Yi Movement Still Alive?

by protac6 on Jul 14, 2007 1:56 PM PDT Comment 64 comments

I was lookin through Ballhype today then I wanted to read another article about our old friend Yi who didn't like Milwaukee. The first part of the article explained that the Milwaukee owners just don't wana deal with all this "Yi-Unsatisfaction" and that sooner or later their gonna trade him.

Quoted Text

Since Yi either wants to get traded or enter the 2008 draft,the Bucks wouldn't want to lose this good young talent for nothing, I saw this one coming:

Quoted Text

So what do you guys think? Go for a Yi trade probably consisting of Wright and a S/T and not losing most of our core? Or stick with pursuing on getting KG at the cost of some promising futures?

Heres the link to the whole thing:

http://winningtheturnoverbattle.blogspot.com/2007/07/bucks-beware.html

(Sorry if this post is a bit like a KG thread)

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

werd

I'd probably be willing to swap Wright + S/T Pietrus for Yi. Not much more though.

http://westcoastbiased.blogspot.com

by coma on Jul 14, 2007 2:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

wait - if bucks do not want to lose him outright

why should mullin offer the bucks anything close to equal value? he should start with a trade offer of pob and pietrus(s/t) or less. see what kind of better offers are tendered before offering too much!

shouldn't a vet who can play, and a project, should be more than enough value for a project that does not want to play for them? especially when the bucks may ultimately lose the rights to this player because they were just plain stubborn on draft night.

by stedanko on Jul 15, 2007 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

IF Yi stays in China and takes NO money

He can re-enter the NBA 2008 Draft.

by streetballer on Jul 19, 2007 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure Yi would help

us any more than Wright at this point--his Summer League performance has been entirely uninspiring. What Yi provides us, I think, is somewhere between "healthy Zarko Cabarkaba" and "nothing at all"...

by WhatWouldTerryCummingsDo on Jul 14, 2007 2:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

Sorry bout the quoting, cant seem to get it right=\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbZpBlsu2s "Touch The Sky"

by protac6 on Jul 14, 2007 2:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

even though we haven't seen wright

what we've seen of yi is worse. he's definitely nba worthy, but didn't really see anything that's going to distinguish him as a star - especially if he's 22 like most ppl believe.

by the evil monkey on Jul 14, 2007 3:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

WHY

would we trade one pick for another? What just because YI went 6 and WRIGHT went 8? Both WRIGHT and YI were speculated to go as high as 3, but I think YI's was based more on hype than fiction! I like the possibility of getting YI, but not if it means having to trade WRIGHT. It's almost pointless to trade for YI who is tall and lanky like WRIGHT, but can shoot. We don't need a big that can shoot. We need one that will play some D and I think WRIGHT fits the bill better than YI.

"GO BIG or GO HOME!!!"

by scottiepimppen on Jul 14, 2007 3:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

based more on hype then fiction?

you mean fact?

by Proof on Jul 14, 2007 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OOPS

My bad...you're right, I meant FACT! Thanks!

"GO BIG or GO HOME!!!"

by scottiepimppen on Jul 15, 2007 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

no problem

by Proof on Jul 15, 2007 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shut

up about Yi, let him roam with the cows in Wisconsin.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Jul 14, 2007 3:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

werd

Don't tell people to shut up about Yi. They can post whatever the hell they want. In fact, this is the first Yi thread we've had in a while. Just because you don't like the prospect of him coming here doesn't mean that other people can't.

http://westcoastbiased.blogspot.com

by coma on Jul 14, 2007 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

delicious irony

Miss Manners speaks

by warriorfaninlakerland on Jul 14, 2007 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sean Deveney article...

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=236495&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=22&sid=ee2a461b20dab613a4f7a25cda3a9fe3

The article is a good summary of arguments made by some of the GSOM community and also brings some interesting new points. Like the comparison from a personality standpoint between Yi and Yao.

1. Yi is not Yao. We're not talking playing ability. We're talking gumption. When Yao Ming came into the NBA in 2002, he was more than the first Chinese draft pick. He was a fighter, a guy who was willing to stare down his government and his team in China, the Shanghai Sharks, to fight for his rights as an individual.

For example, in May 2003, Yao filed suit against the Chinese Basketball Association for selling his image for use in Coca-Cola advertising -- Yao had a contract with Pepsi. This was something athletes in China just did not do. The state controlled athletes. But Yao fought the state, demanded an apology and got it. He later told the New Yorker, "I always put the nation's benefit first and my own personal benefit second. But I won't simply forget my own interests. In this instance, I think that the lawsuit is good for my interests, and it's also good for other athletes. If this sort of situation comes up in the future for another athlete, I don't want people to say, 'Well, Yao Ming didn't sue, so why should you?' "

As another example, when the Sharks wanted to pick Yao's agent, he fought them on it and eventually won the right to choose his own representation. That willingness to fight is part of Yao's character, and he hoped it would create a legacy for the Chinese athletes who followed. But it appears Yi is not comfortable with that fighting mantle, and you have to hope the progress made by Yao's example will not be given back by Yi's example.

I'm a little disappointed by Yi's summer performance, although he certainly showed flashes of talent. I didn't get to watch the games but his game winner and 4th quarter scoring on some of his better games showed that he's able to play through bad stretches. It really seems like this guy is in dire need of NBA coaching.

I doubt this kid's going to be a bust. When guys like Pete Newell (of Pete Newell's legendary big man camp, the one that requires an invitation to attend) endorses him, I'd say he's going to be a great.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070627/sp_nm/basketball_nba_china_yi_dc

"Yi will end up being the best player in the NBA from China, and I know that is saying a lot," Hall of Fame coach Pete Newell told USA Today this week.

"He has much more body control than Yao, and he's a much better jumper. I'm real high on him, and I think I'm right."

by ThermoElectro on Jul 14, 2007 3:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

In case you don't know who Pete Newell is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Newell

by ThermoElectro on Jul 14, 2007 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the comments

on that thread are hilarious. its as if people didn't even read what Devenney said.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 14, 2007 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kinda like any of the Yi diaries on GSOM...

Diary author writes a thoughtful post that should incite thoughtful and engaging responses..and there are some that are good.

Then we get the obligatory: ZOMG TELL YI TO GTFO AND GO BACK TO CHINA CHINAMAN!!!!

I love the ones where they call him a "nip" and tell him to go "sayanara". Not on GSOM, but other sites.

by ThermoElectro on Jul 14, 2007 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Werd

free speech.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Jul 14, 2007 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

gg

Yeah, you're right. Free speech. Just don't expect not to get called out for being a dumbass when you tell people to shut up for talking about something you don't wanna talk about.

And the "free speech" argument is a cop out for someone who has no argument.

http://westcoastbiased.blogspot.com

by coma on Jul 14, 2007 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

"and the "free speech" argument is a cop out for someone who has no argument."

Jrich 4 mvp got owned just like how jrich got blindsided by the bobcats trade... whoopsies

by david240z on Jul 14, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yi Who?!?

Lol- I been stuck on Belinelli's power move's during this unexpected summer league! Inspire us Yi! I haven't seen anything yet that makes me wanna say "Oh My Gawd yo!"

by Tony.psd on Jul 14, 2007 4:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

BTW

It is Yi Hu?

by commish on Jul 14, 2007 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We Have It Backwards

Hey, aren't we the team with leverage here? We have our draft picked signed so why would we give up any more than just Wright (that sounds werd) for Yi! That was not a question. I would make Mil eat Cabbage or someone else or get another player. What are we thinking! That is not a question.

Do you think this is worth a poll question? Would you trade Wright for Yi straight up or would you want more for Wright? Or would you give Mil more than just Wright for Yi?

by commish on Jul 14, 2007 4:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Try to offer them Cabbages first...

Then if that failed, Yi for Wright straight up...

by ThermoElectro on Jul 14, 2007 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Word

At this point in the game, I wouldn't want to give up more than just Wright to get Yi. I'm not even sure if Yi is a better prospect from Wright from what I've seen in the summer league, but I don't know much about Wright yet anyway.

We have the leverage here, not them. If Sacramento wants to throw the farm and the cows (literally) at them for Yi, let them do it and weaken themselves.

by jlagace on Jul 14, 2007 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cabbages

Is not an albatross who must be eaten. He's a perfectly valuable expiring contract. Without him, we'd have almost no shot at, for example, KG.

Personally, I'd take Wright straight up over Yi. Given the Bucks total lack of leverage in the deal, I'd ask them to throw in next year's #1, unprotected; or, even better, offer them Powell and Lasme and let them see if they can get a better offer from one of the three other teams deemed acceptable by Yi's handlers.

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 14, 2007 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree the bucks have zero leverage

they can't deal yi for equal value so why should we give them it with wright? In fact many draft rankings had wright ranked above Yi (yahoo sports). Wright is flat out a better fit for our team as presently comprised he rebounds, blocks shots etc. Yi doesnt play D and shoots jumpers, we dont need more of that especially from a 7 footer.

It seems to me that the W's were going after wright all along (pure speculation) but he seems to fit better and with Mullin's history of not letting anyone know what he is going to do, it seems legitamate( in Mullin's short history as GM)

I say we offer cabbages and at best harrington for him and leave it at that. They can take it or leave it because lets face it Yi isnt gonna push us into the playoffs this year anyway.

THE HEART AND SOUL OF THE W'S

by dallaswarrior on Jul 14, 2007 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry *push us back into the playoffs

I am so used to us not being in the playoffs I forgot we made it.

THE HEART AND SOUL OF THE W'S

by dallaswarrior on Jul 14, 2007 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i definately

agree, wright over yi and we should try what u said.

by Proof on Jul 15, 2007 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

we should be over YI by now

i cant see why anybody would want him. hes not what we are looking for. he wont help us much. we have the american yi on our team and that is b. wright.

by stevenro59 on Jul 14, 2007 5:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

wa?

How can you prove any of what you just said. What grounds do you have to say that other than opinion?

http://westcoastbiased.blogspot.com

by coma on Jul 14, 2007 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

werd

thats just my opinion

by stevenro59 on Jul 14, 2007 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"The American Yi"

Their games are nothing alike.

Your assertions might be less ridiculous if you backed them up with some facts, or even observations, every now and then.

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 14, 2007 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i just dont care that much

ill let you handle that department for me, because you do a better job at it then me.

by stevenro59 on Jul 14, 2007 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, no thanks

I think most of the people here actually do care about making reasonable points and not sucking. You seem content to do nothing on this site but talk out your a**. There's not really a lot I can do about it, is there?

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 15, 2007 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

relax

do you feel that you must make a logical point all of the time? im not afraid to get called out by you or coma because it happens almost daily. im sure you are good guys at heart, but you have a wierd way of showing it. relax...

by stevenro59 on Jul 15, 2007 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm relaxed

Nobody said you have to be logical all the time. I don't think Coma and I (to the extent that we're different people) are logical and serious all the time. I guess it's just a matter of being a little clearer about when you're trying to make a serious hoops point and when you're just funnin'.

In any case, it's hard for me to believe you "don't care that much" about people listening to you and respecting your opinion. If you didn't, you wouldn't post here so much.

But you're right, I really shouldn't give you sh*t so much. Sorry for that. I dunno, maybe it's that damn webpin...? ;-P

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 15, 2007 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

could be

i got an elevator in my house... thats fing ridiculous

by stevenro59 on Jul 15, 2007 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

has brandan wright

been attending movie premieres, getting his photo taken on the red carpet??? until he does, there not even close.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 14, 2007 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

has brandan wright

"been attending movie premieres, getting his photo taken on the red carpet???"

No and that a good reason to like him better than Yi. Do we want a baller or a celebrity? I say go with the guy who stays away from the hollywood scene, he might spend more time on hoops.
Wright seems like a good investment to me, the kid looks like he has that Jrich drive and a rodman instinct.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 15, 2007 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We get it man

You don't like Yi. There's some racist undertones to your dislike for him, but oh well- moving on...

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 15, 2007 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

racist undertones to your dislike for him

Hey, Fuck you Atma. Call me wrong if you want but you're not gonna call me racist. My friends of all races will back me up on that. Why is it racist for me to not want Yi because of shortcomings in his game while it's ok for others to want him because he is chinese?

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 15, 2007 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

You're not even addressing the numerous shots and ridiculous assumptions you've made many times about anything Yi-related to other Asians in this community. Instead you're relying on the tired old "my friend's black, so I'm not racist" logic.

Your tone is wildly inappropriate for this site. Go somewhere else with that nonsense. It's not welcome here. It's sad to see because you've made some intelligent non-Yi related comments over the years, but oh well.

I would hope that at the very least you don't post here for a month. Good bye.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 15, 2007 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope...

you don't like him b/c you think the only reason everyone else likes him is b/c he's chinese.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong..

I don't see a Sun Yue Movement on GSOM..Do you? Give it up man.. Just do yourself a favor and write "I don't like Yi" on every post.

Admit it, Yi's got talent and potential. Whether it'll translate to success in the NBA is another story. It's not just hype..When guys like Pete Newell say he'll be better than Yao, that's not just hype, it's an endorsement.

by ThermoElectro on Jul 15, 2007 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that was a joke

if you couldn't tell. actually, I would love to have a real star on our team with some sort of celebrity status. I'm not saying Yi is a star, but i would like to be hyped about the potential for a super star along with something that would bring the Warriors some recognition to put them on the map. Anyway, are you that paranoid about anything YI related? I figure there are more things to be paranoid about in this world than YI talk.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 15, 2007 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would like to be hyped about the potential

" for a super star along with something that would bring the Warriors some recognition to put them on the map"

I guess it depends on whether you like hype or game? I like to keep it real, I don't see any connection between makin the hollywood star circuit and playing ball. I'd rather have my players in the gym or keepin their minds straight instead of building their red carpet resumes. If the guy is a true basketball star he will create his own hype with his play, he won't hafta go hang out with the "stars" to get his props.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 15, 2007 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

where did i say

i want hype over game? or that I want a team filled with players who hang out on red carpets? there you go again putting words in my mouth and taking things out of context. it was a joke, which i clarified in my response. i'm just saying some hype is nice, but obviously game fills sits and gets you that celebrity status. jordan, bird, magic, lebron, even Larry Johnson! et al. in some ways -- in addition to their amazing talent -- helped bring some attention to their game in other ways. if you want to believe I'm saying that all i want is a player that knows how to work the carpet, movie screen, or music studios, your completely wrong again.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 15, 2007 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you clearly have a specific agenda

of Yi bashing. If the first comment was that we have the "American version of Yi" and i make the comment, that is not basketball related at all, but jokingly saying that they're different because Wright hasn't been on Red Carpets (not a critique of Wright nor is it saying that i don't WANT Wright), it was you that made the assumption that I was making a comparison of their games and that I was making this a discussion about each other desirability based on who's got "celebrity" status and whos lacking it. You are the one who transformed what I said into something that it wasn't. I don't need you to translate inappropriately what i'm saying over and over again. k?

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 15, 2007 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

people have just as much right to be stuck on yi as the people who are obsessed w/ the KG trade still going down are. Very unlikely it would actually happen, but people will continue to talk about it until it doesn't.

by david240z on Jul 14, 2007 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

concerning E

Sorry if this was explained already but how can Yi join the 2008 draft if the Bucks already own the rights to Yi? Wouldn't the Bucks need to let go of Yi's rights and Yi would have to play another year with the Chinese National Team?

To add to the post. I don't like Yi, I don't see him any better than Al Harrington.

by shortypinoyx27 on Jul 14, 2007 6:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Concerning E

If Yi doesn't play professionally for the next year, then the Bucks lose all rights to him. That means he can't play for the CBA or go play in Europe. I don't know about the Chinese national team though.

by ThermoElectro on Jul 14, 2007 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Deal or no deal, Milwaukee...LOL

We give you our $10M trade exception for the rights of Yi Jianlian? We don't sacrifice any young players and/or draft picks to get Yi. Either way you put it, I don't wanna get Yi unless we get him for practically nothing.

by Phil T28 on Jul 14, 2007 8:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah....

forget trading real assets for this guy....they are the ones who are screwed.....i'd do pietrus for yi strait up but that is it....

by dnalvare on Jul 14, 2007 9:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

no yi

im sorry. i just think that he's not what we need. we need to either keep wright who i like better and make him into a star or trade for kg and try not to lose to much.

by Proof on Jul 14, 2007 10:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yi

I don't think that ship has sailed completely. I really hate bringing up KG again.. but I'm going to have to.

If we can get Yi for someone other than Wright, we'd have more bargaining chips to play with in a KG trade. Either we could throw Yi in the deal sometime down the road, or use him to fill holes our team would have after a KG trade has depleted our depth.

Looks like they need help at backup shooting guard. S&T Pietrus for Yi? Shoot I'd do it. And if the KG trade went down? That's like fulfilling two GSOM movements at once..

by jlagace on Jul 15, 2007 3:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

you think milwaukee is any better than minnesota?

Yi doesn't want to play on any of those teams probably...especially if KG is on the move. The chinese want Yi somewhere they can market him, basically he belongs in a decent state in a popular city. So he needs to go somewhere that has more humans than livestock.

by david240z on Jul 15, 2007 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any GM

who took Pietrus for Yi would never work another day in the NBA or any sports league!

by warriorfaninlakerland on Jul 15, 2007 6:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

Pietrus isn't as bad as we at like to GSOM believe. The fact of the matter is they need a SG and there's not many left in free agency.

If Yi pans out to be the next Wang Zhizhi or Mengke Bateer than the Bucks' GM would sure look like a smart guy for trading him for a productive player in Pietrus.

by jlagace on Jul 15, 2007 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on!

Pietrus is a talent who isn't worth the MLE now when he should be approaching his prime. Yi is a potential game changing big man. Let me put it to you this way: if we could get Yi in a trade, who would you rather give up, Pietrus or Brandan Wright?

by warriorfaninlakerland on Jul 15, 2007 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok ok

Let me clarify. My "Pietrus for Yi" trade speculation lacks seriousness. I'm not saying that's what the Bucks would hope for, but if it's the best offer they get, then who knows. I don't know if all the other teams are going to be so quick to give up their much coveted lottery pick talents for a guy who didn't produce in the summer league and thus gives the impression of a flop, but who knows.

Hopefully Mulson can buy low.

by jlagace on Jul 15, 2007 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Problems with the Yi Movement

Specifically, dealing with Milwaukee.

As we all know, trades require some balancing of salaries to make work. The Bucks' roster, however, is a mess.

The Bucks have glaring holes at backup PG, backup SG, backup PF/C, and starting SF. It's basically Redd, Maurice Williams, Bogut, Charlie V, and a host of scrubs.

They have two big contracts: Dan Gadzuric ($20m/3years left), and Bobby Simmons (something like $30M/3 years left).

If we sent them a signed/traded Pietrus and Cabbages, or ANYTHING, they literally have nothing to give us back. Yi counts as nothing since he's not signed a contract yet; I wouldn't touch Gadzuric or Simmons with a 10ft pole.

It also seems that the Bucks are still optimistic (foolish) about winning Yi over. Good luck with that.

As a result, they're going to demand something more than Pietrus or Cabbages or whatever we want to send them. At minimum, it'll probably take Brandon Wright + more to get their attention, and they passed on Wright in the draft already.

It's tough to deal with a team that is both handicapped and stupid.

If the Warriors want Yi, the best option, imho, is to wait a while and try to get Yi's rights in exchange for future picks. Something like an unprotected 2008 first rounder + other future pick for Yi. It lets the Bucks recoup their loss somewhat and get young talent in next years draft.

by OptionZero on Jul 15, 2007 6:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Lets let by gones be by gones...

hes overrated.

This is my team There are many like it But this one is mine. My team, without me is useless. Without my team, I am useless

by BlueNgoldBlood on Jul 15, 2007 7:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i am not going to hate on yi

i have never seen yi play. i would also never consider his summer league, or international league, stats as an answer to the question of "is yi either a good or a bad player?"

to me the most important point to consider in this conversation is what is best for the warriors. i can think of several international players, including one dubbed air france, who came into the nba with plenty of hype and plenty of athleticism on the practice court, but not much else.

by stedanko on Jul 16, 2007 1:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yi Jianlian

The California team that has the best chance to land Yi Jianlian is from the north...of us. Sacramento would be a better fit for Yi. If Yi plays there, he can come over to a much-more Asian populated area in the Bay Area as a tourist...hehe. Here's a probable trade proposal involving Milwaukee and Sacramento: Milwaukee sends Yi along with Ruben Patterson and a future first rounder to Sacramento for Ron Artest and a future second rounder. Even though we keep hearing that Ron Artest wanna stay in Sacramento practically his whole career, the Kings are looking to rebuild. They have a new coach in Reggie Theus and have too many young players to actually have a shot in the deep Western Conference. Mike Bibby's certainly on his way out, possibly to Cleveland. Mikki Moore will only play as well as his salary goes. Shareef Abdur-Rahim won't really provide much spark due to his injuries as well as his inconsistencies. Their version of POB a.k.a. Spencer Hawes is probably an upgrade over POB, don't that's not really saying much. Kevin Martin is their star and the rest aren't gonna contribute right away. If Sacramento does this move, Yi will certainly be happy playing for California. When or if he starts will be a question of his potential.

by Phil T28 on Jul 16, 2007 4:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs