The Roster - someone's not making the team...

by EternalWarriorsOptimist on Aug 7, 2007 9:11 AM PDT Comment 33 comments

Yesterday, Janny Hu wrote on SFGate about the current state of the roster:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?blogid=39&entry_id=19205

Here's the depth chart from that article:

PG: Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, Sarunas Jasikevicius
SG: Stephen Jackson, Marco Belinelli, Kelenna Azubuike
SF: Matt Barnes, (Mickael Pietrus)
PF: Al Harrington, Austin Croshere, Brandan Wright
C: Andris Biedrins, Kosta Perovic, Patrick O'Bryant, Adonal Foyle

We all know that Pietrus hasn't resigned yet and that if no other team wants to use their MLE on him, then we'll probably get him back on the cheap. The name I was surprised to see missing from this list was Stephan Lasme. Atma wrote a couple weeks ago that we had signed both Wright and Lasme at the same time:
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2007/7/16/161442/199

But looking on RealGM, it says that we only signed Wright:
http://www.realgm.com/src_recent_transactions/2008/07/

Personally, I'm really hoping Lasme makes the team somehow. Maybe Pietrus will resign with another team or maybe Cabbages will head back to the Euroleague, as streetballer posted a few days ago:
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2007/8/6/112521/7728

Lasme's college numbers were impressive:
http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/bviewplayer.asp?Player=25794
Not to mention that he's one of only 3 players in NCAA history to get 4 triple doubles in one season:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=270590113
(of course he got his triple doubles the hard way: rodmans + points + BLOCKS!)

What does everyone think about the state of the roster? Is there any hope of getting rid of Foyle? (sorry Zorgon) How come we haven't signed Lasme yet?

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

No need to apologize to Zorgon

Foyle is who he is, an elder stateman of good will who got a huge payday because Mully had no clue what he was doing early on. You can see he is now letting the market determine the value of a player and ergo, here comes Barnes and maybe MP "on the cheap".

But to address your question, I doubt if the Dubs are finished with off season moves. My hope is at least Cabbages and MP are out of The City unis and at least Lasme gets signed. My second hope would be we just cut POB like we did Taft and find a place for Josh Powell. My biggest hope, however, looking at your depth chart, is we find a way to sign a very servicable back up PG to spell Baron and keep him healthy for at least the majority of the season. I just don't see Monta making it at PG and I would move Jax over to SF along with Barnes.

You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"

by commish on Aug 7, 2007 9:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Three things

makes me think that Monta will the backup PG for BD. a) it is rumored be pree (http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22957.shtml) that Monta is working on his handle and passing this summer. b) Among those selected for the Men's select team (http://www.usabasketball.com/news.php?news_page=07_msnt_select_team) only Brooks (Rockets) is PG and Monta and Harris (Mavs) are both considered combo guard but playing PG in their respective teams. c) He is being groomed as the PG of the Dubs per Mulson.

If ever, I think Pierce will it be because Mullin likes the guy in spite of his baggage. I believe Mullin will create roster space for Lasme and Pierce.

Additional link for Lasme: http://umassathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/lasme_stephane00.html

by muritqua on Aug 7, 2007 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Roster Tinkering

I would get rid of both Sarunas Jasikevicius and Adonal Foyle. Their salaries are both atrocious to us at a respective $4M and $8M per year. We could use that money to re-sign Mickael Pietrus or get ourselves a good backup PG in Earl Boykins ;)

by Phil T28 on Aug 7, 2007 10:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

look a few diaries below...

OptionZero posted a diary called "report: warriors pulled offer to josh powell" and it was about how he wanted a multi-year contract, but the warriors aren't going to give it to him... which is the right thing to do since they aren't even giving Barnes a multi-year deal and he was an integral piece for the team last year regular and post season.

If you could just dump sarunas and Adonal I'm sure it would have been done a long time ago. I don't know why you want Pietrus back, his improvements to his game over the years have been minimal at best, and he won't come that cheap. With the signing of Barnes, Croshere and Perovic in the last week or so, I am happy that the roster slots are diminishing as time goes by b/c I do not want to see Pietrus continue to turn the ball over on unforced errors such as stepping out of bounds and traveling.

As far as bringing back Earl, how about no. The one thing about the warriors guards is that they aren't that undersized. Its hard for teams to match up size and strength wise with Baron, and almost impossible for anyone to match Monta's speed. Earl is somewhat quick, but he's so small. They could take him to the block all day long.

by david240z on Aug 7, 2007 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If

no one offers a contract to Pietrus then we have to keep him, I believe. Since we tendered him a contract we're bound by it and we aren't able to retract our offer. His offered contract is already counting against the cap and he still fills a roster spot. So unless someone offers him a bigger contract/multi year deal, we're stuck with him for another year.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Aug 7, 2007 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

DAMN

that sucks about us having to keep him if nobody wants him. I really do not want him coming back to the team. with the addition of belinelli and bookie to the actual roster for this 07/08 season, the need for another swingman... well we just don't need another. Not that Belinelli is an actual swingman, I think he's pretty versatile and if needed, could play a 3 spot, but I'd prefer him in the 2. Also put barnes into that picture, w/ Jackson, there just isn't any room for that position.

I really hope that they start filling up the 4 and 5 spot by moving some more bodies around, but you never know. I don't hate Earl, I just don't think he belongs on our team. With the exception of a few of our bench players, we're a decently sized team and everyone can get above the rim with ease, except maybe foyle who doesn't normally get any higher than the bench he rides.

by david240z on Aug 7, 2007 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

"maybe foyle who doesn't normally get any higher than the bench he rides"

lmao

by thewarriorsrule on Aug 7, 2007 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not quite

Qualifying offers can be withdrawn. The Warriors could decide that they don't want Pietrus and take back their offer, but they have to give him until Oct 1 to decide. If he is still shopping for another team at that point, the Warriors can recall the offer at that point and offer him less or offer him nothing.

by jae on Aug 7, 2007 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So,

if Pietrus hasn't accepted the qualifying offer by Oct. 1st, the Warriors can withdraw it? But if he accepts it before then, they have no choice?

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 7, 2007 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

qualifying offer

You can pull the offer anytime you want before acceptance.

After acceptance, then you're locked in.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Aug 7, 2007 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The actual CBA language

Here's the actual text from the collective bargaining agreement:

"(i) A player who receives a Qualifying Offer must be given at least until the October 1 following its issuance to accept it, but in no event may a Qualifying Offer be accepted after the March 1 following its issuance. Notwithstanding the preceding sentence, a Qualifying Offer may be withdrawn by the Team at any time through the July 23 following its issuance. If the Qualifying Offer is not withdrawn on or before July 23, it may be withdrawn thereafter but only if the player agrees in writing to the withdrawal. "

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-XI.php

As I read that, it means you can withdraw the offer before July 23rd, or after Oct 1. In that period in between, you need the player's approval to do so.

by jae on Aug 7, 2007 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's how I read it , also

So, until Oct. 1st, the Warriors have to assume that $3.5 million is going towards Pietrus, unless he accepts another offer (looking more unlikely), or if they work out a S&T.

by San Francisco Slim on Aug 7, 2007 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Warriors offered Barnes multi-year

But, he wanted a one year deal to prove himself for a larger payday (in MSM coverage). Good luck because 08 is the year of the free agent, even with KG off the list. Maybe it was a face-save.

by eshock on Aug 7, 2007 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Barnes

I don't think it's that we wouldn't give Barnes a multi-year deal as much as he didn't want to take a multi year deal at the price offered. He thinks that he can make more money in a year and doesn't want to be tied down to a contract starting at the base pay the Warriors offered. Since the amount a contract can go up from year to year is based on the initial year's dollar value, he would be locked into smaller raises based on the smaller 1st year the Warriors had for him.

by jae on Aug 7, 2007 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

FYI

Good PG and Earl Boykins don't belong in the same sentence, Boykins is an atrocious PG.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Aug 7, 2007 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Earl is allergic to passing. And you know when the Warriors look good its when the ball is moving and the play is fluid. Which is not the the same as when a boy-sized man dribbles at the top of the keys for 12 second and hoists an 18 footer over a a superior defender.

by Tenorca on Aug 7, 2007 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not an option

Actually, even if there were some magic way to get rid of Foyle and Jassy's contracts (there isn't--cutting them doesn't free up one cent as we still have to pay them and they still count towards the cap and tax) we'd still be over the cap. Pietrus can be re-signed either way since we don't have to pay attention to the cap to sign him. But Boykins can come here only if he's willing to accept the BAE or a minimum contract. This is true regardless of what happens with Foyle or Jassy, unless someone out there is foolish enough to agree to take them off our hands in return for a sign and trade for a player they have that we want who wants to come here.

by jae on Aug 7, 2007 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and how would we magically do that.

i can see us buying out Sarunas' contract or trading him to a team in desperate need of a backup pg.

But do you really think we can buyout Foyle? People have been suggesting this for awhile as if it was some easy task to shave the roster. People--we already tried that! it didn't work because Adonal is a smart man. He would lose money in a buyout because his potential new contract from another team would not offset the difference in his buyout. If we could've bought out Foyle we would already have done it. As much as you don't want him, he's sticking around this season.

As for POB, ego's and pride get in the way of the most smartest of GM's. The Warriors are not going to buyout a former lottery pick. People may say "oh he was the first lottery to go down to the D-league", but cutting him from the team at such an early state in his career is just an unwise and foolish move on the part of the front office. Sorry, he's sticking around until he gets traded.

The most likely of the 3 to be moved i can see is Sarunas because he's an expiring and his salary isn't too bad. Although we'd make no improvement on the roster situation unless we do a 2-1 deal.

Anyway, i'd rather have Stephane on the team rather than the likes of Barnes, Mikael, Sarunas or Adonal. Yes, i said it, Barnes too!

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Aug 7, 2007 10:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How

can you say you'd rather have Lasme than Barnes? As far as I know Lasme has never proved a thing in a NBA game.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Aug 7, 2007 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i just have this

twisted hatred for barnes. i never liked him. If you see my archives, it'll prove it too!

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Aug 7, 2007 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait a minute...

Are you saying you'd rather have an unproven second round draft pick than a scrappy, lovable player who makes clutch threes and dunked on the MVP while simultaneously ripping his heart out? You sure about that?

by Tenorca on Aug 7, 2007 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice post

tell it how it is with foyle and pob!

i think what we should do next is sign and trade pietrus and sarunas to miami for jwill. that frees up a roster spot.

and then use the trade exception for drew gooden

hooray! go warriors!

as for lasme, if he is that good, i say cut pob for him...but i don't see that

by thewarriorsrule on Aug 7, 2007 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh

janny hu wrote that is stephen lasme shows them something during training camp, then they can cut one of their guaranteed contracts. it can be patrick o bust. (or maybe even sarunas back to euro?). so nothing to worry about. let it all play out in training camp

by thewarriorsrule on Aug 7, 2007 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

its funny

how everyone wants to get rid of pietrus now. i think keeping him at 3.4 mil isn't so bad. he will definitely help to the blow of losing richardson.

don't forget that pietrus was favored as a starter in the beginning of the season last year. and he flourished. he shot 48% from the field and 38% for the year!!!! sure he bricked two crucial free throws against utah that we will never forget. but can you ice two free throws in the clutch like that? many people miss ft's during crunch time. it happens.

as for the out of bounds, mental errors, and the corner threes...yes they are painful to see. but i think these are definitely things he can work on. i don't like pietrus either b/c he has a small brain, but he works hard, hustles, and plays with high energy.

by thewarriorsrule on Aug 7, 2007 12:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

As much as I hate Foyle and Pietrus

I like Foyle better than Pietrus. Although Foyle does hurt the team by taking up money and a space on the bench, he isn't given the chance to screw up the team physically on the court with mental errors. He has the basketball IQ of an idiot... well b/c he is an idiot.

The pain of losing JRich does not make it any better or worse by keeping Pietrus. If anything, it makes it worse b/c of the way Pietrus is. I think he did a couple good things during the season, but overall he didn't IMO show any real improvement in his game. He's always been an "eh" shooter and his ball handling skills aren't all that great. He's just another player in the NBA who is living off his athleticism and still hasn't learned the fundamentals of the game. If he could do that, he would cut down on his retard errors and he would prove to be worth those millions that they would have to pay him.

by david240z on Aug 7, 2007 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

As usual

I agree with you. Pietrus has not basketball IQ, and marginal skills, just a lot of athletic talent largely wasted because he cannot do the things that help a team win.

by wushi on Aug 7, 2007 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

by the way

great post eternal optimist!

filled with great links and supporting evidence!

by thewarriorsrule on Aug 7, 2007 12:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks

I was just seeing what everyone thought about Lasme vs. some of the other guys on the roster. I'm sure Mulson aren't done tinkering yet... It's gonna be fun to see what comes out of training camp.

RACK IT UP!!! We believed. Playoffs '07. One Dub!

by EternalWarriorsOptimist on Aug 7, 2007 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

POB is a POS

end of story the kid cannot play, give foyle the PT he bigger, more agressive, and can play defense.

by zagari415 on Aug 7, 2007 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I have trouble

understanding why so many on this site are calling POB a bust. He is the same age as Biedrins, he is taller than Biedrins, and anyone knows that big guys take longer to develop. Robert Parrish said that he likes his game and reminds him so much of himself at a comparable age, and how it took Robert 3 or 4 years before he figured out how to play, that is good enough for me. Certainly he looked awful last year, but I thought Biedrins looked awful the first two years he played also. There is no way I think the Warriors should get rid of POB, feign an injury, or just sit him on the bench, the 12th man never plays anyway, no matter who he is. When the season starts only 10 guys will get in a game anyway, and most of the time only 9 guys will play so what is the problem of keeping POB around. Two or three years from now if he hasn't shown any progress, fine, dump him.

by wushi on Aug 7, 2007 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

POB=BUST

While it's popular to say that 'big men take longer to develop' there's not much, if any evidence to support this. What real evidence I've seen actually indicates that more often than not, what you see early on in a big man's career accurately predicts what they'll do later on. Almost all players get better, but big men who aren't productive in limited minutes almost always stay that way. Guards and forwards are actually more likely to develop some game later on, indicating that in fact, they take longer to develop than bigs.
Parish had a great career, but I'm not inclined to trust opinions of former players simply because they're former players. A number of greats have been good GMs, good at spotting talent, but several have been terrible at the same activity, indicating that being able to play isn't necessarily an indication that you can evaluate player potential in anyone else. As a rookie, Parish was on pace for 15 rebounds per 40 minutes and shot more than 50% from the field. POB? 31% from the field (not good for a backup guard with two broken arms) and 7 rebounds per 40. For a center those numbers aren't bad, they're abysmal. Parish must have some serious self esteem problems if he sees his early days as similar to POBs. They weren't even close.
Much like the case with Parish, there's no real comparison between Biedrins and POB as first year players. Biedrins played very well in limited minutes in his first two years. It's only people who were obsessed with per-game numbers that thought poorly of him. He did many of the things that are necessary for success in the league early on. He rebounded very well and he converted a very high percentage of his shots from the floor and he didn't turn the ball over. His problem was staying on the floor because of fouls, but that was one area he had to work on to become productive but he was an asset when he was in the game. POB was an atrocious shooter and an atrocious rebounder. The only thing he had in common with Biedrins at the same stage was that he also fouled too often, though in his case, getting into foul trouble meant getting him off the floor, which was a good thing because he was a detriment, a huge detriment, when he was in the game.
2 or three years from now means paying POB for 2 or three more years, which, given what he's shown, given the low, low, low likelihood of a big man who has shown no ability at all to play in the NBA, and little ability to play in the summer league. There's a limited number of roster spots. To continue to give this guy 2 to 3 million $$$ a year to eat up a roster spot better occupied by a scrappy point guard from East Nowhere seems like a poor choice of money. If POB doesn't show something in limited time this year, there's no point in thinking that he's going to be that winning lotto jackpot. It just doesn't happen often enough to make up for the risk.

by jae on Aug 8, 2007 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs