IDEA: White Chocolate

by jlagace on Dec 31, 2007 10:36 AM PST Comment 46 comments

Ok ok I know this has been brought up before in the past in the offseason, but things have changed just a little bit since then.

Jason Williams
for
POB, Pietrus, Perovic

Our need for a good backup PG is obvious.

POB can be Miami's backup center, filling in for most-likely-retired Alonzo Mourning. POB might not be the greatest, but he's way better than the Earl Barron / Mark Blount combo they're currently rockin.

You may call me crazy after looking at their money stats, but I think Pietrus would be better for them at SF than Ricky Davis is. Ricky Davis is a low percentage chucker who doesn't pass the ball and plays absolutely no defense, which is why Dorell Wright starts over him now. Perovic is trade filler.

Miami is probably one of the biggest disappointments in the league, and to add insult to injury, they're going to be paying for being being in the luxury tax at the end of the year. They need youth, and they need to shake things up.

If that trade isn't appealing enough to them, I'd throw this in to sweeten the pot:

Monta Ellis + pick
for
Dorell Wright

Ellis is a much more reliable scorer right now, but Wright has SJax-like defensive length and potential, plus major athleticism.

Then we could trade some of our TPE for unused Smush Parker (and then cut him) to save them a couple mil from the luxury tax.

We could end up looking like this:

PG Baron / JWill
SG Azubuike / Belinelli
SF SJax / D.Wright
PF Harrington / Barnes / B.Wright
C Biedrins / MBenga

While the Heat look like this:

PG Monta / Quinn
SG Wade / D.Cook
SF Pietrus / R.Davis
PF Haslem / Blount
C Shaq / POB

They get a little bit younger, a little bit more athletic, and add another offensive weapon in Monta Ellis. And they'll be saving themselves from the luxury tax.

Some cons to the trade: I don't know how well Monta and Wade would work together. Both aren't true PGs and both are inconsistent 3 point shooters. Either way they're both efficient scorers who would be a fun scoring tandem to watch, imagine all the foul problems they'd put opposing teams in.

Again, at first glance, it looks like we're robbing them. But at this point, the Heat (8-20) might be in desperation mode; cutting down their payroll and adding a reputable 3rd option scorer like Monta might be what they need, cuz what they have right now certainly isn't going to take them anywhere.

There have been many good trade ideas for point guards that have been mentioned. Andre Miller, Jose Calderon, Luke Ridnour. But Andre Miller is scoring out of his mind right now, and his backup PG has cooled off as of late (Lou Will). Jose Calderon is too good and TJ Ford is too injury prone for the Raptors to deal Calderon away easily. The Seattle PGs have ugly ugly contracts (~$18mil/3yrs for Ridnour and Watson) that we should not go near. Grabbing Jason Williams away from the pathetic Heat is probably the situation that we could best profit from.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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you're crazy

Monta has unlimited potential and is our only consistant midrange player. If we lose him, it would definitly be a step back, we dont need a replacement for Jackson right now. IMHO, Monta is a keeper.

by Athan on Dec 25, 2007 9:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

OT from J-Will, didn't want to post all the

way down there. So i cut!

Throwing out a crazy idea/option.

Pickup Ben Wallace from Chicago. I tried figuring it out with trades and all, but i don't see the Warriors and Bulls as viable trading partners. Anywho, any trade for Ben must involve Al + filler. Chicago might do it b/c A. They get out of Ben's remaining 2 years. B. Although Al is signed for 2 more years as well, he'll be playing at almost half the price of ben. But that's as far as i can get. Both MP and Barnes need to approve a trade to chicago which i can't see them doing. POB doesn't make enough to fill salaries. Belinelli might be worth it to Chi, but its still early to be dealing him away.

Edit: actually doing the trade checker again:

Chi: Ben Wallace

for

Dubz: Al, MP, POB, Marco

add in picks, whatever whatever.

We'd be sending out a lot for an aging center. So with the TPE we send out

2nd rounder for Thabo Sefolasha

Can easily replace MP's production minus the corner 3's. Decent defender as Wade can attest to that. still on his RC so might not be a bad pick. Subt. Thabo for Duhon all you Back up PG lobbyists.

Anyway.

We'd plug Ben in at C, with Biedrins moving to PF, his more natural position. We all know that Nellie likes 4 scorers on offense in the running system to space the floor.

I counter with: Increasing the role AB has in the offense. Give him more range, iso plays, create mismatches for him as well as pick n roles. The Lakers have increased Bynum's role, and look what he's doing now. Biedrins might not have the athleticism Bynum posesses, but the warriors need to start trusting their young bigmen.

Defense ignites fast breaks. Wallace still is an above average defender. He'll guard the opposing team's best bigman while AB is free to roam. Having Ben might also improve AB's defensive skills, as he still isn't a great man to man defender.

So, Baron, Monta, Jax, Andris, BenW
bench of: Kelenna, Barnes, Thabo/Duhon, Wright, Cro, DJ

We trade a little bit of offense for a considerable amount of defense. Defense will be there every night, while warrior offense is here one game, shaky the next. Just imagine top notch frontline defense when the Dubz are hitting their shots. We could compete with any team in the league.

Its a possibility, but probably won't happen. But i'll enjoy the ride in my head.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 26, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

definately... we wouldn't be robbing them, in my opinion they would be getting better players.

by Proof on Dec 26, 2007 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I second...

...the discouragement. Ellis is the only Warrior who operates between the three point line and the pant consistently.

by Zack Vank on Dec 25, 2007 9:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

dorell wright?

we don't need him. monta gives us speed. look at how sluggish we were without him in the lineup. with thud's career probably over, we have room to work with. no need to sell the farm just yet.

by crazyray on Dec 25, 2007 10:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

WHAT

TRADE MONTA FOR THAT! are you ok?

What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Dec 25, 2007 10:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The only

guy I trade Monta away from the Heat is Dwade. I like your other idea though. But imo i think MP2 and POB is plenty for Jwill (who is getting old). Andre Miller would be a great fit from the 76ers!

Ballin

by ballin on Dec 25, 2007 11:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don't like MP's game

but I wouldn't trade him for Dried Up Chocolate even if the salaries matched. Did someone else post this under your name???

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Dec 26, 2007 9:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The other Chocolate

White Chocolate for POB, Pietrus and Kosta to Kosta Perovic? I'd take that any day of the week. MP3 is so outta here come the '08-'09 season. We need another PG right now. With THUD done we need to secure a good PG so that Monta can be Monta-not a PG. With Baron being prone to injury, its a good idea to pick up a guy like J Will or Earl The Squirrel Boykin's.

Trade Monta? Crack kills. He is the 3rd best player on the entire squad. Monta is the most promising thing looking in the future. Don't get rid of him unless we get a bonified stud like another Baron or a CP3.

by gabezgsw on Dec 26, 2007 9:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I can't resist

enjoying what an improvement "bonified" is over "bona fide!" As in, "he's more than just quick and tough, more than just qualified...he's BONIFIED!"

by mikej on Dec 28, 2007 2:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

bonified: (adj) made bony

Is bonified then the opposite of petrified?

by jae on Dec 28, 2007 6:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pietrified

(adj) nullified, negated, as by turnover or offensive foul (put the emphasis anywhere you like in "offensive;" it'll be legitimate, including emphasis on "sive" as in "sieve"--see Foyle, A.)

by mikej on Dec 30, 2007 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I see a lemming effect developing

What's with all the hate for Jason Williams? His 3-point shooting is still there, his FG% percentage is down but so are his shot attempts. His assists are still there, and his turnovers are way down. He's still an exciting-as-ever playmaker if Riley let him do his thing, he'd be the hottest thing since sliced bread if Nellie let him run the break the way he wants to over here. You can't do any better than Jason Williams as your backup PG, with the exception of Calderon.

And people are treating Monta Ellis like the second coming of Jesus Christ. Cmon guys, we need to accept the fact that Monta Ellis is what he is, he's not going to be Dwyane Wade or the next Michael Jordan or anything like that; he's never even going to crack the All-NBA second team or even make an All-Star appearance. You want an accurate non-homer comparison of how everyone else in the world sees Monta? He's essentially Leandro Barbosa with no 3-point range, but a midrange game. And that's all, sorry to burst everyone's bubble; Monta's good but he's no savior.

Dorell Wright is solid , he's one of those guys who would thrive in this system due to the mismatches he presents. He wouldn't be SJax replacement, he'd backup at positions 2 through 4, be another great wing defender for, and pull down some boards, and throw down some nasty jams.

Him and JWill would fill out our depth quite nicely. With a solid backup PG and a solid defending SF, Baron and SJax don't have to play 48 minutes every game and we'd be able to save some juice for the postseason, and reduce chances of injury.. because everyone here and their moms should know that if Baron or Jackson go down with an injury, this season is over.

by jlagace on Dec 26, 2007 10:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Lemmings...

...was a fun video game. Probably more fun than Jason Williams is good, if examined relatively.

In all seriousness, I might trade Pietrus for Jason Williams merely to fill a need, even though I really don't like Williams' game. I might even trade Pietrus and POB, even though I suspect POB would be the best player in the deal because I know Don Nelson just won't let the kid play (preferring to stunt his career with, honestly, a clumsy foul machine like Mbenga). At the point I'm giving up three players of varying degrees of worth, though, I draw the line.

Jason Williams is 32, I believe, and close to it if he's any younger. He doesn't strike me as a very good chemistry guy, nor do I think the flow of the game would benefit with him subbing in. The system we have now of splitting point responsibilities with Monta and Jack works better than I think Williams would, if only Nelson would be more willing to try it.

Of note: Derek Fisher is having a better year than Williams in slightly less minutes. Anybody who knows my feelings on Fisher knows how little I want him here, so I'm not especially inclined to shell out for "White Chocolate."

by Zack Vank on Dec 26, 2007 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

now i like the idea of JWill

But no1 is suggesting monta is the second coming of Jordan, and just because he isn't doesn't mean we should dump him. Dorrell Wright could be a nice player, but at this point trading him and a pick would be stupid. Monta is playing great, i would let him get pt at the point i think he is doing much better there, if we want to get Jwill for this season and then let his deal expire great, if not, we got monta to play point.

by Proof on Dec 26, 2007 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well said, young Lemming

no1 is suggesting monta is the second coming of Jordan, and just because he isn't doesn't mean we should dump him

Precisely. You've hit on the essence of how to deal with "Straw Man" Lagace when he starts doing his thing. You can pretty much address every one of his arguments by starting with "no one here ever":

No one here ever referred to Monta as "the savior."
No one here ever compared Monta to Wade or Jordan (well, OK, I juxtaposed their age 22 #s, because they are remarkably similar, but never suggested Monta was the second coming of Wade).
No one here ever said they "hated" Jason Williams.
No one here doesn't think Dorell Wright is an exciting young player.
No one here doesn't understand that if Baron or Jackson go down, we're in trouble.

Meanwhile, some numbers to ponder -- these before Monta's 35/6/4/2/1 explosion last night:

Monta Ellis (age 22)
34.8 min/g
49.6% fg
74.4% ft
16.6 pts
4.1 reb
3.4 ast
1.7 to
1.3 stl

Jason Williams (age 32)
31.8 min/g
39.4% fg
74.3 ft%
8.7 pts
2.3 reb
5.4 ast
1.6 to
1.4 stl

by Sleepy Freud on Dec 27, 2007 1:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Simplified

The principals of the deal, by PER:

Monta Ellis 17.7
Dorell Wright 15.2
Mickael Pietrus 12.0
Jason Williams 12.0

by Sleepy Freud on Dec 27, 2007 4:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Underestimating Monta

You seem to not understand how pivotal Monta is to our team. Compare him to Barbosa? What's wrong with that, but his ceiling is so much higher. That's cool, you don't think he's the next MJ. Ok.

by eshock on Dec 26, 2007 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

not lemmings...

see the SFGate:

Miami's Jason Williams is referred to as "White Chocolate," but only desperate ABC/ESPN honks call him that because he's basically useless, even though he makes $8.9 million a year while averaging less than nine points a game.

He's also a lunkhead.

Williams said this before Tuesday's game when a reporter from the Florida Sun-Sentinel asked him about trade rumors.

"We're like some high-paid prostitutes anyway in this league," he said. "They just use and get rid of us whenever they want."

Uh, Jason, you have a better deal than prostitutes. Let's see: Play basketball every other day, or service fat, scary, rich shut-ins every day? Yeah, probably basketball.

by OaktownWarrior on Dec 26, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

lol

seriously... life must be tough playing basketball and being rich

by Proof on Dec 26, 2007 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

From Miami's perspective, POB Perovic and Pietrus

Let's look at these trades from Miami's perspective. What do they really get in POB, Pietrus and Perovic after this season? Let's just assume for a moment that Pietrus agrees to the trade since he has veto power over a trade. This is something he's likely to veto since once traded his Bird rights disappear meaning he will be in that nebulous free agent market that has to beg for part of a MLE or take a vet minimum, but let's just say that South Beach agrees with him and he decides he'd like to head east.

Pietrus probably walks from wherever he is next year. Miami would be buying a rental of him. Is that really worth something to them?

POB (since he wasn't extended) and Pietrus will be non-Bird free agents. Counting on the POB to be your backup in a year when he can walk away means you're counting on him to a) be good enough to play, something that's far from a given and b) want to stay at the bargain price Miami will be limited to paying him to keep him. If he's any good, he could command more. If he isn't, he's worthless and you don't want him. He cannot be counted on beyond the season's end at all, and he's as available to them at season's end without trade as he is with trade. That doesn't make him that desirable a commodity unless someone wants him for cap relief. This point would be moot for Miami, as they're getting the relief from Williams at year's end anyhow.

So this means that the deal, from Miami's perspective, would be all about Perovic, a second rounder stuck in the D-league who makes more than most stuck in the D-league second rounders. They get his salary next year, diminishing the cap relief by Kosta's salary, which doesn't sound like it's much of a deal to them

So the deal for them is this: is Perovic worth his salary next year? If yes, then the deal makes sense. If no, then it doesn't.

by jae on Dec 26, 2007 12:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

good analysis

though there might be a desire to simply get rid of Williams' salary

by Zig on Dec 26, 2007 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

salary

His salary goes away at year's end if they don't trade him. The only way getting rid of his salary makes sense for them is from this year's lux tax. If that's the case, then he can go to a team with a TPE to use for a pick or something similar. Trading him for other players accomplishes nothing in terms of salary reduction.

by jae on Dec 26, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Miami's Payroll Reduction

In the scenario presented above, the Heat end up shedding almost $5mil in payroll for the season, from both the 125% wiggle room in matching up salaries in addition to swapping Smush Parker with the TPE.

The payroll shedding to avoid the luxury tax as well as filling out their depth chart would be Miami's primary motive to make such a trade.

It is true they'd only be renting the players we send them, but one could also say it as them getting a clean slate at those roster vacancies at the start of next year. Yeah Jason Williams is an expiring anyway, but again.. the luxury tax this season should concern them. Plus the opportunity to shed Smush's paycheck for nothing should be attractive to them.

by jlagace on Dec 26, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

my bad

I didn't realize he was in his last year. I thought he has two left

Your right it makes zero sense for the Heat to do this deal

by Zig on Dec 26, 2007 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But thanks

for the cool comments and analysis guys. I'm reading much better stuff than "ZOMG!!! MONTA ELLIS IS THE NEXT DWYANE WADE!!! NOOOOOOO"

by jlagace on Dec 26, 2007 3:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Williams

Bear in mind that it's still quite some time before the trade deadline.

The Heat are linked to virtually every player "on the block", from Jordan coming out of retirement, to a Greg Oden, to Mike Miller. Well, not really on the first two, but definitely Miller and Stromile Swift, Andre Miller, Mike bibby, Ron Artest, blah blah.

The key to any of those deals is Jason Williams.

Therefore while Williams isn't that valuable on the court to the Heat (Who suck with or without him), they will hold on to him until the last moment to try and swing a bigger move than the TPE and/or Pietrus or any Warriors.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Dec 26, 2007 4:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Aren't the Heat dead?

I get the feeling that by the time a potential trading partner is ready to swing a deal, the Heat will be hopelessly out of the playoffs, if they aren't already. They should rebuild around Wade, but how do they get rid of Shaq?

by San Francisco Slim on Dec 27, 2007 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

they don't and they are close

Shaq was the deal with the devil and the Heat knew it at the time - no way another team takes him now with that contract, and the Heat were trying to stretch with Zo and a semi-veteran group to compete in the leastern conf. but that's eroding quickly - if they're not dead they're close to it .... Can't see Riley finishing out Shaq's contract either (Skiles?). ... Wade is stuck in purgatory now, or worse - he's been to the top so early in his career and now may not ever get back there, or even to the ECF again.

by hardcore on Dec 27, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

these

posts that advocate trading monta are getting old...in every situation the warriors get a potentially good player and/or someone like white chocolate(old and decent). in reality if monta gets det they should at least get a solid starter. the ppg, blazing speed and most improved player award have to count for something.

straight g

by RC650 on Dec 27, 2007 10:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Amen

Monta started the year slow, but has really come into his own and still has a lot of potential to be a better player. He seems to be taking more of the ball handling duty and is the one guy you can count on not to hoist a three everytime down the floor.
J-Will might be a nice addition for Pietrus and filler if he keeps his mouth shut. Wouldn't keep him beyond this year though.

by tangel29 on Dec 28, 2007 1:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Honestly

I don't think this is in our best interest. As Sleepy Freud pointed out, we'd be losing in PER, and why would the Heat want to get rid of the great ball distribution to Shaq? Jason Williams has a knack for some crazy passes, and getting rid of him is not the problem. They're not going to jump at Monta. Pretty much every player on their roster is a solid scorer Shaq, Wade, Ricky Davis, Udonis Haslem, Daequan Cook, and Dorell Wright can all no doubt score. They may want his athleticism, but doesn't Dorell Wright fill that need?

Ugh, I have no idea what the Heat actually need. They need 2 Shaqs.

Tony.psd = Da Man

http://adonalobsessed.blogspot.com/

by Zorgon on Dec 28, 2007 2:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts

Do you guys think Flip Murray would be a good replacement for Troy Hudson. He may be on the block come trade deadline. He's 6'3 197lbs. He only makes 1.8mil

and Please quit talking about trading Monta. Thats just dumb. Unless we can get Delonte West and Chris Wilcox:)

by highflya on Dec 28, 2007 10:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Seriously?

The bottom line:

Monta, MP2, POB, Kosta and a draft pick
for
Jason Williams and Dorell Wright

This trade pretty much undos all the good graces mullin earned by trading away the dunmurphy experiment. That's 1 lopsided trade.

I wouldn't trade monta for 2 white chocolates, a dorell wright, a draft pick and a partridge in a pear tree.

Without his colorful passes what is white chocolate NOW - a no D, injury prone, overpaid 3 point chucker. Like we need another one of those. Sure he's a pure point, but for what is needed to get him, he's not worth it. To lose one of the most potent 2pt scorers on the team to add another 3 pt chucker isn't improving ish!

Seriously, imagine white chocolate with a green light! Not everyone can handle freedom. His shot selection was worst than baron's b4 riley shackled him up. Like he's gonna start driving and dishing at his age and he could just as easily throw up a contester 3pter w/o fear of getting benched. THUD part 2 I tell ya.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 28, 2007 11:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd do it for

Wright and Daequan cook + 2nd round pick. But Miami wouldn't.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 28, 2007 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

why the hell

would you trade monta AND a pick for DORELL WRIGHT. thats like trading antawn jamison for popeye jones and nick van...wait...

by djchuckdeez on Dec 28, 2007 1:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

no way

if the W's ever got rid of Monta for Dorell Wright, I would not be a W fan anymore

by B Randon on Dec 28, 2007 2:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It would be part of the larger trade

And hey, we traded away JRich for Brandan Wright and things turned out okay didn't they? Sometimes you have to look beyond just comparing the talent level of Player A and the talent level of Player B.

But it's cool, I'm sure Monta Ellis will go on to score 30 points per every game and be a future hall of famer, no doubt. Oh wait what just happened? Midrange jumper not falling? No other way to score in the half court offense? What happened to our Superman?!? I guess the rim was broken last night.

by jlagace on Dec 29, 2007 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The rim breaks more

in white chocolate's/ dorell wrights games. I guess that's why they have one of the worst records despite wade playin out of his mind.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 29, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

Wright shoots 50% from the field this year, and has a higher career FG% than Monta too.

The rim doesn't break more often for Jason Williams either, because he only takes 8 shots per game (chucker?). He's actually on the floor to pass the ball and get assists (5.4apg), and take care of the ball (1.6topg). What a revolutionary idea for a point guard, one that passes the ball often.

And you can blame the Heat's record on Ricky Davis (he's the REAL chucker on the team) and his disappearing acts on defense.

But hey why do we need a backup point guard or another solid player off the bench anyway. Our seven man rotation is doing just dandy.

by jlagace on Dec 29, 2007 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, yeah

"Not shooting the ball much, but hoisting long-range bricks when you do." Now that's an enviable skill. I think I could be pretty good at that.

Updated PER:
Monta Ellis 17.37
Jason Williams 11.99

Are you actually arguing that Jason Williams is a more productive player than Monta Ellis? Or are you still just arguing against your imaginary friend who compared Monta to Michael Jordan?

by Sleepy Freud on Dec 29, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

fyi

10 years of chuckerness = still a chucker

If a guy's been chucking it up for 10 years, regardless of his 2007 stats, he's still a chucker. Nelson's "go get 'em" approach to players is not conducive for a guy with bad shot selection. The only thing that save BD and Jax here is that they MAKE a lot of shots and they d up sometimes. Qualities that white chocolate has seem to have lost.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 30, 2007 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The crusade against imaginary posts

Continues...

Did he say your proposed trade would turn out badly?

Did he compare the talent level of player A and player B?

Did he (or anyone) say Monta would score 30 a game, and become a future HOFer?

Did he say the rim was broken last night?

Did he call him our Superman?

All he said was he "wouldn't be a fan anymore" if we traded Monta. For all you know, he's Monta's #1 fan -- or cousin, or brother, or sister, mother, or maybe Monta himself.

As far as last night: "what just happened" is that he went 12/6/6 with one turnover on a night when -- for the first time this month -- his shot was badly off. His overall stats for the month of December:

17.9 pts/5.3 reb/4.3 ast/1.7 to/1.3 stl -- 51% from the floor and 82% from the line.

After a slow start -- surely related to the fact that he was temporarily paralyzed during preseason -- he has clearly stepped up his game a notch from his "NBA MIP" levels. Of course his ceiling is a matter on which reasonable can disagree; but your knee-jerk disrespect for his game is growing pretty wearisome. Did he sleep with your girlfriend or something?

by Sleepy Freud on Dec 29, 2007 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ellis

I have no disrespect for Monta's game at all. But I am cautious about is his potential. I simply
don't believe he can get that much better than he is.

What he is is pretty damn good, especially in our system. But he's not irreplaceable by any means, and trading him away (starting Azubuike might not even make our team worse) could help out the depth of our team tremendously. I'm not worried about replacing Monta's scoring.. at all. Getting solid backups and providing much needed rest for our MVPs (Baron and SJax) is more important to me. But I guess that's just me.

Add in the fact the financial flexibility we will have by not having to shell out alot of money to pay Monta next offseason.

Maybe I'm making too many blind assumptions about how people feel about Monta Ellis here. But whenever Monta's name is brought up in any kind of trade rumor or idea.. it's always "NO, ANYBODY BUT MONTA!!!" Even during the KG trade ideas. Comments like "The only player I'd trade Monta for is Wade!" Those kinds of things lead me to believe we're a little bit biased about what kind of player Monta Ellis really is.. just a little bit.

by jlagace on Dec 29, 2007 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

I share your basic belief that players of Monta's ilk -- undersized scorers who aren't plus defenders, passers, or rebounders -- are generally overrated, whether we're talking about Monta, Iverson, or Arenas. I just think you sometimes overstate the case.

Rather than talk about Monta's value in general terms, I prefer to go player by player. Would I trade him for Ty Thomas or Josh Smith? Absolutely. Dorell Wright? Probably not. Jason Williams, Reggie Evans and guys of their respective ilks? No way.

by Sleepy Freud on Dec 29, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Monta isn't untradeable. He's just untradeable if that junk package jlagace proposed is all miami's offering. That's all. We could do way better than that, and if not, then monta's better off a dub.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 30, 2007 12:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs