Does Nelson really want to coach a "contender" ?

by WhatWouldTerryCummingsDo on Jul 14, 2007 5:09 AM PDT

This is not a KG thread though it's probably (very) loosely related:

I've been following the Dubs religiously since I was a kid watching Sleepy Floyd explode on the Lakers in the playoffs. Anything and everything Warriors related I've devoured without question, whether or not it was good for my health, That said, I've followed Don Nelson's career closely since then, and I've notived certain... tendencies, I guess. So many GSoMers post that we need to get KG now, and that Nellie won't come back unless it's for a "contender". But that logic is suspect, I feel, judging from what Nelson has done throughout his career.

Exhibit A: Nelson is "let go" from a team one year removed from losing Game 7 of the NBA Finals, though it is clear that he was never particularly enamored of this team to begin with, a team which was, back then, a "contender" in every sense of the word...

Exhibit B: Nelson "retires" towards the very end of the season, and names his assistant, Avery Johnson, head coach; strange, because they were every bit a playoff team, made the Finals the very next year, and had the best record in the NBA the year after that...

Unlike Larry Brown (who has a similar hunger for hopeless reclamation projects) Nelson is a personnel guy, and not just an Xs and Os guy, with a very clear, distinct (and singular) vision of what a basketball team should be. If he ever had the personnel (and size) he really wanted, he would blow everyone else in the league out of the water--at least, that's the rationale he always gives. The 1992 All-Star Game, in which Nellie was head-coaching against Phil Jackson, he won in the biggest blowout ever in that contest, by putting unorthodox lineups out on the floor (3 PGs and 2 centers: KJ, Hardaway, Magic, Dream, and the Admiral)--it was just an All-Star Game, but still, I've never seen a more dominating performance on any stage (except, perhaps the Mavs-Warriors series this year)...

But I don't think Nellie gets off on stuff like that. He took the Knicks job and learned quickly from that. It's not that he would much rather have no expectations whatsoever (which is what Cuban tried to claim about him in the wake of the Mavs playoff exit), but that he's so anti-establishment, that the second the media, etc, start to feel him, he wants no part of it. Witness the 94-95 GS Warriors, Sports Illustrated's so-called "dark horse" to win the championship. Witness his business dealings with his former and ex-current bosses (Cohan, Cuban, and Cohan again). He likes to buck conventional wisdom, stick it to the man, and find success in the unlikeliest of places more than anything else--even more, I dare say, than winning championships. He's won plenty of those with the Celtics as a player. He's 67 freaking years old--what's really in it for him? My guess is that it's fun. It's so much more fun exceeding humble expectations than trying to fulfill lofty ones...

That said, the team we have now seems tailor-made for Nellie: rife with question marks, loaded with potential but not too much in the way of expectations. I think he comes back for at least another year or two--with a restructured contract, that is. If we trade for KG, he probably steps down in February, and leaves Keith Smart to pick up the pieces...

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Sorry that the heading of my diary

got butchered, it seems, in the Community Discussions column of the front page--I'm still a novice at all this posting business. I just thought it would be interesting to get a "Nellie: Will He Or Won't He?" thread going as a little change of pace from all the KG diaries...

by WhatWouldTerryCummingsDo on Jul 14, 2007 5:28 AM PDT reply actions

Interesting take WWTCD

and no worries about the title (actually maybe Atma can fix?)

agree or not, it's definitely food for thought; i admire your devotion 'ol timer - you're solid GSW core fanbase and it's good to hear what someone who's been following them long before the days of Arenas or J-Rich has to say; you should definitely voice your thoughts more often to help give us slightly younger cats a different/broader perspective and something to chew

by Anomaly on Jul 14, 2007 7:56 AM PDT reply actions

Great diary!

I think people are interesting in general, and I think Nelson is a very interesting person in particular; not only because of his unorthodox coaching style, but because of his persona.

You have touched on many aspects of both in this diary and raised many intriguing points about the man. The only thing I would add to the picture is his love of poker. Anyone who's played poker knows its more about the mind game than the cards. When the dubs played their last game against Houston, I remember the announcer commenting on the look Van Gundy shot Nelson when Nelson inserted Biedrins immediately after Van Gundy took Yao out. If I could play with your money, I'd love to sit down with Nellie, Willy, and Woody and play a few hands...

by sfhand on Jul 14, 2007 9:28 AM PDT reply actions

True that!

Any character study of Nellie that does not include any mention of the all-night poker/smoke-out sessions with the "Red-Headed Stranger" is hopelessly incomplete... Thanks for the comments. I remember watching that Rockets game, too and thinking "Jesus--Van Gundy is getting the shit coached out of him". Generally when you see one team beating another you see the talent on the floor, the individual performances, etc.--the coaching is not quite so evident. In this Rockets game, however, the coaching disparity was EXTREMELY evident, something even a novice would pick up. It was that game right there that had me thinking Nelson was coaching probably the best basketball in his life, and I have to admit his poker game probably had a lot to do with it. Van Gundy was PISSED...

by WhatWouldTerryCummingsDo on Jul 14, 2007 11:40 AM PDT reply actions

So true

Nellie should've gotten an award for that coaching performance against the Rockets the day. I was amazed... and cracking up every time he played the subbing game with Biedrins and Harrington against Yao.

Check out the recap I dropped for that game:
Recap: Warriors 110, Rockets 99 - Houston WE Have Lift Off!

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 14, 2007 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Wow

as crazy as that sounds, you bring up a pretty valid point. Definitely makes you think about all the things Nellie has done in his career, or atleast as far back as I remember haha. But your point about Nellie leaving the Mavs right as they almost hit their plateau is an interesting one. If he was really in it for the rings, why would he do that? Definitely a few things to think about. Great post.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Jul 14, 2007 12:25 PM PDT reply actions

phenominal diary

very good points and well thought out. great read. the only thing i can think of is as why he would only want to coach a contender is that he might just be getting to old to "babysit" the kids in developing a young team. i mean he is one of the best coaches ever to not win a championship, and maybe he wants one, plus, how freakin great would he look if a franchise didn't sniff the playoffs for 12 years, and then he comes along, boom playoffs, biggest upset of all time, and the next year... finals? wow. talk about a change that would be, just because of nellie.

by Proof on Jul 14, 2007 11:40 PM PDT reply actions

I think you said it right there

"BOOM, playoffs, biggest upset of all time"--I think Nelson accomplished EXACTLY what he envisioned when he signed on in the first place to coach the Dubs for one more go round. That is, namely, 1) shock the world, Skip Bayless, housewives, whoever, and 2) make his former boss look like a complete dumbass--he fulfilled both of those things and then some: the Warriors were "America's Team" for a couple of weeks there in the playoffs--they were THE story in all of sports--and Mark Cuban was America's laughingstock. Mission accomplished...

But these things aren't without cost, I feel. The things that make Nelson so great are the very same reasons that he will never win a championship. To take the steps and make the compromises necessary to win it all--it's just not his style...

It absolutely PAINS me to say these things because I literally BLEED blue and gold (and Golden Gate Bridge Orange, or whatever they call the team colors these days) but winning a championship doesn't seem to be Nellie's top priority, and never has been--slaying Goliath and making every "expert" look stupid is his M.O. Winning championships (though it's good work if you can get it) would probably require Nellie to alter his entire philosophy, and force him to water everything down to easily digestible Popovich/Bellichek/Jesus-freak cliches--which is exactly the kind of thing Nelson has always been most stridently AGAINST...

Read any interview with any member of the San Antonio Spurs and you pretty much know exactly what they're going to say before they say it. It's always, as musicians say, "in the pocket"--nothing surprising or profound or potentially offensive. Cliches win championships, it seems.

That being the case, it's a pretty depressing proposition for sports fans (if not the human race in general). But what makes Nelson so interesting is that he rails AGAINST all that so passionately. With Nelson, you never know what he's going to say next, save that it will be entertaining and it won't be like anything Popovich or Bellichek would say. And every now and then, he'll pull something off like he did against the Mavs in the playoffs (against Avery, an admitted Popovich acolyte) and make all these cliches seem ridiculous. There appears to be a banal, methodical formula for winning that covers all of sports. What's great about Nellie is that he comes around periodically and tears that formula to shreds...

What sucks if you're a Warriors fan is that THAT is what Nellie's all about--going all the way and winning a championship is secondary to all this. As a lifelong Dubs fan, it's a kind of double-edged sword. Considering that the chances we (or just about any other team in the league) win a ring are pretty slim, I'd rather have Nellie calling everyone else's bullshit than having someone like Carlesimo, Mike Brown, or one of the Van Gundys saying all of the "right things" and losing anyways...

That's my take--there's no other coach I'd rather have than Nellie, but I'm pretty sure that effectively eliminates any hope for a championship. Hell, it could be worse: we could be the Hornets or the Hawks--some team nobody gives a shit about and could skip town any day. All of a sudden we in the Bay Area are lucky--we've got an entertaining, relatively successful brand of basketball with a SOUL...

by WhatWouldTerryCummingsDo on Jul 15, 2007 5:06 AM PDT reply actions