Why are the Bucks being praised for their "Courage"?

by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 7, 2007 11:05 AM PDT

Disclaimer #1: I know this was somewhat discussed DJ Fuzzylogic's Yi post: The Global Economic Logic to Yi's NBA Destination, but I wanted to focus on how the Bucks have seemingly seized the moral high ground in this debate. By that reasoning I don't think it's a "repost" of the same topic, rather a focused discussion of one facet of a larger issue. Also, way way too long for a comment.

Anyhow . . .

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/marty_burns/07/05/yi.bucks/1.html

Some around the league, in fact, are applauding Harris for not being cowed by the demands of an agent, while acknowledging that he might have taken a bit of a risk. . .

"They did the right thing," Williams added. "If he was really the guy they wanted, they should be applauded. They went with their gut and said, 'He's the guy and we'll teach him to like German food and bratwurst and 10-degree weather in January.' Yes, I would definitely respect them for what they did."

It's interesting how the Bucks are being praised for trying to "preserve the integrity of the system". This is the same system that a lot of people criticize for preventing poor, urban 18-year-olds from going into the NBA. Which, and I'm the first one to agree that everything in America has an element of racism involved (hooray for blanket statements that will distract from the main point of the post), is primarily about not paying for a population of players that will sit on the bench for a year. Instead they get to, as a group and with no competitive advantage to any team, pay for a more polished product that is more likely to produce sooner yet remain under team contractual control during more productive years (19-23 vs 18-22). That's pretty much institutional collusion. In other words, it benefits the wealthy owners.

This is not a moral issue, at least not the type of moral issue that the media and NBA team execs are making it out to be. It's about business and leverage. Yi and his "handlers" (a creepy term the media has adopted for this story) have some right now, albeit not a lot, and they are using it. As they should.

This is not a benevolent system, these owners are very very rich men who belong to a very exclusive investment club. They pay athletes millions of dollars because they make 100s of millions of dollars in return. The also continuously collude to make the system benefit that end. When the agents/players find a way to game the system, the owners (NBA/Stern) counter by changing the system: Salary Cap, Luxury Tax, Bird Rule, Arenas Rule etc . . . All designed to take leverage away from the players. Sound like any other institution you've been a part of? Hint: The Bucks owner, Herb Kohl, is a U.S. Senator.

So why are the Bucks, valued at $260M, being applauded for their moral fortitude?

Two reasons:

1. Spin. The Bucks want to paint this as a moral issue. The good guys trying to preserve order vs. the bad guys who want to upset the balance of this fair and egalitarian draft system. This is important because the Bucks have to sell this draft decision to its season ticket holders and the rest of their fan base.

What makes this spin job so easy?

2. The institutionalized morality of law. I think a lot of the NBA execs, not to mention most of the fans an the media, truly believe that, because the Bucks hold Yi's draft rights, they hold the moral high-ground. This is part of living in a 1st world society. We are taught to believe that: Rule = Good, Not Following the Rule = Bad. This is so ingrained in our consciousness that our first reaction is to side with the people following the rules because, after all, that's what good citizens do. So when we hear about Yi, telling the NBA that he's not going to follow the rules, our probable first reaction is "who the hell does this guy think he is? Why is he so special?". The same thing happened with the when T.O. wanted to renegotiate up his contract with the Eagles (why is Nellie getting the opposite reaction?). The Bucks and the NBA have this mindset on their side an it is a huge PR advantage.

All of this spin benefits the Bucks by applying more pressure on the Yi camp by painting him as a villain. That can not be helping his marketability. Also, the Bucks have now crafted a PR safety net for themselves if the Yi gamble doesn't pay off. Almost like "bad GM insurance" (see Twardzik, Dave). So now the worst case scenario is the Bucks lose Yi and come out looking like victims of an evil plot of questionable legality. Brilliant.

Disclaimer #2: Sorry for such a serious post. Blame the Pacers. If it weren't for them I'd still be spending all of my GSOM time writing "why Dunleavy is an overrated tool" posts (seriously, he's not a good passer!). Also, I know we're supposed to stay away from politics because this is a basketball (aka fun) blog, but this "basketball" issue is really about a complex political power struggle between a lot of wealthy parties (Bucks, China, Fegan, The NBA) trying to be spun as a black and white ethical issue. By that reasoning, I think this post is 95% justified/appropriate.

*********************************************************

I gave this diary a plug on Ballhype. Hype it up!

- Atma Brother #1

Ballhype - Why are the Bucks being praised for their "Courage"?

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Agree?

Uh huh

2 votes

Yep

0 votes

Totally

4 votes

Yes

3 votes

9 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

Excellent diary!

One thing I'll add to the "Why are the Bucks being praised for their 'Courage'?" debate is why aren't they being slammed for not having any pride?

Let's say Kobe Bryant ended up on the Warriors and he and his crew went public and said how much they disliked the Bay Area and the Warriors. Do I want him here? HELLNAW.

Have some pride Bucks. It's like this- If a girl doesn't want to go out on a date with you, you don't keep stressing her and moping because she won't go out with you. You take the high road and have pride and believe in yourself. Your stance should be- "Well if she doesn't want to go out with me, then she's not good not enough for me. I don't wanna go out with her."

Have some pride Milwaukee.

(apologies for the corny date example, but the Bucks look desperate here)

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 7, 2007 11:19 AM PDT reply actions

Agree

Excellent diary.
Love the example, Atma.
I was totally shocked when the Bucks selected him with the 6th pick while we heard all these media reports that Yi did not work out for them and did not/do not want to play for the Bucks.
They cannot blame Yi and his camp for this because they should have foreseen this mess and shouldn't have taken the chances.

by semarubaka on Jul 7, 2007 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions

The whole power issue

kind of supersedes the pride issue. This is almost like a test case to see if they'll need to change the rules again to establish a stiffer penalty for "draft dodgers". I seriously have no idea whether the Bucks and Senator Kohl really believe that Milwaukee is a good place for Asians (go look through some Bucks blogs and tell me you'd live there)or they are trying to synthesize an international marketplace by directing all that Asian attention there. How else are they going to get people to willfully drink Milwaukee's Best?

I think the pride issue is something the fans probably think about more than the Bucks. The Bucks surely understand Milwaukee's lack of appeal to someone from China (although Iowa City is a hot destination), but I think the people who live there are probably a bit hurt by this whole thing Who wants to be told their city is second rate (I'm talking to you San Jose!)? I think for the rest of the country, it's accepted that Milwaukee is not exactly your can't-lose ,multicultural destination, but I'm sure a lot of Milwaukeeians are surprised at Yi's apparent repulsion.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 7, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions

word

any idea what the bucks fans are making of all this? do they want Yi? how are they responding to the hype or anti-hype?

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 7, 2007 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions

I looked around the web for Bucks blogs

but I couldn't find any with much traffic. I think it's the same as the national debate: 75% criticizing Yi for not following the rules and 25% calling the Bucks stupid for drafting someone who was going to hold out.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 7, 2007 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions

GREAT EXAMPLE!

Wish i coulda had that advice in high school. but as they say, persistence pays off!

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 7, 2007 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Haha

Life lessons dogg. This is the stuff they don't teach you at school, but you learn at GSoM!

(haha kidding)

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 7, 2007 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions

seriously...

teachers should be assigning our posts in their classes! this woulda been helpful in the pre-awkward phases of middle school. perhaps an addendum to those lame sex-education videos.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 7, 2007 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions

It's like this-

"If a girl doesn't want to go out on a date with you, you don't keep stressing her and moping because she won't go out with you. You take the high road and have pride and believe in yourself. Your stance should be- "Well if she doesn't want to go out with me, then she's not good not enough for me. I don't wanna go out with her."

No, It actually like going to a whore house and paying your money and taking your pick! The bucks had the right to that whore.
I think you are bloodsweating donuts for nothing. This is EXACTLY how the system is susposta work! Milw. picked their choice, Yi can make his decision, the system works and everyone happy! Anyone who has a problem with it has a bigger problem!! There's a real world out there that needs this attention, wasting it on a game played by millionaires for billionaire owners is misguided.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 7, 2007 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions

This is an example of real world business and

politics. That's kind of the point of the post. Which is this that functions exactly like the real world. I'm not saying it's bad or good, I'm saying using what leverage in a a business deal isn't morally reprehensible by "real world" standards.

This involves hundreds of millions of dollars, a US Senator and the Chinese government, not to mention the great city of Milwaukee. That's pretty "real-world".

For the record, I only bloodsweat donuts specifically. Never for nothing. Ever.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 7, 2007 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions

quick response....

No, It actually like going to a whore house and paying your money and taking your pick! The bucks had the right to that whore.

I think you are bloodsweating donuts for nothing.

Seriously, there's no reason to post to this. You're neither contributing to this discussion nor fostering a healthy blog environment. I mean the only reason I could see that you resort to this style is because without them, your points wouldn't be interesting enough for anyone to even pay attention to... If that isn't the case, just prove me wrong. Write something that's thoughtful.

This is EXACTLY how the system is susposta work! Milw. picked their choice, Yi can make his decision, the system works and everyone happy! Anyone who has a problem with it has a bigger problem!! There's a real world out there that needs this attention, wasting it on a game played by millionaires for billionaire owners is misguided.

I don't understand the point with your statement, "Anyone who has a problem with it has a bigger problem!!" Care to elaborate?
Yes ideally, basketball should be about the game, the fans and those directly involved with the game. However, in the real world, it's not that simple. Politics is in its essence a power struggle. And if wealth is power, then anytime institutions with large amounts of money are involved, then you can be sure politics are going to be part of the situation.

Well, in an ideal situation teams and players wouldn't bend the rules to effect the outcome of the draft right? I mean if it's wrong for a prospect to affect the draft then it's also wrong for a team to effect the outcome, correct?

Well, apparently you hold a double standard for that situation..

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2007/2/21/6394/36923

Skeptic on tanking for a higher draft pick and the skill it takes to make it happen.

Because it would be harder to lose enough games to get a good draft pick than it would be to limp into the 8 position of the playoffs.
The mental discipline required to lose games now but knowing it would payoff later is greater than that needed to keep playing for #8. Same as saving for a house or retirement, it's easier to just spend the money now on stuff and end up with short term pleasure but long term pain.
It's all very logical if you look at it from a neutral position and examine the benefit of 4 more possible ganes this year or perhaps a larger benefit for many years to come?

by ThermoElectro on Jul 7, 2007 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Missing the point

The Bucks had every right to pick Yi, but why did they pick him? He and his camp did not want him going there. My point is that the Bucks should have some pride- if Yi & crew doesn't want to go to Milwaukee they should say- "Look, if you don't want to play here, we don't want you here." Instead they're embarrassing themselves and dragging this out with resulting headlines and stories about how Yi and crew won't even return their calls.

In all seriousness- has someone hijacked your account? You used to write so many intelligent things here, but lately you've been writing some pretty outlandish comments (comparing The Yi Movement to GW Bush's "rise" to office"), misreading, and putting words in people's mouths. Or is it just the Yi topic?

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 7, 2007 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions

The Bucks had every right to pick Yi,

"but why did they pick him? He and his camp did not want him going there"

Duh..cause that's their job, to pick whoever they think will give them the most return for their pick! They don't have to justify it to us, if they can't pick who they want then why bother having a draft, just let the players pick their cities?
If you guys wanna change the draft rules next time I don't care but stop complaining when they play out exactly as they should. I'd like Oden but I'm not bitching that the system didn't let us claim him! Yi is not our problem, we din't draft him so why do we really care what Milw. and the Yi camp do? Next season he will either be playing there, somewhere else, or sitting out, lets just let the system do it's thing.
All this hype reminds me of those shows like Nancy Grace that comtemplate every possible scenario of a case instead of waiting for the trial and reporting the facts when it's over, are you guys just pumping the Yi story to increase hits? Are you using me? I feel so cheap!

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 7, 2007 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Missing the point- AGAIN

You keep failing to address my point that the Bucks don't have any pride. Not much more I can say.

All this hype reminds me of those shows like Nancy Grace that comtemplate every possible scenario of a case instead of waiting for the trial and reporting the facts when it's over, are you guys just pumping the Yi story to increase hits?

You're exactly right. We never had any traffic or people on this sight until the Yi stories. Without Yi this blog is nothing. (sarcasm)

For a guy who likes to complain about how much we talk about Yi, you sure have a hard time not talking about Yi or letting people have their discussions and stepping out if you're not "interested".

by Atma Brother ONE on Jul 7, 2007 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions

You keep failing to address my point

" that the Bucks don't have any pride. Not much more I can say"
"you sure have a hard time not talking about Yi or letting people have their discussions and stepping out if you're not "interested"."

You don't need to say anything, just read.
The Bucks don't have to mold their pride to your lame dating example. The bucks don't have to please you or even know you exist to have pride. They might be proud of what they think is a good job scouting Yi thru their chinese ties? Who knows? It kinda pompAss of you to say they don't have pride cause they snatched up yoor movement!
As I said before not speaking up against "movements" by fanatical groups can ruin your whole day. The Yi movement would impact the warriors so I feel like the right thing to do is talk it down. The Milw. draft makes Yi an non-problem to us so why not let them deal with it? I'd be glad to see the whole thing go away.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 8, 2007 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions

i'd be glad to see the whole thing go away

by "whole thing" do you mean the YI movement? Are we even talking about the "Yi Movement" in this post? Has Atma even mentioned bringing Yi here? Your continuously ignorant to the fact that us talking about YI is to talk about hoops at-large and to have a discussion that has NOTHING to do with your fears of race-based decision making (btw. don't you think Milwaukee made a race-based decision based on the $ they could have made off of him? Check the articles dude all over the web dude). In another post with the aim of complicating your simplistic, parochial attitudes towards thinking about Yi not as a pick based on race for race sake, you need to think again. It's as if you're walking into a meeting to discuss campaign finance reform and arguing that chipmunks are dying. In this case and the other, we're not even talking about Yi in reference to the Yi movement so give it a rest, geez. If this post was about drawing Yi to California, maybe your comment might actually have some relevancy.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 8, 2007 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions

re Buck's pride

they're swallowing their pride for two related reasons

the Yi group, whoever that is composed of, has obliquely not spoken publicly one way or the other about playing in Mil (at least not that I've seen, could be wrong) so the Bucks may be trying to allow them to "come back" into the fold (others refer to saving face, but that cultural reference is not 100% applicable here imho).
if Bucks get pissed from pride and deal Yi's rights, they know damn well that they'll get fleeced

the fact that the Bucks picked Yi validates his potential - no one had a more intimate scouting report than Mil did whether they worked him out or not, and that they took a gamble on him despite the warning signs that he might be tough to 'bring home" means they see a huge upside ... this could all simmer down and be forgotten in a month: Yi might sign and have 3-4 great years with that Bucks lineup, which I'm sure they are hoping for. A little pride now for a potentially dynamite force ...

by hardcore on Jul 8, 2007 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions

especially considering that their were some

awesome players still on the board. Brewer, Wright, etc.

by travisl212 on Jul 7, 2007 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions

psh

Dunleavy is still totally overrated, theres no reason not to be posting that!! Anyways, in all seriousness, I have to wonder about a team drafting a player they have never worked out. It just doesn't seem, whats the word I'm looking for, smart? Never mind that the Bucks already have two young quality bigs, if you haven't seen what a player can do close up, it isn't a good idea to draft them. Portland had the easiest decision to make, and they still worked out Durant and Oden. I agree with Atma on this one, it would be best for the Bucks to move on of their own accord. If they make a deal now, say for a backup PG or to clear cap space for Mo Williams, they could actually get a reasonable value value for Yi. If they wait for his agents to say he won't play and demand a trade, they can say goodbye to their bargaining power. As an aside, in kind of sick of people sticking Yi for this issue, I really think his agents are making the majority of the decision here. Why didn't anyone make a big deal when Iverson or Kobe demanded to be traded. Yea there was alot of media attention, but there was very little 'they should just shutup and deal with it' talk going on. Iverson shot down several potential destinations, nobody really said anything about that. I have a little more sympathy for a kid who is coming in from a foreign country, and would like to be in a place where he has something of a guaranteed support community, than say someone with 3 championship rings deciding his team isnt good enough to get him anymore rings and moving on.

by FoyledAgain on Jul 7, 2007 12:23 PM PDT reply actions

Devil's Advocate..

I have to wonder about a team drafting a player they have never worked out. It just doesn't seem, whats the word I'm looking for, smart?

Buck's GM Larry Harris is the son of Del Harris. Del coached the Chinese National team and played a hand in developing Yi as a player. Word is that Larry got all his info from his dad. So really, he's not totally stupid. So in a sense the Bucks did get a talent evaluation that is just as good if not better than the teams that Yi worked out for.

by ThermoElectro on Jul 7, 2007 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions

True

I didn't mean to completely bash the Bucks here, they have done a fairly good job building up their team and have been hit unfairly by the injury bug. I still think that if a team is going to draft a player, someone directly involved in the organization should have seen what he can do first hand.

by FoyledAgain on Jul 7, 2007 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Here's where I don't agree with you...

I remember reading awhile back a piece Nellie's talent evaluation style. He never talked to any of his scouting prospects or wanted any contact directly. Why not? b/c that prospect will never give you an accurate indication of what he can or can't do.

In the case of yi, you have a source , family no less, that not only watched him play day in and day out but also coached him so moreso than anything, he has intimate knowledge of what Yi is capable and incapable of. Add to the fact that he's family and a well respected NBA coach, and what's not to trust about his judgement? Remember, those private workouts were extremely controlled situations. Yes those teams are able to see Yi up close, but they're only able to see what Yi and his handlers choose to show. So, one can conclude that Harris' scouting report is more complete than that of the approved teams.

Where the bucks f'd up is that they didn't take the non-invitation seriously. One thing to consider, everyone talking about how the audacity of Yi to reject milwaukee. Well, from a Chinese government perspective, consider the audacity of which Milwaukee and the NBA has to go against the wishes of a national government? I wouldn't expect most of you to understand this but if you study Chinese foreign relations in history, you'll understand how much the Chinese ruling government throughout history has placed a huge emphasis on respect. Yes, it's far fetched, and I don't expect most of you to understand this. But it does explain a lot. Remember, Yi represents a part of China, Yi looking bad is also bad for not only Chinese basketball but also the institution of Chinese sports in general. That's why the government really wants him in an ideal city and in an ideal situation. Unfortunately, Milwaukee is not that...

by ThermoElectro on Jul 7, 2007 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions

The "face" thing is a really good angle

I wonder what the Bucks could give, in the way of a gesture of consolation, that would even out the respect. From that perspective, I think both sides have painted themselves into a corner. I don't see a way out with both sides saving face. The Bucks would have to concede something big, and I can't think of anything that would compensate for a direct affront like this one.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Jul 7, 2007 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions

ps did GSW work out Wright before drafting him?

by hardcore on Jul 7, 2007 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions

i think this is a great post

not just because i talk about some similar issue in the link you posted. hehe.

but really, linking senator Kohl into the whole equation makes the whole thing more complicated. Not that Kohl can't own a basketball team but it forces folks to realize how politics is tangled with basketball no matter how much we want to deny it (and many people do even as they know it). its intereseting how their spinning it as a "moral" issue or an attempt at "maintaining the integrity of the draft" has got so many people fooled. fooled in what way???

to the haters that believe that the bay just wants him for racial reasons fails to think why other places want him for racial reasons as well. In some dude's link about Milwaukee LOVING Yi, all across the board it was for the billion dollar financial goals and development for the city, not necessarily for his game. true, the draft in some ways, should create equality, but people need to start thinking about who's really involved in these transactions. Stern for that matter could give a crap about parity: the dude said straight up several times that 7 games series are to prevent upsets, maintaing a status quo of whos on top and bottom...the NBA is not neutral folks. Spinning this as a "moral" issue is a strategy to make you believe milwaukee isn't doing this for the $$$, which is absolute BS.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 7, 2007 12:40 PM PDT reply actions

all's fair in love and war

thanks for v.gd post ... I agree with your first point and most of second, er maybe all of it and then some ... Henry David Thoreau, Gandhi, Mandela, MLK Jr all used the moral high ground to defeat unjust laws. None of Yi's situation seems very "moral" however - as you and others point out it's political and economic. I don't subscribe to the "take whatever you can get away with" philosophy, but in matters of naked capitalism like the NBA it doesn't seem like anyone should be faulted for using whatever leverage they can find.

The draft is a gamble, every year team's take a risk - some work, some don't. Bucks gambled, and may lose some in the process. Yi is gambling, and risking not only millions but his NBA future as well (there's no guarantees esp w/PRC). Whoever trades for his rights is gambling, and leveraging - what I'm trying to say I guess is that this system is working the way it's supposed to imo.

by hardcore on Jul 7, 2007 2:44 PM PDT reply actions

agree

I like how all your options in the poll are only "yes". hahaha

I do think the Bucks do have a right to draft Yi, not just for institutional reasons(NBA Draft) but because that's how it would even work on the playground. You are allowed to pick anyone that is available when making teams.

But as a fan of the NBA and chinese players, I would rather see players develop to their full potential and I really do think Yi would fare better on a team that plays his style and has an extra supportive fan population.

by ballerjl on Jul 7, 2007 6:12 PM PDT reply actions

UMMM...

So if they can pick whoever they think will give them the most return for their ummm pick, then why would they pick a player that won't give them anything in return? That just doesn't make any sense. They might as well have picked a pickled pepper!

"GO BIG or GO HOME!!!"

by scottiepimppen on Jul 8, 2007 1:45 PM PDT reply actions

Is this a sports related site......

,,,,,or a daytime soap site? I am not a professional writer, however, even an amatuer like me knows a little about verbs, nouns, opinions, and facts. Oh don't get me wrong, I have written some articles in my day. 3 published articles for group newspapers/newsletters.....not much of a career but, it didn't take long to realize I wasn't up for writing and/or fighting with editors, or the people who do the printing. I have not taken off with the whole "blogging" thingy majingy.....I have a few I peruse - this happens to be one of them.
So, why does a Milwaukee Bucks fan surf on this blog? Well, for me it started with Yi. I have been here and there with the rumors of a trade both before and after the draft. I don't mind Don Nelson (Nelli as we called him) and I was amazed that David (Warriors) knocked off Goliath (Dallas). Since I have been here; a few of the articles, messages, blogs, and a whole lot of general "hot air" has me where I am. This will be my 2nd post.....no formalities have been made with anyone here; "Howdy" My name is Jason, and I am from Wisconsin (The "good ole boy" network alluded to by some).
Richard Steele has given me my instructions - I will start from the very beginning....and come out swinging......figuratively, not literally.
Bloodsweatndonuts what was the purpose of your original written statement? It is all contextually opinionated.....no factual statements, or reports. All opinions. Before you square off with me - lets break it down.
Some around the league, in fact, are applauding Harris for not being cowed by the demands of an agent, while acknowledging that he might have taken a bit of a risk. . .
"They did the right thing," Williams added. "If he was really the guy they wanted, they should be applauded. They went with their gut and said, 'He's the guy and we'll teach him to like German food and bratwurst and 10-degree weather in January.' Yes, I would definitely respect them for what they did."

This is an excerpt from an interview. Now your first paragraph:
It's interesting how the Bucks are being praised for trying to "preserve the integrity of the system".(This is your opinion here - not what was reported. No one said preserve the integrity of the system....it was; "Some around the league, in fact, are applauding Harris for not being cowed by the demands of an agent" This is the same system that a lot of people criticize for preventing poor, urban 18-year-olds from going into the NBA. (I am not certain this supports your first sentence or why it was inserted here - again, your opinion.) Which, and I'm the first one to agree that everything in America has an element of racism involved (hooray for blanket statements that will distract from the main point of the post), is primarily about not paying for a population of players that will sit on the bench for a year. (Prejudiced - hmmm is that word used anymore? Racism? Where in the hell is that from (either an earlier article or left field....readers choice) Instead they get to, as a group and with no competitive advantage to any team, pay for a more polished product that is more likely to produce sooner yet remain under team contractual control during more productive years (19-23 vs 18-22). That's pretty much institutional collusion. In other words, it benefits the wealthy owners.

In this whole paragraph there is no written words to give credit or discredit the original excerpt you used Talk about a real spin job, maybe even a hand job again readers choice. you used an excerpt from someone else - and ranted into several other issues: racism, dissatisfaction with current system....hell you used cut and paste on the reporters original interview and still got it wrong.
We delve deeper into the great writings:

This is not a moral issue? Now this is another twist, unless of course by alluding to morality you are mirroring back to the "praising of Harris for standing up to preserve the integrity of the system" - either way, if not for crappy sentence structure (paragraph structure too), you have not attracted your readers - you are really just serving up some more good ole opinions. What leverage exactly does Yi have and where does that help Harris from preserving the integrity of the system? How can Yi use that leverage? How does it apply?
In continuation.....
This is not a benevolent system, these owners are very very rich men who belong to a very exclusive investment club. (Not a fact, opinion) They pay athletes millions of dollars because they make 100s of millions of dollars in return. ( This is what some people call the "business") The also continuously collude to make the system benefit that end. (In the wake of a Player's Association.....it hardly suprises me the owners would get together - Collusion....again, your opinion) When the agents/players find a way to game the system( exactly what do we mean by "gaming" the system? Having guns and drunk driving - dog fighting, beating wives/girlfriends(Ray Carruth killed his)- smoking pot taking steroids? Or are we talking about averaging 10 points a game with 3 assists 20 turnovers- and an overall give me my money, my own shoes, my own playstation3 and a recliner in the locker room (see Bonds) for the highest salary possible - oh and guarantee it all. If I go to jail, blow my knee out, beat up people in the stands or choke my coach-I want to appeal to my fans, and the reporters that its not only my age - but because I am black that I can"t do this), the owners (NBA/Stern) counter by changing the system: Salary Cap, Luxury Tax, Bird Rule, Arenas Rule etc . . .( What is and where is the relevancy?) (What do you mean I have to dress up in a suit? Why can't I have my posse show up at practices and game nights? What do you mean I can't sign the rights to that kid in 3rd grade? How fair is that? I can't spit in the referees face? That dude over there threw a beer on me - I couldn't get him so, I got those 2 bitches sitting right next to him) All designed to take leverage away from the players. (Tape recording from Milwaukee front office:
Kohl: Lenny how many Chinese people living here in Wisconsin do you figure?
Harris: Well, according to the Farmer's Almanac - and in cross referencing the 2006 Census....about 176. They just opened that Chinese resteraunt over on 4th st though. Probably 180 Chinese solid.
Kohl: Yeah, the Wangs'. Had lunch over there yesterday. Say Lenny what do you think of this Yi kid?
Harris: Well, don't know much about him. My Dad won't talk, wouldn't send any tapes or video. Wouldn't clue me on anything. Those "handlers" - they are awful......tell me not to talk to him, not to come see him, not to draft him - hell the one guy told us not even to look at him.
Kohl: This magazine says he is soft, and won't be able to handle the physical play in "our" league? That true?
Harris: Well he was in the CBA - I don't know, let me try Dad.
Kohl: That was a good run you had last year Coach K, winning 3 in a row at the end....what did we finish 11 games under .500? Damn referees....they have too much leverage.
(Lenny Harris arguing with Operator in background: Whadda you mean he won't accept charges?
Coach K: Yeah, I hear you. That trade for Villanueava - and bringing Simmons in.....pretty much sealed the deal for us Senator.....good moves. Get me a point guard on Draft night.....we are going to the Summit.
Harris: Damnit he won't talk.
Kohl: The marketing of our team is way down guys. Not selling enough jerseys and apparrel...ticket sales down....damn fans they have to much leverage.
(Michael Redd appears: Herb, I just want to make sure I am getting paid for mileage on this whole Team USA basketball tryout, I am right? By the way you know we need a point guard right?
KohL: Sure Mike anything for you. Got enough money for meals and stuff?
Kohl:Men I just decided it. We need to sell more apparrell and tickets. We need to globalize.....this will ensure our place in history, as a dynasty. We pick Yi.....sell those ummm how many Chinese people in Wisconsin Lenny?
Harris: About 180
Sound like any other institution you've been a part of? Hint: The Bucks owner, Herb Kohl, is a U.S. Senator.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is just 1 fancy spin job by a guy who is a fan of the Warriors.......pretty much having fun at Milwaukees' expense.

As a diehard sport fan.....I really do not need to break down the draft in any sport to any one. Its simple.....and its in place for the benefit of the team, and benefit of the league. If YOUR (whatever team name you want to put here) was to win a championship season....and draft Oden, and Durant....and use the free agency system effectively - what would that mean for the other teams.....not even in 1 year.....say in 10 years....the league would be f____ed - and WE all know it.
So if Yi ends up in Golden State - let me see. He won't have played in the weak CBA, and he will play MORe physical. plus because Golden State was at his workouts....and because of the demographics - that would plkease all huh? Everyone kisses everyone and Golden State is in the playoffs right?
Oh and Golden State would NEVER exploit Yi right?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I was going to go on.........but its a moot point. You guys are working overtime in the offseason.......and haven't EVEN talked about how rare it would be for your team to walk through the WEST to reach the finals next year.

Maybe, just maybe if you talked and posted on Golden States' [problems and weaknesses) and what it will take to get back - well that would take you up till October.

by meandering2007 on Jul 8, 2007 4:22 PM PDT reply actions

Sorry to be rude, Meandering

But I didn't understand a word you just wrote.

It's too bad, because I'm actually a receptive audience: as a reader, I find a lot of this Yi "debate" vague, poorly reasoned, and riddled with strawmen and political agendas. I sympathize with some of the individual points, but I've totally lost track of the central argument, on both sides.

I was hoping you, as an outsider, might add a bit of perspective to the discussion. Instead, you've taken it to new depths of incoherence and inanity.

You may well "know a little about verbs, nouns, opinions, and facts," but you don't have the slightest idea how to form them into coherent sentences and paragraphs. Learning how to use the various punctuation marks might be a good place to start.

Honestly, it's not like I expect people on blogs to be writers, "amatuer" or otherwise, but most of us here are able to express our ideas, by hook or by crook. You seem to have gone straight to Joycian stream-of-consciousness without first learning how to write a simple declarative sentence.

You seem like you might have a few interesting things to say. Take a few basic English classes and get back to us.

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 8, 2007 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Sleepy Freud.......

Don't look now another pseudo intellect. I use real "big" words, in being indirect, (on both sides)Went 3rd person in introspect(It's too bad, because I'm actually a receptive audience: as a reader)..SleepyFreud
you're suffering from "penis envy", or "vaginal dryness" sadly, I suspect.

Sorry to be rude, Meandering
But I didn't understand a word you just wrote
Maybe your trouble is innermost.....
Declarative sentences? Maybe you should look close. In all you profoundness, it seems you are "king" of prose.
You understood. That's the reason you took the time to post.Maybe feeling inferior, I suspect the most.
Rude(implying I care :))? No... an A__hole, egomaniac, an english teacher, a creep, a moron....I pretend not to suppose,
Go back to your diary and repose.

Are you a reader as in , by youself? (I've totally lost track of the central argument, on both sides.)
.......or speaker for all? ( Most of "US" here)..
Since you claim to be clueless.....tell me, what is your call?
Which is it....you didn't understand? Or is it..." I find a lot of this Yi "debate" vague, poorly reasoned, and riddled with strawmen and political agendas".....that you {airguitaring} for THIS (Most of "US" here) band?
Use of "strawmen" was rather witty,
saying you didn't understand was "kinda" shitty!
Which is it almighty one, are you "Oh so cool"?
Or are you the "veiled" one, playing a fool? Going back to where it all started, I thought of a line, forgot it - and farted.

I detect a note of condescension. A "twang" of whine,
OH! Meandering don't leave exclamation points, or periods behind!
My writing and use of punctuation;(Learning how to use the various punctuation marks might be a good place to start)appear to your dismay!
The audacity to inject...."You seem like you might have a few interesting things to say. Take a few basic English classes and get back to us."
Fuck You SleepyFreud...who says I'm your protege?

A coin can land on either side, fuck head.....PICK one, and make your point. I really see no constructiveness out of your post.....rather than attack ALL of the others who ranted and raved, you picked me out. Surely, you didn't conclude "strawmen" out of my story....you didn;t understand remember?

Just another case of the "man" trying to hold us down.....ha ha

by meandering2007 on Jul 9, 2007 1:31 PM PDT reply actions

He killed

his own argument.
The Bucks' picked Yi as a marketing ploy as stated in the original writing.....yet, its stated there isn't a ample amount of Chinese people in Wisconsin.
Wheres the big marketing going to be derived from?
Would it not be a more suitable argument slanted at the "bigger" markets? LA, Boston, East coast West coast.....whatever, wouldn't they be the ones gulty of taking him to make more money?

I am only replying to what was the source of a lot of things said: scandals, racism, ploys - etc. etc,

If Wisconsin has no Chinese people, who are they marketing YI to? The farmers?

Villanueva was hurt. Bogut was hurt. The whole team was hurt. Dan Gadzuric is overrated.....where is all the talented "bigs: I hear about on this roster? Villanueva will be on the watch list for Harris....we traded Ford for this guy - and virtually got nothing in return so far. This team must move forward for Harris' sake...and his job.
Yi clearly was the BPA (Best player available) at that pick.
Brewer/ who I feel will be another T Prince......isn't what we needed. A swingman? Cmon!

by meandering2007 on Jul 9, 2007 1:47 PM PDT reply actions

a response that you posted

to me in another post, actually answered your own argument. it is just about attracting Asian fans to games but about attracting international business to invest in the development of Milwaukee. Senator Kohl wasn't quoted as saying that, but local businesses were interviewed and interested in the prospects of working with chinese businesses and increasing tourism.

by dj fuzzylogic on Jul 9, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions