if BD turns it around this year, it will turn the whole franchise around.  Time will tell.

I say let Mullin keep going.  He has made some mistakes, but he's recovered from them consistently with decent trades, and I would like to see him grow into the job a while longer (2 years) to really be able to evaluate his moves over time.

I think he says too much publicly (The factor becomes Atlanta, There will be sweeping changes, etc) that tip his hand and actually make it easier for other GM's to take advantage of him or, inadverdently insulting the other team you're trying to do the deal with, and killing any hope of getting it done.

See, once he "announced" sweeping changes, then every GM low balled him all summer because they KNEW he'd be under pressure to get something done just for show, even.  I hate to say it, but that made any summer trade either lopsided or impossible.  He doesn need to take a page from Don Nelson's book on misleading the media and using them to your advantage.

I think Mullin learned THAT lesson this year and won't be repeating it.  It was a rookie mistake, one an honest man makes when he speaks his mind during an emotional time.  But there is a reason politicians basically say nothing to the media.  It protects their ability to function without telegraphing every move.  GM is a chess match.  You really have to be thinking years ahead.  You can't let out your plan because your competitor wants that info to use against you to defeat your plan and make you weaker.  Don't show your cards!

I'm glad Mullin passed on Wilcox.  I'm glad we aren't getting Harrington at the price that was asked for.  That was too much.

See, the pattern is one of learning and not repeating mistakes, so I want to give him more time.  He also showed he's willing to openly take personal responsibility, and willing to take heat rather than make a bad move just to fullfill a promise.  He gets high marks for that.

Later, a deal will open up once people realize they can't take him to the cleaners.  Just like the BD deal, we might be suddenly and completely shocked in a positive way.

Unless, of course, that turns out to be the deal that killed the Warriors for a decade of debt over an injured guy that can't play.

Gime him more time.  He's better thant he last two GM's by a mile.

by Gain on 10 on Aug 16, 2006 7:54 AM PDT   0 recs

Mullin's a problem
I agree the Dunleavey signing was bad, Murphy's was overpaid slightly too.

But neither of those made the list.  And I think I can see why.

Actually Dunleavy and Murphy were extensions, not free agent signings, so they weren't eligible for the list. I dont' mind the Murphy signing because he's productive. The Warriors just overpaid for a productive player there.

The Dunleavy signing was just awful all-around. They outbid themselves on a player that they didn't even need to resign. Funleavy was about to be a restricted free agent, so they controlled the cards if he did blow up last season.

It's debatable whether he's better than Gary St. Jean. St. Jean has a draft for the ages in 2002 with JRich, Troy, and Arenas. The team actually won more games the two seasons before Mullin took office. The Mullin regime is still one of the worst front offices in the league. Great player, awful GM.

See Chris and Rod report card: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/7/3/21228/10893


93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 16, 2006 8:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wait a Second. . . .
As much as you love to jump on Dunleavy -- blaming HIM for being overpaid (but not even at half the rate that your hero, Boom Fizzle, is being overpaid) -- and still defend the Murphy signing (regardless of his incredible inability either to bang with the big boys or play in the paint -- he is a 4, after all), you must realize that Foyle was NOT really a free agent signing any more than MD or Murph.  I seem to recall that he'd been with the team for some time.  So how does Foyle make the list and the lesser paid Dunleavy not?  Hmmmmm.
You've really got to pull back from all your Anti-MD sniping.  I mean, what's the purpose now other than for adolescent chuckles.  (Hey, how about posting yet ANOTHER pic of Dunleavy and a brick wall.  Get it?  Bricks.  Of course the lower percentage shooting, much higher paid BD gets your lifetime pass, cuz he's your wild and crazy guy.)  You want to ignore Mike's strengths, fine.  But the cheap shots directed constantly at him, when this team had such Godawful play from so many last year (including your $17 million dollar man) just reeks of . . . .well, you know.  So, please turn the venom down just a notch, OK?  We just don't NEED to hate on Dun so much.  Thanks.

by johnl on Aug 16, 2006 9:42 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Calm down man
Straight up- check the facts. Dunleavy was extended before he became a restricted free agent. On the other hand, Foyle was an unrestricted free agent. How could Dunleavy be on a list of worst free agent signings? He doesn't qualify.

Show me where I blamed Dunleavy for the signing? It's not his fault that the Warriors gave him that money. It is his fault playing so poorly.

And sorry man- the Dunleavy bricks picture is HILLARIOUS. Always will be. If you can't see that, then it's time to lighten up.

Johnl- I always appreciate your comments. You have a lot to bring to the GSoM community, but why do only post if it's Dunleavy vs. Baron? You have a lot more wisdom to offer than that.


93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 16, 2006 10:02 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

There's always Biedrins
You want he should jump into the Biedrins issue?  

(Maybe someone should start a thread about McLeod or Devin Brown.  Now there are some players hardly worth arguing about.)

by jae on Aug 16, 2006 10:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hahaha
I am still shocked at the turnout we had for the Biedrins grade. It was really fun. Always great to hear the wisdom from the GSoM community even if I don't agree.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 16, 2006 10:15 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL
Seriously, that Biedrins report card thread was crazy, but fun. I can't wait to see the response to the Dunleavy and Baron report cards. Those are on their way as the grades are in, I just have to put them together.

by Fantasy Junkie on Aug 16, 2006 10:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm fine, but. . .
Fairness suggests that when you print a "HILARIOUS" pic of Dunleavy against a brick wall, well, that you make sure to quickly print a pic of your guy Boom Fizzle leaning against two brick walls at the corner.  After all -- and I'm only faulting BD for "playing so poorly" last year -- your guy made two and a half times what Dunleavy'll get and, despite Dun's poor shooting last year, (drum roll, please) BD actually had an even LOWER shooting percentage than MD.  
   Yet as bad as BD was (especially given his enormous potential) you not only continue to give him a pass, you actually think he deserved to be on the U.S. team.  (Fortunately, Coach K gets to make those choices.)  When you get off that horse, and start calling out BD for his miserable play, then you can continue to dump on the lesser problem, Dunleavy.  But as long as you're blind to BD's poor play in 2005-6 (and has he ever been on a winner?) -- about the worst display of leadership of any NBA point last year -- it seems unfair to keep thinking it's clever to snipe at Mike so long, so hard, and so continuously.  As my Daddy used to say: "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."  
   BTW, I don't always post on your MD attackes: I said nothing when you ran the "HILARIOUS" brick photo since it was so obviously just a cheap shot.  But when you went out of your way to attack MD's contract today -- while actually (and peculiarly) defending Murph's much bigger K, you were just begging to be brought down a notch -- and who better to do that than the ever disappointing Boom Fizzle, our $17 million dollar man.  
  So here's a deal:  you halt the anti-MD sniping crusade and I'll stop rubbing your nose in BD's stink by cheap shotting him back.  OK?  Or are the cheap shots just too much fun for ya?  I hope not, because I know you've got some good thoughts, too.

by johnl on Aug 16, 2006 11:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Jeez man
Calm the living hell down man. They both sucked. Everyone knows BD sucked. It's time to take a break.

by John Patrick on Aug 16, 2006 3:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baron sucked...
...but remarkably, his stats weren't too off what he'd done in the past.  He's never been a good shooter.  

The Warriors defy any conventional explanation.  Guys can come here and have their game fall apart or do about what they did elsewhere, but without tangible results in the win column.  I've considered (and have yet to rule out) that it's supernatural in nature; the Warriors seem to be suffering from a curse, and perhaps we don't need a new forward or center or coach or GM.  We need a exorcism.

by jae on Aug 16, 2006 4:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough. . . .
. . . .They both sucked bad, and the team sucked worse.  But one guy on this site -- who's otherwise quite insightful -- just can't take his foot off Dunleavy's neck, while at the same time touting Davis for Team USA.  And that makes absolutely no sense.  
   Which is why I suggested that we agree to stop with the cheap shots all around -- hey, at least until the season's in swing.  Who knows, maybe some of the kids will make us forget about Davis, Dunleavy, Murphy and Foyle altogether.  Ellis, Diogu and the youngsters would certainly be more fun to watch than the current crew.  Now if we could just exorcise Monty. . . .

by johnl on Aug 16, 2006 4:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No cheap shots?
I can lay off Dunleavy.  He's not terrible like some contend, but he's only average for all NBA players and it's terrible to pay an average player star salary and play him starter minutes. I can lay off Baron.  He was still probably a bit above average (remember how bad the point guards who have shuffled through before?) but certainly didn't give it his best in conditioning and seemed to lose interest.  Having a point guard lose interest and eventually just stop showing up for work is probably as bad as putting an average player play starter minutes. Maybe better, maybe worse--your mileage may vary.

But there's still Pietrus.  If I can't take shots at Pietrus, I don't know if life is worth living.

by jae on Aug 16, 2006 6:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Pietrus
After last year, I fully agree: MP is fair game for anyone.  It's one thing not to step up and get better (see MD, TM, BD, AF etc.), it's another to retrogress -- which is what happened to MP last year.  He fully deserves the criticism.

by johnl on Aug 17, 2006 12:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ummmm...
Well i guess when the Baron and Dunleavy report cards come out, this will all come back up again. =)

You know how much we love Dunleavy and Baron, so I think you know what to expect. But just wait, they're coming soon.

by Fantasy Junkie on Aug 16, 2006 10:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Always welcome
You're always welcome to post your own articles in a diary. Fill in what you think is the missing void on GSoM. It's a community based site. You have the power. I looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 16, 2006 8:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Foyle was technically a free agent
Foyle was a free agent.  While the Warriors were in a position to offer him the most money, he was free to negotiate with any other team and free to take any other team's offer.  If he simply wanted out, he could have taken a minimum contract or MLE from anyone and we'd be powerless to stop him.  By that definition, he was a free agent as much as any other free agent is a free agent.

This is very different from what happened with Dunleavy, Murphy and Richardson.  At no time did another team have a shot at any of the three because they have always been under contract here. They were extensions in the true sense that no other team could negotiate with them and if Mullin were wise and had waited, they'd have been restricted free agents at the end of their contracts, where we'd be able to match anyone else's offer.

by jae on Aug 16, 2006 10:07 AM PDT   0 recs

Overlooked Aspect?
One aspect of the restricted free agent I think people are missing is the player can sign a one year deal, play out that one year and then hit the market as an un-restricted free agent.  Imagine that either Murphy or Dunleavy went this route because they were not offered the contracts Mullin offered them and then they blow up in their contract year and leave the franchise.  We'd all be on here saying how stupid it was of Mullin to not sign them to an extension we he had the chance.  Hindsight is always 20/20 and the way things turned out Mullin should have let them become restricted free agents to see what other teams would offer but I don't remember too many people openly complaining about their contracts when they were signed.  Both Dunleavy and Murphy are young enough that they can improve their games so by no means is this issue finished.  I hope at least one of them takes their game to another level because it will help end the playoff drought in Oakland.
PT-42

by norcaldevilasu on Aug 16, 2006 1:23 PM PDT   0 recs

Foresight was 20-20 too.
On other boards I frequent, the consensus --overwhelmingly so-- was that the Warriors should have waited on Dunleavy and Murphy and Richardson.  We'll never know, but before they were extended, it seemed like a bad idea.  When something seems like a bad idea before it happens and a bad idea after it happens, it gets easier to blame the guy who made the decision to make it happen.  

The cap rules heavily favor a team going the extra mile to keep a free agent.  Dun, Murphy or Richardson could have gone the one-year route, but it didn't seem likely to me that they would just to spite the Warriors for not extending them early. If they blew up and started tearing things up, the team would likely have started winning and players like to stay with winners. If they had Dunleavyesque 4th years, who the hell cares if they walk.  Average players aren't so difficult to replace.  Mullin panicked, plain and simple.  

by jae on Aug 16, 2006 4:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Points
But here's the real problem.  It'll be hard for anyone to take his game to a higher level so long as the team continues to play like five guys headed in different directions.  To overcome that we need three things: a GM who can spot and get talent (and shed his mistakes); a coach who understands the NBA game, cares, and gets his guys to play TEAM basketball (see, W's in the '74-'75 season when they last won the championship); finally, they need a point who knows how to -- and will -- play a TEAM game.  Mullin might yet make it, though the present prospects are hardly positive; BD could be a terrific point IF he's healthy and has a MAJOR attitude adjustment (he's really running out of time, so maybe . . . .here's hoping); Monty, though, seems a hopeless case -- a guy who not only lacks the drive or ability to instill anything in his team, he really doesn't seem to be interested in much more than cashing a paycheck.  It doesn't llok good for the guys, but there IS hope -- so I'll continue hoping, for now at least.

by johnl on Aug 16, 2006 2:25 PM PDT   0 recs

fair enough
but at least as restricted FAs GS could have decided whether to match the hypothical other offers ... this summer seems to have shown few teams (other than the Knicks?) seem to be over-bidding on other teams R-FAs (yes, this is the ultimate hindsight) but at THAT juncture  you have an informed choice to make ... y'r right, lots of our griping is hindsight

by hardcore on Aug 16, 2006 2:26 PM PDT   0 recs

Derek Fisher trade
Derek Fisher trade only gets a positive reaction if that includes a deal later in the season to acquire a well-known/decent player.

by John Patrick on Aug 16, 2006 3:28 PM PDT   0 recs

At their respected times
I thought the Fish and Foyle signings were just awful. World class awful. Fish played well (although a terrible distributor) and Foyle well... he's a nice guy! At least the Warriors could move Fish for cap space to nullify the mistake. Foyle will be virtually untradeable until his expiring contract season.

I thought the JRich and Troy Murphy extensions were rushed, unnecessary, and too expensive for two guys who will never make an All Star game. JRich turned out to be a good bargain, but he's still probably not going to make that many All Star appearances if any. Troy is overpaid, but at least productive and consistent.

I thought the Dunleavy signing was (surprise) ludicrous. There was no reason to give him that kind of money for that many years especially when he has been so inconsistent and mostly mediocre. I would have waited and seen what he would get as a restricted free agent. Even if he plays better in the future, it will always be an awful contract because the Warriors could have had him for much, much cheaper after the season he just had. It's like paying $10 at a $1 store. Why would you ever do that?

I don't know whether I'm sad or happy to say this- I think most people in the GSoM community could do a better job as GM of the Warriors than the Chris and Rod show. Oh well, at least it's fun to read everyone's comments here!


93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 16, 2006 8:10 PM PDT   0 recs

fisher
i dont know why an overpaid decent backup pointgaurd that played for a team for two years deserves an ERA entitled to his name - "the derek fisher era"
he was solid and hit some threes but he also put up a ton of bricks and couldn't really create any shots for anyone else.  next up let's talk about the nikolz skitishveli(spelling) era

by travisl212 on Aug 16, 2006 9:56 PM PDT   0 recs

in a few years
in a few years no one will give a crap about fisher no offense

by travisl212 on Aug 16, 2006 9:57 PM PDT   0 recs

Dunleavey is an above average player
Mike Dunleavey is not just "average".  He's above average, but not much above average yet.  Maybe never, BUT- He's shown flashes of great things.  Every once in a while he has one of those games where he does dominate.  Maybe two games a season, but at least he does it sometimes.  The real question is, is that it?

We don't know.

He was picked third.  He was picked at the low point of the franchise, or just after the Jrich draft when the team couldn't afford a mistake in the draft.  Or felt they couldn't.  If Dun was picked at #9 like POB, we'd be singing his praises because he turned out to be better than average and not a bust like POB might be.  Because he was picked third, and hyped as a great player, he is being judged against expectations specific to his situation and not the "average" of NBA talent.

I'd say Zarko is about average NBA talent.  He is similar to Dunleavey in that he tends to play a bit soft and disappears for stretches in games.  But the fact is that Dunleavey can do more things on the court to help his team win.  He's only average in terms of shooting last year and below average in defense, but he can pass, shoot, drive, take the ball up, rebound, get assists. Most average NBA players can't do ALL of those things. The fact that Dunleavey could improve in shooting and defense, as opposed to players having to add a new skill like ball handling,could take him to the level of very good player.  It's a reasonable possibility.

I thought he was crappy last season most games.  I thought there were stretches where he was really trying to coach on the floor and make passes and get players to do things but that it seemed he was either ignored or the play went over the heads of the other players.  Then, he shot like crap.  He was realy bad for a stretch at the beginning and never really snapped out of it.

He was picked too high for what he's become and he's overpaid.  Unless he really makes his skill set more consistent he'll just be slightly above average because he at least is pretty versatile.

Every NBA team would take Dunleavey at the NBA "Average" pay rate.  Because that would be a deal.  He's better than average.  But how much above the "average" pay scale would he go for?  That's an interesting thought.  Not as high as he is now paid, but where would the right scale be?

by Gain on 10 on Aug 16, 2006 10:16 PM PDT   0 recs

Is he average?
That would mean that he's around the  top 15 at his position. When we drop our annual player position rankings we'll see...

It'll be fun!


93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 16, 2006 10:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure we're talking the same average
I meant overall basketball skills, as opposed to specific positions.

Dampier might shake out as an "average" NBA center, but I'd call him a below average basketball player.  He cannot do a lot of things, but the few things he does, he's only OK at.

So, I meant Dunleavey can do more basketball skill sets than most, and is pretty good at SOME of them, and CAN get better at all of them.  As opposed to a player like Murphy that's good at rebounding, shooting outside, and free throw shooting.  And that's about all you can seek from the guy.  He can't run the point forward, he can't pass well.  He looks good in the stat sheet, but his lack of a few other skills makes him an average NBA player to my thinking.

Speedy Claxton would be average.  A solid player, just not great at any one thing.

by Gain on 10 on Aug 17, 2006 1:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm sorry, I think I misunderstood...
By average who are you comparing Zarko to? Who else in the league do you consider average? If, on your scale, Zarko is average, then yes Dunleavy is better than Zarko and thus above average.

I have a hard time believing that Zarko is an average NBA player though.

by Fantasy Junkie on Aug 16, 2006 10:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

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