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Around SBN: Lost

RECAP: Warriors 117, Magic 123 - A Wise Man Once Said, "D'oh."

Man. As a proud resident of Warriors Nation I can say that I've experienced all kinds of losses. I've seen the "never even close to winning" games (more than my fair share, I'd like to say), the "blown lead" games, and let's not forget our classic, "losing at a buzzer beater" game.

Tonight's game was the kind of loss that is always hardest for me to digest. To watch the Warriors spring back from a dismal first half and sprinkle some of that "We Believe" magic to get them back on top; only to end up giving it up in a mediocre overtime... well those are the games where you don't even want to talk to anyone afterwards. You just want to go to bed and try not to think about what could have been.

Lucky for me I've got tonight's recap. So instead of quietly meditating on the events that caused tonight's rollercoaster ride to come to a screeching halt, I get to share my frustrations with all of you. Misery loves company, eh?!

Open Thread (200+ Comments)

76076194RW014_WARRIORS_MAGIC

Monumental effort in the 2nd half.

Boxscore

Okay, before I get too deep into analysis, let me just stop and say that I am truly proud of the Warriors. They just came off an amazing 6 game run that even included a few NBA elites. In the past 7 games (yes I'm including tonight's game) we've seen the Warriors do some amazing things that has shown the hoops world (including many of us) that the "We Believe" movement was in fact not a fluke. So if you sense me getting too bitter, trust me, it has to do with the fact that I am writing this in the wake of a missed win that I really wanted. It's just hard to see them try to hard to get within reach of the W only to watch it lightly sift away through their fingers like so many fine grains of sand. (And the winner for the Pulitzer Prize in the category of Blogging is...)

Now I'm ashamed to say it, but I had counted us out of this one after the first half. While Al and the Warriors as a whole did a tremendous job of containing Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis offensively, they simply couldn't be everywhere at once. As a result, Jameer Nelson, Keith Bogans, and select others that we did not initially consider concerning before the game started... um, became concerns. (Here's that Pulitzer back.)

It was the standard tale of the Warrior Killer in the first half, except there were about 3 of them. In the meanwhile, the Warriors were missing their takes to the rim and shot after shot after shot. When the dust cleared and the halftime buzzer went off, I felt fortunate that we were able to head back to our locker room down by single digits.

Okay, this is the part where I drool over Howard for a bit. As well as we stopped him on offense (anything under 20 from him and I consider us defending him well), I can't believe how big this guy is going to be in the league. He's a rebounding machine and turned out 7 swats against us tonight. (Some of them were pretty embarrassing.) In the first half, it felt like our boys were driving into the lane and trying to shoot over Redwoods. It was frustrating to watch, but watching his potency down low made me less upset about the Warriors being behind.

Magic Warriors Basketball

Seriously, this guy is no joke.

Luckily, my lack of confidence in the Dubs was sorely misplaced because they came out with a hell of a second half. Let's drop some points about the game.

- Jackson was a huge catalyst with his shooting, netting 25 points without even dropping a bucket in the first half. Seeing is believing. When this guy nails a few shots and gets his confidence up a little; feed him the ball. Jackson truly kept us in the game offensively and was a huge part of our resurgence.

- Monta has a well rounded game overall. I'm proud to say that this is no longer a rare event for him. He's found his stride and is now looking to elevate his game further. Tonight he nearly put down a triple-double (missing it by 3 dimes) with a monster 12 boards, 7 of them offensive! He may look small out there, but speed goes a long way in his hands. Really wish that he had hit that buzzer shot but that's more the bitterness of the loss talking. Great game overall for Ellis.

- I know without the call we may not have even gone to overtime but shame on the ref for giving Howard that T in the crucial seconds of the game. It should say something when fans of the opposing team call a crucial foul in their favor for being ticky-tacky. It was clear to me that he was simply getting down on himself for blowing the previous dunk.

- Foyle swatted Baron. I'll assume an apology card is in the mail.

- Props to Beans for yet another double-double and some very aggressive boards (especially considering who you were pulling those over!) Further props for having a slammin' hot girlfriend. All that hair gel is starting to make sense.

- 14 players overall (7 from each team) scored in double digits. That's gotta be some sort of record.

- Jameer Nelson wins the Luther Head award for sure, missing a triple double by 2 boards.

- In a game where I would bet money that we would have lost on the boards we crashed the glass like nobody's business. When we couldn't get a hand on it, we tipped it wisely in the right direction. Our ability to gather rodmans were perhaps the most surprising thing I saw tonight. In the end, we ended up tying the Magic on boards (54-54) with more offensives in our corner.

- The Oracle was ripping tonight. You wouldn't have guessed this was a Monday game in a million years. Props to those of you that were out there.

All said and done, we lost a very hard fought battle tonight. Yes, there are a number of things that we could have gotten done in order to get this win, but the Warriors didn't disappoint.

Unless you count the whole losing thing.

wonder

I must give a huge nod to Monta for almost notching a triple double tonight but at the end of the day, Jackson was keeping us in this. His long shots and 3 point plays in the 2nd half are what finally got us the lead and helped the Warriors rally into overtime.

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hell of a game
the crowd had great energy, especially in the 4th. i was pretty disappointed only seeing foyle get so much playing time (not to mention foyle meant d12 wasnt in the game). im still questioning monta's decision to take the 3 at the buzzer though. 3s arent exactly his game, and had he drove a bit toward the basket, and at least made it around a 15-18ft jumper, it would have greatly increased his chances. its alright, the magic arent in the top 3 in wins for nothing. next, those milwuakee bucks, and the yi movement

by Thoang77 on Dec 4, 2007 12:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ellis
There's no doubt that this was a winnable game.  Orlando one of the teams that expose the warriors weakness up front.  Even MP could have contained Hedo Turgoklu.  

Monta's a one-man fast break, instant offense, and rising star, but he needs to learn how to play some "D" and work on his half-court game.  On the last play in overtime, his job shouldn't be to take the last shot.  Stick Barnes in the corner, and let Jackson & Al be there for kickouts. With Baron out of the game, and Monta running the show, why even call a set play?  

Oh yea, and when Jackson wants the ball, give it to him.

by BingBluNT on Dec 4, 2007 12:34 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

well
except in OT

by disguy on Dec 4, 2007 10:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Final Seconds....
The one thing I noticed about Monta Ellis is when he gets the ball on the last possession either before the half or end of regulation; he dribbles the ball to the wing often, which limits his offensive abilities and options. In addition, it does not space out the floor for his teammates. Last night was evident on Monta's bad habits in the closing seconds when he dribbled to the right wing and Jax was at the corner baseline. Ellis was so predictable on where he was going or trying to go with the ball. And the Defense was reading him and making the adjustments necessary to help guard him if he did try to penetrate.

I remember it was either the Houston or Seattle game when Monta had the ball again in his hands before the half; but this time he dribbled all the way to the left corner 3, where Bruce Bowen hot spot is. He took a horrible shot again, but it didn't seem like a big deal at the time because we were killing our opponents. But I want to see him value each posession especially on the last shot.

I am not bashing on Ellis by any means; I just question his decision-making on the final seconds. I would rather prefer him to start from the top of the key and attack the middle. He has so many options to attack the middle by utilizing his quickness to get into the paint. This will force help defenders to commit and spread the floor for his shooters to get a good look at the bucket. Also, he does not have to be Jordan or the hero and make the final shot; sometimes the best play is a pass. Baron displayed this in Philly when he found an open Special-K to win the game. This separates a good player from a great player in the NBA. With more experience and growth under his belt; I am confident Ellis will learn and understand this crunch time situation better.

by DreDizz on Dec 4, 2007 12:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

it hurts
real bad when baron is not in the game. watching the overtime period without boom was painful. nobody could create enough offense for themselves or anybody else. also, it woulda been nice to have baron take the last shot of the game in regulation, i really thought monta shoulda driven to the basket to dish out or draw a foul, not a deep 3 pointer.

by lowchi on Dec 4, 2007 2:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Excuses!!!
After such a great stretch of games I can't help but make some excuses for the Dubs on a night like tonight.  First, playing in the back end of a back-to-back Baron is going to be tired, and sometimes his play will suffer.  I can understand and accept that, as long as he stays healthy.  The 3 point shooting is a result of the team having tired legs, and for a team like the Dubs, that depends on jump shooters, that spells trouble.  A LONG and successful road trip followed bay a quick turnaround like the last few days, appears to have caught up to them.  However the Dubs now get to stay home for a few days and rest up with some days off in between games. Also, Diddy fouled out as a result of his tired defense in the first half.

ENOUGH EXCUSES FOR YOU!?!?

Considering all these troubles, the Dubs still managed to hang with maybe the best team in the east, and only came one missed buzzer beater away from securing the win.  I am definitely very happy with their play, and believe that the next two games are very winnable.

GO DUBS!!!
OakFoSho

by Sneaky275 on Dec 4, 2007 2:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Things I would have liked to see:
1. Harrington as Power Forward
Going small to start is fine; when Harrington his hitting 3P's that lineup is pretty much unguardable. When he's not stroking it from deep, however, he's just a liablility on the perimeter by chucking it. Leaning on Howard all night isn't gonna help his J either.

Solution? Play him next to Biedrins, let Biedrins take a turn on him. There is more than one way to counter size; it does not always have to be more 3P shooting.

Biedrins was effective on the glass (15 rebs) and as a  source of cheap buckets that we needed. When we get points in the paint, we win. When we depend on the 3p, its a murkier question.

Playing Harrington next to Biedrins means Lewis gaurds Harrington. Plant Al in the post and let him go to work on Lewis, who cannot guard him (or anyone, really). He's closer to the bucket and it's a much higher percentage play than stone cold 3's.

2. The Final Play: Why Not Jack?
Asking Ellis to run the offense is just too much (I'd say futile, really). With 17 secs or whatever, we could have run anything we wanted to.

What we should have done was have jack in bound the ball, then immediately run along the baseline to the near corner. When the shotclock hits 12, we should have run him thru a pick in the key to set up position on the far side, swinging the ball from Monta to Azubuike to make the entry pass (given azubuike's 40% 3P, they can't sag as much). In any case, Azubuike enters to Jack IN THE POST and cuts through, at 6 seconds Jack can begin to make his move from the post or elbow area.

As Doug Collins on TNT pointed out...when a talented wing player gets the ball on the elbow, he is unstoppable.

The converse, however, is even more true: the farther from the basket, the easier it is to stop, especially when a bonehead young player decides to chuck it and bail out the defense. I could have defended Monta on the play just by sitting down cross legged at the arc and lettin him throw up the not-even-a-brick.

Poor choice of play call and/or execution on the crucial final play. Absolutely no excuse to be taking a 30 footer with the talents on our roster.

That's all for now. I can't fault the effort, but I am unimpressed with the decision making.

Jack missing free throws is disconcerting as well, there is no explanation. Biedrins outshot him.

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Dec 4, 2007 3:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think
they fed Jackson in the post four times in OT and it led to only 1 make and 3 turnovers.    Jackson made turkoglu look like a first team defender with that one.  

Monta had a great overall game and missed the last shot.  He's young and carried the team with his boards(7 offensive) steals(5 or 6) and assists(7), not to mention he was the only one scoring in the first half.  On the final shot, looked like Monta picked up on some of Baron's habits, because he is normally a drive first player.

And no doubt, if you were guarding Monta on that play, you would've been burned badly and the W's would've had a nice win to celebrate.

by MikeJ11 on Dec 4, 2007 1:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

it was a good game
even though we took the L.

I'm really impressed with the Orlando Magic, and I can see why they have the best road record in the league.  Those guys are straight cold-blooded ASSASSINS.  It felt like everytime the Roaracle started getting crazy, Rashard or Jameer Nelson would silence the crowd on their very next possession and bury a contested shot, every single time we started to gain some momentum.

The game had a playoff-like atmosphere, up until over-time.  As a fan, the craziest moment of the year so far was when we took the lead in the fourth.  And it was followed by one of the most disappointing, when Monta missed one of his free throws and then made that mental mistake at the end of regulation.  When he put that shot up I just knew we were gonna lose the game with Baron on the bench and 5 more minutes to play.

Overall, I still believe the Warriors will keep playing at a high level.  This was a game where we couldn't buy a bucket (38%fg), Baron and Harrington had miserable shooting nights, and still we were right there with the lead at the end.  

by jlagace on Dec 4, 2007 7:44 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Note to Nelly
Its about time to ease the throttle on Ol' BD.  He was more of a negative against orlando than a positive, due largely to the extensive minutes he's geting this year.  To me, this team seems like it could manage okay against the mid to lower level teams w/o him on the floor every minute.

He was tired in the early going and we all could tell.  He wasn't D'ing his man(tired).  He was short hoppin' his layups(tired).  He was short on all his jumpers(tired).

If he had the energy to stick to Jameer Nelson, then maybe he wouldn't have been burnt so bad that he would feel the need to go bad baron and force circus shots, then foul jameer out of frustration.  And when BD's frustrated on O, he fouls like year 1 AB.  I counted 2 frustration fouls in the 1st quarter.  Lose those and BD is handlin' the rock in OT.

How many TO's in OT again?

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Dec 4, 2007 9:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I feel your frustration
Baron has earned the right to play himself out of slumps, but last night's efforts were not an example of leadership.  He was more concerned with shooting himself back instead of managing the game and feeding the hot hand.  It was extremely frustrating and hopefully Nelson can show Baron how easy it would have been for him to secure the win for us multiple times.

by eshock on Dec 4, 2007 9:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Was a good game
The Magic have been been playing great basketball lately so I'm not as worried about this loss.  After a bad first half which everyone looked slow and tired, Dubs fought back into it and put themselves in a situation to win it at the end.  Poor execution in the final minutes did us in, along with ticky tack foul calls from the refs.  I mean why do other teams get to be overly physical with us but we get whistled for the fouls? Overall, not that disappointed considering we started 0-6.  We'll bounce back the next game against the bucks.  The video montage of Foyle and the standing ovation before the game was a nice gesture.

by nautica on Dec 4, 2007 9:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Horrible strategy at the end lost this game...
I usually love Nellie's coaching but tonight I couldn't believe how he blew it. He had TWO opportunities at the end to seal the victory and NEITHER ONE involved putting the clearly struggling warriors into overtime without their number one playmaker Baron Davis.

With 17 seconds left the warriors were up by one. They needed to give the ball to their best free-throw shooter Troy Hudson. Unfortunately this is where you really miss Jasikevicius, but I know Hudson could have kept the lead at three forcing the magic to attempt a harder shot.

And the warriors didn't even run a play at the end of regulation! They basically just let Monta run the clock down and heave one up at the last second from like 25 feet. While I completely see the logic behind not letting the Magic get another opportunity you can have your cake and eat it too. They should have run a play that used up the clock and given an open look to a high percentage shooter.

Totally winnable game. Most frustrating loss of the season so far.

by hayhehes on Dec 4, 2007 9:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

No one's said that what doesn't kill you
only makes you stronger.  The Warriors, led by Monta, Andris, Matt and Al, battled harder than I've ever seen from them.  The problem with winning this game is that the 2nd tier was at such a high level, the normal go-to guys should have managed the game better.  
Bottom line: Look at well we overcame our deficiencies...  Rebounding, free throw shooting, half court offense.  We did many incredible things to hang with an incredible Orlando team.  They were not going to be denied tonight.  They played their A game and its more intense than the West's elite right now.  Can they sustain?  Do we belong?  The NBA has never been more competitive.  If only, the refs will not distort the Herculean efforts of the players and coaches.

by eshock on Dec 4, 2007 9:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

at least it's early
There's a lot of things - good and bad - for the team to take away from this one.  Glad it's the beginning of December.  If this were late February or March it would impact us a lot worse.  

Loved the way we battled back, though.  

by ViveAirFrance on Dec 4, 2007 10:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Just feel sorry for the Bucks
Here comes the W'S!!!
It's Great Time Out at the O in the O.

by GSWof Oaktown on Dec 4, 2007 10:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Quick points
First, it's becoming painfully obvious that Nellie's overplaying of BD is now a real problem, as shown by BD's poor game last night.  (And when he gets tired -- as he did early last night -- BD ironically insists on trying to take the game over, virtually always failing.)  We need to keep BD's minutes to under 36 every game.  This should be a bright line rule.

Second, Monta played great -- till crunch time.  His "point" play at the end, though, remains weak, as reflected in that terrible final possession in regulation.  No excuses for that, since he had a lot of options and still painted himself into a corner.  As well as Monta's played of late, he can't be great until he learns how to finish a game.  Period.  End of story.  

Finally, I agree that the Technical on Howard was ticky-tack, but it's black and white in the rule book -- and there's no room for "discretion" on the call.  Sort of like spiking the ball after a big -- but non-scoring -- play in football.

Now, let's see how the guys bounce back tomorrow night.

by johnl on Dec 4, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

It was Monta's fault
I guarantee you that was a "play" they all agreed on. Let Monta run the clock down and shoot a three. It was a crap play, but it was a play nonetheless.

Thats why I say it wasn't Monta's fault, it was Nellie's, he should have drawn up a better play out of the huddle.

by hayhehes on Dec 4, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed
But i get nervous with Monta handing the ball, especially in these situations just because we've seen him get picked several times trying to go one one one with the time winding down. His speed alone won't get him to the hoop. He needs to i 1) protect the ball 2) get his man off balance the ways that Baron does (not that many can, but still), by using some hestitations, or crossovers or headfakes or some sort of jook move instead of running in a straight line (as evidenced by the closely missed layup towards teh end where Jameer Nelson knew exactly where he was going and got there without getting a blocking charge). Monta is a scorer, but imagine what he could do if he could actually dribble with his left hand.

by dj fuzzylogic on Dec 4, 2007 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Monta should have taken it to the rack
at the end of regulation. As they went back to the bench after he missed I thought I caught a glimpse of Baron saying something to Monta about just that. Monta didn't look to happy with Baron's words but if that's indeed what they were talking about then Baron is right. Drive to the rack and dish out for the open shot, that's what the PG is for!
-Bobby Bluechip http://fantasysportsmatrix.com/user/bobbybluechip

by BobbyBluechip on Dec 4, 2007 11:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

on the 1st dec home gm warriors gave to me..
It was evident that Turgobooooo was trying to get under S-Jax skin.. I mostly saw  that guy throw numerous elbows push off in defense hand check and i think he took some kids churro in the first row..Is it requirred that ref's that come to the Oracle have to make bad calls.. watching the replay on the jumbo screen of where Beans put his hands up slid to the side and did not make any contact on Rashard Lewis just set me into a drunken sailor when Orlando got another free trip to the free throw line. Monte showed his youth in deciding to heave a bad shot at the end of the regulation. Baron is are go to go and in that situation he is going to the basket and going to get foul or make the shot .. Warriors overall great performance and we showed that we can run with prob the best overall team in the East..It was a early xmas president to watch the game last night.. see you guys wednesday..  

by ACTIONJACK1 on Dec 4, 2007 12:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oh well
it was a great effort by the Warriors, they actually somewhat contained Howard and Lewis, but then Jameer Nelson and Keith Bogan, out of nowhere, had hot shooting night and seemed like they couldn't miss. I was surprised they could play the Magic to overtime.
The last possession in regulation was pretty disappointing though, I thought for sure the ball was going to go to Jackson's hands or Monta drive to the hoop. It was a great game nonetheless.

by semarubaka on Dec 4, 2007 12:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

even
Even Rashard Lewis (notoriously perimeter oriented) took it to the rack and drew a foul.

Ellis is a vastly superior slasher yet decided to imitate....JJ Reddick?

That was not the scripted play: dribble out the clock and shoot a 30 footer. Naw.

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Dec 4, 2007 12:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

FYI
Going back to the bench, Baron looked like he got on Monta for the bad decision, to which Monta responded with a look that said, "Yo, get out of my face." Monta then turned his back on Baron on his way to finding a seat.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/DimeMagazine/2007/12/04/Come_Shoot_With_Me

by highflya on Dec 4, 2007 1:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

hrm
Credence to the rumor that the Warriors are not 100% satisfied with his attitude...?

24 > 23

WE NEED A BACKUP POINT GUARD

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Dec 4, 2007 2:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

caught that too
during the broadcast. couldn't quite tell what baron was saying since it was from behind his head, but monta through his arms out like "whatever man" and sat down. at that moment, baron turned towards the camera and shook his head. def. looked like some mmiscommunication as far as the play goes though im surprised monta would shrug off what baron had to say like that.

by dj fuzzylogic on Dec 4, 2007 2:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well
To me, I am not worried about this game at all. It will be a W later on in the year. The Warriors just needed that little  extra push. Plus, seeing Beidrin's girlfriend for the first time helped.

by jtoj on Dec 4, 2007 3:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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