Baron and Monta shot selection

by kinetic on Nov 4, 2007 12:02 PM PST Comment 19 comments

Baron:

18-50 FG, 2-19 3P

Monta:

15-41 FG, 0-7 3P

Baron and Monta both need to improve their shot selections. I understand that it's early in the year, but both of them are showing poor judgement on shots. I personally don't want to see Monta shooting 3s and I only want to see Baron shoot a 3 if he's wide open and his feet are set in a catch and shoot situation. Through all 3 games Baron has been shooting 3s off the dribble early in the shot clock. Meanwhile, Monta has started picking up the same trait. The fact of the situation is that neither are good 3p shooters. I know a lot of people are clamoring for a deal for Artest (and considering our defense and the prurient appeal of reuniting Jax and his partner in crime, I'm beginning to come around), but he's yet another guy with a propensity to waste possessions on hoisting low percentage shots.

So here's to hoping that this doesn't become a habit.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Defense Defense Defense

Where is all the defense!! The Warriors were second in the league last year in steals, but they aren't making the plays this year. Last night they sunk into the middle daring utah to shoot three's. And that's just what they did!! D Up Warriors!!

by No1warriorsfan on Nov 4, 2007 12:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

actually

the Warriors led the league in steals last season. I thought the interior defense was better holding Booz to a quiet night and even outscoring the Jazz in the key, but the downside of double-teaming Booz, Millsap, & protecting the paint is that you get open shooters. And I thought that was the gameplan; let the 2nd worst 3p shooting team shoot. If they're making every shot, there's just nothing you can do.

by 408dub on Nov 4, 2007 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's...

...a give and take. I think Baron's shooting form is problematic for deep jumpers, since he doesn't get too high off the ground (smililarly, Barnett pointed out the Monta doesn't shoot the deep jumper at the height of his jump, but hangs to long and then hoists it with his arms as he begins to fall). I also have to realize, though, that if not for Baron's three point heroics last season, they may not have made the playoffs. So I have to permit him to try to shoot out of it for a little while.

by Zack Vank on Nov 4, 2007 12:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Baron....

has never been a good 3p shooter, and the reason the Dubs made the playoffs last year was because his number of 3p attempts per game dropped by 1.6/game from the previous year, and by 2.4/game from the year before that! Baron shot selection improved last year, which made him a more efficient player and that's why the Dubs made the playoffs.

I'd rather see the team get better than rest our hopes on Baron making some lucky shots.

by kinetic on Nov 4, 2007 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

broken record?

we need to drive first to open the three's on kickouts, get to the FT line, move the def so there's more OReb opportunities, put the def in foul trouble, get in the bonus ... argh! I know I'm a broken record on this but it's not dependent on SJax returning, or anything out of their control. Just get it done!

in Nelson we trust

by hardcore on Nov 4, 2007 2:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

With

Baron Davis's skill set, strength, and speed, he can practically drive by anyone in the league and score or at least get free throws. He could also draw the double team and kick out to the open man. However he seems to waste all this talent by simply shooting fadeaway 3s with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. So like JB said, we need to DRIVE.

The J-RICH show is on his way out...=(

by dajrichshow on Nov 4, 2007 3:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, but.....

Who is going to tell Baron not to take as many "stupid" threes let alone convince him to do it. Even when we were running good last year, I felt Baron pulled the trigger too fast and too often. And the same with Monta.

I have to believe Baron is trying everything to get himself and the team going, but it just isn't working very well (so far).

We know as goes Baron, so go the Warriors, unless Jax is going to help with that role when he returns. I just don't see anyone making Baron change his game--even Nellie, who seems to let Baron do whatever Baron believes he needs to do to lead the team.

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Nov 4, 2007 5:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

true...

Nellie does tend to let his guys make their own choices. Hopefully whatever got Baron to back off on the 3s last year will begin working again.

by kinetic on Nov 4, 2007 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

we can all come up with other reasons we're losing

but for real, tell Monta that if he takes a 3, he sits. it's that simple. he CAN NOT make a 3, and for the life of me i can't figure out why he's the only one who doesn't seem to know it. every time he catches the ball outside the 3 pt line i start scanning the court for rebounders.

and it's not as simple as giving up a possession. the momentum seems to swing every time. missed 3's tend to be long rebounds that lead to transition points. each time Baron or Monta chuck one up we seem to be seeing a 4-5 point swing.

by 321 IN n OUT on Nov 5, 2007 8:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Monta's 3

As a rookie, Monta hit 34% of his 3's (28 of 82--enough of a sample to suggest it was meaningful). His shot looked good, not forced and like it should be something that he could build on. 34% is not great, but it's not terrible by any stretch. It's good enough that a 34% shooter should be allowed to take it from time to time. I have no idea what happened to him since. He hasn't been as effective.

It is unlikely that Nelson will ever issue a "take that shot and you sit" ultimatum to Monta (or likely anyone else who stands less than 6-10). I doubt very much Nellie wants anyone to believe that he's got a guard whom you can play off of to stop the drive, not ever caring about his long shot.

It also seems like blaming all that much on Monta's threes this year is blowing something way out of proportion. He's taken 2, 3 and 2 attempts in the 3 games. On average, the average NBA player would only have made 2 or 3 of those shots. The Warriors have been crushed twice this year. An extra made 3 a game or less wasn't going to be the difference. To hear calls that if he takes the shot, he sits makes it sound like he's jacking up 10 a game.

by jae on Nov 5, 2007 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

take it however you like, if you can't make 'em,

don't shoot 'em. no one's acting like his missed 3's cost us the games, but as i pointed out, they can be big momentum shifters when taken at the wrong times and/or ending in transition results at the other end.
to ignore the timing of the shots, reduce everything to the box score, and believe that a comparison to the "average NBA player" suffices, if that's good with you, fair enough.
i'm not looking for Monta to be an "average NBA player," and i'm not watching the game giving the same credence to a 3-pointer off the opening tip that ends up an offensive rebound and put-back, as i am to one late in the game when we're in the process of grabbing some momentum (and the guy's already 0-5), that gets pulled down by the other team, and thrown ahead for a transition basket.

by 321 IN n OUT on Nov 7, 2007 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Run and Gun

What I don't understand is why the Dubs can't use their speed and size to get open shots. The Run and Gun offense is based on the idea that you take the first OPEN shot. It doesn't mean that you lob up whatever feels right especially since we are never in position to gobble up boards. I wish Nellie would actually coach and get these guys to play heads-up basketball. We will have no chance if we are never going to have the piece of mind to step up and convert on the mid-range jumper

Duke grad student missing the Bay but holding it down for the Dubs from afar.

by eastbayglory on Nov 5, 2007 8:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Baron says

"Ultimately, we're going to have to do a better job of attacking the basket as a team early in the season. Not shoot as many outside shots," Davis said. "I'll take the blame for that one. I could have played better, shot the ball better, but it's a long season. I'll make up for it."

The good news is the players know what is wrong

in Nelson we trust

by hardcore on Nov 5, 2007 5:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

You know that quote is pretty reassuring

As Baron goes, so does the team. They just might win the next game, fellas.

THIS IS OOOAKLAND!!!

by Tim N Chris Burger on Nov 5, 2007 7:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm so glad...

I read that. I've been sitting here thinking that Baron thought he needed to shoot over 6 3s a game for his team to win.

by kinetic on Nov 6, 2007 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

would've been

had the Dubz adapted and drove more vs Cavs

... they didn't, he didn't

by hardcore on Nov 7, 2007 7:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be completely different

if the shots taken were going in. No one would be complaining about the shot selection, but praising it instead. Yes, shot selection does have an impact on everything, but we all know that W's live and die by the three/jumper and when it's not dropping at a consistent rate, then they are going to suffer. If you go back to last year, there were tons of ill-advised shots that dropped and no one even mentioned reconsidering players shot selection. Of course we should look more towards driving the ball down the lane, which we were very successful at last year, but it seems as if teams are gearing towards that by clogging the middle with their bigs and in turn making our shooters knock down a higher percentage of the jump shots.

There's a lot more to it than shot selection that we need to work on, and returning to last years defense is one of them. If that comes back to form, hopefully getting stops and forcing turnovers will fuel our offense.

by lyricalgenius on Nov 6, 2007 12:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

yeah maybe...

for a few games. If their shots were falling nobody would care, but statistically speaking, those shots are just going to clang off the rim a high percentage of the time (my guess is probably around 80% for these guys). And over the course of the year that's going to add up and result in a few losses.

Of course, Jax is the silver bullet that's going to get everything back on track. The defense is the glaring problem with this team. But poor shot selection that should be easily fixed.

by kinetic on Nov 6, 2007 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

shot selection is HUGE

simply the most important part of the game

whether the defense collapses or not, the offense simply HAS to attack the paint either through a post or drive to get fouled, put the opponent in foul trouble, open kick-outs for 3pt, increase OReb opportunities, etc.

it all stems from shot selection, all of it

by hardcore on Nov 7, 2007 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs