Portland Loss

by psclavos on Dec 12, 2007 9:29 PM PST Comment 43 comments

This loss is courtesy of Don Nelson. I really don't care that we were on a back end of a back to back because so were they. Nelson has to play the best guys he can put out there, regardless of the future. Nelson had some of the worst lineups in that game that i have seen all season. THud and Croshere in at the same time? Im sorry, but Hudson is the worst. He takes terrible shots and doesn't make good decisions. He came in this game thinking he had to replace monta and his production. terrible attitude. Let the stars of the team pick up the slack.

Belinelli coming in at the most inopportune time in the game? This guy has shot almost 20 percent the whole season, has been threatened with the D-League and Nelson puts him mid in the 4th when the game was still in reach? terrible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our 4th quarter guys, FOR EVERY GAME, should be baron, kelenna, monta, stack and harrington. Maybe biendris in there instead for some match up. That is by far our strongest lineup and should be on the floor every fourth.

That zone was horrendous too. Never have, never am, and never will be a fan of it. Didn't work when we went 0-6 and it sure isn't going to start working now.

Sorry if this read a little scattered, but this loss fired me up because I saw way too much bad heading into the Lakers game. We better figure it out because Phil Jackson doesn't play into Nellie's games. Let's hope for a little better offensive production and coaching Friday night.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Cha... RAWR!

T-Hud on the prowl!

You win some... you lose some dude...

by Tony.psd on Dec 12, 2007 9:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

u watched the game right?

if u did, u would have seen that hudson played alright, belinelli played well, croshere played well, and jackson and harrington were complete garbage. u don't put players on the floor for what they did in the past, u put players on the floor who are playing well. i'd also argue that any lineup without biedrins cannot be taken seriously as the warriors strongest lineup

by AJC3317 on Dec 12, 2007 9:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I agree with AJC3317

Jackson and Harrington had terrible games, why should they play in the fourth if they are playing like garbage? Belinelli and Croshere were fine and Hudson wasn't bad either. I also thought the officials calls didn't help us tonight and it was tough without Monta's energy on the end of a back-to-back.

by zaki on Dec 12, 2007 9:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know about that...

so belinelli hitting a three and doing absolutely nothing else is playing well? its sad that that is considered a good night for him now

and hudson played well for a little of the first half. we are -3.2 for the year with him on the floor. he's not good.

harrington u expect nights like this from him but he does a lot of other good too

and jax just couldn't get into a rhythm and i would for sure have him on the floor cold than thud

i'm sorry, but not everything about the dubs are positive

by psclavos on Dec 12, 2007 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

no

belinelli also played well on defense which has been his biggest problem so far. no one's arguing that hudson is a good player, but for one game he played fine. and can u name something that harrington and jackson did well tonight? if they aren't playing well, they shouldn't be on the floor

by AJC3317 on Dec 12, 2007 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I watched the game yea...

But I ain't as critical... I watch it... said damn... that sucks... oh well, onto Friday... sorry but I'm a casual viewer.

by Tony.psd on Dec 12, 2007 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that's why

my post wasn't directed at u

by AJC3317 on Dec 12, 2007 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yea

I know

by Tony.psd on Dec 12, 2007 10:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, i Know

Haha, i'm in the middle of finals and just got done with one a couple of hours ago so coming home to this was one of the last things I wanted...

I'll be at the Lakers game. Anyone else goin?

by psclavos on Dec 12, 2007 9:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

ummm

really if you havent noticed
he had no one that could score for him
he was messing around with his line up
and that keeped us close to portland
stephen and harrington was like ------------

by 8monta on Dec 12, 2007 9:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

and

this is a team game
so dont put all the blame on nelson
portland also just got off a big win

by 8monta on Dec 12, 2007 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

so did we

granted it was without timmy, but a huge one nonetheless

by psclavos on Dec 12, 2007 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I watched in and out.

But I saw T-Hud still struggle on offense, but at least he made up for it on a couple of good plays on defense. He's not the facilitator we want him to be. He probably won't be.

Belinelli didn't do anything really to hurt the team at that point. He played so-so defense, but not the worst defense. He made a three, which was good for his confidence and even had a steal and an assist.

What doomed us was probably the worst defensive effort of the year. The thing that bugs me about scattering defenses is that to get steals and deflection the warriors have to play defense with their hands. The dubs rarely cut their men off and get in good defensive position. If they get beat, they either wrap them up and commit the foul or let them go buy in an attempt to swipe at the ball (and/or picking up a foul in the process). Now at times that scatter and hustle type defense works wonders. Tonight however they were just getting abused by the guard play of Portland. GSW was in the penalty for most of the second half! Jax, MP, Baron, Kelenna were all guilty of bad defense tonight.

They just didn't have the energy tonight which is critical.

I just wanted to see Brandan and Marco honestly.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 12, 2007 9:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

S Jax

Unfortunately - this was the worst I've seen him ply in a Warrior uniform. In every other game you kept thinking he'd figure it out - not tonigh. His head looked like it was up his arse. On the bright side Baron shot over 40% from the field!!

by triplesix on Dec 12, 2007 9:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Oh yea

and MP should be relegated to thebench for good. I don't think he even knows what country he is in half the time!!

by triplesix on Dec 12, 2007 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It sucks to lose

But I'm not pulling my hair out over this loss.

The Blazers are not that bad of a team. They just beat down a team that we can never beat (the Jazz). They've definitely got some young talented players, and they hit alot of tough contested shots as well. They're a young athletic team just like we are.

There won't be too many nights when SJax goes 3-15 and Harrington goes 1-5 and we have to go all the way down the bench (to Croshere, Hudson and Belinelli) to find some offense.

Some positives to look at:

we went 12 of 13 from the charity stripe
Baron flew under the radar but still almost pulled off a triple double and an all around solid performance (23 pts, 11ast, 8boards, 2steals on 50% 3pt and FG shooting)
Matt Barnes pulled down 12 defensive rebounds

by jlagace on Dec 12, 2007 10:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Blazers fan here

Just wanted to add that the Blazers were missing LaMarcus Aldridge tonight. He's really good. I don't fully know the dynamics of the Warriors, but I know that the Blazers have relied on Aldridge for a lot of scoring and some tremendous 4 defense.

The Blazers are REALLY streaky, but they have beaten the; Mavs, Hornets, Pistons, Utah, and now y'all. Every team they beat said, "we played one of our worst games of the year...blah, blah, blah." At some point maybe the poor play was caused by the opponent.

Portland isn't near as horrible as people give them credit for, but they can be if they aren't focused (see first 9 road games). Don't be surprised if the Blazers win a few more they aren't supposed to.

My ignorance is my greatest weapon.

by shenanigans on Dec 12, 2007 10:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

about the Blazers

call me crazy.. but the Blazers kind of reminded me of us in some ways

watching us lose in Portland gives us a taste of how it feels like when other teams' fans see their teams come into Oracle and expect to win, and come away feeling like "wait, what the hell just happened??"

the Blazers are a very young but talented, streaky underdog team much like we were last year. throw Mr. Greg Oden in the mix and the Blazers might just be the next exciting up-and-coming franchise

by jlagace on Dec 12, 2007 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And the whole time we were playing

i kept saying...And LaMarcus Aldridge ain't even playing! When Roy, Outlaw, Webster are playing out of their minds, they can compete.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 12, 2007 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh my holy goodness

Beidrins had only 3 rebounds in 23 minutes? All offensive? What the heck kind of production is that for our budding star against an average C lineup? Also Jax only had 3 rebounds in 36 minutes. They were just tired out there.

Other than that you can't really expect to win when SJax goes 0-7. Some of those calls were just terrible, it was like he couldn't buy a foul.

Beli was 1-3 which isn't errible and he did show some hustle when everyone else seemed to drag. Even though THud did alright tonight, I still clench my teeth every time he shoots up a tre.

Also on a sidenote, when Baron was pushed into the crowd he was pissed. There should be some sort of consequence for players when they play to injure other players. That and Monta could have won us that game.

Keep Monta Movement.

by danielholl on Dec 12, 2007 10:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The way I feel about the loss

is they were due. They played like crap. He dubs aren't a good enough team to play like total crap and still pull out the victory against even the most average of teams. At least not now. Could be good enuf after the all-star break. I don't know, I feel punch drunk (And I haven't had a whiff of alcohol in 3 years).

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 12, 2007 10:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

^^^^yes

That's exactly why i think the Dubs have a glass ceiling. They're not going to win 50 games and make it to the western conference finals. And really, shouldn't teams be constructed to win championships? The goal is a trophy, not an 8th seed.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 12, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Getting ahead of ourselves

We just made it to the playoffs for the first time in thirteen years, and now we should be thinking about contending for a championship one season later? I realize that the window of opportunity is always a small one for NBA teams, but I think we need to take a second to appreciate the product we have right now. We get to watch one of the most exciting teams to play basketball for the last two decades.

No, we're not going to win the Western conference anytime soon, but we are blessed with a team other fans envy right now. I forgive them their low-energy, off shooting nights, because it just comes with the territory of playing a grueling 82 game season (especially without the depth J-Rich provided).

Don't get me wrong, I want the Warriors to be as successful as they can be, but seeing that only six franchises have won a championship in the last 20 years, we need to be careful about getting ahead of ourselves.

by mazlo on Dec 13, 2007 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In no way shape or form

do i think this team is going to contend just one year after BARELY making the playoffs.

I appreciate the warriors passion, grit and hustle. But this current group of guys is just not suited to win consistently or in a deep playoff series.

It is incredibly short sighted for not wanting to win a championship.

I think stubborn breeds more stubborness. Case in point Nellie is a stubborn son of a gun. I think his stubborness rubs off on the players because they constantly jack up 3's that shoot us out of the game. Come on, go to the frikken rim! Jax i'm looking directly at you on that one.

We also don't have a legit froncourt threat on offense, which makes us heavily guard oriented. This is a bad thing because our shooters are not great % wise.

We don't have the pg depth to spare Davis for a decent stretch each game. He's going to have to play 35+ minutes just for us to stay competitive. This will eventually wear him down which leads to a pulled hammy.

These are the basic reasons why i'm so critical of this team. A. We're stubborn B. No low post threat C. Lack of rest for Baron.

Until we can correct these three things, we will at best be a 7th seed. That's not good enough. I would just as rather rebuild with Monta, Marco, Brandan and AB than watch this group of guys chuck up 3 pointer after 3 pointer.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 13, 2007 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry but you just don't have

perspective because you haven't followed this team long enough

Maybe we can have this talk in a year or two

This year I am just going to enjoy

by Zig on Dec 13, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You need to further explain

your thought process on why you think i lack perspective other than coming to an assumption that i have not been a fan for more than a year. Please, entertain me.

I am naturally critical of this team because i think they shouldn't settle for a low playoff seed and no chance for a title. And i am not the only poster who thinks this way.

The warriors are a fun team to watch, so are the Suns. But the Suns have 1. Better shooters on the perimeter 2. A low post presense in Amare 3. 3 All stars 4. 2 time MVP PG. And with ALL of that they have still yet to appear in the Finals! So yes, Small ball, Run n Gun teams are fun to watch, but they in no way have set any precendence to win deep into the playoffs. Not with San Antonio's balanced attack and defensive style or Dallas in the Western Conference Finals.

So fine, i may be short sighted. I just want the warriors to be a perennial 50+ win team. But if you want to watch this fun style of play while the warriors continue ther uneven play, then that's fine by me. Enjoy this year. cheers to you!

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 13, 2007 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Precedent*

i can't spell.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 13, 2007 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So you don't want to end the season with an L?

Seriously dude,

We ALL want the warriors to win and be champions. But you can't just do it. You have to be lucky, you have to make good draft picks, you have to sign good free agents, and most importantly you CANNOT give Adonal Foyle 50M for 6 years (or whatever it was). You cannot give bad players giant contracts or you will not be able to resign your draft picks and you will not be able to sign free agents. Go look up pretty much any of OZ's old posts if you want more details.

If it was easy, every team would do it. You have to work with what you've got. If you have Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, and Adonal Foyle, you've done a GREAT job getting rid of the 4 horrible contracts (I'm including JR post-injury) for Al Harrington, Steven Jackson, a potential future All Star, and a buyout.

They stuck with Andris, drafted Monta, played hardball with MP, Andris, Baron, Barnes, and Monta. Mullin has learned his lesson (with help from Nelson) and looks like he's getting pretty good at his job. Remember when we were all pretty sad about Andris? Maybe Mullin knows what he's doing with Kosta.

Foyle hasn't come off the books yet. When he does we'll be in position to make a move for a pretty solid player. Zig's point is that we're moving in the right direction after so long at the bottom. Don't trash the team now, it's still a work in progress.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 14, 2007 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

All I have to explain is I have long

suffered and watched the Warriors since the days of Sleepy

Nelson is our savior and I am just going to enjoy this year

They have no chance at a title because they don't have enough talent. I don't believe for a second that Nelson doesn't just about squeeze as much as he can out of his players.

Honestly how can you criticize the man? Your main complaint is he isn't developing POB?

by Zig on Dec 14, 2007 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You are living in the moment then.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 14, 2007 4:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Your expectations are too high

Championship calibur teams aren't built overnight. You can make an argument that the Celtics were, but I'm going to argue that the Celtics put themselves in great position to be able to make the trades for KG and Ray Allen which made them into contenders. It all boils down to economics. In the NBA, with the soft salary cap, the money you spend on the payroll is a limited resource; and the way you allocate that money to your different players is crucial.

The Celtics were not a good team last year, at all. They lacked the talent to contend, yet they didn't dig themselves in a hole by handing out bad contracts. I'll note that Ratliff was a bad contract, but when bad contracts turn into soon-to-be expiring contracts, they become valuable trading assets. Aside from that, the Celtics stockpiled alot of cheap young talent; the bottom line is that the Celtics had players that other teams wanted (fair talent, fair contracts); and therefore put themselves in the position to acquire good players.

The Warriors have dug themselves a hole. Even though Murphy, Dunleavy, and Foyle aren't on the roster; we're still in the hole that they've dug for us. We're still paying for Foyle's contract, that takes away money we could be using to improve on our team. We traded Dunleavy and Murphy (players that didn't fit on our squad and had horrible contracts) for Harrington and Jackson (players that DO fit our squad, yet due to their contracts, they don't have value as trading chips). So we're still a team that has our money allocated to bad contracts. We're stuck with what we have, but at least what we have is exciting to watch and has made the playoffs. We're still paying for the Foyle, Dunleavy, and Murphy mistakes; we're lucky we're even this good.

You show me a bad NBA team, and I can show you the bad contracts that they handed out which turned them into a bad NBA team.

When Foyle comes off the books and Harrington and SJax turn into expiring contracts, I really hope Mullin makes good financial decisions with this team.

by jlagace on Dec 14, 2007 7:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I am fully aware

that Mullin handed out terrible contracts. I don't expect them to get under the salary cap. I'm just arguing that this team is still poorly constructed and not designed to win a championship.

And yes, if we break this team up we'd go back to losing. Probably. And many people do not want to see that with the relative success of last season. That's cool.

In two years Adonal's contract comes off. Al and Jax's deals become more desirable, and even Baron's contract is not a definite resign imo. We have a light at the end of the tunnel from the Dark Days of Dunleavy!

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 14, 2007 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Really there are role players all over the NBA

The issue is having either two super stars or three all stars and the rest will fall into place

In that light talking about POB, Bellini, Thud or Pietrus is fun but not really relevant to talking about a title

by Zig on Dec 14, 2007 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok.... Who do you suggest we target?

Your main complaints were:

We shoot too many 3s (especially Jack), and we don't drive to the basket.
No backup PG.

The solutions you provided were... probably in posts on other diaries.

Jack is not the greatest dribbler, we know that. He loses the ball a lot, and driving to the basket will only exacerbate that, so I think Jacking up a 3 is the lesser of two evils (I like my pun). We need a backup PG. I'm sure Mullson is on that. There have been numerous diaries about that specifically.

And about "being constructed for a championship". The new rules are designed specifically to allow penetration and scoring. The Suns ARE constructed for a championship. They almost beat SA last year and probably would have go on to win it all if they had. But, they've got two key deficiencies:

Nash is a sieve.
Amare needs to be slightly better defensively (and he's been injured).

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 14, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget the lack of a low post threat.

Not since MJ and Scottie has a team won without a legit bigman.

Phoenix is still better than us. And they haven't reached the finals basically summed up my statement. I'm not saying they won't, i'm just stating, that they have yet to do so.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 14, 2007 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe they're tired

last night they beat the team with the 2nd best record in the NBA. The next day they are on a plane to Portland and at 7pm are back on the court (and without Monta). I kind of expected this loss.

I wonder what the statistics are for teams winning the 2nd game of a back-to-back played on the road.

Anyway, in the grand scheme of things, I'm still glad they beat the spurs, even if it did drain them for this game to do it.

by centerre on Dec 12, 2007 11:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

excuses.

Portland played last night in Utah. They also played without their best frontcourt player in LaMarcus Aldridge.

If anything they were both handicapped equally.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 13, 2007 12:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

but I do think it's easier to play the 2nd game of a back-to-back at home (as Portland did) versus on the road (like we did).

and sometimes you just have a crappy night and it doesn't matter if you're at home or on the road.

by centerre on Dec 13, 2007 12:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Too many excuses

We can't simply make excuses for the team when they have a poor outing. Besides Barnes and Baron, the team played subpar. To me, it seemed as if Jacksons' head was elsewhere.

Troy Hudson was not to blame at all last night. Yes, he is a liability on both ends of the court, but he had a nice game last night. 10pts, 2 boards, 1 ast, 1 to. He had one less rebound than Biedrins! Also, we can't blame this loss on a back-to-back. They are professional atheletes who should be able to perform to their best regardless of the schedule.

To put it simply, we got outworked and outplayed. The combo of Roy and Outlaw with their assisting cast were on their game last night. Not much could have been done to stop them.

We gave some Warrior fans 13 years to realize that they were actually fans. Damn band wagoners!

by lyricalgenius on Dec 13, 2007 8:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Probably a combination of everything

They just finished playing the Lakers and Spurs and they're going back home to play the Lakers on Friday. The Warriors are FAR more concerned with beating the Lakers than Portland, and were probably looking past this game. They got lazy and disinterested and since they function on rhythm, it was hard to get it back once they lost it. Good win for Portland, now let's go beat LA and make things OK again.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 13, 2007 8:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's just one game in a long season

Relax, the W's had a bad game. It happens to all but the best teams. The Warriors win with high energy and outside shooting, both of which are prone to ebb and flow throughout the season. An 82 game season is a roller coaster ride, just like the games themselves. That's basketball. Try to enjoy the ride you're getting now, because we don't know how long it will last.

by mazlo on Dec 13, 2007 10:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd be surprised

If more teams didn't use our uber-aggressive zone against us. We played right into the pick-and-roll countless times. Usually it's a combination of whoever and Biedrins pulling it off on others.

Brandon Roy is a beast. Like Fitz said during the broadcast...this matchup is going to be fun for years to come.