Joakim Noah's two game line ... a seasonal watch vs Brandan Wright

by kirkkazas on Nov 9, 2007 12:35 AM PST

11/8/07 Bulls vs. Pistons a win.
Noah's line: 12 minutes, 5 rebs, 4 assists, 1 steal, 2 pts

11/6/07 Bulls vs. Clips a loss.
Noah's line: 19 minutes, 4 rebs, 3 blocks, 1 steal, 2 pts

11/6/07 Warriors vs. Cavs, a loss.
Brandan Wright's line: 4 minutes, 1 rebound

It's still early in the season but Joakim Noah looks NBA ready as far as defense and rebounding. He can rebound and block shots. He missed a couple layups in the first game and fans thought "he wasn't exactly good" afterwards. Word in the Chicago Bulls blog is that Coach Skiles told Noah to shut up after his first game interview and that Noah has not really learned the plays. Noah says there's no problem with Coach and he'll "shut up if Coach wants that."

Brandan Wright looks like a true athlete. But the guy is skinnier than Joe Smith ever was. The Warriors don't really need BWs game now. They need more defense and rebounding and that's Noah's game.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

So, um

We're making conclusions based on 35 total minutes played -- a whopping 4 by BWright?

Your numbers are rather cherry-picked -- you list only Noah's assists in one game and his blocks in another, and no fg or ft #s. You could also look at it like this:

Noah, 4 games, 4 points total.

I do think Noah would probably have been a better pick in the immediate term, but I'm much more excited about Wright's long-term upside.

Meanwhile, this is at least the third diary on this topic. Couldn't we wait a month or so, and let them get a bit more NBA burn, before the next one?

by Sleepy Freud on Nov 8, 2007 9:19 PM PST reply actions

yeah, you're right .

okay, I'll wait a month or so for the next update. I was just trying to point out that Noah looks very active in the fields the Warriors are really lacking: defense and any kind of rebounding. I think Noah is a pretty good free throw shooter by the way.

I hope Brandan becomes a beast like Stoudamire but how long do we have to wait? The Nellie B Davis team is a very small window of opportunity given Nellie's age and Baron's health issues.

Peace,
Kirk

Go Warriors!

by kirkkazas on Nov 8, 2007 9:25 PM PST up reply actions

surprisingly

noah makes those free throws wit his crazy release lol

by J2daZ on Nov 8, 2007 9:45 PM PST up reply actions

asdf

And with Noah you have a ceiling of somewhere around probably what Verejao is and with Wright you get a celing of somewhere around Chris Bosh. I think even at Wrights worst case scenario he would still be about the same as Noah. He is a good rebounder and he is really active but I don't think someone with his skill set warrants the number 8 pick in the draft. A lot of good people went after he was picked, I would argue that he went way too high for his skill set/potential, he probably deserved to go in the later 1st round.

Lets be honest too, if he wouldn't have played at Florida and played at a school that wasn't a power house, would any of us even know who this guy is? My guess is probably not, he was a product of the Florida basketball system.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Nov 9, 2007 9:27 AM PST up reply actions

you realize

That Brandan Wright played at an even more prestigious and also highly successful program right...?

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Nov 9, 2007 9:29 AM PST up reply actions

asdf

I sure do, but with what Noah brings to the table would anyone have even noticed him at a less prestigious school? What really stands out about Noah other than the fact that he is active and has hair that resembles Side Show Bob?

by J Rich 4 MVP on Nov 9, 2007 9:42 AM PST up reply actions

how bout

A superb rates of rebounding, steals, blocks while fouling little.

He's also a pretty good ball handler and passer.

I also assert that his hair would have made him a national story even if he had played at South Tulsa University of International State Day School.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Nov 9, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions

asdf

I just don't think his skill set/potential really would have warranted the 8th pick in the draft. Do you see him really improving to another level in this league or do you think that what you see is basically what you're always going to get?

Also, if we were to have drafted him we would have never played AB and him at the same time seeing as how they have little offensive ability. We would have virtually never seen them together which still would only leave us with one active rebounder, which still wouldn't help us very much, if at all.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Nov 9, 2007 10:05 AM PST up reply actions

asdf

I gotta run, but would def. like to finish this conversation sometime OZ.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Nov 9, 2007 10:06 AM PST up reply actions

the 8th pick

There's some misconceptions that have been plaguing draft analysis, and I'm not really comfortable with them.

Just because a player does not become a superstar does not mean he's a failed draft pick. Quality role players matter- if you can draft them, it means you have them for cheap. It's impossible to field a team with all superstars because they are rare, expensive, and theres a salary cap.
Draft position. After the top 3, maybe top 5 picks, it's super, SUPER hard to find the game changing types with any regularity. Sure there are some, but I'm quite certain history bears out that draft quality decreases with later picks, and it drops off steeply after #1-3, maybe #1-5. So saying Noah "isn't worth" the 8th pick is hardly accurate.
True bigs are hard to find, skilled true bigs are ever harder to find. Noah has skills (shotblocking, rebounding, steals, passing, not fouling), ..just because scoring isn't one of them does not make him worthless.
Production now versus production later. Noah's likely gonna be better for the first 2 maybe 3 years than Wright and probably Yi and maybe even Conley (if he's stuck 3rd string). If your team doesn't need projects, then Noah moves up your draft chart. Winning games, remember, should always be the goal; if you've already taken the rebuilding steps then the next step is to fill out the roster, drafting a big that will board for you now, defend for you now, and pass for you now is smart. That way you don't have to pay a guy like Erick Dampier $60M to be your role playing part-time center...you've just drafted one for the rookie scale.
This was also a remarkably deep draft, in most years a guy with his resume (stats + team success + national profile) would probably go top 5. Most years you wouldn't find 7 guys better than him.

Basically, I'm just asking for context. Instead of looking at what others COULD do later and what Noah CAN'T do now...look at what he'll do for you immediately, which, it seems, is quite a bit.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Nov 9, 2007 11:00 AM PST up reply actions

asdf

I can completely agree with you that if your lottery draft pick doesn't become an all star it doesn't mean it's a failed pick, quality role players in this league are hard to find so if they're available they should be taken. However, I don't exactly think a role player is what the Warriors need, we have a ton of them in Harrington, Jack, Buike, Ellis, AB and potentially in Marco. They'll probably never become super stars but they are nice pieces that most teams would love to have on their team. I really don't think Noah would have much of an impact on this season if he played for the Dubs.
I can agree with you here again, in most drafts there is a huge decrease in talent after the first 5 picks but last years draft I would have to disagree, it was completely stacked, there was talent up and down the first round. Two players that come to mind are Al Thornton and Julian Wright, would have helped us more than Noah would have.
I'm completely aware that there's more to basketball then scoring. Just because you can score doesn't mean you're a good player and just because you can't score doesn't mean you're a bad player. I've never seen anything from Noah to make me think he's going to be better than he is right now.
I also agree with you that I think Noah will be more productive in the short term, it's going to take Wright a couple years to develop. Winning games NOW should have been our priority but that went out the window when we traded J Rich, with that move I think we were hoping to win now but making the move to win later, which was a mistake because so far it looks like it blew up the team chemistry we had. When we had BD, J Rich, Jack, Al and AB starting last year we were hard to stop and I'd go as far as saying that was one of the best line ups in the NBA when they got time to play together. When the Warriors decided to bring in more young, cheap talent for a proven vet, they kinda said they were rebuilding.
It is a deep draft as I said before but I'm still going to take the stance that Wright over Noah was the right choice. It's going to be tough to make the playoffs this year and I'm not sure Noah would have done anything to change that, Wright is a project but at least it gives us a chance to get a great player for the future because it sure looks like we aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Nov 9, 2007 1:16 PM PST up reply actions

The object of the 1st Round

I think it is to find the player who will have the best career available. With the present rookie contracts - reasonable terms and four to five year lengths - the team will know well within that span whether they have chosen the best player available.

If Wright is the better player than Noah, which I think he is, the Warriors should know within a couple of seasons.

by San Francisco Slim on Nov 9, 2007 2:57 PM PST up reply actions

Noah and the POB

If the POB could become a lottery pick out of Bradley after two seasons where he averaged 13 points and 8 rebounds on 55% shooting, Noah is a lottery pick with 12 points and 9 boards on 61% shooting if he played somewhere other than Florida.

by jae on Nov 9, 2007 11:56 AM PST up reply actions

asdf

POB became a lottery pick because of the run Bradley made in the NCAA tourney and because of his showing during the NCAA's. It's why Tyrus Thomas was also so hyped up because of LSU's run to the final four and the part he played in it.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Nov 9, 2007 12:45 PM PST up reply actions

I'd prefer...

Wright over Noah any day. Yeah, things kinda suck now, but it will pay off in the long-term.

And there was a rumor that the Dubs were supposed to tell the bobcats who they wanted to get with the eighth pick, but didn't call in time so the bobcats ended up going with the guy they thought was the best. Don't know if that was ever really debunked or not.

by kinetic on Nov 8, 2007 10:54 PM PST reply actions

BWright hasn't gotten enough time

to make any meaningful comparison. skillswise, noah has shown everything he has. wright has shown only that he can get muscled out of shot by lebron which we knew already.

i see your point: the dubs need defense and rebounding, but in no bizarro world would noah have gotten that many minutes in nellie's scheme. no potential for scoring. otherwise lasme would see some minutes and grab some boards and maybe block a couple of shots.

my premature opinion: noah wouldn't change our record.

by CaptainJack on Nov 9, 2007 12:20 AM PST reply actions

Agreed

Afterall he is only playing 12 minutes a night in Chicago, and they had an opening at PF. I would disagree with the diaryist, Noah seems pretty "rookieish" when it comes to D. As far as rebounding, running the floor, passing and energy, he does that well. But his PER is currently at 12.5, he's having problems on D. He's more of a rookie than a short term fix.

by San Francisco Slim on Nov 9, 2007 2:48 PM PST up reply actions