Money State of Mind $$$

by gabezgsw on Nov 12, 2007 12:44 PM PST Comment 31 comments

Sports kind of lacks something when you play just for $. With millions of dollars being given out to players that basically "play" for a living, go to charity functions because they are FORCED to as well as be nice and "pc" in front of the camera because they HAVE to is a distressing thing to see. I guess it's just another illustration of how money driven everything is. Everyone has their hands out looking for something and rarely does anyone want to do anything because they like to do it or want to do it. If there is no incentive, then it seems like they don't want to contribute out of good will.

Money even dictates a lot of what and how people talk about sports. Am I right that there are some people on this site that are more concerned with salary caps, IIRC, RFA and TPE's as opposed to a classic give and go or the joy of watching someone bust their ass because they actually love to play basketball?

Buike is a great example of a guy who WANTS to play, WANTS to win and will do anything to get it. He's humble and driven. Once he becomes "successful" will he ask for 48,000,000 over 6 years? I phucking hope not. Why? Well, because he would be doing the same crap a lot of other professional players would be doing and that is being money hungry, greedy and egotistical. What happened to players that played for the game, didn't bitch about a pay check that 99.999% of the world doesn't get and the chance to be a winner at the cost of them making a million less? Those days are gone my friends.

What happened to going to the game early and watching warm ups, checking out how each player shoots, moves off a screen and interacts with other players? People now don't seem to be interested in that anymore. It seems now that fans are into all the "sizzle" of corporate sponsored time out breaks whoring out some product that in two years no one will give a crap about because it got bought out by ATT, Comcast, GE or Oracle.

What happened to you knowing who was going to be on the team next year or never hearing about someone's contract expiring and it never crossing your mind wondering what team will pick him up? What happened to loyalty, what happened to wanting to win without throwing away major components of your team just to save "potential signing" dollars instead of keeping successful stars you already have?

I'm thinking I'm in the minority here that sports was better when it was "innocent" of being in bed with corporate sponsors, better when it had players more concerned with a sense of "team" instead of their own financial status compared to a peer. Better when you talked about movement, spacing, ball rotation, pick and roll defense and rebounding techniques instead of which girlfriend a guy like BD or Tony Parker was out with last night at the CNN/Time Warner/Red Bull/Comcast/Oracle/Progressive Insurance/iPod dinner last night in Los Angeles. I'm also thinking that I'm in the minority here that a guy like Buike was going to be on our team anyway, regardless if J Rich was going to be around or not. $600,000 is chump change and we would have signed him regardless if we still had to pay J Rich's salary or not, so it's not a "genius move" to get Buike. Buike would have been an awesome player to have come off the bench. Instead he has to start because the Warriors were too concerned about tomorrow instead of today by trading J Rich for a guy that so far has played 4 minutes all year and "may" be good down the road. What did we do with the money we "saved" by trading our longest tenured Warrior who was maybe the glue to the team? We got the guy that has played 4 minutes all year and another who is in the D-League and SUCKS (Kosta Perovic).

If you took out all the fireworks, Club 200, all the HD Jumbo Tron score boards, the South West tools that come out during timeouts, the flash or sizzle if you will, how many people would still go to the games? Sports has become a show more than a competition. I guess I just like basketball, but when you factor in all the marketing, financial involvement and greed, I'm a little bitter. At this point the J Rich trade has made more sense than ever. It had to do with marketing, financial involvement and greed on our owners part-not basketball and winning! I may be naive and a little old school, but man was sports better when all the $ wasn't such a monumental influence as it is today.
Any thoughts?

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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i want

World peace! No wait, I don't. That might ruin our economy.

NBA = Professional basketball.

PROFESSIONAL = business = money.

I wish there were an easy way to say this, but frankly, the best thing I can do for you, i suppose, is be honest:

Get over it.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Nov 12, 2007 1:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah

Pro sports were never innocent. They were started to make money.

Just because the money is bigger and the rules more complex doesn't mean that the game is more "evil" or "less innocent" than it was before. It's the same thing on a bigger scale.

I think I'll go up to my nearest Wal-mart and scream at them for ruining the world.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Nov 12, 2007 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha

I'm sure your Wal-mart comment was less than serious (it did make me laugh after all) but I just had to add that their business practices make me sick. I'm probably a bit of an idealist and a sucker for anti-corporate documentaries, but it would be nice if the Walton family and Lee Scott had some sense of responsibility to anyone but themselves and to a lesser degree their shareholders. Oh gosh, I'm ranting... I'm supposed to be the happy-go-lucky one around here I better stop. =P

by olympicmike on Nov 12, 2007 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When I was in India this summer

There were reports that Walmart was coming to town (Mumbai). A ton of local businesses went on strike and protested. Made me proud.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 12, 2007 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good for them...

I can only hope that someone listened. A Wal-mart can completely ruin a local economy. Pretty soon all those small businesses will go under and they will find themselves working in a blue vest making less than they can reasonably live on, but hey everyone in town can pay $1.39 less for a sweatshirt or buy a DVD for $5.00 so I guess it all evens out... or not.

by olympicmike on Nov 12, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

true true

well you gotta remember small business go out of business because they cant compete.. capitalism at its best..

by rAybOund18 on Nov 12, 2007 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

"small business can't compete"

Yes, but you should be asking yourself a question, "why?". Why can't small business compete with Walmart? If you are really interested in learning about this check this out, it's a good place to start:

http://walmartwatch.com/

and if you get a chance check this out:

http://www.walmartmovie.com/

I think you can find it OnDemand with comcast.

by olympicmike on Nov 12, 2007 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be proud too

India FTW!

Tony.psd = Da Man

http://adonalobsessed.blogspot.com/

by Zorgon on Nov 12, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm no authority but

I'd think that sports and money have run hand-in-hand for as far back as organized sporting events began, whether that be jousting against a rival knight on horseback, raising animals to fight or getting your ass chased around by a lion in a gladiator's pit - money has always exchanged hands

It may seem more explosive and in-your-face than ever before but that's because we're in an age where the media makes access to every crumb about sports and the people who play them, so readily available. I imagine people have always been interested in the non-competing lives of the sports icons they idolize; they are in fact, "heros" to some degree, a way to step outside yourself and escape the ordinary hum drum of life and share the triumphs or failures of another, even if for only a brief period of time (how many of us have taken the baseline, headfake, turn-around, MJ fadeaway jumpshot over your buddy and pumped their fist when it swished right in?)

They're a lot of things you wrote that I totally don't agree with but it's all POV so no biggy. To summarize I'd say, not all athletes are about the money, most started from nothing, found their niche throught talent and experience and are now competing at the highest level. It's bound to get ugly at that level; money and sports, hand-in-hand traces back as far as you can imagine and lastly (sigh)...

Jason is gone now. It's time to let go.

"Hey, i'm a warrior fan so i'm naturally pessimistic." - Kenntoe

by Anomaly on Nov 12, 2007 1:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

EDIT: "There are a lot...

not "They're are"

Man. Stay in school kids.

"Hey, i'm a warrior fan so i'm naturally pessimistic." - Kenntoe

by Anomaly on Nov 12, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hay,

i thought Atma promoted the whole blog within a blog thing. dude just blogged his thoughts, no need to throw them stones

Ronald Reagan was a jerk.

by Nooob on Nov 12, 2007 1:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Amen

I'll drop a response when I have some time later tonight, but I give gabezgsw a ton of credit for dropping his honest thoughts so candidly. There's some points I agree with and ton I don't see eye-to-eye on (as you can probably tell from over the years), but that doesn't mean I can't respect him for trying to promote a good discussion.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 12, 2007 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wow!

Sorry if I pulled a hair out of you back side OZ, I just wanted to start a discussion on a site that has been praised for its diversity of topics and tenderness towards its bloggers. I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut.

I do post a lot on the topics concerning hoops aside from the business end of it so I don't know where you came up with that.

Also, to attempt to address an issue, it needs to be presented, hence the mention of the issue itself. I wasn't whining, I was stating my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions...I thought I was over the trade with J Rich. I guess it got rekindled because I thought B Wright was going to at least play this year and we are 0-5.

I just wanted to hear what people had to say on this topic. I guess as I stated before, that I'm in the minority thinking that money has reduced the purity of hoops and professional sports... Oh and to answer your question Zero about what I am, I'm a guy who goes out into sun light, gets out of my cave and see's what's out there in the world like you know, people, personalities smells, sights, sounds and surroundings. Its cool, you should try it out after your 23rd hour on the computer.

by gabezgsw on Nov 12, 2007 1:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

if

You can blog about how pro sports is going down the drain, then I can blog about people who blog about how pro sports is going down the drain. All's fair, right?

Furthermore, if I didn't spend 23 hours on the computer at work/school, how could I possibly afford to buy all that J-Rich memorabilia?

Then again, it's probably gonna be on sale soon...
...at the bobcats arena.

Curious how you praise Azubuike for working hard for chump change, yet give no credit to the Warriors for identifying his talent and acquiring it at minimal cost. But they're a greedy corporation, so let's just burn the Oracle down right now, eh?

JRich is gone.
His departure opened up a spot for Azubuike (at starting shootin guard).

If you want to talk about greed, why not talk about JRich's greed? He's cashing his $12M paycheck to stink.

Hard to see the truth in all that daylight, huh?

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Nov 12, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

discussion

On the "discussion":

If his view is correct, and my view is incorrect, and he succeeds in convincing me, then I have been educated and therefore benefited from his blog.

If my view is correct, and his view is incorrect, and I or anyone convinces him, then he has been enlightened and benefited from his blog, which begat my comments.

As for giving "props" to someone for a diary or comment, I can't think of any better "props" than to spend time and effort into thinking about and writing a reply. Were I to start a diary, I would rather have 10 comments about the topic than 1 comment saying "good job". Likewise, I would think GSoM is grateful merely for users continuing to visit the site, as they have given the greatest gift possible: time.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Nov 12, 2007 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So, um

It's not OK for OZ to speak his mind about the content of a diary, but it's totally cool for posters to attack him personally for being a geek who never sees the light of the day?

Just checking.

I mean, if you're going to take a swipe at him, you could at least come up with something more original than the old "get off your computer, you nerd" chestnut. That may be #2 on the list of blogosphere cliches, after "LOL"...

How about some of the classic ones from the French dudes in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. You know...

I unclog my nose in your direction, son of a window dresser. So, you think you could outclever us posters with your silly, knees-bent, running-about, advancing behavior? I wave my private parts at your auntie, you cheesy-leather, second-hand, electric donkey bottom biter!

No chance, bed-wetting type. I burst my pimples at you and call your diary moderation a silly thing; you tiny brained wiper of other peoples' bottoms!

You don't frighten us, pig dog! Go and boil your bottom, you son of a silly person! I blow my nose at you, so-called "Option Zero," you and Sleepy Freud and all your silly English K-nig-hts...

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 12, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good discussion topic

Too bad it's met with personal snipes at one's judgment and character, from staff no less. But anyhow.

Pro sports are a business like any other. And like most businesses, as time has gone on and the world has become more corporatized than ever, so has the NBA. It's a victim (or benefactor, depending on which side of that argument you're on) of the age we live in.

And sadly, even a cool cat like Azubuike is living and breathing in this era. He'll want his money just like anybody else, and in the context of the current economic climate in the NBA, he'll damn well deserve it.

by ffgolden on Nov 12, 2007 2:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

apologies

I've deleted one of my comments which, in retrospect, was more snipey than productive.

If my tone seems "catty", it's because the gabesgsw posted 3-4 comments across various diaries with rather strong language (like in this diary and the thinly veiled f-bomb) attacking the J-Rich trade citing, largely, Brandan Wright's "4 minutes played". I already had to delete the one with the strongest language (and, before anyone brings up "censorship", left 2 other versions of the comments in other diaries...the ones without the swearing).

This diary, to me, is just another excuse to take another shot at "the trade", and I'm pretty tired of them. It doesn't excuse me, but I hope it explains what I've said.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Nov 12, 2007 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Understood

I conveniently, and even subconsciously, ignored the whole part about the JRich trade. I tend to do this with any posts arguing points that I either do not feel strongly about, or feel so strongly about that holding my tongue is the most civil option.

by ffgolden on Nov 12, 2007 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

In my case, you actually have a sympathetic ear when you lament the some of the evils of the free market and the commodification of everything. You should definitely check out Marx's Das Kapital if you haven't. It's much less strident and preachy than his communist manifesto, and most of his insights are no less relevant and true today than they were 140 years ago.

Then again, I don't think a better basic system than the one we have has yet been devised. As the saying goes: "capitalism is the exploitation of man by his fellow man; communism is the reverse." (Or something like that). The optimist in me thinks we can still use Marxist and otherwise socialist/progressive/environmental principals within this brutal system to make it more humane, decent and fair for everyone. As for the pessimist in me ... well, let's just stick to the optimist for today. ;-)

I totally appreciate that you brought up this topic. One of the great things about this site is the way it sometimes takes breaks from the hoopstalk to question some of the basic assumptions, lies, and injustices of sports -- see the Dave Zirin interviews, for example. Unfortunately, you really are bordering on "Sproul Plaza madman" ranting with a lot of what you say. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you really could stand to think some of your ideas through a bit. Specifically...

What happened to players that played for the game, didn't bitch about a pay check that 99.999% of the world doesn't get and the chance to be a winner at the cost of them making a million less? Those days are gone my friends.

Those days never existed, my friend. You really need to be careful when you wax nostalgic about a mythical era when things were "purer." There have been times when the free market and $$$ have had a much, much more dehumanizing effect on people than they do now. 125 years ago there were 7 and 8 year-old kids working in coal mines in this country and Europe. 150 years ago there was slavery.

Yeah, they used to have this kind of "loyalty" system in baseball. It was called the Reserve Clause http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_clause]. It basically meant the fat-cat owners made out like bandits while the players were treated like cattle, with no say in where they played and and no ability to get paid what they were worth. Unless you own a sports team, there's no way you should yearn for a return to the "good old days" before free agency.

I'm also thinking that I'm in the minority here that a guy like Buike was going to be on our team anyway, regardless if J Rich was going to be around or not. $600,000 is chump change and we would have signed him regardless if we still had to pay J Rich's salary or not, so it's not a "genius move" to get Buike.

No need to play the victim -- I think you actually may be in the majority on the JRich issue. But since the "genius move" line was mine, I'll reiterate the argument. It's really pretty basic:

There are a fixed number of minutes in a game, which means that if JRich were here, Buike's time would be severely curtailed, to the point we're he might well have been released (to Europe, for example).
As of this diary, Azubuike is outperforming JRich by a huge margin, so adding JRich would be a net loss for the team. In other words: if JRich continues playing the way he is right now -- 36% fg, 50% ft, more than twice as many turnovers than assists -- he has negative value. Which is to say, the deal would have been "genius" even if we hadn't gotten Brandan Wright in it. Now I don't think JRich will continue to play the way he is now, but it really is strange timing to be be whining about how much better off we'd be with him.
Brandan Wright, the "gravy" in the deal, has more potential to be a legit NBA star PF than any bigman we've had since Webber. Be a little patient.

Back on the $$$ topic, I totally feel your pain, but if I you really want to gripe about the problems of greed and corporate domination of sports, I think you also need to try to propose some semi-realistic measures to address them. Any ideas?

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 12, 2007 2:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

And

OptionZero's webpin doesn't help the nerd argument much either.

The J-RICH show is on his way out...=(

by dajrichshow on Nov 12, 2007 3:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Then again, BloodSweatnDonuts offered him a much cuddlier alternative (can you repost that, BSD?) and he turned it down, so he's basically asking for any anti-nerd venom he gets...

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 12, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pink Bunny to Option Zero: Love Me . . .

and the world will love you back.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Nov 12, 2007 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It all makes sense now

The reason why OZ hasn't adopted the Pink Bunny is.. because it's green! Or maybe it's the CabarkaBindi, I dunno.

by ffgolden on Nov 12, 2007 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kosta has nothing to do with the JRich trade...

...money, blah, blah, blah, loyalty, blah, blah, bill russell played for free, blah, blah...

by 321 IN n OUT on Nov 12, 2007 4:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I love the Topic

Sorry Gabe but your nostalgic longings are just that, nostalgia. Basketball is and always has been a business, making $$$, that's it.

Yeah its great that Azubuike is playing hard for $480K but he's going to reach for that $48M guaranteed, just like everyone of us would.

The economics haven't changed, the only thing that's changed is the general public's access to the information.

Earlier this year I was reading David Halberstam's book on a year with the TrailBlazers in the late '70s and in it there is insight into the contract squabbles of Maurice Lucas, Bill Walton, Bobby Gross and others. The numbers have changed, but the stories have not. The real difference is that true free agency is available now whereas before there was free agency "compensation" which meant that if you signed someone, the commish may force you to give up "equal" talent.

The good ol' days seem innocent but they were far from it, it was just that only a few knew the real stories.

Nothing better than "The City".

by philsmith75 on Nov 12, 2007 5:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

good topic but....

businesses makes money.. business create basketball for money.. people are happy to watch basketball games

if you wanna watch overpaid players.. watch baseball.. A-rod tryna get 300million for 5 or something years.. damnnn

by rAybOund18 on Nov 12, 2007 6:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

highest level of pure hoops

currently resides in JR HIGH

NBA
College
High School

they all pay, recruit, and "attract" players - all of them, very few HS leagues around this country have not been tainted by recruiting and it's been that way for quite a while now ...

by hardcore on Nov 12, 2007 6:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

this is old news

JRich makes way too much money

Azabuike will probably be making too much money in the near future.

I'm guessing you don't personally know anybody in the NBA so basically your just judging and speculating on their motives. For the most part these guys grew up working day and night on their games living and breathing basketball. I would bet that they dreamed about playing basketball for a living and not really having to do anything else but the thing they love for the rest of their lives. the extra money and cars and stuff is just gravy.

Would you rather the owners be making billions while the players make an average living? The NBA is huge and makes so much money why not reward the players. I guess you could lower the prices a bit for tickets, but w/e.

I agree that i could care less about salary cap and all that stuff i just want to watch them play basketball. I also agree about the hole part of showing up early to warm-ups. I one time got to sit in the lower bowl cuz my friend bought some tickets for my birthday and we were in the gym as soon as they let the fans in and wow i saw baron and JRich so close up and just studied everything they did and it was amazing.

by Proof on Nov 12, 2007 6:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I really wouldn't care

if the NBA minimum salary was $10 million and KG made $1 billion and Ron Artest killed puppies for fun. I love watching basketball and the NBA has the best players.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Nov 12, 2007 7:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm a bit late on this diary, but...

Whether an NBA player loves basketball or not, playing it is his job.

I can't imagine that any of you, in your various professional capacities, would turn down an opportunity increase the amount of money you make. "No thanks. I just love doing what I'm doing."

Well, the scale of the business shouldn't make it any different.

by shadowboy on Nov 14, 2007 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs