"Brick" Daddy: Where is the back-up PG?

by formerlythecity on Dec 4, 2007 12:41 PM PST

Unfortunately, it's not just an "opinion" that BD is a poor shooter. He put on a clinic in brick laying last night that will be hard to top. 6-23! (My little brother and I could at least hit the rim 25 feet from the basket.) But curiously, nothing ever seems to change with Baron's propensity to fire away. Even though he is among the worst shooting PGs in the league.

It cost them the game last night.

Will it cost them a playoff berth? Some numbers below...

Baron IS the POINT GUARD, right? The "ball handler?" The "play maker?" When he does those things he IS one of the better PGs in the league. When he shoots, he is... not.

Baron's job at the Point is to take care of the ball and make sure each trip down the floor results in the highest percentage chance at scoring.

As opposed to a "shooting" guard, whose job is to... shoot. To not worry first about things like distributing the ball.

So why does Baron shoot so often, while his higher percentage shooting teammates stand there and watch?

Why does he dominate the offense, insisting on being THE scorer for the Ws, while firing up brick after excruciating brick?

One would think that it would start to dawn on him (and the team) that in that role, he is a LIABILITY for the Warriors, not a asset. But he (and the team) seem to have a curious lack of consciousness about that.

There's nothing like watching BD dribble down and fire up a ball from 30 feet without a single Warrior near the basket, and having it drop, like a gift, into the hands of the other team, who turn around and head the other way. I call that a turnover. The stat sheet doesn't. But those kinds of low percentage decisions clearly end up with the same result.

Baron is averaging about 8.5 assists and 3 turnovers (not counting the bad shot "turnover") per game. That's a "plus 5.5" on play making decisions. Utah's Deron Williams is averaging over 9 assists with almost 4 TOs. For roughly the same "net" (plus 5). Steve Nash is averaging 11 assists, with 4 TOs, for a plus 7.

Ok, so Williams and Nash are perhaps the best PGs in the league, and they're only slightly better or as good as Davis, based on the assists/turnovers ratio, aren't they? Uh, sadly, that's not the whole story.

So what is the REAL difference between these three???

Field Goal Percentage.

Nash 52.8
Williams 52
Davis 41.7

AND Shots Attempted.

Nash 12.7
Williams 14
Davis 19.6

Not only are Williams and Nash making over 20 percent MORE of their shots (the PERCENTAGE difference between 40 and 50 percent shooting, for those who don't want to do the math) they are actually TAKING far fewer shots!

They are letting teammates with even HIGHER percentage shots take more shots per game than Baron is.

When you factor in team offensive rebounding... Williams has Boozer and Okur standing there to gather in misses and put them back, while Nash has Stoudamire and Marion making his misses often look like ASSISTS.

Watch Nash when he shoots a long range jump shot. It usually happens when one or two of his guys are in rebounding position.

With the Warriors, when Davis flings up a brick, THE OTHER FOUR WARRIORS ARE OFTEN ALREADY HEADING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. In Nelson's defensive scheme, nobody on the Warriors even stays around to ATTEMPT an offensive rebound, as he sends them back on defense when the ball is launched. Thus making so many of Baron's huge number of misses into virtual turnovers.

"But you're comparing Baron with the best PGs in the league," you say. That's "not fair to BDiddy!"

Ok, let's compare him to the PGs on the winning teams in the NBA (teams over .500) in FG percentage.

Rondo (Bos) 53.5 (7 attempts)
Parker (SA) 52.6 (15.8 attempts)
Nelson (Orl) 45.9 (10.3 attempts)
Billups (Det) 44.9 (11.3 attempts)
Paul (NO) 47.9 (15.1 attempts)
Harris (Dal) 46.6 (10.7 attempts)
TJ Ford (Tor) 46.2 (11 attempts)
Iverson (Den) 43.8 (17.9 attempts)

Baron 41.7 (19.6 attempts)

(There are only two starting Point Guards in the league who are WORSE shooters than Davis.)

The ONLY winning team in the NBA with a Point Guard taking the most shots is San Antonio, with Tony Parker. (And that's probably because Duncan is hurt. Last year he and Duncan were about even in shots per game.) But BOTH Duncan and Parker MAKE WELL OVER 50% OF THEIR SHOTS! (Which is why the Spurs are the best team in the NBA.)

Chris Paul comes close to Parker's 15.8 attempts at 15.1, but neither of those guys come close to Baron's whopping 20 attempts per night. And New Orleans isn't going far this year either.

Only the dinosaur Iverson at 17.9 attempts per game approaches BDiddy for ball hoggishness, and EVEN IVERSON DOESN'T TAKE THE MOST SHOTS ON HIS TEAM. Luckily for Denver, Carmelo gets that honor.

On a seasonal basis, year after year, the teams with the best shooting percentages win the most games.

Here are the top five teams with the highest percentage this year. Utah, Phoenix, San Antonio, Boston and Detroit. Hmmmm, sound familiar???

Surprisingly, the Dubs are in the middle of the NBA pack (or a little above) at 45% team shooting.

But Davis is shooting 41.7. And leads the team in shots attempted.

So what does that mean?

It means, obviously, that there are a lot of other Warriors who are better shooters, making up for some of Baron's misses, and lifting the team percentage up.

Unfortunately they are not taking enough shots to overcome Davis yet, and lift the team up to the shooting standards of the top NBA teams.

It means the Warriors are winning games DESPITE BD's tremendously poor shooting. And until they allow other players who are better shooters to take more shots, they will be stuck in the middle of the NBA. A playoff "fringe" team.

A FUN team to watch, but a fringe team.

It's time for somebody to tell Baron that he needs to be a play maker first, and a shooter second, if they really want to get to the next level.

Will that "somebody" be Don Nelson?

We'll see.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

nah

Baron's fine, he just had an off night. The real problem is fatigue because he plays too much.

Hence...our need for a backup PG, but no one believes me.

Drew Gooden?

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Dec 4, 2007 12:50 PM PST reply actions

I believe you.

I think his poor shot selection comes mostly from fatigue. When he's too tired to create, he just launches.

Nice post, formerlythecity.

by chacabuco on Dec 4, 2007 1:45 PM PST up reply actions

the point is not to figure out why he shoots...

...so horribly on a given night. could be fatigue - who cares. you HAVE to be smart enough to understand, in the course of any given game, what you're capable of doing to help the team, and what you're doing that's hurting the team. every elite player in history has self-evaluated this way, period.

if he's too tired to make baskets, he's GOT to stop shooting us out of the game. he has all the skills you require of a basketball player, and it's only absurd stubborness (read ego) that keeps him from going to the other part of his bag of tricks that would actually help us win a game like that.

excrutiating to watch. i was yelling at my TV to give it up to Monta every time down the floor. does that sound right to anybody, that my faith in Monta that particular night had eclipsed my faith in Baron by about 20-fold? he's got to figure it out.

by 321 IN n OUT on Dec 5, 2007 7:08 AM PST up reply actions

Baron

has ALWAYS shot the ball too damn much. He just had a real bad shooting day last night. But yes, Baron is a terrible % shooter. During the Dallas series he drove non-stop, which is what he should do, its what Nash and Parker do. Baron is just as content with jacking up 25 foot jumpers.

I blame Nellie in a way for his lack of discipline on offense. But of course you can't bench baron for taking a bad shot. Right?

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 4, 2007 12:59 PM PST reply actions

Great Post

I agree above. People have mentioned Baron's poor shot selection, and these numbers really spell it out. Last night was an aberration, but Baron does force a lot of tough shots every game. It looks good when they go down(much like Kobe), but overall it hurts the team.

I didn't even realize he was shooting such a poor percentage this year, because you get blinded by the ppg.

by MikeJ11 on Dec 4, 2007 1:31 PM PST reply actions

woah

okay no, your take on him is all worng. Baron should never be tld to not shoot or anything cept get a T. Really if he didnt play his way in the playoffs the we get crushed. I disagree saying he lost us the game the other night it was he and the accumalation of bad shooting also if monta had hit both of his free throws the magic need three. But no he misses oh well one game in which i am happy with a loss for the first time in awhile we shouldve been blown out completely but we toook it to us with a game winnner just really bad shot from monta. I like the time you took to establish your points but really bron is baron he was terrible that night and he still had 19 and 9 and im sure a few steals and rebounds and blocks. Sure you have points but please dont say you could make baskets in an nba game being covered by pros or tryin to drive and having DWIGHT HOWARD in mind im just sayin dwight is the fright. Overall great post

by Getturiaf510 on Dec 5, 2007 4:33 PM PST up reply actions

shots taken vs. shot selection

I'm not too worried with BD taking the most shots on the team as I am with his shot selection. And, it again comes down to fatigue and our lack of player and ball movement. But then again, he hasn't shot over 45% in his career and his 43% last year was a career best. So it's easier said than done to have Nellie tell Baron to stop chucking questionable outside shots. It's something you just have to live by.

by lightz0ut on Dec 4, 2007 2:19 PM PST reply actions

"Fatigue" isn't Baron's shooting problem

It's that he's simply not a very good shooter.

In fact, Baron is a downright crappy shooter. He's got great skills in other areas, but in shooting ability... not. Only a "dumb" team is going to use him and not figure out a way to deal with that reality.

A "smart" team can NOT make him their primary scorer and expect to compete with the best NBA teams.

He's played in the league long enough to establish that.

Check the history of teams with him as their leading scorer.

by formerlythecity on Dec 4, 2007 3:24 PM PST up reply actions

I never said fatigue was making him miss

Fatigue and lack of player/ball movement heavily contributes in making Baron into a jump shooter which we are in agreement that he's not. That's the point I'm trying to make. Although it's not the only reason, fatigue greatly affects his shot selection.

by lightz0ut on Dec 4, 2007 10:00 PM PST up reply actions

interesting article

i think your forgetting though that baron is EXPECTED to be our leading scorer. without him being our leading scorer, we will go nowhere. You are comparing baron to all these PGs but baron is unique. hes the only one required and expected to be a leading scorer night in and night out...

Bad shooting night. im not complaining. get us a backup PGs and theres no problem

P.S. spurs have only played 1 game without duncan so parker is taking alot of shots, because he takes alot of shots, not because duncan is gone

by NinerWarrior on Dec 4, 2007 2:30 PM PST reply actions

Baron is "expected" to take shots...

because no other players on this team have established themselves, not because he's a good shooter. It's a "status" thing, not a "skill" thing.

Parker takes a lot of shots BECAUSE UNLIKE BARON, HE MAKES THEM (52%). As does Tim Duncan, at around the same percentage. Winning teams NEED high percentage shooters, and they need them to take a high percentage of the team's total shots.

Baron takes the shots because he personally (and apparently Nelson) believes he should, and nobody is stopping him. It has little to do with the reality of his shooting ability. His offensive value is in ball control, passing, creating, and occaisonally driving. His jump shooting is worse than an average replacement level NBA PG.

Saying you've got to take the "bad with the good" with Baron, is sort of like saying there's no such thing as coaching, or strategy, or discipline. Or growth.

Baron, and this team NEED to grow out of him being "expected" to be the high scorer every night, or they're not going much further than last year.

They either need better scorers (a new high percentage shooter or two, namely, a scoring beast power forward or a center) or they need to let their existing offensive players grow, and hope they can become the focus of the offense. Not Baron.

(Look at the lifetime records of teams with Deron Willams, Steve Nash and Tony Parker at the point compared to the teams with BD, if you're really convinced Baron should be "leading" the offense).

As long as Baron is the leading shot taker, they are stuck in the middle of the NBA.

by formerlythecity on Dec 4, 2007 3:12 PM PST up reply actions

growth

I agree with you on the growth part. But that's not gonna happen overnight. It's easy for us to say this and that because we're in the outside looking in. One thing Nellie has done well with this team is adjust. Sometimes, we feel it's too late but the adjustment is usually there.

As for taking the "bad with the good," sometimes you just have to. Again I agree with Nellie putting a leash on Baron, a very long leash but still a leash. But it doesn't really matter how many shots he takes but where he's taking it. What's wrong with him being our leading shot taker if he's taking it to the hole or taking open shots 80-90% of the time?

Again, fatigue and ball movement is the X factor. Baron obviously can't drive to the hole every time he gets the ball and if the other players are not open, he's can't really be that an effective playmaker.

by lightz0ut on Dec 4, 2007 10:25 PM PST up reply actions

My Only BD Beef

I absolutely HATE IT when BD's man makes a play, BD will try to 1 UP him on the other end. He gets so STUBBORN with his "Take That" approach that he forgets his teammates for a stretch. He's been hitting when that happens, so no one minds, but I've been always saying that's gonna bite us one day and guess what...

When he does that ish and the can't buy a bucket, its excruciating.

BD! Next time that happens, don't try yo abuse your man on offense, JUST TIGHTEN YOUR DEFENSE!

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 4, 2007 2:38 PM PST reply actions

agreed.

that stretch in the 2nd qtr(?) really hurt the dubs. i think d.howard was sitting out for an extended period of time and yet orlando's lead grew b/c baron was forcing things w/ bogans on him as he did w/ watson the night before.

nellie needs to be the coach and get him out of the games at those times b/c not only does he miss a lot, but he also picks up silly fouls.

by the evil monkey on Dec 4, 2007 6:42 PM PST up reply actions

Ag

I agree with you. The whole time he was throwing up bricks I was saying to myself, man, what if he just drove 'n' dished out to a shooter or to Beidrins on the P & R.

by jtoj on Dec 4, 2007 3:31 PM PST reply actions

Screens and plays

What I noticed last night was the Magic using a forward to screen each time down the court. That wore down our defense trying to squeeze thru the screen, and 9 times out of 10 freed the shooter to run the lane. We were screened to death.

They also ran plays starting with the screen, which makes the dish automatically more effective because there is one less defender, the one supposed to be on the passer.

It was beautiful to watch and definitely a refinement which the Dubs need to implement immediately. The problem with Baron's shooting percentage is that when they set up they don't have any specialized plays to run. I gotta blame the coaches for not teaching the players to screen instead of scream at the officials. You can make points with a screen, you never make points with an official. Credit Van Gundy. In fact, I love Nellie, always has, but we need some order within the free-form chaos of this offense.

Letting the players create for 48 aint great.
If the razzle dazzle fizzles from the dizzle, we preen the screen with lean mean latveen bedreens, man!

by Daddio @ Golden State Of Mind on Dec 4, 2007 5:34 PM PST reply actions

It's All Ego

I am not going to say anything that hasn't been said, but it makes me sick to see Baron taking his stupid, yes stupid, low percentage "fade away" like he is MJ. It is just ridiculous. Jordan is 3 inches taller and could get much greater seperation and vision from and over the defender. Baron's ego is so big, and of course Nellie makes it worse by not pulling him out when he is fatigued and acting "stupid" (meaning he thinks he is MJ).

Of all the stats you quoted, the one you probably don't have is what % of those fade away's he actually makes. I would guess 10% at most.

I will take exception to the convential wisdom posted mostly by OZ in terms of needing a backup point guard; but, only in the sense Nellie would play him at the expense of Baron's ego and need to be the field leader.

We lost to the Magic because of Nellie's coaching decisions and will continue to loes in the fourth quarter as our starters have been overplayed to the point of fatigue. Jax had three turnovers and Monta--well, what can we say about Monta except he is very young and still prone to mistakes.

No point, per se, in ripping Baron or Monta or Jax when this games was lost because Nellie won't take control of the team and lets Baron do whatever he friggen feels like doing. Baron will keep trying to be MJ until Nelson takes coaches him like he does all the other players on the team.

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Dec 4, 2007 7:10 PM PST reply actions

backups

So:

Nellie should not play Jack/Baron so much.

And

Backup is not a need

Question:
when Jack and Baron are given rest, who do you play?

Answer:
Backups. Baron's case the backup is Monta Ellis, who, obviously, is not a PG.

Conclusion:

It's not nellie's fault he's overplaying guys

because

He has no one else to put in.

Conventional wisdom makes sense sometimes.

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Dec 4, 2007 7:24 PM PST up reply actions

Monta

could be the best backup PG in the league. He did have 7 assists to 0 turnovers. I think the conventional wisdom here is Nellie needs to actually coach Baron and have him exercise more discipline .

With regards to minutes, Nellie needs to design a plan outlining minutes and stick to it. And put the starters on the bench when you're up 20 in the 4th.

by MikeJ11 on Dec 4, 2007 7:39 PM PST up reply actions

You Said It All

Nellie needs to coach and instill a modicum of discipline. Nellie is afraid to mess with Baron's ego.

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Dec 4, 2007 8:24 PM PST up reply actions

STOP!!!!

listen the monta bashing is so tired now. If you have seen him lately he is passing crisp passes on a dime the one time he didnt against the magic it most likely cause don said take the shot at the end. so really see him in action he passes nicely now and he can score and get to the line when h wants u know i am knocking on wood when i say this but i would just sit back and reminice about what all u say about him and baron if they leave come back and tear us up then u start blaming the front office so please hold your judgement till we lock em up

by Getturiaf510 on Dec 5, 2007 4:38 PM PST up reply actions

don nelson

says u should punctuate.

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Dec 5, 2007 5:43 PM PST up reply actions

"run-on" sentences

so really see him in action he passes nicely now and he can score and get to the line when h wants u know i am knocking on wood when i say this but i would just sit back and reminice about what all u say about him and baron if they leave come back and tear us up then u start blaming the front office so please hold your judgement till we lock em up

in the words of Ron Burgundy: "That doesn't make sense"

is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?

by Spree4Threee on Dec 7, 2007 9:26 AM PST up reply actions

Who's Fault Is It?

Mulson had all summer to address our needs--rebounding and a back up point guard. I guess they thought Hudson was a partial answer. And really, my point was about Baron's very bad imitation of MJ. Whose fault is that? Nellie's, that's who.

What would you do? We have 30 games coming up in less than 60 games. Oh Vey!

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Dec 4, 2007 8:35 PM PST up reply actions

coaching

Baron Davis has been 3P happy since before Nellie joined the Warriors- it's not like Nellie made him so.

You want your superstar to have swagger and ego- otherwise he wouldn't be a superstar.

This is what our team is- these are the Warriors. Asking them to think twice about shooting is to the Warriors not to be the Warriors anymore.

it's probably not a satisfactory answer, especially if you're looking for someone to "blame"- but thats the reality of our squad. It is why we are great, it is why we sometimes lose.

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero @ Golden State Of Mind on Dec 4, 2007 9:25 PM PST up reply actions

CLAP CLAP

EXACTLY! AGREED TOTALLY!!
BEAUTIFUL POST OZ!

F**K REFS!!!

by faetati on Dec 4, 2007 10:14 PM PST up reply actions

Superstar

Asking Baron to distribute and drive more shouldn't affect his fragile ego as bad as you suggest. He's a star regardless, and the team and the fans know it. There's a reason why certain teams perform well week after week, efficient teams, and other teams run hot and cold all year.

Baron Davis chucking shots does not make the Warriors the Warriors. Him becoming a smarter, more efficient player simply make him and the team better. In the meantime, the Warriors are just an above average club.

The posters aren't telling the entire team to think twice about shooting, just the guy with the lowest FG% of the starting 5(tied with Sjax). His 3 pt% is only 6 points better than Monta's (24% vs 30%) ouch

by MikeJ11 on Dec 5, 2007 1:00 AM PST up reply actions

You tell 'em

Let's also not forget that with out "The Chucker" and "The Guy Who Doesn't Coach" we'd be saying "I know he's supposed to be good and all, but can't Monty get Kevin Durant to stop jacking up bad shots? We're gonna set an untouchable playoff drought with those two leading our team."

Anyways, Baron is excellent at what he does. If he didn't do that, he wouldn't be Baron and he probably wouldn't be any good. Yeah he chucks up some shots sometimes and his discipline could be better, but that's Warriors "No Conscience" ball (I hated that during the playoffs by the way...). If you don't like it go root for the Spurs, or the Jazz (who moved to Utah, where they don't allow music).

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 5, 2007 12:34 PM PST up reply actions

who?

who else was available that would've been better? please don't suggest a former-pintsized-warrior who was our little engine that could on a non playoff team ...

... the backup PG is Jackson, in case people haven't noticed, he's the guy bringing it most set up possessions w/o BD on the floor - not perfect, not conventional, but on this team with this roster the best option available now or in the summer ...

by hardcore on Dec 5, 2007 8:18 PM PST up reply actions

MPG

Interesting diary and I agree with some of it (Baron needs to calm down on the ill-advised, early in the shot clock three) and disagree with other parts (Baron Davis is a ballhog). Minutes per game has to be taken into account to get a clearer picture of some of these numbers. Baron's 19.6 shot attempts makes him look like Kobe Bryant compared to these other point guards, but his attempts aren't that outlandish because he does average 39.8 MPG (good for second in the entire league behind Kevin Martin's 39.9). Tony Parker averages 15.8 attempts but also plays 5 less minute a night than Baron (34.6 MPG). If Parker's shot attempt/per minute were being taken into account, one would see that he would be averaging 18.3 attempts per game if he played the same amount of minutes as Baron. That is only 1.3 less attempts than Baron per game and Baron doesn't have a superstar like Tim Duncan to defer to. Painting this picture as Baron being a ballhog and Iverson the only guy approaching his "ballhoggishness" isn't correct.

by JimBarnett2KevinGarnett on Dec 5, 2007 1:28 AM PST reply actions

like everyone said earlier

it was just a bad shooting night..

he was "chucking" up shots to find some rhythm and he just couldn't find it, so what? We all know that if Baron finds his shooting rhythm, he's goin for 30+..

Stephen Jackson didn't make a shot the whole first half.. if that persisted then i guarantee that he starts "chucking" shots as well, until he finda HIS rhythm (which he did). Anybody notice HIS FG% last night? he shot almost as bad as Baron.

Speaking of "poor shot selection", how bout Monta's 3pt attempt at the end of regulation? i think that qualifies as "poor shot selection". not only was a 3 not necessary, that's not his game- he's a slasher that can shoot 15-18ft jumpers

Without Baron Davis the W's would not be at/above .500, with or without jackson

Baron leads the team in pts and assists, and is third in rebounding. i give a crap about his FG% cuz he does everything else. Yes he shot terrible last night against ORL but he also had 9 assists:3 TO,3 steals, a block and 6/7 FT.

Baron IS the POINT GUARD, right? The "ball handler?" The "play maker?" When he does those things he IS one of the better PGs in the league. When he shoots, he is... not.

Unless he makes them, right?

is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?

by Spree4Threee on Dec 5, 2007 2:01 AM PST reply actions

You Gotta Love Baron

for all he does well. And he certainly is exciting to watch, as are the Dubs. But I don't think that was the point of the diary. Does Baron shoot too much? Does he force up a number of bad shots? Could he be more effective as our team's leader and best player with more prudent shot selection and use of the 24 second clock? I think the answer is YES to all of those questions.

Should or would Nellie do more active coaching of Baron in particular when he starts pressing too much? Should he: yes; would he: probably not.

Should Nellie have called a better play at the end of regulation against the Magic? Obviously, yes. Why he didn't is beyond me. Any ideas?

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Dec 5, 2007 3:49 AM PST reply actions

Dreaming about Maui?

Maybe he called a play for Baron, not realizing that he was on the bench. So Monta kept looking around trying to find Baron, realized the shot clock was running out and threw the ball at the basket.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 5, 2007 12:37 PM PST up reply actions

BD Shooting

Yes, as norcalsoldier pointed out, he does score a lot of game-winning shots like the one in Boston, the one in Seattle and the one against Houston as well as setting up others for game winners (Ellis, Azubuike...) We all know he is an all-star quality player when he's driving to the hoop, creating for others ... He just needs to work on shot selection - he needs to think about the shot he takes more rather than just jacking up threes and he should try and improve his %. Nelson should try and give him less playing time but it's hard for him when Ellis is his only decent back-up PG and he is more of a scorer than a distributor.

by zaki on Dec 5, 2007 3:40 PM PST reply actions

If only Baron would attempt less 3's per game

If you look at his stats, his 2pt FG% is great. Its just the 30% on 3's that make his overall fg% look so bad. So if i was Nellie i'd tell Baron to only take catch and shoot 3's. Other than that, drive to the whole like a madman with his ass on fire.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Dec 5, 2007 5:41 PM PST reply actions

stop the BD bashing plz

can we plz stop bashing the best player on our team? i've seen this thread or similar plenty of times. First of all, stop comparing him to Nash, Parker, Williams - none of those guys is the premiere scoring threat on his team, THEY CAN AFFORD TO BE SELECTIVE. Compare Barons stats to Gilbert Arenas, no ones gonna say that Agent Zero is a bad shooter, but because he is the best scorer on his team he's the one that takes the tough shots and so his shooting % suffers. The Warriors style of play and Baron's status as the best scorer on the team contribute to a low shooting %. Personally, I don't even care what his shooting % is. Bottom line: We're winning and if you've been watching you know that BD is leadin us.

arguing on the internet is like runnin in the special olympics . . . even if you win you're still retarded

by BoomRich on Dec 6, 2007 2:24 PM PST reply actions

Come On!

Every time someone post something that is the least bit critical, even if analytically precise, people complain about "hating" on that player and so on. I thought this post was very reasonable and most of the comments were pertainent while being somewhat constructively critical. Why shouldn't we expect even Baron and Nellie to still be learning from mistakes or bad habits. Is that too much to ask?

The Commish thinks not even tho he may rely on hyperpole when true logic and insight would prevail.

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Dec 6, 2007 10:00 PM PST up reply actions

wow..

didnt see this post before i wrote but props. i mirror ur feelings

2007 mvp...mark blount

by RC650 on Dec 7, 2007 6:20 PM PST up reply actions

So its Baron's Fault?

It cost them the game last night.

Jax: 8-21, 3-10 3pt,
Harrington: 4-17, 2-9 3pt
Baron: 6-23, 1-8 3pt

Looks to me like this loss was a team effort.. Can't just pin it on Baron. would have been worse if it weren't for Ellis hittin

is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?

by Spree4Threee on Dec 7, 2007 9:15 AM PST reply actions

YEAH!

BARON'S HORRIBLE!

come on guys...we all know baron's the teams most dynamic player. he does take poor shots, but he isn't stephan marberry. he hustles on both ends, works hard on the glass, is a good defender that can steal, DISTRIBUTES, gives it to the hot hand, and sticks up for his teammates. it's very true those shooting numbers are not the same as nash and williams but lets not forget those guys aren't expected to be the leading scorer every night. baron's the go-to guy and is expected to, at least in part, carry the teams scoring. the other guys mentioned have, in williams case boozer and nash's case any of the other starters, who can score night in night out. really for the warriors it seems to be davis and someone else every night (although jax has seriously stepped it up).

2007 mvp...mark blount

by RC650 on Dec 7, 2007 6:12 PM PST reply actions