Should Ellis be starting?

by EternalWarriorsOptimist on Nov 28, 2007 3:08 PM PST Comment 22 comments

After watching Monta's outstanding game against the 76ers I started thinking about why he's not starting. True, that was his first really dominant performance of the season, but in general his numbers are only slightly down this year:

06-07 vs 07-08
MPG: 34.3 vs 32.7
PPG: 16.5 vs 14.5
FG%: 47.5 vs 44.4
3P%: 27.3 vs 26.3
FT%: 76.3 vs 68.3
RPG: 3.2 vs 2.8
APG: 4.1 vs 2.8
TOs: 2.87 vs 1.58

Last season he started in 53 of the 77 games he played in. Maybe Nellie is trying to motivate him to earn the starting job? Even though his personal stats don't look great, his +/- numbers have been pretty good. He's in 13 of the Warrior's top 17 5-man +/- rotations (from nba.com):

Do you think Monta's play thus far has earned him the starting job?

Poll

Should Ellis be Starting?

Yes - Give me more Ellis to the Rim!

16 votes

No - He's better as a 6th man

48 votes

64 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

0 recs | Comment 22 comments

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Comments

Personally

I like him coming off the bench. He brings an energy to the second unit. Also when he comes in off the bench he is immediately trying to look for his offense instead when he is with the starting unit, he has to fight with other scorers wanting to make an impact early. His minutes are still basically the same.
Keep him on the bench for the year and let him win another award as the 6th man of the year.

by Dubs4Life on Nov 26, 2007 4:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

He is looking more of a PG as the Warriors planned him to be. Watching the Philly game, he seems to know what he was doing in executing game plan. On one occasion, I saw him pointing to Jack where to go. His offense also improved immensely from 32.4% on first five games to 56.9% which includes his 11/20 shooting against Philly.

Off topic: Ellis is the most popular player of the Warriors after Baron according from the Front Office. He is the most requested by the media and second in jersey sale in the past two season and closed the gap from Baron's jersey sale by 30% this season. His And1 endorsement is gaining momentum in sales and soon he'll have a signatured shoes at the counters.

by muritqua on Nov 26, 2007 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

across the board worse

His numbers are down across the board. The magnitude of any particular stat may be small, but the overall pattern is consistent with what my eyes tell me: he's not playing very well.

He's not shooting as well and he's not passing the ball to anyone else. The latter probably has cut down on his turnovers, so that's a plus, but not enough to offset the rest of his game which had been pretty mediocre until Sunday.

by jae on Nov 26, 2007 4:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He's better

off the bench.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Nov 26, 2007 4:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He's better

off the bench.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Nov 26, 2007 4:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ellis

is like a Manu Ginobili. They are good enough to start, but they are more productive coming off the bench.

Ballin

by ballin on Nov 26, 2007 4:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

its too early to go by these stats

remember he started slow maybe because he got injured during the pre-season and missed a lot of practice time.

He's definately great off the bench but shouldn't be a bench player his whole career. I'd say right now we need his scoring off of the bench.

by Proof on Nov 26, 2007 4:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

YES

Brilliant diary idea. And hell yes, start him. Start him yesterday. Geez, I don't get Nellie sometimes.

1984watch.com

by sdbayok on Nov 26, 2007 5:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm in the...

...Ellis off the bench camp. His numbers aren't down so much that I think I can deem his bench work the conclusive cause after ten games or so. Also, even with the gripes I have with some aspects of his game, he has been committing less turnovers.

by Zack Vank on Nov 26, 2007 5:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

uhhh

who are you gonna bench if you start monta?

to be honest before that last game, montas been pretty terrible. we dont really need a scoring 2 who cant play D or rebound. we need a backup PG... hes not that. 2.8 apg is disgusting for a PG

Personally im hoping for more of these performances before the trade deadline to increase his value so we can get a 1st rounder for him. Were not gonna be able to afford him next year and still improve our team so id rather trade him and get a cheapy 1st rounder, and then use his would be money for some FAs.

rookie contracts are awesome :)

by NinerWarrior on Nov 26, 2007 5:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

6th man

I think that the only place for a combo guard in this league is coming off the bench. He is still too limited to start as a SG (no three point range) and PG (turnovers) but playing him thirty minutes off the bench for instant offense/match-up exploitation seems to be a good fit for him until he can learn to run the point or defend 2's and shoot from three.

by olympicmike on Nov 26, 2007 5:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Definitely off the bench

But I do like him getting at least 30+ mpg though. But as much as possible, he shouldn't be matched up against a team that has a dominant starting shooting guard. A backcourt of Baron/Ellis against star guards like Kobe, TMac, Ginobili, VC, etc.

However, in a situation like tonight against the Suns, Monta in the starting lineup might not be too bad of an idea.

by jlagace on Nov 26, 2007 6:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hes young

I don't see any reason why he can't develop a 3 point game or why he couldn't start next year with Baron in Nelson's mix and match system taking turns running the point

of course I just got done watching the kid put on a show :)

by Zig on Nov 26, 2007 9:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

EternalWarriorsOptimist

My man- you're a genius!

Nellie believes in EternalWarriorsOptimist... Nellie believes in EternalWarriorsOptimist... Nellie believes in EternalWarriorsOptimist...

by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 26, 2007 10:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I wish I could say I called it,

but I definitely did not see Ellis putting up back-to-back 31's. When I posted this diary I was seriously undecided about whether he should start or come off the bench. After tonight's performance, I'd say Nellie has to start him as long as he's hot.

Monta > Barbosa
Baron > Nash

At least for tonight... we owned Phoenix! Best game of the year!

by EternalWarriorsOptimist on Nov 27, 2007 12:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

amen

I still think Nash is overrated. It's almost a guaranteed two points when a talented guard takes him one-on-one.

I guess most teams cannot play two scoring machines in the backcourt for 48 minutes or field a team with so many shooters to keep weakside help honest, but the warriors did both of those and destroyed Phoenix when Nash was on the court because of it. Yea, he went for 25 and 13 or something but last time I checked Monta and Baron both scored more.

by BingBluNT on Nov 27, 2007 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

team defense

it was the team defense that did it. Our team defense was ungodly; theirs was not.

We exploited matchups, they didn't.

The Suns normally hide Nash on defense better; on the flip side opponents aren't always able to abuse him with so many weapons (Baron/ellis/azubuike really took turns pwning him).

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Nov 27, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

more specifically

Forcing turnovers and shooting lights out are how we won the game.

by jlagace on Nov 28, 2007 2:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

beyond the scoring

Baron scored more, but it took him a whole lot more shots to do it. 23 points on 14 shots is usually more valuable than 28 on 24, since there's a good chance that those other 10 shots would amount to about 10 points (NBA average is more than 1 point per shot). However, the Warriors had a whole lot more shots, in part because Baron and company forced the normally sure-handed Nash into 8 turnovers. That's like missing 8 shots without any possibility of an offensive rebound.

I don't know if Nash is 'overrated'. He's very good and the Suns aren't much of a team when he doesn't play. But Baron definitely outplayed Nash last night. That was fun to watch.

by jae on Nov 27, 2007 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Suns

Are the perfect matchup for the Warriors since we have the best blend of wing players. Phoenix really screwed up not adding another 6'6 dude that can ball.

As a result, the Suns are actually at a disadvantage playing against our small ball lineup with Ellis at the 2.

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Nov 26, 2007 10:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Game-to-Game

Against some teams, like the Suns, starting Monta sets the tone of what kind of game it will be. But against very good halfcourt teams with large guards and any team with a 6'6" star off-guard, Buike gets the nod instead.

Ellis' passing is improving and he's looking to pass much more often than before. If he keeps that up, and keeps progressing, we won't need a backup point any more. If only Belinelli was able to initiate a little and hit 3's...

by BingBluNT on Nov 26, 2007 11:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs