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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

RECAP: Warriors 108, Knicks 82- Lot to Like

During the Warriors 0-6 start to this season there's three things I didn't think I'd ever be able to say:

  1. The Warriors held a team to under 85 points and won a game with their defense.
  2. The Warriors have won more games on the road than at home at the Roaracle Arena so far this season.
  3. The Warriors have a 3 game win streak!

Preview/ Open Thread (90+ Comments)

2ea5db8acbf00f5665261e9449138703-getty-76075521nl014_golden_state_.jpg
What Curry's knee is doing to Jack's unmentionables
is exactly what the Warriors did to the Knickerbockers tonight.

Final Boxscore

bc28cd804e8d17ed4d1bd74fd0a1bf35-getty-76075521dd001_gswars_knicks.jpg
You know they say red is the new black.
Makes your Nelliebelly look oh so slim!

DEEEEFENSE Makes All the Difference!
Ignore the Warriors' offensive production from tonight for a second. Putting up over a hundred points nightly is pretty much a given for this squad, but holding an opponent to 82 points on 39.2% shooting from the field and 20.0% from downtown is a miracle. I'll make the bold proclamation that the Warriors will go undefeated this season any time they hold a team to under 85 points.

This was the first game this season where I've seen the Warriors play smart, excellent team defense for the majority of the 48 minutes. Props to Pietrus for his excellent job denying the rock from Zach Randolph despite giving up a ton of pounds (or maybe that's just 1 Ton literally?) and for his thievery (4 steals). Stephen Jackson (3 picks and 2 blocks), Baron Davis (2 steals and 1 block), Kelenna Azubuike (2 steals and 1 big swat), Andris Biedrins (3 picks), Monta Ellis (2 steals and 1 block), and Al Harrington (1 steal) also joined in on the fun. Overall I really liked what I saw from the Dubs tonight in terms of help D, rotations, and triple and double teaming the especially turnover-prone Knicks players (keep reading for more on that).

One question that I've been pondering is whether or not Stack Jack is All NBA Defense material? He'll probably never earn that honor playing on a team that gives up the most points in the association, but the entire hoops nation is really sleeping on how versatile of a defender he's become. He makes life hard for both swingmen and big men. Imagine how good the Warriors would be defensively if they teamed up Jax with his old buddy Ron Artest- and I'm not talking about in terms of defending themselves against those barbarians at Auburn Hills. Tru Warier Ron-Ron to the Dubs, I'm just saying...

Don't forget- 17 steals and 7 blocks for the Warriors tonight!

Twinkie Trio Turnovers
Do Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph, and Jerome James go out to McDonald's after each game? Someone needs to tell these guys this isn't like when they were kids where they could hit up Mickey D's after a weekend morning rec league game. Seriously, how can these guys be so slow and out of shape when they're professional basketball players? Can you imagine how good Curry and Randolph would be if they were just in decent shape? I think that's exactly what Isiah was imagining when he traded for both of them. Problem is he didn't realize that Mickey D's still sells Big Macs for only a few bucks.

Also, this might be the worst passing (very) big man combo in the history of the NBA. Their court vision is literally nonexistent. They're both the type of players you hate playing with on the playground. Once they get the ball everyone on your team knows they ain't getting it back regardless of whether those guys are double, triple, quadruple, or quintuple teamed. Curry and Randolph just have terrible court vision that borders on visual impairment whenever they get the rock in their hands.

At one point Randolph tonight literally pivoted into a double team instead of rotating or dribbling towards the baseline where he could've either driven to the bucket or launched a decent shot (haha, we all know he wasn't going to pass). Seconds later Boom picked Randolph's pocket.

b89eaeb31e214676d05f81195a624ce1-getty-76075521nl003_golden_state_.jpg
Stephon can't bear to watch the Twinkie Two's turnovers anymore.

For the night the Curry-Randolph Twinkie Twosome racked up 2 assists to their 10 turnovers. This isn't to say that the rest of the Knicks were all that good in this department either as they walked away with a 13 : 17 turnover margin- and no, I didn't flip those numbers. Overall the Knicks had an alarming 15 : 27 turnover ratio for the night.

Other Game Notes:

  • Al Harrington and Andris Biedrins had their worst games of the season because their foul troubles. Who would've thought that the Warriors would be able to overcome terrible outings from both TMNHarrington and Biedrins and still blow out a team on the road? It's wonderful when players step up off the bench. The flip side is Al and Andris should be well rested for tomorrow night's game against the Celtics in Boston.

  • The Warriors were ABUSED on the boards tonight by a margin of 18 (34 Warrior rebounds to the Knicks 52). If the Warriors continue to force turnovers like they did tonight and as they did during that 16-5 mad dash for the right to upset the Dallas Mavericks and shock the world last spring, I can live with the poor rebounding disparity. They have to make their free throws too, which they managed to get away with tonight (only 63%).

  • Amazingly the Warriors had as many points in the paint as the much bigger Knicks interior that is gifted at scoring in the low post. Thank you Curry and Randolph for the Charmin' Soft D. You make the DunMurphy Duet proud. By the way check out how those former Warrior defensive stalwarts did tonight against the mediocre Lake-Show at home in Indy.

  • Stephon Marbury has been taking a huge chunk of the blame for the Knicks woes the past 3 seasons, but he returned to his Starbury form tonight and had a pretty solid all-around outing. His penetration to the bucket and finishes were virtually unstoppable.

  • The 3rd quarter of this game featured some pretty poor offense all around, but you have to give the Warriors a ton of credit for holding the Knicks to only 15 points in that period.

  • Monta really seems like an afterthought in Nellie's rotation right now, especially with Jack back. If and when the Warriors ever have a healthy combo of Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Kelenna Azubuike, Matt Barnes, Mickael Pietrus, and Al Harrington, Monta's minutes are going to drastically decrease even further. Bold prediction: Monta's not a Warrior past the February trading deadline.

  • New Warrior DJ Mbenga aka Tacooo got more playing time tonight than Stephane Lasme got in the previous 8 games. The man looks like a bouncer at a club- he's the wrong man to mess with. He botched one layup on a fast break that was simply hilarious (man Nellie needs to make sure DJ's never running the middle on a 4 on 1 fast break ever again), but he did get his first bucket as the first Warrior to ever sport #28.
    a49169ab8603af8cb1046d71fe117180-getty-76075521nl013_golden_state_.jpg
    If D.J. scores at a Warrior home game can we all get free tacos?


  • The only thing louder than "We Want Foy-le!" chants? "Fi-re I-say-ah!" His treatment of Anucha Browne Sanders is indefensible, but my man Modi of Cosellout makes a good case for why Isiah's not as bad as the mainstream media would lead you to believe as the front office head of the Knicks. Definitely check out the "The Book of Isiah - Unraveling The Biggest Myth in Sports"

  • Patrick O'Bryant, Austin Croshere, Marco Belinelli, and DJ Banger all played tonight, but #8 pick Brandan Wright didn't. Does doing the Wright thing mean sending Wright down to the DLeague this season so he can get more game experience? My guess is that's how Nellie sees it, but we'll see. I'm guessing BWright would rather be playing in meaningful games at UNC, rather than meaningless ones in the DLeague. Then again I doubt he regrets bringing in $2.3 million this season. Get that money Brandan- don't let anyone tell you should've stayed in college to work on your game.

 

Boom Dizzle and Action Jackson had great outings on both sides of the ball, but I'm going to have to award tonight's honors to Mickael Pietrus. MP2 had an efficient scoring game needing only 8 shots to reach 16 points and played some stellar defense all night along, aside from one poor rotation that led to an easy score for Zach Randolph on an inbounds play. In MP2's previous 4 seasons as a Warrior I've never seen him play as active, smart, and versatile defense as he did tonight. Big ups to MP. He's a big reason the Dubs won tonight in NY.

aae7236e5c8c90be471a64a2b54f4f2a-getty-76075521jg004_gswars_knicks.jpg
3 Game Win Streak Baby!

Photos by Nick Laham/Getty Images

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woh hoo, recap is finally here.
Been waiting for it, but now to tired to read it all. Guess I will better in the morning.

by Athletix Man on Nov 21, 2007 1:11 AM PST reply actions  

thanks for giving props to MP2
he gets hated on too much around here...
It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Nov 21, 2007 2:52 AM PST reply actions  

Echo's my sentiment
He pulled in a rodman-esque defensive performance on randolf.  Randolf's frustration showed when he started throwin' elbows at pietrus late in the game.
Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Nov 21, 2007 6:28 AM PST up reply actions  

I got caught up at work today
...and didn't get into the game till about the end of the 3rd quarter and catched it on KNBR 1050 for the drive home from work... with the volume up and bass pumpin' out I was shocked at all the Boo's you could hear past the commentaries aimed at the Knicks. I know theres mad drama but it was loud as hell... I loved it! When the chants to Fire Isiah came rolling in my ride during traffic- it was deafening in the car. Truly a great ride home with excellent play by play coverage.

Good to see the dubz on a roll- when I got home I replayed the game as if it just started- the chemistry is strong so far! I'm off for the boston game- open that thread up LOL!

by Tony.psd on Nov 21, 2007 2:52 AM PST reply actions  

YaoButtaMing asked
how popular Warriors are in Latvia

i can give one link about last game -people are watching game and making some comments
http://www.esports.lv/basketbols/forums/20112007----gsw_nyk---_live_2_30_diskusijas?page=0

you have to understand -it is 2:30 AM and here are 235 comments

build a team & destroy the roof

by Lat We N Trash on Nov 21, 2007 3:32 AM PST reply actions  

Anyone see NBATV Daily?
The UN Secretary General was wearing a Warriors hat at the game!!!!

Hey, Jessica Alba is one thing, but when you've got Ban Ki-Moon, and with him, the entire UNited Nations on your side, the other teams don't stand a chance!

Now, lets buy this man some season tickets, so we can blow out every team like the Knicks!!!!

(If one goes to NBA.com and clicks the NBATV: Stern in New York link on ones right, one can see it. I can't screenshot it for some reason. Would be a great webpin if someone could manage it....)

Tony.psd = Da Man

http://adonalobsessed.blogspot.com/

by Zorgon on Nov 21, 2007 5:02 AM PST reply actions  

Photographic evidence...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/photos?photoId=1739406&gameId=271120018

I wonder if he donned the Ws cap before or after the fans started chanting FIRE ISIAH!!!...

Boy, just when you think it can't get any lower for that team.

I don't feel anything but schadenfreude for Isiah -- yeah, phony, racist sexual harassing multi-millionaires aren't high on my sympathy list -- but I do feel pretty bad for Knicks fans. No one deserves a situation like that, let alone fans of one of the most storied franchises in the sport. My best friend, a diehard Knicks fan from birth, has basically given up on them till Dolan and Pond Scum leave town in shame.

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 21, 2007 6:44 AM PST up reply actions  

You are one kind-hearted bastard Sleepy
Feeling sorry for a New York sports fan? I don't think I have it in me.

by ivanbe on Nov 21, 2007 8:58 AM PST up reply actions  

great webpin
i can feel the groove
build a team & destroy the roof

by Lat We N Trash on Nov 21, 2007 9:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Well
all we can hope for them is that it will pass....

Tony.psd = Da Man

http://adonalobsessed.blogspot.com/

by Zorgon on Nov 21, 2007 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

smartest play of the night
Baron drove the lane and looked like he was about to dish it to the big man in the paint... but wait, its DJ banger, he changes his mind mid pass and proceeded to miss the layup.  

I swear to god, I was thinking "Don't pass it".

He may have missed the shot, be he saved banger the embarrasment of looking goofy on another point blank shot.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Nov 21, 2007 6:37 AM PST reply actions  

how dare you!
whatever Banger does he is doing it with grace
build a team & destroy the roof

by Lat We N Trash on Nov 21, 2007 7:01 AM PST up reply actions  

yup
great game, I was there at the Garden last night. I took video as proof of the "Fire Isiah" chant. It was great to see our guys play collectively our most dominating game of the season.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqDBc9SKtak

WELCOME TO THE GUN SHOW!

by tadams1080 on Nov 21, 2007 8:31 AM PST reply actions  

Murphleavy Stat Fun
The combined Murphleavy stats:

13 points, 13 rebounds, 0 blocks, 0 steals.

TM played 24 minutes
MD played 22 minutes

Only 1 of those 13 rebounds belonged to Dunleavy.

by goGSW24 on Nov 21, 2007 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

interesting
When our 3-point shooting has been as atrocious as it was last night, we either lose or scrape out a win, never win by 26 points.  The Knicks are terrible.  

Can't wait til tonight.  Our winning streak vs. a formidable opponent.  

by ViveAirFrance on Nov 21, 2007 9:39 AM PST reply actions  

Our streak might end tonight
Ninja Turtle ain't playin tonight.  Check muriqua's Daily Dubs.
Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Nov 21, 2007 9:57 AM PST up reply actions  

Isiah
Anyone click the Isiah Thomas link? Must have been written by Isiah's mother. Someone should do one of those about Garry St. Jean, because if you pick and choose facts like that you can make anyone look good.

by SpreeForThree on Nov 21, 2007 9:44 AM PST reply actions  

Interesting article
I can't say I agree with everything, but he certainly makes a case for Isiah failures being more media created than actual fact. But it sounds like a lot of excuses for his team's not succeeding. He did draft extremely well in Toronto and perhaps they were set up to do well. We'll never know. As coach in Indiana he developed the young guys there - BMiller, Al, Artest, but never got anywhere with that team.

One argument that I completely disagree with the writer about is the Eddy Curry trade. I think it was horrible giving up a #4 (2006) and #9 (2007) pick for a lazy bum. First, he says Isiah is perhaps the greatest drafting GM in the league and imagine what he could do with some top 10 picks. Then he makes the claim that somehow the Knicks come out at worst, even in this trade. The greatest drafting GM with 2 top 10 picks for Eddy Curry? Uhhhh the Knicks got ripped off. Imagine what Isiah could have done if he had those picks combined with the other first round picks he got in these past years. He could have been making big deals for near All-Star caliber players or trading up. Also, I don't see Eddy Curry play often but to me, his scoring numbers are nice but hollow. Overall, he's a pretty bad player. The guy doesn't rebound well, doesn't block shots, is poor defensively, blind men pass better, plays with no heart, and let's himself get waaaay out of shape. Nobody expects Curry, probably not even himself, to be a great center. To me, it was a monumental mistake. Eddy Curry is about to turn 25, but he's been in the league for 8 years. I just don't see him getting any better.

So I'd say Isiah has made two HUGE mistakes:
1) hiring Larry Brown because he was a bad fit and Isiah made some stupid moves to satisfy Larry Brown 2) The Eddy Curry trade: Let's say the Knicks drafted Ty Thomas (could have been Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, or Patrick O'Bryant haha) and Joakim Noah with the picks they gave up. What would you rather have?
Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph (another player with hollow numbers - Portland is better off without him)
OR
Channing Frye, Ty Thomas/Brandon Roy/Rudy Gay, Joakim Noah

I'll take the 3 young athletic big men in the latter case. Combine those 3 young guys with David Lee and some of their other young guys and you have something to be excited about. Again, monumental mistake by Isiah.

by Fantasy Junkie on Nov 21, 2007 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

The Knicks
Could they have the worst roster composition in the league? I've harped on Sacramento and Indiana Milwaukee for having absolutely no plan before, but DAMN!

Marbury, Crawford, Q-Rich, Jeffries, Robinson, Balkman- these guys are built to run an open, uptempo system.

Randolph and Curry are buit to run a half court game, pound it inside and...um...score or turn it over (passing? wha?)

It seems like Isaiah has built two halves of two separate teams that might be decent or even good. If only he could put one team together.

They desparately need to spin some wing players for shooters to space the floor; at least Orlando got it right by surrounding Foyle...I mean, Howard, with Lewis, Hedo, Reddick, Bogans, and now, Cook.

24 > 23

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Nov 21, 2007 9:50 AM PST reply actions  

Agreed
The Knicks roster is completely flawed. It looks like it was put together without any plan in mind. Those guys just don't know how to play well together. They look like they've never played together before.

by Fantasy Junkie on Nov 21, 2007 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

The Last Isiah Defender Left
Atma Brother One, I don't think that Curry and Zach are necessarily in bad shape as others thing, but they do both tend to be black holes. Now I must say that up until this past game Zach was passing quite a bit. This was the first one where he was routinely taking on triple teams. As a Knick fan, it was infuriating. But also, like you said, the Warriors defense was very impressive. Best I've seen against Randolph and Curry.

With GS it's always "a matchup thing", and you never really know how it will turn out when it comes to the whole "quickness vs. power".  You guys owned Curry and Randolph, it worked against Nowitzski in the playoffs, but not Boozer. GS is the most unpredictable team in the league... which is why I agree with you that you have a shot at Boston tonight...

As for the Knicks, besides the last two games, most of their losses have been extremely close. They got owned in every sense of the word last night.

As for Isiah, I agree with "chemistry critics", but the roster Isiah took over in December 2003 was historically pathetic when looked back in retrospect. 4 years later the only two players of any value are Kurt Thomas and Antonio McDyess. Think about that. There is no equivalent roster in history that has turned it around in less than 5 years. Ever. Thonas' first step was trade garbage for talent. He did that. Now his final step must be to trade a couple of pieces for chemistry.

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference". -- Elie Wiesel

by MODI on Nov 21, 2007 5:01 PM PST reply actions  

Worst Roster Ever
Yea I agree that he started with a historically bad roster. But considering he's had tons of money to play with I would think that his team would post more wins than it did 4 years ago. It's true that he's improved the roster but it wouldn't take a genius to do that. Just because he's improved the team from being historically bad to one that is just really bad doesn't somehow make him a great GM or coach. I think you could have given that roster and infinite payroll to a lot of GM's and they could have done just as well if not better than Isiah. Do you really think that this is the best this Knicks team could be? Nobody could have done a substantially better job than Isiah?

by Fantasy Junkie on Nov 21, 2007 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Last Isiah Defender Left
I think criticism of the Curry trade is well-founded. I said at the time that the jury is still out because we knew little about Ty Thomas and Joakim Noah. Ironically, it is starting to look like BOTH teams would now benefit from reversing that trade (include the Knicks Wilson Chandler who we know little about). Curry will be a far better fit withe the offensively challenged Bulls.

-- Fantasy Junkie: I'm not saying that NOBODY could have done it better. Just few people when the roster is judged against history. I just think that most GMs would not have used the expiring contract method to obtain players. That took some guts. The talent is there, the chemistry is not. A trade or two might fix that. But history shows that its a 5 year turnaround project at least. But I welcome comparisons to similar rosters of Dec 2003.

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference". -- Elie Wiesel

by MODI on Nov 21, 2007 9:03 PM PST reply actions  

Modi on Isiah
I think Modi's key point is that the media has really distorted Isiah's tenure as a Knicks front office man. They've made him out to be the worst GM of all time when that just isn't the case. It's like media has some nasty agenda against him.

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 21, 2007 10:22 PM PST reply actions  

maybe it has to do with that little comment
about bird he said way, way back.  When you diss an icon and media darling, the pen & pad guys tend to bare their fangs.
Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Nov 21, 2007 10:37 PM PST up reply actions  

"The media"
Is not nearly as monolithic as Modi makes them out to be. There's a pretty good diversity of voices and politics among even the mainstream media, and yet none of them, other than Modi, seem to have much affection for Isiah. I actually sympathize with Modi's political agenda, but I would give him a lot more credence if
  1. He at least allowed for the possibility that, media bias notwithstanding, Isiah is a phony, a sexual harasser, and a jerk, on top of being an terrible coach and GM.
  2. He weren't a Knicks fan.
As it is, I take his comments in more or less the same spirit I take the latest statement from Tony Snow. I dunno, I just think if you're going to spend that much time online advocating for the oppressed against the establishment, there are ten zillion "defendants" more worthy than a multi-millionaire sexual-harasser like Isiah.

Then again, I'm sure I'm biased myself, not so much by the media, but just from observing Isiah from the moment he entered the NBA. He was a fabulous player, obviously, but he's always set my "liar/scoundrel/phony" spider sense tingling. Just one example among many: Michael Jordan called him "pond scum" for the way he contrived to "freeze out" MJ in his rookie all-star game.

I basically feel the same way about Isiah as I do about George W. If I knew them personally, or if I were a Knicks fan and Republican, I'm sure I'd find them both perfectly charming, and feel totally indignant about how harsh the media on them. As it is, neither of them has ever done anything but confirm my initial bad impressions.

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 21, 2007 11:15 PM PST up reply actions  

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