2nd Best PG in the League

by philsmith75 on Oct 31, 2007 10:20 AM PDT Comment 31 comments

We saw him last night and he did not have a W's jersey. (Of course Nash is #1)

Deron Williams is so good; always in control, makes the good easy pass, and can hit the tough jumpers and the ones when he's left wide open, and can finish.

Baron scored just as much as Deron and probably had more assists but Williams positive plays out of a higher percentage.

I really appreciate Baron and without him it would be worse than the Atlanta Hawks; just wish he could have hit a few jumpers and finished a couple more at the rim (oh yeah and his some damn FTs).

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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100% agreement

Williams will receive a lot of respect this year as one of the best PGs in the game right now.

Dammit Dampier!

by attatt on Oct 31, 2007 10:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Easy there...

To me, #2 is still to high for D. Will. He is great at getting looks for himself and Boozer, but great pg's get EVERYBODY involved better. Though, to me, he is the lead guard of the future....I still don't think he brings as much to the table as Billups, Kidd, or Gil (though he is a different type of pg)....I love Williams' game, but let the kid have one more good year before you throw up statements like that....peace, dan

by BeLEGENDelliAllDay on Oct 31, 2007 10:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

gg

You lost all credibility when you neglected to mention Nash, and instead opted to mention Gilbert Arenas. If it's one overrated player in this league, its Gilbert Arenas.

The season's started, so I went back to Albert.

by coma on Oct 31, 2007 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My guess is...

that he had Nash at #1.

by xacto on Oct 31, 2007 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

im also guessing that,

like the writer of this diary, he weant along with Nash at #1 is a given.

by Proof on Oct 31, 2007 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

DWill is good...

But not that good. He's a great player, and will make the all-star game many times. But he's not as good as Baron Davis yet, in my opinion. First off, he's not as good of a rebounder or defender. But also, he has Carlos Boozer on his team. DWill does a great job of controlling the game because half of the time he drops it into Boozer. I'm not discrediting his talent, just saying that when Baron comes down the floor to make a play, he has to create. Deron can come down the floor, dump it into Boozer, and voila, he just ran the O to perfection...

by bradyk2 on Oct 31, 2007 10:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Did you see his jumpers?

He hit at least 2 or 3 huge rough jumpers which killed any Warrior comebacks. He does not just dump it to Boozer.

Nothing better than "The City".

by philsmith75 on Oct 31, 2007 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Williams is good...

He played well for my Fantasy Team last night, and he's very consistent. I think the only thing that separates Baron and Williams is the aggressiveness. Baron is all over the place on offense and defense, Williams is more conservative and doesn't drive to the basket as much to score but just to draw defenders to look for open feeds. As Baron is more aggressive on both ends, he did get more steals, but he does take a lot of risks which can bite him in the ass.

I don't think that its fair to say that D. Williams is no good without Boozer because you can say the same thing for Tony Parker (who really isn't great to begin with). But D. Williams looked really good last night because Monta was guarding him for a large portion of the game. He would pump fake Monta and then go to the rim, someone would have to help on D leaving Boozer/Brewer/Milsap open for wide open dunks/layups. Williams is good, but him and Boozer look like excellent players against us.

by david240z on Oct 31, 2007 11:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

2nd best?

Baron, Tony Parker, Gilbert, and Kidd are better. I personally think CP3 is better too but I know I'm in the minority there

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Oct 31, 2007 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

we will see

Parker isn't a true PG and he's pretty restricted by that system. He's quality, but how quality ...we'd need to see him on a different squad.

Arenas isn't a point guard. He's a shooting guard. If I listed Pietrus at the 1, that wouldn't make him a PG either.

Kidd is on his way down. Defensively he's already lost a step and can be beaten by quick PG's. Offensively he's big and strong and has sufficient handles to still be effective. If I put Deron ahead of him now, I suspect at seasons end people wouldn't think I was crazy.

Baron...can't turn the ball over 5 times.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Oct 31, 2007 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

Kidd may have his best years behind him, but he is still elite at running his team and setting up his teammates to score. The youngsters may be getting faster, but he's got experience and wisdom on his side.

I pray i never have to use a gun again.

by ssmokinjoe on Oct 31, 2007 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

Parker's ability to drive and finish is second to none among point guards. I guess that might not be an ability that you would attribute to a "true pg" but it definitely helps his team wins basketball games

I consider Gilbert a point guard that shoots alot. If that means he's not really a point guard, fine, but if I were an NBA GM that needed a point guard, I'd rather have Gilbert than Deron.

Kidd usually guards the other team's best perimeter player. I don't know if that says more about Kidd or the Nets...

If you take health out of the equation, Baron is easily better. If you want to include health than Deron's probably better but I was thinking more in terms of playing ability

I like Deron, and he's a more valuable asset than everyone listed except for Parker when you take injury risk and age into consideration, but as of right now, he's not better than any of these guys.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Nov 1, 2007 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep this in mind...

D-Will is just a third year player. All those other guards mentioned have a schwatload more experience in the league. You can argue either way, really, but time is going to turn this kid into a monster pg.

shadowboy

by shadowboy on Oct 31, 2007 1:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

2nd best, hmm?

#1. Steve Nash is the best-bar none.

#2. J Kidd has an arthritic Vince Carter and an injury prone Richard Jefferson. Other than that, the Nets really suck yet J. Kidd is still a shining star at PG.

#3. J. Williams has all the tools except age. He still makes some mistakes like getting in foul touble, but he shoots well, passes very well and drives to the hoop extremly well. His court vision is awesome and he plays the pick n roll as well as anyone. If D Will had New Jersey's roster, his stock would be slightly down. That's why Kidd is ahead.

4/5/6 Baron, CP3 then Chauncy Billups.

by gabezgsw on Oct 31, 2007 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

er...

seems like you underrate vince and krstic while overrating the east.

and it should be Ason Kidd b/c the man has no 'J'.

by the evil monkey on Oct 31, 2007 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

D not J

He had a typo. That's Deron, not Jason Williams. Read the rest of his comment and his reference to "D Wil"

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Oct 31, 2007 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i know

i'm talking about jason kidd. i call him ason cause he has no J as in jumper.

by the evil monkey on Oct 31, 2007 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

neither did Magic ohnson

by hardcore on Oct 31, 2007 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

really?

magic's before my time, but his career fg shooting % is 52.0%, ason kidd's is 40.2%.

he's 84.8% from the line vs kidd's 77.9%.

they're both crappy from 3, at 30 & 33, respectively.

by the evil monkey on Nov 3, 2007 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

REALLY...

Magic had a set shot. It looked like how a lot guys throw up lob passes. Rarely used it. Posted up a great deal and was at the charity stripe 10-12 times a game.

THIS IS OOOAKLAND!!!

by Tim N Chris Burger on Nov 4, 2007 8:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed with above

Deron's good no doubt, but hes also got a nice system in Utah....
I'm anxious to see CP3 this year...I think he still might be a better distributor, I mean he turned David West into a 20 10 guy a couple seasons ago and almost took a crippled hornets team in the playoffs.

by FuasonPrince on Oct 31, 2007 3:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Utah's system

relies on the PG more than the PG relies on the system. You couldn't just plug in any ol' guy.

And I think there's very little doubt left that DW was the right pick over CP.

by shadowboy on Nov 1, 2007 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

plus minus

an interesting diary a bit ago displayed Baron's importance in re plus/minus for his team - might consult that when comparing PGs too ...

by hardcore on Oct 31, 2007 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

well

+/- have a plethora of extenuating circumstances.

baron's always been one of the most talented point guards in the league, if not the most talented. i'm not going to go into his injury issue which is out of his control - but his 2 major weaknesses are his decision making and outside shooting.

falling into the decision making category, baron sometimes commits the cardinal PG sin of not trusting his teammates and trying too hard to force things, abandoning all remnants of ball movement ala kobe or iverson.

by the evil monkey on Oct 31, 2007 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

trust

has got to be earned - who currently on GSW would you rather have take the big shot than Baron? That said, I agree that the truly great PG make the team better ala Nash, which was one of the reasons I was a s t o n i s h e d by the order and ranking of the top 15 plus/minus:

1. Garnett, Kevin 12.35
2. James, LeBron 12.01
3. Duncan, Tim 10.89
4. Arenas, Gilbert 8.80
5. Kidd, Jason 8.74
6. Bryant, Kobe 8.70
7. Davis, Baron 7.72
8. Wade, Dwayne 7.56
9. Pierce, Paul 7.24
10. Ginobili, Manu 6.77
11. Nowitzki, Dirk 6.45
12. Brand, Elton 6.30
13. Artest, Ron 6.25
14. Parker, Anthony 6.13
15. Nash, Steve 6.04

I'm not a stat geak/freak, but that BD was so high (and Nash that much lower) was still a surprise to most I'd bet (I know, I know the rest of the team's make up means Baron's contribution is disproportionately higher but still ...)

by hardcore on Oct 31, 2007 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think his defense

or lack thereof has something to do with it.

THIS IS OOOAKLAND!!!

by Tim N Chris Burger on Oct 31, 2007 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As amazing as Nash is on offense....

he allows the opposing point guard to be almost as effective.

Of course, other point guards do not posses the same skillset as Nash does; the Canadian is more effective against even good defensive point guards than your average point guard is against the porous defense of Nash.

If the warriors replaced Baron with Nash, the team would actually be worse for it in my opinion. But on a team with more defense and size at other positions, Nash is probably considered to be more valuable.

by BingBluNT on Nov 2, 2007 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i disagree on the trust thing

while players have to earn the trust of their coaches, teammates must always trust their other teammates both defensively and offensively.

this is the problem jordan had pre-championship. iverson and kobe are the latest examples. the point guard must always trust his teammates and continue to set them up in the best position to convert their shots. as a leader, you have to have the capacity to show faith in your teammates to help make them better. let the coach decide who to take out for being ineffective.

by the evil monkey on Nov 3, 2007 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly

If I had to name a few of the most under rated PG's in the L: Deron Will comes up first place, and I Hizz-ate the Jazz, so it must be true.

Honorable Mentions : Tony Parker, Mo Williams, Hinrich, CP3.

Put a little mustard on it

by The Barnes Supremacy on Oct 31, 2007 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah

fans generally underrate guys like deron & tony parker b/c they don't truly understand the point guard position.

i hate the jazz, but if i were starting a team and could pick any point guard, i'd probably start w/ deron b/c he's probably the most complete point guard in the league.

by the evil monkey on Oct 31, 2007 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs