Q&A: Dave Zirin (Part 1 of 2)
Our guest for this Q&A is truly in a golden state of mind. I'm talking about none other than progressive sportswriter Dave Zirin who was awarded Press Action's Sportswriter of the Year in 2005 and 2006. Dave is the author of 3 books that you should definitely check out (click on each book image to find out more):
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Here's a clip of Dave and Chuck D telling you why you need to Believe the Hype about Welcome to the Terrordome:
Dave breaks down the significance behind the title of his book "What's My Name, Fool!":
I want to highly recommend Dave's books, particularly the chapter from Welcome to the Terrordome titled "The NBA and the Two Souls of Hip-Hop". It's a must read for hoops junkies whose consciousness extends beyond the box score.
You can find out more about Dave over at his bio on his site Edge of Sports, but here's a snippet:
Robert Lipsyte says he is "the best young sportswriter in the United States." He is both a columnist for SLAM Magazine, a regular contributor to the Nation Magazine, and a regular op-ed writer for the Los Angeles Times. He also has an online column on Sports Illustrated’s website, si.com.
Zirin has brought his blend of sports and politics to multiple television programs including ESPN's Outside the Lines, ESPN Classic, the BBC's Extratime, CNBC's The Big Idea with Donny Deutsch (debating steroids with Jose Canseco and John Rocker), C-SPAN's BookTV, the WNBC Morning News in New York City; and Democracy Now with Amy Goodman.
He has also been on numerous national radio programs including National Public Radio's Talk of the Nation; Air America and XM Radio's On the Real' with Chuck D and Gia'na Garel; The Laura Flanders Show; Radio Nation with Marc Cooper; ESPN radio; Stars and Stripes Radio; WOL's The Joe Madison Show; Pacifica's Hard Knock Radio, and many others.
He is also the Thursday morning sports voice on WBAI's award winning "Wake Up Call."
Zirin is also working on "A People's History of Sports in the United States," part of Howard Zinn's People's History series for the New Press. In addition he just signed to do a book with Scribner (Simon & Schuster.)
Zirin is the author of a children's book called "My Name is Erica Montoya de la Cruz" (RC Owen).
He is working on a sports documentary with Barbara Kopple's Cabin Creek films on sports and social movements in the United States.
Zirin's writing has also appeared in New York Newsday, the Baltimore Sun, The Dallas/Ft. Worth Star-Telegram, the Houston Chronicle, CBSNEWS.com, The Pittsburgh Courier, The Source, and numerous other publications.
An interview you don't want to miss after the jump!
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Golden State of Mind: In your book you pointed out that David Stern hired Matthew Dowd, the Personal Relations brain behind the Bush administration to give the league more "red-state appeal." This seems like a curious hire given the league's historically strong ties with the hip-hop community, so much so that a little over a year ago in an interview with Jeff Chang for the PBS POV Border Talk special, ad director John Jay pronounced hoops as the 5th pillar of Hip Hop. Is this hire indicative that something else is at stake here for the NBA besides dollars and cents? Could you elaborate on why you thought Stern made this move and how race and politics plays out in the economy of the NBA? Also if Stern, Dowd, and the league are in true pursuit of corporate dollars and red-state appeal instead of the green coming in from the hip-hop crowd, what additional policy decisions do you foresee in the NBA?
Dave Zirin: No question whatsoever, hiring Dowd was Stern's play at broadening the league's appeal. Ticket prices have made entry to games by "hip hop fans" prohibitive. Ask your friends – your biggest NBA heads – how many games they have actually attended in person last year, and the answer is upsetting. This is the league giving the back of its hand to its most loyal fans. But it is also about Stern's misreading of the political moment. Stern is a Democrat and I would guess if you asked him he would describe himself as politically liberal, but this whole country went crazy after 9/11 that this was "red state America" and "Bush country" dominated by "values voters." By implication, Stern is expressing corporate concern that "values voters" don't want to see a majority black league dominated by tattooed, hip hop listening players. Many of the heavy handed policy questions the league has taken up in recent years is linked to this. Which leads to your next question….
Golden State of Mind: Let's say the melee in suburban Auburn Hills (not urban Detroit which unfairly got a bad rap for the incident) never happened. Do you think we'd still see the NBA impose a dress code, age limit, and zero tolerance for debating calls with the referees. Was that night really that pivotal in its effect on the NBA landscape or was its impact overblown? Let's say Allen Iverson never played in the league. Would Commisioner David Stern and the rest of the league offices think the league needed those rules, particularly the dress code?
Dave Zirin: This is a fascinating question. It's like "what if Hitler instead of attacking the USSR had seized the oil fields of the Middle East", what if Lincoln had decided to make it a Blockbuster night." On the one hand, there is no way I think we get "Law and Order NBA" if the "malice in the palace" doesn't happen. On the other hand, if it wasn't Auburn Hills, it would have been something else and somewhere else. This hip hop vs. corporate culture dynamic was going to go down somewhere: too many divisions, too much cultural dissonance, too much racism and disrespect at games from loud mouth fans in the executive seats who think high ticket prices gives them to right to talk whatever smack they want. In retrospect, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. But the larger point, is that the dress code, banning hot spots on the road, zero tolerance talking to refs, banning ipods on the layup line…. All this was going to go down – or was already in the works. Auburn Hills gave Stern the opportunity to ram it all through. (BTW: I agree with the IPOD rule. That's just weak. Take off the damn ipod. That's for everyone, not just the NBA players among us.)
Golden State of Mind: With regards to the commonly held perception that the league is suffering a decline in NBA spectatorship (ticket sales and Nielsen ratings), some sports analysts and cultural critics blame hip-hop culture and representation in the league for the recent lull. But is there any statistical or quantifiable evidence that hip-hop culture is responsible these downward trends in the NBA brand? Is hip-hop culture implicated in the development of the NBA brand? If yes, how so?
Dave Zirin: Of course there is no evidence hip hop has anything to do with declining ratings. Any declining ratings begins and ends with the product: too many teams take tank-quilizers at the end of the year, too many coaches are scared for their jobs and call for an uninspired brand of ball, too many refs call fouls whenever superstars are breathed upon, and too many players are worried about showing personality and becoming media targets (not to shock you, but I've met a bunch of players funnier and more interesting than Arenas. The difference is that he has the guts to let his freak flag fly.) Look at Golden State. Their series against Dallas did great in attendance and ratings. This is the team of Steven Jack. Why? Because they were entertaining as shit. Hell, I almost bought one of those City shirts on line out of respect. And it was crazy the way Stephen Jackson was reborn in that series by the announcers from being a thug to having heart and being a champion. But he's just himself: good, bad, and ugly like the rest of us. Listening to the announcers was a hell of an object lesson how perception is shaped.
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You've read some of Dave's thoughts as well as my and DJ Fuzzy Logic's embedded in the question set that you can probably infer, but we'd love to hear from you all as well. What are your thoughts with regards to the NBA's many attempts at "red-state appeal", the recent rule changes mentioned above, and hip-hop culture's role on the NBA's declining ratings?
Make sure to check out Part II of our interview with Dave.
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7 comments
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excellent read
by Nooob on Nov 5, 2007 9:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
great get
by jakarta on Nov 5, 2007 11:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
thanks
Big ups for putting this together. There really needs to be something done with the NBA. There isn't a more truer thing then Mr. Zirin pointing out how many of the 'hip hop headz' truly end up in the seats (and I would then ask how many of them end up in the 'lower bowls' of their respective home arena).
I'm sure that you and the readers have noticed before or this first week of the young season the amount of empty seats, whether on TV (that Det vs Miami game had NO ONE in the lower bowl) or in person.
This just is a slap in the face from the NBA that ppl that really want to get to the games on a regular basis or are forced to only be able sit in the "end zones" and up in the nosebleeds.
Even though GSOM showed us that this can be the place to be, that just isn't the norm and it seems like the game is being played in another state!
I anxiously look forward to reading your second installment and I also have to wonder if Mr. Zirin has any ideas on what he'd do if he were to be in Stern's shoes. What are his thoughts on what he would do to reach out to the existing fans while still creating a greater fan base for the NBA?
by jamdaddy25 on Nov 5, 2007 1:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jamming
Thanks for the support man. DJ Fuzzy Logic and I put a ton of time into this. I'm glad you're enjoying this interview.
I'm sure that you and the readers have noticed before or this first week of the young season the amount of empty seats, whether on TV (that Det vs Miami game had NO ONE in the lower bowl) or in person.
This just is a slap in the face from the NBA that ppl that really want to get to the games on a regular basis or are forced to only be able sit in the "end zones" and up in the nosebleeds.
Even though GSOM showed us that this can be the place to be, that just isn't the norm and it seems like the game is being played in another state!
Mos def. I think back to grade school, middle school and high school. All the kids who were really into class (some exceptions of course) all sat in the front row and paid so much attention, never taking their eyes off the teacher and the blackboard. The NBA is the exact opposite. So many of the best and most enthusiastic stands are up in the nosebleeds. Like you said GSoM Night was a blast, but the NBA has a serious problem when 900 of its best and most hyped fans don't have anything close to the best view in the house. I don't want to say that GSoM Night wasn't FAN tastic, but my point is that there's something morally and socially wrong when none of us will most likely ever sit courtside at a game in our lifetimes.
But I have to look at the positive. One of our main goals with GSoM was to raise enough money to buy season tickets for floor seats at the arena and share them with our community. Haha, well the Warriors got a little more popular in the past few months and I doubt we'll ever make enough money to purchase floor seats, but we did make enough for season tickets in the lowerbowl. We've got some ideas that we've been tossing around on ways to hook up people in the GSoM community with some great tickets. I fully agree with Dave Zirin though- it's just said if you think about how many hoops junkies have never even sat in the lowerbowl or been to a basketball game.
That's a great question that I'll try to pass onto Dave next time. If I were Stern though I'd go back to that marketing formula of the 90's that sucked me and many of my friends into the NBA. I thought they did an excellent job marketing and reaching to kids- they made the game so much fun. I just don't see that anymore- maybe it's ESPN/ ABC's stale coverage or the monotone NBA Cares commercials. NBA players do a lot of great work, but the NBA makes it out to be so boring. The Stay in School campaign honestly just made staying in school seem fun.
Also the NBA really embraced its Hip Hop connections back then. The Nike ads and kicks were just so on point too. It was the golden age of NBA culture. I always thought it was cool how the NBA players dressed like me when I was a kid, now with the rule changes they're dressing like "old people" who aren't as cool. Stern has since criminalized Hip Hop clothing including all the retro and throwback jerseys which I thought were so much fun and a tribute to past generations. It's bizarre why the league would have that rule. It was a style that was all about showing respect to elders and the league disrespected that fashion trend. I have no idea why. When I was a kid I used to think the NBA players dressed so well- not the NFL or baseball players.
I think it was Stephen Jackson (correct me if I'm wrong) who questioned all these recent rule changes saying something to the effect of: appealing to the corporate fans is fine, but that's just not who we are. Kids and the Hip Hop crowd are the ones who follow us.
And I think that's very true. Stern and the league offices should ask Nickelodeon, Jay-Z, Beyonce, and many others to show them their financials. They'll be pleasantly surprised.
True hoops junkies and old skoolers who loved watching Magic, Oscar Robertson, Bird, Kareem, etc will always love the game. They'll always be there and unless the league does something incredibly bone-headed they never will lose them. There's a ton of money to be made by more aggressively reaching out to that crowd and older generation.
Similarly young folk are easy to attract to the NBA because of the speed of the game, the mascots, the jerseys, the fact that they can all play basketball regardless of socioeconomic status (unlike the expensive football and baseball) or athletic ability and have a great time out.
The third group I think Stern should work hard at winning back credibility with is the Hip Hop community. There's just something about hoops and Hip Hop- it's a symbiotic cultural relationship. If the NBA loses that they're toast. Hip Hop is a huge money generator and I have no idea why the league would do anything to risk those dollars.
So to sum it up, I'd cater to the hoops junkies (more stats, more analysis, improving the 24-7 NBATV even more), the kids (more fun programs, activities, promote the fact that this is a young league with players not too much older than the kids, etc), and the hip hop crowd (kill the silly dress code telling adults how to dress and criminalizing the style of its biggest fanbase, more Hip Hop and R&B acts at the games, and get ABC/ ESPN to change their vanilla coverage or go back to NBC). Just a few thoughts.
by Atma Brother ONE on Nov 5, 2007 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Bro...
by BeLEGENDelliAllDay on Nov 5, 2007 2:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great Stuff
Again, great questions, great answers, keep up the good work.
.
by olympicmike on Nov 5, 2007 4:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Props to DJFL and Atma Bro
I'm a big Zirin fan since I read his piece in the Nation on the Rockies, aka "God's team." A must-read for anyone who bought into the whole "America's darlings" narrative, or who felt bad when they got absolutely waxed by my blue-state Red Sox...
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060619/zirin
by Sleepy Freud on Nov 5, 2007 7:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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