Steve Drops Science

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 16, 2006 7:50 PM PDT in News

When TNT first paired up former clutch Chicago Bull Steve Kerr with the legendary Marv Albert (FROM DOWN-TOWN!), I was a little skeptical, but over time Kerr has really grown on me. He and Marv Albert are one of my favorite national hoops TV crews. Kerr also writes some great columns for Yahoo! Sports. In Kerr's recent mailbag Steve(n) dropped some serious science on the Warriors:

Why are you so gentle on Mike Dunleavy of the Golden State Warriors? He's a former No. 3 overall pick that has proved to be not much more than a "white hope," yet most of your comments put the onus on Baron Davis. Why the kid-glove treatment of Dunleavy? I enjoy your column, but you're as easy on him as the local press tends to be. They really pander to the readers from the suburbs. We in the inner city clearly see the double standard. You shouldn't play to it.
Steven Millner
San Jose, Calif.

Steve Kerr: Steven, the reason I don't mention Dunleavy in the "Why aren't the Warriors making progress?" discussion is that I don't think he's capable of making a big difference. The difference maker on the team is Davis because when he's right and in shape he's an incredible player. Dunleavy is what he is: a decent NBA three man who is way overpaid. But if he has a really good year, I don't think it will matter that much to Golden State. They're still not going to be very good. Davis, on the other hand, can take the Warriors to the next level because he's amazingly gifted and can control a game. The onus in the NBA is always on the stars, regardless of race, color or creed. If Steve Nash has a bad year, the Suns won't be that great. If Kobe is injured, the Lakers won't be any good. So why would I waste my time ripping Raja Bell or Chris Mihm? Stars are stars; role players are role players. It's not my fault the Warriors made a huge mistake giving 45 million bucks to Dunleavy.

That's right. Steven Millner of San Jo dropped some knowledge. I have to agree with Steve from the Bay and disagree with Steve Kerr and his championship bling here. I do feel that the local media have given Mike Dunleavy a relative pass for his 4 uninspired seasons with the Warriors and criticized Baron way to heavily. GSoM is of course not in that category and a tiny percentage of you have voiced (very loudly) that we do the opposite. Also, I think there is some truth that the local papers and even the Warriors' marketing hypes up Dunleavy to reach the vanilla suburbs of the Bay, but that's fine- this is all debatable.

The bigger issue is whether Dunleavy is capable of making a difference and whether he should be held accountable for the losing. I will contend that Dunleavy can be a difference maker especially with those heavy 30 minutes a game Monty hands out to him, regardless of how poor he's playing. If he knocked down more of those wide open jumpers, shot better than 28.5% from 3pt land and grabbed more than 4.9 rebounds, the Warriors easily would have won a couple more games. Dunleavy is by no stretch an uber-talented NBA player, but he is better than he played last season.

The point isn't to harp on Dunleavy. If you've been reading our 2004-2005 report cards you know that there are a lot of poor grades for a team that overall performed poorly. The point is that everyone should be held accountable. So what if Dunleavy is a role player who by the way is paid like a star, was drafted like a star, hyped up by some as a star, and talks like a star? He's just as responsible as anyone for the losing last season. Dunleavy deserves to be ripped like everyone else not named Jason Richardson on the Warriors' roster. Props to Steven for his email to Kerr.

On a side note isn't it kind of odd that Steve Kerr, a great role player, would downplay the impact and accountability of role players like Raja Bell and Chris Mihm? It seems like a very strange stance to take. Did Kerr really devalue his role and impact that much when he was with the Bulls and Spurs on those championship teams? Seems a little self-defeating. His jump shots sealed a lot of meaningful games. History would be a little different if it weren't for guys like Steve Kerr and Robert "Big Shot Bob" Horry.

Also check out kirkkazas' diary Steve Kerr takes on Dunleavy and challenges BD for more great GSoM discussion.

Do you think everyone should be held accountable equally when a team struggles or should the stars/ best players be held more accountable?

Tweet Comment 10 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Social Justice is great, I'm all for it,

but idiotic race-bating bullshit needs to be called out so we can all enjoy this game. For christ sake, why encourage such nonsense? Steve Kerr is white, so is Mike Dunleavy, as are most people in the suburbs -- no wonder BD gets so much emphasis. No, it couldn't be that he's the most important element on this team next to Jason (who is black) Richardson. Maybe, it's the case that threatened White people are so threatened by black people they are willing to over pay a white loser just to satisfy their sense of white supremacy.

by Jeremy Belvins on Aug 16, 2006 8:57 PM PDT reply actions

If it walks like a duck...

...quacks like a duck
and plays like a dud
it's the duck's fault.

I mean, the onus falls on the player who is capable, and clearing under-performing. Davis can be "stubborn and lazy" according to Mario Elie. Kerr is speaking to those traits and Barion's previously demonstrated and untapped skills.

Dunleavy is not a main guy but can help the team. Using Kerr's Bull's as an anology, Mike is a shorter Toni Kukoc (without the shooting) to Baron's Jordan (cough) and Richardsons' Pippen. If Mike can shoot a higher % from the field - he can be a 6th man of the year like x-warrior A. Jamison or wannabe-warrior Al Harrington.

Accountability:
Every guy who doesn't get sick after a loss is accountable for losing. Often bad teams are turned around by cleaning the locker room but it happens in steps and with gradual improvents.

Musclehead [(tm) E.Dampier] had the locker room painted a brighter color to change the culture!

Cohan is the problem -- he is the only constant. We fans need to file a class action lawsuit for mental distress or encourage SJ city council to bring in a 2nd team.

by joe sez on Aug 16, 2006 9:02 PM PDT reply actions

better play all around

Substantial improvement from any player would help. If Dunleavy becomes a star, shoots near 50% from the field while grabbing boards and dishing assists, it will substantially help the team. If Baron controls the tempo, gets others the easy shots and forces others to play his game (provided that his game isn't low percentage possessions and a third of a season AWOL) the Warriors will be a substantially better team.

Based on their histories, there's reason to doubt either will happen, but for Dunleavy, it will be doing something that he's never done since high school. He played third fiddle as a power forward at Dook behind a rotation of other players who commanded the bulk of the attention most of the time. Baron seems more inclined to be "the man" and as such, I think it's more likely that he'll be the one to turn it around if it happens.

by jae on Aug 16, 2006 10:23 PM PDT reply actions

Of course

Stars should be held more accountable. They're considered 'stars' for a reason. They're the centerpiece of the team. A 'star' should be able to put the team on his shoulders and carry them from time to time. Of course role players need to fill their roles, but in general, the team goes as their star goes.

If Baron plays to his star potential and MDJ plays like he did last year, what happens? If Baron plays like an uninspired guy and is out of shape, but MDJ steps his game up, what happens? To me, in the first scenario, the W's can win 10-12 more games. In the second scenario, the W's win a handful more games.

You can't hold Calbert Cheaney equally accountable as Baron for last season's debacle.

by LancerEvoV on Aug 17, 2006 1:11 AM PDT reply actions

"Next season it all rests on BoomDizzle"

Recognize that quote, Atma? It looks like you answered your own question.

I'm still not clear what you "disagree" with Steve Kerr about. How much more insulting can it be than to say Dunleavy's a complete non-factor and overpaid. Steve Kerr is actually trying to focus on what it's going take to make the Warriors better. He's directly stating that Dunleavy is "average" and "overpaid". What else do you want? What is pandering to the suburbs about his comments?

Please guys...you talk about keeping it "conscious"...but you're not balanced on this one...sorry.

The conscious truth is that BD is going to make or break the Warriors...and that's why he's the focus of these commentaries. For someone given the reins of the team and $15 million dollars....that's fair, don't you think?

By the way, on a side note, I want to comment on your repeated praise of BD's APG stat (second in league). I take no joy in criticizing Baron, because Baron is my guy behind J-Rich....but this stat could be good or bad. It's possible it's bad if he holds the ball too long then drives and dishes for last second bombs. Perhaps, just perhaps, there's an argument for more motion in the offense, where more people touch the ball and we get better shots, yet Baron's assists go down? I'm sincerely not sure....but I'm certainly not overly impressed with the APG stat. If I look too hard at stats, then I'm going to look at ESPN's stats for point guard shooting percentage and read too much into the fact that BD is DEAD LAST in the league.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbafgpct&league=nba&split=0&sort=fg%&a vg=none&qual=true&season=2006&seasontype=2&pos=pg

Am I going to say Baron sucks because of this? Hell no. You and I (and the analysts) know that Baron is a great player...and we just saw that he happened to play not so great last year.

Like it or not...that's the story for the Warriors....last year and this. Dunleavy's poor performance did not go unnoticed nor unspoken....it's just not as big of a factor in the W's success, or lack thereof. Get used to it...he's not gonna save us.

The truth is we all (you, me, analysts) expect more from Baron than he gave us last year.

I agree with you, Atma: Next season it all rests on Boom Dizzle...and I welcome Steve Kerr in agreeing with us, too.

Alas, that's the main reason I write: In supporting Millner's comments over Kerr's, you're questioning Steve Kerr's integrity as a human being. That's serious criticism, Atma. I urge you to keep this on the basketball tip and check that at the door, unless you've got something better to back it up with.

Good work on GSOM! Go Warriors!

by TMC Forever on Aug 17, 2006 12:30 PM PDT reply actions

... to step up his game

"Next season it all rests on BoomDizzle"

I meant that to mean Baron has to take the initiative to step up his game, not that the success of the team completely rests on him.

Accountability for everyone from the star players to the guys in the front office. That's the only way to stop this losing mentality.

What is pandering to the suburbs about his comments? Please guys...you talk about keeping it "conscious"...but you're not balanced on this one...sorry.

Like I said above that wasn't the main point of my post and "that's fine- this is all debatable." Again, fill the void on anything you think is missing from our analysis. This is a community oriented site. I can't represent everyone else's viewpoints, but I can express mine and leave it open for discussions with the comments and diaries.

To some degree yes. But let's look at KG in Minne-snow-ta. Big dollars and a big time player. It's not his fault they missed the playoffs last year. Now, Baron's not at his level, but same logic applies. This roster and coach are very flawed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbafgpct&league=nba&split=0&sort=fg%&a vg=none&qual=true&season=2006&seasontype=2&pos=pg

You are exactly right. His shooting was awful last season, but I thought his passing and distribution were for the most part excellent. I watched about 90% of the games last season on TV or in person, so I'm not just getting that from the stat. I use the 2nd in the league in assists line because it's the easiest way to give him props for his passing. I'm completely open to other ways to bring it up. Any suggestions?

Am I going to say Baron sucks because of this? Hell no. You and I (and the analysts) know that Baron is a great player...and we just saw that he happened to play not so great last year.

The truth is we all (you, me, analysts) expect more from Baron than he gave us last year.

That's a very fair analysis. I think everyone should be expected to make a positive impact, but that's the point of this open-ended discussion.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I do indeed hold Steve Kerr and other role players in very high regard. What I thought was confusing from Kerr's response was the devaluing of role players like himself. It just seems so odd. I thought Kerr brought a lot to the table with his outside shooting and experience. That's something Kerr should be really proud of. I respect him a lot for that plus his typically good writing and TV work.

Nice comment TMC Forever.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 17, 2006 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions

We're good.

Atma,

So...we have a few different threads here:

We're talking about BD: To me, it's fun talking about his strengths and weaknesses...what he does well...what he can do to improve....etc.
You're talking about accountability: I agree with you that we had a very poor season again and everybody had a share in that. But what exactly do you mean by accountability? If it's words and apologies, I've heard them. I don't think the team is making any excuses. Otherwise, we can talk about what moves to make, but I don't want to talk too much more about this because the trigger of this topic was...

3)Millner's accusation that the media (and Kerr) are deliberately mis-stating their opinion about Dunleavy to appease the suburbs. Do you agree with Millner's accusation? Because while you changed the subject to accountability....you left the impression that you agreed with Millner's comments by taking sides with Millner over Kerr. You see, Millner didn't talk about accountability. His specific purpose for writing was saying that Kerr was harder on BD than MD because he was trying to please the surburban reader. That's a serious accusation. Kerr respectfully answered it...and I personally think it was a reasoned and logical answer.

I'm want to live in a rich and diverse community...one that respects one another and doesn't take it lightly to question another's integrity.

Lots of love for you, Atma. I know you didn't mean any ill will. I truly believe that. I just think people throw around this stuff far too lightly...and don't appreciate how serious those statements are.

by TMC Forever on Aug 17, 2006 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Always a pleasure TMC Forever

2. I've heard plenty of excuses, but I've actually only seen one classy apology from JRich: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2006/4/19/164039/466
and he didn't even need to do that. The only apologies I'd like to see are from Cohan and Rowell.

Millner's accusation that the media (and Kerr) are deliberately mis-stating their opinion about Dunleavy to appease the suburbs. Do you agree with Millner's accusation? Because while you changed the subject to accountability....you left the impression that you agreed with Millner's comments by taking sides with Millner over Kerr. You see, Millner didn't talk about accountability. His specific purpose for writing was saying that Kerr was harder on BD than MD because he was trying to please the surburban reader. That's a serious accusation. Kerr respectfully answered it...and I personally think it was a reasoned and logical answer.

I don't think Kerr himself is trying to appease the suburbs. Kerr's a former player. He knows the game. His doesn't have the same agenda as others might.

I do think that the Warriors' marketing in the past has used that strategy pretty intentionally. As for the local media, sometimes I've felt they've done the same (not this past year though) whether it's intentional or unintentional- who knows?

Again, I'm just being honest about my opinion. I'm not trying to make an accusation on the Warriors' marketing or the local media. It's just the feeling I've gotten sometimes.

My point was:

Also, I think there is some truth that the local papers and even the Warriors' marketing hypes up Dunleavy to reach the vanilla suburbs of the Bay, but that's fine- this is all debatable.

And definitely keep up the great discussions. It's fun for us to drop articles, but what really keeps us going are everyone's comments and diaries.

93 'til Infinity: The Warriors' playoff drought?

by Atma Brother ONE on Aug 17, 2006 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Geez!

I think all three of us are on the same page here. We all agree Davis and Dunleavy had bad years. We all agree Davis, not Dunleavy, is the potential difference maker. We all like what Davis COULD bring to the game and the team, given his enormous talent. And we'd all like to see it happen. I Kknow, I know: From our lips to God's ear.

by johnl on Aug 17, 2006 2:05 PM PDT reply actions

It is about the Star

Harp all you want about Dunleavy getting easy treatment because of his race, but that's not it. It would be true if Dunleavy was getting paid the same as Baron.

Last year Baron got $18M, Dunleavy $9M.

Baron's the supposed "franchise" player. Kerr understands that. If nothing else, he knew then and knows now that if he played lights out as a role player, it still would not have much of an impact unless the star, MJ, was playing like the superstar he was. If not, Kerr could not carry the team, just like Dunleavy is not going to carry the Warriors (at least not now.) As a #3, maybe he should have, but he's not and that's the fact for now.

by philsmith75 on Aug 17, 2006 5:50 PM PDT reply actions