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Debunking the Fisher myth

The beginning of this is something I posted over at the JustBBall message boards when I read that the Lakers were thinking about bringing in Derek Fisher, possibly using their MLE on him. I felt like bringing up some of these observations about Fisher, because I think some people are under a grave misconception about how good of a player he really is.

Derek Fisher is by all accounts a very classy and very kind guy, who's gone through a real rough time. That said, from a basketball standpoint, it's worth keeping in mind that the Warriors traded him to Utah because he simply wasn't that good. He has a good spot up three point shot, and can finish under the basket, but isn't very skilled with the ball, and last year, shot a terrible percentage from the field. Because he exuded the bluecollar ethic that Utah fans so love, and because of his inspirational performance in the playoffs, I think people are either reluctant to mention his basketball shortcomings, or simply don't realize. Last year for the Jazz, he started 61 games for them, and scored 10 points per, with three assists.

Important to note, though, is that he shot a mere .382 from the field, and only .308 on threes, which is supposed to be his strength. In fact, his career shooting percentage in 11 years is a shade under .400.

While he's lauded for his defense, he stands only six foot one, and makes a lot of mistakes gambling on steals and flopping for calls. He was praised for his role in beating Golden State in game two of the playoffs last year, and certainly he was the gamechanging factor, but that isolated performance shouldn't trick anyone into thinking that at 32 he's a five year MLE player. If he and Baron Davis went at it, Davis would prevail 9 times out of 10. The fact that Davis had been logging heavy, draining minutes the entire postseason while Fisher had arrived during the third quarter completely rested was never addressed, but I tend to think that may have played as much of a role in the outcome of that game as anything.

Derek Fisher is a great guy, a great teammate, and a great father. But, in all honesty, he isn't, and never has been, a great point guard.

The media's fascination with Fisher is understandable. I noticed its origins years before his daughter's tragic condition became public knowledge. It began to swirl about when Fisher hit the .4 second shot to beat San Antonio in the playoffs, the shot some people say should never, and could never have been. With every three pointer he hit, the reputation gre stronger. "Clutch. Veteran. Competitor." Very familiar lines to NBA fans, all adjectives you'll often hear attributed to players that are lauded, despite the numbers just not adding up.


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Nice piece! I gave it a plug on Ballhype.
- Atma Brother #1


Ballhype - Debunking the Fisher myth

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Thank you!!!!!!
Very well-written piece, Zack Vank.

I want to smash my head against a wall when I hear people musing about reacquiring Fish. We got rid of him because he was an old, slow, mediocre ballhog. He's now an older, slower, more mediocre ballhog.

I would love to see the Lakers blow their MLE on him. Basically, he's got the self-confidence of Kobe backed by the talent of Cabbages.

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 10, 2007 6:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He was...
an anchor to our offense. Everything just stopped when he had the ball. Anyone who talks about bringing Fish back knows very little about the sport. I would love to see the Lakers slip up and sign him to a big contract.
This is my team There are many like it But this one is mine. My team, without me is useless. Without my team, I am useless

by BlueNgoldBlood on Jul 10, 2007 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
BD, Belinelli, and Monta can abuse him and the Lakers for the next few years.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 10, 2007 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

seriously...
i always saw Fisher as that Warrior killer who, once we had him was the terrible player I never wanted him to be, couldn't drain a clutch 3 (or 2 for that matter) to save his life, or be consistent, and then would do somewhat consistent damage elsewhere once we got rid of him, or come back and ruin our chance at something else...pretty much like every player we give up. i was hoping that wouldn't be what Murphleavy would turn into, a complete waste of cap space on our team but a thorn in our side elsewhere...but glad for our sake he or they didn't turn out to be much of anything, just still pisses me off they didn't do anything while they were on our squad
...never a fairweather fan...

by BayBoyNLA on Jul 10, 2007 6:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well written
It's true, Derek Fisher is very good at looking like a great basketball player; he chucks up crucial shots with no hesitation, he gets real low on defense and looks like he's playing it exactly how the coaches want them to, etc etc.  But when it comes down to it, he's just not a very good shooter anymore and he's not very quick on defense either.

Now believe me, he'd be a great backup somewhere and I'm sure he could teach the young PG's of the league a thing or two, but him getting the full MLE would just be straight up hilarious (unless it was with GSW).

by jlagace on Jul 10, 2007 6:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Fish
I dont think hes worth a full MLE but on the other hand i think he can be a very valuable player to any playoff team coming off the bench for 15 mins a game.  Hes fearless in taking clutch shots, great leadership qualities, and his greatest attribute of all, one of the top floppers in the NBA. Everytime I see him get touched it seems like hes someone just smashed a sledgehammer to his head.  I couldnt stand the guy on the Lakers, and I couldnt stand to watch him on the jazz.  He is just an annoying player that can sometimes get into the other teams heads.

by Dubs4Life on Jul 10, 2007 8:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You see...
...the thing is, I don't have any evidence that he brings great leadership qualities to a team. I know that when the Lakers played the Pistons, he apparently confronted Phil Jackson in the bathroom about starting instead of Gary Payton, and I know that he wasn't satisfied as a bench player here in Golden State, despite the fact that the players ahead of him (Davis and Richardson) were so clearly superior to him that form him to want either of their jobs would be laughable. Furthermore, he has terrible shot selection. For all the talk about "locker room presence," there's also in game presence, an area in which Fisher is sorely lacking. It's true that he's fearless in taking shots - and he hits them at a far below average rate for an NBA guard with a supposed reputation as a shooter.

Flopping is indeed the only thing he's great at, and unfortunately, as his lateral quickness diminishes with age, you can expect the refs to start calling the block.

by Zack Vank on Jul 10, 2007 8:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just read...
...that the Lakers are about to sign Fisher.

More power to them.

by Zack Vank on Jul 10, 2007 8:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

also,
I'm not sure, but he's also the President of the NBAPA, so maybe that makes him well liked among other players?
Ronald Reagan was a jerk.

by Nooob on Jul 10, 2007 9:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

there are some players
who just fit better on some teams ... similar to Barnes at GSW, would he be able to do what he did last year on another team with another coach/style? Fish has an added quality that hasn't been mentioned and makes him a fit in LA, he can play with Kobe. He also is the kind of guy Jackson can use effectively in his "triangle" offense whereas Monty ... well, let's not go there ... lastly, Utah was not glad to see him go, a sign he was valued by Sloan, and Fish is probably losing money in all this so it seems pretty legit about his daughter

by hardcore on Jul 10, 2007 9:14 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Derek Fisher did crap Game 2
He hurt the team more than he helped them, and I know, because I watched him specifically crap up the court. He hit like what, 1 three? I think the Jazz would've beaten the Warriors even more handily without him.

I honestly liked him when he was on the Warriors, but I know now that he won't help us. Too many missed shots, and waaay too many missed layups. However, he did hit his freethrow, and DAMN were those rainbow arcs pretty.

Tony aka Drawlz600 is AWESOME!!!!

by Zorgon on Jul 10, 2007 9:21 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mat Barnes...
...did have a breakout year, and the coaching staff was a big part of that. But he had a breakout year at age 26. To bring Derek Fisher back to the Lakers, when Kobe has already been bemoaning the fact that he needs another star player there is a grave misstep, I feel. Derek Fisher's numbers last year were inferior to those of Lakers whipping boy Smush Parker. I have a feeling that perception of reliability is coming into play here, when a 33 year old point guard coming off catastrophic lows in shooting percentages who was never a dynamic star to begin with is anything but a reliable bet.

Off the top of my head, I'd sooner try to get Earl Boykins, Steve Blake, Jarvis Crittenton, Jason Hart, Brevin Knight, Earl Watson... any of these guys is a better option at this point than Derek Fisher.

by Zack Vank on Jul 10, 2007 9:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice diary
I agree Fish seems like a decent enough guy, but the national media has really distorted his hoops skills. He's simply not good enough to start in this league and vastly overrates his own abilities. Because of his inflated ego he pouts a little- he asked Mullin and company for a buyout a few times because he wanted to be a starter. His flopping battle with Ginobili in the conference finals was so silly and not the least bit classy when he stared down Manu. Both guys were ruining hoops.

Hoops-wise I absolutely hate the way he plays. He sucks the life out of the building  with his terrible court vision, attempts to be like Kobe, flopping (although he oddly didn't do much of that with the Warriors), and matador D against quicker players.

It's funny how people seem to forget he had a bad past season with the Jazz. If I were a team I really, really wouldn't use any money on him unless you plan to use him for 0.4 seconds in the playoffs.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 10, 2007 10:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

word life
he's seems like he'll be a good fit for the Lakers just cuz he won't have the ball in his hands and all they'll really ask him to do, like they did before, is take open jumpers. he's pretty terrible at creating for others; if he gets in the lane he's got one plan which is driving left for a layup. he's a horrible shooter off the dribble, too. but hope all is well with his family otherwise.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 10, 2007 10:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

why do the lakers need another point guard
theyve already got farmar, parker (maybe), javaris crittenton, and sun yue (maybe). not counting the maybes thats still already 3 point guards that are young and need playing time to develop. but whatever i dont like the lakers so if they want to stifle the development of farmar and crittenton for a mediocre guard then thats fine by me

by llamalimbo1 on Jul 10, 2007 12:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

just a thought
they are among the teams interested in KG, meaning one or more of their young talents might be moved and Fish is an obvious interest for them

by hardcore on Jul 10, 2007 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

could be...
hope not...
This is my team There are many like it But this one is mine. My team, without me is useless. Without my team, I am useless

by BlueNgoldBlood on Jul 10, 2007 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lakers
They cut Smush Parker, but you're forgetting Sasha Vujacic.  Yup, they currently have 4 point guards and with Derek Fisher that's their 5th.  

They had 5 point guards last year too: Smush, Farmar, Vujacic, Shammond Williams, Aaron McKie.

They like their scrub point guards like we like our scrub big men: useless and warming the bench.

by jlagace on Jul 11, 2007 3:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He ain't worth the MLE, but he is worth a look
Reading how Fisher is such crap,  I started questioning my own mind because I vividly remember Fisher killing me in games 4 and 5 down the stretch. So I looked it up:

GAME 4

Fisher Jump Shot: Made (16 PTS)
Assist: Williams (11 AST) 4:07
[UTA 93-88]

Fisher 3pt Shot: Made (19 PTS)
Assist: Williams (12 AST) 2:16
[UTA 100-93]
http://www.nba.com/games/20070513/UTAGSW/playbyplay.html

These were HUGE in the course of the game and hella demoralizing as I remember.

Even worse was game 5. The Warriors played the best defense I have ever seen them play but f ing fisher kept them in the game. Meanwhile the Warriors just could not hit a shot.

11:40
[UTA 80-73] Fisher 3pt Shot: Made (12 PTS)
Assist: Okur (2 AST)

9:41
[UTA 83-78] Fisher 3pt Shot: Made (15 PTS)
Assist: Williams (5 AST)

5:45
[UTA 88-83] Fisher 3pt Shot: Made (18 PTS)
Assist: Williams (6 AST)

BESIDES A KIRILENKO TIP IN THESE ARE THE ONLY POINTS THE JAZZ SCORED IN THE FOURTH QUARTER UNTIL IT WAS FRETHROW TIME.  That dude kept them in the game single handedly!

http://www.nba.com/games/20070515/GSWUTA/playbyplay.html

Overall he had a solid last two games.

http://www.nba.com/games/20070513/UTAGSW/boxscore.html
D.Fisher  G 40:30 6-11 2-3 7-7 21

http://www.nba.com/games/20070515/GSWUTA/boxscore.html
D.Fisher  G 29:34 7-10 4-5 2-2  20pts

SO yeah I may have wasted 20 minutes putting this together, but I felt the need to remind you of what a son of bitch Derek Fisher was in that series. For a one year veteran minimum I wouldn't mind seeing that dude come back at all. He IS a clutch shooter, and at least in game 5 he would have helped the warriors out alot.

by steezelle on Jul 10, 2007 3:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i agree 100%
the team was unwatchable to me when fisher was our starting pg when baron was hurt.  i wanted to trade him then and was extremely happy when the bum was out.  nice guy, but he just can't handle it and shoots way too many threes and misses too many.

by travisl212 on Jul 10, 2007 6:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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