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The Global Economic Logic to Yi's NBA Destination

Tiny by dj fuzzylogic on in Science

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Stern's is seeing dollar signs when he is in Yi's presence. No joke.

Before and even after the NBA Draft, the mystery around the hottest international prospect Yi Jianlian generated some interesting, though not surprising, responses from his critics.  Some, not all, of the criticism of Yi--whether it was his actual age, his lack of adequate professional competition, and where he should play based on specific demographics--are just more manifestations of American Orientalism.  That is, American perceptions of itself as "dominating" politically, economically, culturally etc. is achieved by distancing itself from its perceptions of a weaker, backward Asia.  In other words, America identifies itself by making up some crazy ideas of Asia with no real quantifiable evidence then claims itself to be everything but that.  Its probably true that Yi’s competition in Asia is not up to par with the NBA and SOME of the international arena.  But hypothetically speaking, if Yi is really 19 and most kids drafted are as young as 17, 18, 19 (like rail thin Brandan Wright) -- many who have only played high school or a year of college with competition that is physically undeveloped -- are we to say that Yi has a lower ceiling?  Is Yi -- who’s age ranges from 19-22 -- playing in China’s professional league less likely to succeed against kids in America or Europe his own age if not younger who have also played against some strong, but much equally mediocre competition (at least in relation to the NBA or even NBDL)?  Are those people who rely on the "low competition" argument suggesting that the Chinese league that Yi played against has totally stunted his development forever?   Are we to assume that the Chinese professional basketball leagues are WORSE than high school competition or almost ALL college teams?  How would you be able to qualify AND quantify this judgment?

This illogical logic comes up again in the debates of whether or not Yi should play for Milwaukee.  In several (not many) instances on this blog, people have criticized Yi for "whining."  In one instance, as Atma showed me, a blogger called him a "Chinaman" (what is this the 19th century?) and that he should just go back home.  A few others have echoed this same sentiment: Yi should just suck it up and deal with it AND he should feel privileged to play in America and if he refuses, he should, again, just go home.  What strikes me is how people conflate Yi playing in the NBA, a business move, as the American legend of the "immigrant narrative." It’s as if people think Yi is immigrating here, attempting to establish citizenship, and to live here permanently and we American citizens (and not the NBA) are granting him this wonderful opportunity and he should be thankful.  That is the general "immigrant narrative" as we know it in America.  My question is, why should we be thankful for the corporations that are making money off of Yi? One has to consider the structural limitations to Yi's actual choice-making. EDIT: Is Yi Really calling the shots or do the corporations (i.e. the NBA) that are trying to make money of him the ones really trying to dictate where he is going. My belief is the latter.


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Shane Battier shoe deal in China comes off the deals that Yao has already established.

This particular logic of Yi as just another ‘immigrant’ reduces the complexities of Yi’s situation.  For one, Yi is not immigrating here nor is he trying to gain citizenship (at least not that I know of yet).  Second, to argue that Yi is "whiny", should just "deal with it" or "go back to China" forgets the HUGE international, global capitalism at work in making Yi a star and making the NBA and many multinational corporations TONS of money.  A Google keyword search of "nba china market" brings up dozens of articles dating as far back as 2002 describing the NBA’s primary interest tapping into the market in Asia and the millions of dollars it has poured specifically into China and other Asian corporations to expand the NBA empire.  Don’t believe me?  Click here, here, and here.  

I’m not here to make a moral or ethical judgment on whether Yi should or should not report to Milwaukee, which the Asian/Asian American population is less than 2% of the city’s population.  But what moral or ethical judgment I am making is that rather than viewing Yi through the parochial anti-immigrant, nativist lens, we all need to consider the huge financial opportunities and profits the NBA and the rest of the globalized world wants to get in that is embodied in Yi and other Chinese players in the NBA.   In these articles and even at the draft, the NBA is deliberately trying to use people like Yao and Yi in the NBA to help sell their product (NBA merchandise) overseas in places like China.  Check it:

The NBA, no doubt, is hoping everyone ends up happy. The league is eager to publicize its China progress. Spalding sold a million basketballs in China last year, a league release informs. Programming from last season was available on 51 Chinese TV stations, and various NBA paraphernalia could be had at 50,000 outlets. It's no shock, then, that a bunch of Yao Ming jerseys have been sold in China More significant is that he ranks only sixth on the popularity list. From Shanghai to Hong Kong, they go first for such capitalists as Bryant, Allen Iverson, Tracy McGrady, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James.


Granted, Yao was not the top selling jersey, its more evident here how Yao’s presence in the NBA has led to the increased consumption of anything NBA in China.  This translating into more dollars for Stern:

Stern said the NBA is trying to increase its profitability in Japan and Asia by securing tie-ups with Japanese companies in China.

"Japanese companies are moving very aggressively to make sure that they don't get shut out of the China market," he said.

"We are actually talking to many Japanese companies about affiliations with them in China."


Here is more on the billion dollar investments in overseas Chinese players in the NBA.  From an article titled, "NBA uses Yao to court China":

Behind the star power of Yao Ming, the National Basketball Association fired up Chinese fans with its brand of hoops and hoopla, staging exhibition games recently at packed stadiums in Shanghai and Beijing as a homecoming for the 2-metre-29-centimetre icon, who plays for the Houston Rockets.

Afterward, league executives were cheering as well.

They came away with plans for doubling the number of stores selling NBA apparel in the country, along with names of Chinese companies interested in becoming sponsors - and had nothing but blue-sky predictions.

"Over the next 20 years, the growth of the NBA in China will mirror or parallel growth in China,'' NBA Commissioner David Stern said.


But its not just the NBA who’s driving this, it’s a concerted effort between multiple corporations:

Meanwhile, NBA officials say they have been approached by Chinese companies interested in becoming corporate sponsors - not to sell to Americans but as part of a sort of boomerang strategy to influence mainland consumers.


If these articles and the other dozens are any evidence, Yi’s ability to pick and choose where he goes is constrained, in a large part, by market logics.  Whether it’s Yi preference to be in a large Asian American community is actually his choice, doing whatever it takes to make sure their (the NBA, China, and other corporations) investment, that being Yi, is in the proper place to succeed is a top priority. If multiple corporations have their hand in how Yi's career goes, shouldn't they care about the well being of their product? Isn't it common logic that companies try to keep their employees happy through random incentives? Is Yi's case any different? 

To assume that Yi is coming here purely on his own will and to treat him as an ordinary immigrant is EXTREMELY short sighted.  The emergence of skilled Chinese basketball players should not be considered a complete anomaly considering how involved the NBA has been in developing interest in the game internationally in their own efforts to make more money.  In some ways, you could say the NBA’s economic plan backfired when some international competition began to outplay even the best of the best in basketball --this dating as far back as 2000, the last time Team USA won the gold having to go through several nailbiters against Lithuania and France.  Instead of opting a nativist stance by policing the national basketball borders and blaming international players for coming here or forcing them to play by America’s rules, those criticizing the deluge of international players should really be pointing their fingers at the NBA for starting the global interest in basketball by penetrating their economies to consume mass quantities of NBA products.  

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Stern even brings over cheerleading. I wonder if he will also export choreographers in his next campaign?

The particular situation of Yi is more complicated than American Orientalist assumptions of Yi as another "Chinaman" who needs to play by American rules.  What this particular situation has shown us is that the NBA is in fact shaking hands with corporations and nation-states around the world in an increasingly integrated global economy--playing by the rules of global economics, which Yi is smack-dab in the middle of.   The NBA is as much invested in Yi’s success as his camp is and from my predictions, the NBA is as much implicated in the perfect "product placement" of Yi as much as Yi's camp is. Granted, money could be made anywhere. But why the big deal when Oden and Durant went to smaller markets? People were up in arms saying that it made sense for them to be in "big markets" to tap into all the marketing and merchandising. Or what about rumors of Lebron going to New York, where again, they can tap into a huger market? If we come to think that location is completely irrelevant in Yi's case, why do we keep bringing it up with future stars such as the aforementioned? To assume Yi has nothing to do with marketing and is ONLY about "appeasing" the Asian community in the U.S. is just plain stupid and eurocentric biased  Before we jump to anymore conclusions or judgments about Yi, I urge you to follow the money first.


The Yi Movement:

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huh?
What's the point of this article? Yi generating revenue for the NBA is a give-in

by BaronForPrez on Jul 2, 2007 10:37 PM PDT   0 recs

subject
I guess to defend Yi...(yes i'm replying to myself), but this situation makes him seem like another Steve Francis to a lot of people. Same with nfl rookies that hold out, it's just lame.

by BaronForPrez on Jul 2, 2007 10:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

again
you need to read more closely. Is Yi really the one saying where he wants to go or is it all these other people, corporations for that matter, who are invested in his success?

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 2, 2007 10:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

right
but you need to read more closely as what i'm actually arguing. of course he's generating revenue for the NBA, who in the NBA doesn't? i'm saying people need to look at the bigger picture that yi's actual destination is constrained by all these corporations (the NBA included) that are trying to make sure he's in the right place to make the most money for everyone.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 2, 2007 10:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What about...
the Chinese government?  not much is said about their say in this whole thing.  They were very heavily involved in the Yao deals and I'm sure they have a big say in Yi as well.

Yi's arrival in the nba is a big deal for the country.  If there were already a bunch of Chinese players in the league I'm sure it wouldn't be as important for him to land in a big city.  Point being, I think China has as much invested in Yi's success as NBA/corporations.

I doubt they want another Wang Zhi Zhi on their hands.

J.cob -greatest accomplishment: coming up with the Golden State of Mind name.

by jdotcob on Jul 2, 2007 11:10 PM PDT   0 recs

This is a huge case of ...
 the tail trying to wag the dog! DJ, Are you taking a summer economics class? If not and if it's really as bad as you claim then the NBA (or any american sports league so concerned about sales to china) has lost it's focus! and is in big trouble.  
  The NBA is a BASKETBALL league, people watch it for the games, the merchandise would not have any value without a strong structured GAME. If stern and the owners concentrate on selling merchandise to China to the point that they tamper with the draft by trying to  place chinese players in preferred markets then the base fans are gonna look for another sport to follow. No one wants to invest their time and emotions to watch fixed games or worry about the ramifications of the nationality of their players. There's lots of other games in town. Fair true competition at a lower level such as College or even high school would then have more basketball value than fixed , manipulated NBA games.
  The right thing to do here is let the draft results sort themselves out. Milw. will decide what value Yi has to them and he can decide how bad he wants to play. If following the american rules and customs is not worth the trouble to Yi then he can go back to china and do his thing. If the chinese govt, is trying to control him then stern should immediatly refuse to let him play and give them a good lecture on human rights and our dedication to individual freedom.
   I think everyone is trying to dramatize and complicate a basically simple situation. Andris came from lithuania and did everything right, if Yi can't do the same then we should not want him in the league, a start would be for them to clarify why there is any confusion about Yi's age? If they actually don't know then just explain why? I find it hard to trust people that are not straight with the little things cause they often are trying to cover up bigger things?
    All this drama takes away from the enjoyment of the game and is among the reasons I don't want Yi on the warriors, if he just goes to Milw. and plays a while everyone will know the truth about his NBA game and he can get traded later if he really wants to be somewhere else. He can be Milw's agent zero.
   

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 2, 2007 11:18 PM PDT   0 recs

this post is flawed
why?
The NBA is a BASKETBALL league, people watch it for the games, the merchandise would not have any value without a strong structured GAME
 

let's say that the correlation you draw between merchandise and the value of a "strong structured game" is true. how does refusing to show up to the team that drafted you weaken the structure of the game?

case in point: eli manning.

or for nba, there are soo many similar instances where players who were traded refuse to show up to the team. like mourning. like john starks haha when we traded him for hughes.

by dso on Jul 3, 2007 12:19 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm not necessarily opposed to
Yi going to Milwaukee (as I've said to you before). I don't even think Yi is really opposed to Milwaukee though we're not really sure. What needs to be considered is that NBA basketball isn't just basketball, but an huge HUGE business. There are countless articles on the web with Stern cited as saying he's poured millions of dollars into developing a basketball culture in China that will benefit the NBA financially. Severeal articles also cite Yi as a player, is literally a product of Stern's deliberate attempt and tapping into China, a country in the middle of its industrializing boom. People need to not just think domestically about the product and more internationally and the billions of people (literally) that the NBA is trying to make into it's consumers. To compare Yi to other domestic stars just doesn't make any sense (or cents?) because they don't necessarily have the power than Yi has in "briding" (sorry for lack of a better word) NBA interests and China's business and political priorities. Yao (and Yi) functions as a spokesman, the middleman that help (but not only) make these global capitalism go. Again, I'm urging people beyond Yi and to consider what other major structures that have an impact on where he goes. Unlike Eli Manning, et al., have we really heard whether Yi DOESN'T want to play in Milwaukee? Has it come out and said it like the other whiners? If all reports show Yi's camp is doing the talking and are most disappointed, why do people keep pointing the finger at Yi and making it seem like he's making the choice exclusively? Who are these people in his "camp" anyway?

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 3, 2007 7:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

nice post
albeit long. long doesnt mean bad, and i can see you formulating and strengthening your argument as you wrote this. however, for those who lack the attention span, the article boils down to this:
  1. Some people feel Yi is being selfish for being reluctant to play at Milwaukee. A lot of these people feel this "chinaman" should feel lucky to get to play in America.
  2. These people are wrong because:
a.) Yi has no intent to be a citizen in America, nor does he have any intent to pursue the immigrant "American Dream.

b.) The NBA has long hoped to create a market in China, and Yi, along with Yao, serves as a contact point. As such, the well-being of Yi is really important. Not that the rules of the Game will be bent for him, but in terms of his ability to adjust and live in America, his needs must be accounted for. This serves the best interest of the NBA, Yi, and the Chinese Market.

c.) It is possible that Yi is not acting on his own but is being strongly influenced by the corporations looking to profit from this. So his desire to play in large Asian markets may be the corporations talking through him.

If i've failed at paraphrasing i'm really sorry T.T

by dso on Jul 3, 2007 12:29 AM PDT   0 recs

Missing the Point
Unless you are inferring that the NBA is behind Yi's decision to not show up, preferring he go to a bigger market, you're completely missing the point.

This isn't the first time this has been done, Eric Lindros did this when he was drafted by the Nordiques (ultimately for almost the same reasons), Kobe Bryant and his father hashed out a list of "preferred cities," and most recently, Eli Manning refused to play in San Diego. While the first thought about these players may not be their draft controversy, that stigma will always be associated with them throughout their career. Currently, Yi and all the athletes who pull the same stunt are whiners. Yi should be thrilled he has the ability to play in the NBA. No, not because he will be playing in America (they could be playing in Iceland for all that it matters), but because he will be playing with the best basketball players in the world. The people who want him to go back to China if he doesn't "play nice" are most likely the same people that would tell an American-born player to piss off and play in another league if he didn't sign with his draft team. In the context that it is currently used in, it has no racist connotation at all.

What it all comes down to is if you think drafted players should be able to determine where they play (thus eliminating the idea of a draft). Boston and New York are huge markets, but realistically, how many players see those cities as ideal locations? Do you want to encourage foreign player's governments to strong-arm the league for the sake of international publicity and recognition?

As far as I can recall, Cleveland wasn't a major basketball city before Lebron James showed up; do you think James' career and marketability was at all stunted by him being drafted by Cleveland?

Yi has made it clear that he only wants to play in a market with a sizable Asian market (read: piss off small market teams). What are we, in the 19th century? I only want to play in a town where people look like me!

And if you want to talk about the economics of it all, Yi's stock has plummeted. If he will only play in a large market, you've eliminated a good amount of teams from the trade picture (therefore limiting the talent pool), Milwaukee will probably not be able to get a comparable quality player in return for Yi because big market teams know Yi will lowball and small market teams won't make offers because it will be the same problem again.

Ideally, David Stern should give Yi (and all future players who pull this stunt) an ultimatum. You play for Milwaukee and/or get something sorted out for your trade, or you never play in the NBA.

by MrCodeDude on Jul 3, 2007 1:27 AM PDT   0 recs

Read DSO's quick summary above
and my response to Skepticon. Its articulates in a nutshell (DSO does a great job) my main points.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 3, 2007 7:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why choose a Chinese market?
Yi has made it clear that he only wants to play in a market with a sizable Asian market (read: piss off small market teams). What are we, in the 19th century? I only want to play in a town where people look like me!

No, you're missing the point.  He wants to live in a city where he has places to go that serve good Chinese food, where he can meet people who speak the only language he's fluent in, and you know, have a life off the court.

That's perfectly reasonable.  "Large Asian population" is surely a metaphor for "Chinese."

by achiappanza on Jul 3, 2007 9:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Playing in America
Was he not aware that, prior to declaring for the NBA Draft, that he had a very slim chance of going to a market where there would be a "sizable" Asian population?

He knew he wasn't going #1/#2 to Portland or Seattle, who, respectively, have 5.7% and 12.6% Asian Populations.

With the exception of Boston at 5.6%, all teams before Sacramento, (that's Atlanta, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Charlotte and Chicago) all have an Asian population of less than 5%.

Using 5% as the magic number, he had a 20% chance of going to a "sizable" Asian market if he were drafted in the Top 10 and not traded.

If you are a fan of the game, and not the global conglomerate, you should be against a player and his agent/handler/country strong-arming the league and teams into going to the team they want.

If Yi wants to be guaranteed to play where there is good Chinese food, where a majority of people speak Chinese and live a Chinese life, then maybe he should stay in China? There is a sacrifice in going to play in foreign leagues.

Do you know how badly laughed out an American soccer player would be if he were invited to play in the Bundesliga, Ligue or Serie, and decided not to because he couldn't get a good hamburger and would have to speak German/French/Italian?

by MrCodeDude on Jul 3, 2007 1:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What's the argument?
If you're arguing that players who enter the NBA should quit trying to rig the draft and let the chips fall where they may, I'm not arguing against you.  Kobe Bryant should have been slapped down in his draft too.

I thought you were genuinely contending that Yi was only motivated to go to a city where people look like him.  Sadly, the Internet is filled with people about that deep, and so sarcasm often goes unappreciated.

by achiappanza on Jul 3, 2007 3:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice article
While I don't agree with everything you said, you make some valid points. I'm from Australia so perhaps I don't have the understanding of a lot of you guys, especially with the immigration issue.

I personally don't like the idea of a player declining to play on smaller market teams. The whole idea of the draft is to allow smaller market (not always worse, i.e. Lakers) teams the chance to get better by drafting a potential superstar.
This in turn may make their market larger...

To counter this "money rules everything argument" I think that the Oden or Durant question has answered some questions. I'm guessing that Seattle and Portland are roughly the same "market" size here. Say Oden turns into a Tim Duncan and Portland become a playoff team - Durant turns into a Lebron James and seattle become a playoff team. Which "market" will have grown the most between the two teams? I'm thinking fans are going to be more turned on by Durant which leads me to to think that Portland selected Oden knowing full well that their "market" may have increased if they had selected Durant.

But hey I'm just an Aussie who would like Mullin to work his magic to get G Wallace, because I would really like someone who can grab some boards now that JRich has gone.

Who shot JR? Mullin thats who.

by ONBB on Jul 3, 2007 6:37 AM PDT   0 recs

small markets
I personally don't like the idea of a player declining to play on smaller market teams. The whole idea of the draft is to allow smaller market (not always worse, i.e. Lakers) teams the chance to get better by drafting a potential superstar.
This in turn may make their market larger...

This has been the core of my argument. Teams like Milwaukee and Memphis have a hard enough time luring free agents as it is, so when the league allows players in the draft to force trades out of those markets, you are hurting the league as a whole. He was the "best player available" (we can debate this all day, but let's just assume for arguments sake that he was. The Bucks had every right to draft him, because while the city or area itself may struggle to lure in potential free agents,  the chance to play with top tier players, i.e. KG, Duncan, Lebron, etc., is enough to make a player want to sign with that team in hopes of bigger things like a championship. None of the those cities (Minneapolis, San Antonio, CLEVELAND, is all that attractive to a young, rich athlete from an off the court perspective, but the chance for a ring is what really matters to the true athlete.

by Tony Stark on Jul 3, 2007 8:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

again, missing the point
the point here is not to make a judgment of why or why not Yi should play for a small market team. i think most everyone would agree that the draft SHOULD benefit crappier teams and in a lot of cases it does.

but instead of assuming that Yi is in complete control of his situation, people need to consider what's at stake in where he ends up and who cares and profits from that.

honestly, people need to actually read what I wrote in its entirety before repeating the same arguments that y'all have been making for the last 3 months, that being Yi is just some guy who's being a bee-yatch. i'm not making an argument that Yi should not have to report to Milwaukee, but to show that NOT playing in small markets is not the players choice ALL THE TIME, especially in Yi's case.if any of the links I have cited are any indication, Yi's ability to make his own choices is constrained by a larger capitalist mechanisms in which multiple agents -- China, the NBA (Stern is all over these articles), and other multinational corporations -- trying to get in on Yi's potential success. Forcing him to go to Milwaukee is not really his choice is it?

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 3, 2007 9:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

missing the point
 
"people need to actually read what I wrote in its entirety before repeating the same arguments that y'all have been making for the last 3 months"

   We get the point we just don't agree with it!
 We're BASKETBALL fans, not fans of the global economy. We're in the game for diversion, this is not our day job so we don't wanna base any team decisions on the world economy, we just want to watch a competive fair league. What the chinese do in their counrty is their problem, it doesn't need to be ours as fans, we have to deal with global exploitation enough in other areas of our lives, let basketball stay free.

   "Forcing him to go to Milwaukee is not really his choice is it?"

   Now, this is where you go really wrong. The draft pick is solely in the name of Yi Jianlian, it does not name Nike, Chines govt. or his handlers. His skill or perceived  skill has earned him this draft pick, he is now in a position to tell all the parasites to bug off! If he can't see that then he needs a new lawyer. Hell, he can come hang out at my place and I'll protect him if he wants. I'd love to sic my dogs on a nike pusher or commie agent!

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 3, 2007 10:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you assume
again, that I think he should avoid Milwaukee because he's Asian and that the parties involved should do what they want.  Am I actually saying that?  Find a spot in my argument where I suppose that Yi shouldn't go to Milwaukee.

If you actually read more closely, you'd notice how the NBA (not just China, it's authoritarian government or Asian corporations) have actually spent TONS of money, establishing a culture of basketball AS entertainment in order for them to purchase NBA products.  To assume that the NBA game is neutral is just plain ignorant.  We all hope for a "free" NBA of equal competition where teams can get better in the draft, but to ignore the NBA and it's intentions in the scheme of things by merely pointing at other countries faults is again ignorant and Orientalist to its core.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 3, 2007 12:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ignorant and Orientalist to its core.?
   He IS Chinese isn't he?  If he was British or Mexican we wouldn't be talking about the orient! Do you want to use a code word instead of oriental? He injected himself into OUR game, WE are not trying to play in the chinese league.
   You don't seem to understand that we all KNOW of the NBA's, Nike's, and this player in question's govt. involvement and we just don't LIKE it.
   You got any solutions better than my offer to help the dude resist? Gotta start somewhere? or we can all just lie down and let all these US corporate and foreign govt. interests make a mockery of our game?
 The WWE apparently has an opening for another "athlete" maybe Yi's camp should apply there if they don't like free and open competition?

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 3, 2007 1:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

no matter how right you are
and how unjust the nba and Yi are, the fact of the matter is $$ talks. There is nothing illegal or even immoral about moving  Yi to a location that would make him feel comfortable, especially if the NBA is going to tap into a market of 1.1billion people because of him.

once again, it is not conclusive whether or not Yi is being selfish or the corporations are talking for him. Either case, what is certain is that:

1.) Looking at Yi as a case of a fortunate immigrant pursuing the American Dream (and therefore should be willing to make concessions) is extremely short sighted. The amount of money Yi will make for his entire career will be a tiny fraction of the money the NBA will make from him.

and i'll think i'll stop at 1. btw thx fuzzy for the compliment ^^

by dso on Jul 3, 2007 3:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This is getting old
I was not trying to make the assumption that Yi himself is the one bitching about the situation. My argument, and I believe others like myself, is that we are unhappy with the fact that his "camp" or his country are trying to force Milwaukee into trading him. We are just complaining about the fact that corporations and other factors are leading to this decision when it should be a strictly basketball decision. I agree with you that he may very well not give a rats behind where he plays and that everyone around him is the ones pulling the strings, but that doesn't make it right. We would like to think that the only thing that matters here is that Milwaukee Bucks thought he would be an asset to their team on the court and that is the reason why they drafted him. Maybe I'm missing something here, I dunno...

This whole topic has been more polarizing than George Dubya, but here is a little side question I have. I don't see how Milwaukee is much worse than Houston as far as booming asian populations are concerned. Do you think the Chinese government didn't make a stink about Yao going to Houston soley because he was the #1 pick? And if Milwaukee had the #1 pick this year and drafted Yi (just pretend Durant and Oden aren't here) would there still be such a stink? Now I don't have any numbers in front of me detailing the Asian populations of both cities, so I am goin on the assumption here that Houston is not exactly Shanghai West, but you know what they say about assumptions....

by Tony Stark on Jul 3, 2007 10:12 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wrong about Houston
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston

According to the article in wikipedia, Houston is the 4th largest city in the US and also home to a very large Asian community.

by ThermoElectro on Jul 3, 2007 10:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ah ha
See thats why I prefaced my comment with the fact that I was only assuming and had no actual numbers in front of me. I'm a little surprised that those numbers are so high, and I don't completely trust wikipedia all the time, but I will in this instance. Regardless, very interesting to hear that. Very encouraging too.

by Tony Stark on Jul 3, 2007 11:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Conspiracy theory for fun.
When Yao was coming out. He was known has the most likely #1 pick. Chinese gov't said they may not let him play. The day of the lottery picks and Houston won the first pick, Houston's mayor just happened to already be in China. He went stright over to the people in the gov't over seeing Yao and started to smooth them over.
The NBA was able to fix lottery, by many accounts this wanst the first time. They wanted Yao here and had to make sure he would go to the right team.

The problem with Yi is, he was not the best player in the draft. The NBA could not make a similar move. Creating the problem we have now.
I understand the Yi most likely is not the problem. The Chinese gov't has alot of say what happens to their citizens. (they also get alot of their salary to let them play here)

I also do not agree at all with it, because I believe the draft should not be messed with (ala manning, kobe, elway)This is just a sticky situation with so many parties involved. Only if there was a way to tell them. Hey you want him to play here, then for the first few years he has to go to whoever drafts him. Then when he is still young and profitable, he can sign with whoever. But things just are not that easy.

by Athletix Man on Jul 3, 2007 11:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

it should be a basketball decision
but unfortunately it's not. Stern et al is financially invested in protecting his products, not for their sake, but for the sake of the NBA (as any of these articles are showing). Of course Yi should have the say in where he goes and if Milwaukee picked him, then why not? But what I'm trying to argue is why blame the person who might actually have the least amount of say in the whole situation? Why are we not holding the NBA industry accountable as well for the limitations of Yi's mobility. Milwaukee might want thing, but does the actually corporation of the NBA, represented by David Stern, necessarily want the same thing. I'm not saying that it's right, if anything its exploitative to a large degree. But as fans, shouldn't we have the power to dictate what we want and don't want to happen? What could we do to ensure these shenangigans don't happen? I'm not really sure.. but its an interesting question...

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 3, 2007 12:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

RE:
But as fans, shouldn't we have the power to dictate what we want and don't want to happen?

One would hope so. Technically we are paying their salaries. However that's a tough argument to make since we also technically pay police officer's salaries but can't order them around like employees (although I have had that dream many a nights after a speeding ticket). But in the case of the NBA we do have the power to dictate what we want on a certain level, we just fail to exercise it. If you are unhappy with the product, stop paying for tickets to games, and stop buying merchandise. Since we have established in this discussion that indeed the NBA is just a business at heart, then once they stop becoming profitable, they will be forced to change.

by Tony Stark on Jul 3, 2007 1:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If you are unhappy with the product, stop paying
" for tickets to games, and stop buying merchandise. Since we have established in this discussion that indeed the NBA is just a business at heart, then once they stop becoming profitable, they will be forced to change"

 I guess they think they can cultivate the masses in china to the point where they can play in empty arenas over here and beam them the games followed by shipping containers full of NBA logo'd crap? But my guess is the Chinese gotta have real lives and will soon tire of following a far away USA game? Why the NBA? Don't they have any native sports over there??

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 3, 2007 1:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

uh..
how can you tell the Chinese to go play their own game when the NBA has actively pursued the foreign expansion of basketball. -_____- you are starting to sound ignorant, if not racist.

by dso on Jul 3, 2007 3:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The international game is softer
I'm sure Yi is talented and I'm hoping he does well here, but I think there is tons and tons of hype around his game.  Same with Yao.  Ultimately, these guys are soft.  Like most European players.  This is changing and the international players are bringing other good things to the game.  But where they lack is the aggressiveness and banging that Americans learn on every schoolyard.  It's a very different mindset and makes the difference between Baron having the instinct to just jam it down Kirilenko's throat instead of going for a higher-percentage putback.  This is why I would never build a team around Yao and why the Rockets aren't going to be winning anything with him.  And it's why I wouldn't want to mortgage the farm for Yi.  

While I hear your points about North America's very solipsistic viewpoint, I think in this case, people are right to be wary about Yi's basketball skills.  It is the same with Kukoc.  Huge hype and he couldn't win anything without Jordan.

by walkerp on Jul 3, 2007 7:44 AM PDT   0 recs

"solipsistic" on this site?
hats off, its a difficult word to define.  it has been watered down in colloquial usage to apply to a nation's isolationism or jingoism, but that can not apply because solipsism is the belief that nothing exists except your own mind.  on 2nd thought, it could be argued that the nation's mind follows the classical definition with its foreign policy.  i love the erudite discussion.  bring it on.

by eshock on Jul 3, 2007 9:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting post
Others have mentioned it but it bears focusing on: Yi appears to have little or no say in what is going on. The Chinese government and Nike seem to be the ones agitating for a trade. Yi seems like a cool enough guy.

I totally agree that players should be able to what Eli Manning or Francis or Yi are doing now. You don't have to like them, but its their choice to play hardball and try and get what they want. The Bucks were stupid to draft him if they had no plan to flip him.

But people are also right to be worried not just about this case, but future cases of nation-states using their marketing power to mess with the League we all love.

by matthewcc on Jul 3, 2007 8:23 AM PDT   0 recs

so...
Well since you guys still believe the league rigged the playoffs so San Antonio would win, why not let them rig the league to get Yi to his 'preferred' destination? I guess it makes sense from that standpoint.

The NBA is a business, but there are some exceptions, one of which is the draft. If Yi doesn't want to be available to all the teams, then he can sit out until he's 25 and avoid the draft entirely. Luckily he can just lie about his age the other way and that can come quite soon :-p

-Matt
BlogABull.com

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 8:47 AM PDT   0 recs

so...
Well since you guys still believe the league rigged the playoffs so San Antonio would win, why not let them rig the league to get Yi to his 'preferred' destination? I guess it makes sense from that standpoint.

Wow. Where did that come from? Where did "you guys" ever say that? If you're going to make that claim show exactly where that was said. Otherwise you're just putting words in people's mouth.
The NBA is a business, but there are some exceptions, one of which is the draft.

EXACTLY. THe NBA is a business, so why is there this double standard? It's a "business decision" when the Bucks try to draft money maker Yi. It's a "business decision" when the Warriors try to trim their payroll by dealing away JRIch and his remaining $50 million.

Isn't it a business decision when Yi's camp wants him to play in a large market with a strong Asian presence?

This double standard needs to go.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 3, 2007 9:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ok
eliminate the draft, minimum salaries, the cap, the tax, trade rules, etc...

Maybe the league can predetermine the results like Pro Wrestling and make sure 'exciting' teams make it to the finals each year too!

It's still a sport, and part of the 'business' is ensuring competition. And part of keeping fair competition is the draft.

-Matt
BlogABull.com

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 10:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

not so sure
Well you failed to back up your claim that we said the NBA was rigged for the Spurs to win, but we'll let that go.

The analogy to pro wrestling is quite amusing, but the point remains that there's a double standard when it comes to the "business decision" rhetoric. The NBA has brainwashed people into siding with big corporate interests rather than those of the individual (but of course this particular Yi case is messy because of the multitude of corporate interests representing conflicting angles). That's the point.

Cap "space"? Salary cap "relief"? It's similar to how Lakoff deconstructs "tax relief" in his work. There's no pain being inflicted anyone here. There's just rich, greedy, and incompetent (in Chris Cohan's case) owners getting richer and making fans delusional and think that that's good for them personally.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 3, 2007 10:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

it's not a double standard
it's a business, but the type of business it is makes it unique. In the NBA there's a lot of things that would be considered illegal in a normal marketplace (like the draft, age minimum or trades) but it's collectively bargained with the players and owners.

I don't get your 'brainwashing' comment in the least. Do people really not know how leagues work? I think the individual is doing just fine, and they have a players union that helps ensure as much.

The league owes the individual nothing outside of what is negotiated. If the owners didn't get 'richer' there'd be no league. Wouldn't that be fun for the fans.

-Matt
BlogABull.com

by your friendly BullsBlogger on Jul 3, 2007 10:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hyprocrisy police
atma,

dj's article and your arguments include a healthy dose of generalizations and hyperbole.

the fact that you call people on their hyperbole is actually quite amusing....and ultimately hypocritical.

how about this for exact words?:

"America identifies itself by making up some crazy ideas of Asia with no real quantifiable evidence then claims itself to be everything but that" - DJ

again, it's quite stunning that in an article (dj's main piece) that was meant to open people's eyes to the flaws of generalizations and stereo-typing, the commentary itself did the same.  

furthermore, it's my personal opinion that your commentary (dj and yours) comes across with a strong flavor of superiority, which ruins the good arguments that are made within.  i think calling people "brainwashed" and "delusional" is a bit over the top when you're trying to convey a reasoned theory.

i know you'll probably try to argue that you qualified your statements by saying "some people" and such like that...but that's not the way it comes across.

one aside: logic is lost when dj argues that "some people" don't like Yi trying to avoid Milwaukee, yet "some people" called for Oden and Durant to go to big markets?  what's the conclusion?  that people are hypocritical?  well, you didn't make your case, unless you can show that these are the same people.

so...MY point is this:  give people a little more credit.  this is a sports blog where people speak in hyperbole.  saying something like "hey yi, get your butt up there and play for milwaukee" shouldn't be construed as coming from the uneducated and unaware.  i know my geo-politics and world economic forces.  i also know my sports.  don't assume or imply that i'm delusional or brainwashed because i want the kid to play where he was drafted.  it's really pretty simple.

by TMC Forever on Jul 3, 2007 12:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

articulate
thanks djf for a thought provoking, articulate entry

the nexus between nation states, nba business, and individuals is a fascinating space to examine

by hardcore on Jul 3, 2007 9:26 AM PDT   0 recs

Ummmm. . .
Interesting post on Yi, but . . . .how about some coverage on the coming out party for Wright yesterday, thoughts on possible trades, etc?

I'm still strong on keeping and developing the kid, rather than packaging him, Monta and more for a guy who's only got 2-3 years left, at best.  (Indeed, I'd prefer Wright over Yi -- despite the latter's obvious appeal to Asian fans -- because I think the kid has real defensive abilities that Yi will never develop, and I think he'll be an eventual force offensively down low.)  My hope is for a sign and trade deal for either Varajao (a stop gap while Wright gets stronger) or Wallace (another Nellie-type), so long as the cost is relatively cheap (draft choices, deep bench players -- not Monta -- along with the JRich cap space).  

But I seem to be alone here on this "don't mortgage the team for a couple years of whatever KG's got left" kick, so we may be on the way to becoming an "old" team very quickly.  I hope not, but I sense the tide is against my preferences here.

by johnl on Jul 3, 2007 9:41 AM PDT   0 recs

Honestly
how about some coverage on the coming out party for Wright yesterday, thoughts on possible trades, etc?"

Fantasy Junkie and I were talking about this last night. We're both not sold he's going to be a Warrior for the long haul yet. He's on the trading block as part of a package for KG. We're just worried about getting everyone attached to him or even spending a ton of time analyzing his game when he might not even be a Warrior come October.

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 3, 2007 9:47 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Got Pulitzer?
this is --hands down-- the best blog I have seen posted on this sight... keep up the good work gentlemen!

I am a high school teacher in Oakland. I have a lot of Asian students - and we talked a lot about Yi during the season. We all watched his Youtube dunks with amazement. I know at least 10 Chinese kids who are/were looking forward to Yi playing in the NBA. My students would prefer to see Yi playing for the Warriors, but no matter... they will be wearing his jersey as soon as it is available!

" Sleepy Floyd is Superman!!!"

by CoachBarry on Jul 3, 2007 9:54 AM PDT   0 recs

Nice thought-provoking post., dj
You mentioned several valid points and articulated them very well.  There is no doubt that $$$ ultimately drives NBA policy like it does any other organization.  Where Yi ends up playing will work itself out in due course.  Some will be pleased, others won't.  What we don't need is to bring racial slurs into the discussion.  Let's just enjoy basketball and not get too worked up about the politics of it.  Keep up the good work!

by northwestpat on Jul 3, 2007 1:07 PM PDT   0 recs

I don't consider myelf ethnocentric, but
I believe that playing ball in China because Milwaukee isn't a large enough market makes no sense at all. I'm not talking about playing basketball FOR China, which is a completely different story. I mean the difference between the NBA (which is an international league) and ANY OTHER LEAGUE.

I do think jingoism, xenophobia, and most of racism should be called out, but I'm wary of too much social justice activism in sports blogs. What some people consider obvious truths -- like calling America an empire -- are less fact than opinion, and have the potential to alienate fans like myself who are politically moderate.

For the most part, however, I think the level of political discourse that finds its way onto these threads to be pretty modest. And if you have to walk the line between too politically correct and being offensive, it's probably better to error toward PC. After all, it IS a sports blog.

by Jeremy Belvins on Jul 3, 2007 6:04 PM PDT   0 recs

i think the admin of this site......
.....is obsessed with Yi just cuz they themselves are asian. Why wasnt there a "Jeff Green Movement," "Corey Brewer movement?" i'll bet if this site was in existance when Mengtke Bateer or Zhizhi Wang were entering the league there would have been a "Bateer/Wang movement." Lets focus on the Warriors.

by spartan21 on Jul 3, 2007 6:30 PM PDT   0 recs

further....
...the fact that we have "the Yi movement" still on the top of the page even after the draft is proof of this.

by spartan21 on Jul 3, 2007 6:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Stunning
You're absolutely brilliant. You figured us out. (sarcasm)

How about doing your homework and actually reading what's been said about Yi on this site by the "admin"(s) before posting your brilliant conspiracy theory?

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 3, 2007 6:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

WRONG
If that were the case, we'd also see the "Sun Yue" movement front page too, seeing as how he went in the 2nd round to the lakers..

by ThermoElectro on Jul 3, 2007 9:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

last summer
was so dry and dreary on the W front until Mullin pulled Nelson out of mothballs (couldn't trade Baron, couldn't trade Foyle, couldn't trade Dunleavy or Murphy, etc.) that any fresh "movement" became an oasis in the desert on this site. Yi movement was a joke, grew into a fascination, became a sincere interest, then a passion all based upon the response by us, not just the admin of GSoM. Ya did they hype it? Sure. Are some of the admin asian, ya. But did they exclude other stories? Not a chance, when Nelson came back this site went bananas, and there are countless other examples we could site that have zero asian bias. If there is any persistent bias on GSoM it's in another direction as far as I can see over the past year.

by hardcore on Jul 4, 2007 10:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yi movement
'Yi movement was a joke, grew into a fascination, became a sincere interest, then a passion all based upon the response by us"

    And now that the draft is over and we got wright why is it still on the header of the home page of the site?
Isn't that a bit dis-respectfull to our new boy? We got you Brandan but we want Yi?

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 5, 2007 11:26 AM