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ESPN: Warriors tell B Davis NO

(Sighs)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3041720


Sources told ESPN.com that Davis' agent, Todd Ramasar, was informed in a meeting with the Warriors this week that the club prefers to wait until after the coming season to sign Davis to an extension, even though that opens up Golden State to the possibility of losing its point guard and leader in the 2008 free agency market.

How in the heck is it that I've posted 3 diaries today?  Guess being off work and bored has turned me into a diary machine.

Well ladies and gentlemen, time for the old GSDubZ to step to the plate here.  The Warriors are gonna wait on signing BD to an extension, and I think that's a horrible mistake.  BD is more important than anyone on the team, by FAR, and I mean FARRR, like, Brandan Wright wingspan FAR.   Furthermore, despite his injuries and the amount of money and his age, I feel that supporting BD in this certain situation just shows who the more hardcore fans are.

OOH! YA I SAID IT!  He did it in the best way he could, at the best time he could, and he deserves it.  Bottom line.  Mullie & Co. could have made a better move here.

Ah well.

Go ahead and attack away ladies and gents! If you're on my side please speak up!

Poll
Mistake?
Yes
31 votes
No
64 votes
No - Unless he stays health and goes to the LAKERS
41 votes

136 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

0 recs  |  Comment 64 comments

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i think this is a great idea
Baron is not your typical pg. he is a great player who gets hurt as much as ken griffey jr. We need to make sure that we can utalize all that we can from him. and not signing him now will make him more hungrier to play his best. Teams would not sign for a guy who is gonna play horrible due to him wanting money.
remember we got baron for practically nothing, and thats cause he gets hurt to much and still wants money. but we need him for the years to come we just cannot sign him now.
What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Sep 28, 2007 10:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

prove something first
i think he needs to prove something this season before we extend him to a rashard lewis type money. geez louizz he's rich now. Maybe Baron has to be healthy all season? i heard he lost a couple pounds too

by PhaNxTasY on Sep 28, 2007 11:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Right Move
You're missing several important points:
  1. He's going to make $15M this year, a guaranteed year. He has a player option for $17M the next season. That's $32M for the next two years. He has absolutely nothing to complain about.
  2. If he opts out of $17M next season, he will take a pay cut. No one can offer him $17M, no one WANTS to offer him $17M. I repeat: No one can outbid us for his services, assuming anyone even wants to try and get into such a battle.
  3. Generalizations like "lets support him" are relatively meaningless in today's NBA. There is a salary cap that limits every team's assets, being stupid with your assets only ensures mediocrity or worse. We were barely a playoff team with him, we obviously need to add pieces around him. Giving him what he wants 3 years/$65M makes us a WORSE team- last I checked, we're all Warrior fans. Why would any fan want to do something thats not only unnecessary and illogical, but bad for the franchise?
  4. His threat to opt-out DOES NOT MEAN HE IS LEAVING. It just means he hits the free agent market. As I said in #2, no one can out bid us, and we can go over the cap to keep him if it came to that (which it won't). Look at #1 again:  he's got TWO SEASONS LEFT including this one, so we can easily wait till next season to make a decision and negotiate again.
  5. Chauncey Billups and Steve Nash average roughly $12M in annual salaries. Both have had more team success and health (and arguably, individual production) than Baron Davis. The only advantage Baron Davis has is age, which is more than mitigated by very, very legitimate health concerns. Explain to me why Baron Davis deserves twice as much money as those guys? Again...they got $12M; he wants over $20M. Does not compute.
  6. This is posturing, plain and simple. The Warriors hold the cards, all the cards. The ONLY way for Baron to leave is to take a paycut; if he were willing to take a paycut, why wouldn't he just stick around here (where it would be a smaller paycut).
LA teams could sign him outright with the MLE ($6M roughly). Would he take ONE THIRD of his player option just to leave? No NBA player is that principled, none. Nada.
Even if Baron insisted in a sign-and-trade, we have all the leverage, so we'd probably be able to extract a good package in return.

7. Let's say Baron Davis gets pissed off. What's he gonna do? Tank the season? Rip the team in public? What do you think THAT will do to his market value? The BEST thing for Baron to do is STFU, stay healthy, dominate the league like he did in the playoffs, take the Warriors into or beyond the 2nd round.

At that point, he re-interates his request for an extension while lowering his pricetag. In such a scenario, he would have brought the team continued success, alleviated injury concerns, and proven to be reasonable by backing off his demands. THAT is when he would have leverage.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 28, 2007 11:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great post Option Zero
I was thinking the same thing. Giving BD a huge contract hurts the Warriors in the quest at building the best roster possible. Look at the Cavs with Larry Hughes, the Cavs gave him a large contract and he has not lived up to it because he cannot stay healthy.

Just imagine if the Warriors gave BD a contract extension now, he gets injured during the season, plays around 40 games and we end up with 30-35 wins. This would be a terrible move for the Warriors. I still think BD has more to prove to the Warriors by staying healthy for an entire season, than the Warriors have to prove to BD by giving him a large contract.

Ballin' like its '88!

by manutefor3 on Sep 28, 2007 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the
report was correct, I am wrong in my supposition that BDiddy will be extended at the training camp this season. Rightfully, OZ was correct in that regards. Having said that, my take

Most will agree with me that GSW will go as far as Davis can bring it. Many joins me in the belief that this team is not ready yet without BDiddy. He was the reason that the Dubs were able to go over the hump and into the playoffs after 12 yrs. I don't think GSW will let him opt out and give the reigns to somebody else (Ellis?) just yet especially after trading JRich. It doesn't make sense to stop the continuity of the playoff mindset that was instilled with the success of last season. It doesn't make sense to rip the chemistry that took them there. It doesn't make sense to put another hump when they can move on smoothly. I sense he'll get his extension in due time. Now we have two figures reported, 50M and 65M for 3 yrs. I'm sure those two figures will meet somewhere to the satisfaction of all concerned.  

Both Nellie and Mullin have Baron's ear. Nellie's backing out of the contract negotiation before the start of training camp will be a positive influence with this situation. Nellie will tell him that he can only get the max $, if he stay healthy and focused, play motivated, and show some character. Even Chris will caution him as he did with Nellie, he can only convince Cohan to open his wallet if he will tow the line. Anything else will weaken his position and devalue his chips. Hard to argue with that IMO. I think he will show some character and class and will follow these advices and avoid any potential strife in Oakland.

Finally, Mulson did not stop Barnes to go after the money in the market last season. Smart move, and he was back with price the GSW willing to pay. No grife there because they had paid him more than the market was willing to pay.

by muritqua on Sep 29, 2007 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking the truth
it's rediculous to even THINK about paying him more money. Get the job done, Baron. We make the playoffs as an 8 seed, lose talent, and people are expecting the mucho grande money to come to them. How about you guys shutup, play, and prove yourself!?

Tony.psd = Da Man

http://adonalobsessed.blogspot.com/

by Zorgon on Sep 29, 2007 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's funny how many times you've posted this
I agree completely with all of the points and I have yet to see anyone argue with it point-by-point which is mildly frustrating.  

I'll stay out of the rest of the discussion. . .

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 30, 2007 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't see Pree's response
which did directly address #6 & #2. Hooray for coherent discourse!

by bloodsweatndonuts on Sep 30, 2007 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey
i heard that if he opts out, we still have his bird rights?  meaning we can match any offer a team gives right?

by thewarriorsrule on Oct 1, 2007 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree it's mostly a good thing
However, this could also be a bad thing for us in the playoffs. I know it's a stretch and kind of a crazy assumption, but what if he plays well all year long to showcase his talent, then just gives up during the playoffs to spite the organization for not signing him earlier (even if we do sign him when he's a free agent).

Like Stephen Colbert did with himself, I'm mentally preparing us for such a bizzare occurance so we can't feel threatened by it when the situation actually becomes imminent.

by saintfloppy on Sep 28, 2007 11:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Giving up in the playoffs?
Really?

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 28, 2007 11:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

um
if he did that than it would make him look horribe around the league and really really show thats hes not worth foyle money.
What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Sep 29, 2007 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's the right move
but its still tough to reject Baron.  Yes, he has 2 years left on his contract: I don't feel bad for the guy.

But he is an elite player, when healthy, who loves playing in Oakland.  So its difficult not to encourage him to stay.

By not even negotiating with Baron and forcing Ellis to spend half-two thirds of his minutes at PG, the warriors are obviously setting themselves up to make a decision between the two.

by BingBluNT on Sep 28, 2007 11:47 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good post
I think you nailed it. I think they want one more year to evaluate Monta at PG and Baron before making any long term commitment. They may not have to choose between the two but if Monta surprises us with some real poise at PG they may not be so fast to hand Baron a new deal.

Personally I hope we can retain both for a couple more years at reasonable price tags because I think it will take that long for Monta to mature into a Point, and until he does he could be a great combo guard to match with Baron and Marco.

.

by olympicmike on Sep 29, 2007 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol @ the give up in the playoffs comment
i don't think BD is mentally unstable to just say oh, i'll screw with the management and sit out the playoffs or something like that.

i was on the negotiate a low extension for him but i assumed that wasn't really going to happen. but again, barring any BD tantrums, it gives us a good position next offseason. I'm hoping they will give Biedrins his extension now to get it out of the way. but yah, next offseason i think will be an interesting one. Monta's growth can dictate what will happen.  

by lightz0ut on Sep 29, 2007 12:46 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

its good theyre waiting out the season
and this is the order id like it to go at the end of the season

healthy baron > gilbert arenas > injured baron.

if baron misses less than, i dunno, 12 games, keep him. if not, get gilbert! ive always liked gilbert arenas, cuz when i was younger, him and jrich were the only ones that signed things for me.

by llamalimbo1 on Sep 29, 2007 1:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

your
starting PG for the 2008-2009 Los Angeles Lakers....BARON DAVISSS

by djchuckdeez on Sep 29, 2007 3:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

wow
The literacy rate really is going down.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No need to attack him bro
  1.  It's pretty much guaranteed that BD will be a free agent next season, and the Lakers would kill to have him
  2.  If someone else would have posted an attack you might have gone and erased the comment?  Let's not be hypocritical here.  
  3.  I'd also like to point out that a third of the votes above believe that B.D. should have been extended, while almost every comment is against him being extended.  Just goes to show who the vocal people are, those who are quick to criticize and won't just drop an argument sometimes for the love of a player or love of a team.   I think the votes show a lot of casual, regular fans who don't have time to blog still have time to click and vote and so it should always be accepted when someone has a different view, like chuckdeez making a really POSSIBLE (yet funny)  comment that BD could be a Laker in about 9 months.  

If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Sep 29, 2007 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely off base
  1. Nothing is guaranteed. His player option is for $17M, becoming a free agent is walking away from that. The Lakers can't do jack about it.
  2. He really didn't read any of the comments, and apparently, neither did you. He also has a reputation for leaving short, inane comments that contribute nothing to the discussion but a negative attitude.
  3. It says alot. The people that vote spent a couple seconds clicking a button. The people that wrote comments took the time to write out complete thoughts. Yet you say those are the people that are "quick to criticize?" If anything, we're slow to criticize, simply because it takes more time.
The fact is you are wrong. Plainly, completely, utterly wrong. Go back and re-read what I wrote, and it may become apparent why.

Reducing the question to "sign him or not" is ignorant. The issue is much broader than that:

Sign him now or later? Obviously, later. The price is as high as it's gonna be, it can't get higher, so u have nothing to lose financially.

Sign him later or not? Depends on the price.

How much to invest if we try to sign him? No more than $15M at the top.

There is zero reason to extend him now. None.

The casual fans that don't have time but want to vote can, there's nothing wrong with doing so. But that shouldn't stop anyone from reading and learning when the opportunity and information is available to them.

And I'd again point out, djchuckdeez DID comment, so he would similarly fall into alleged "quick to criticize" group that you're so eager to attack.

You demagoguery is easily exposed. You broke the news, you wrote the diary, but your conclusion was wrong, and I'm not the only one that recognizes it. Nothing to be ashamed about, accept it and let's keep going.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So I'm ignorant?
I didn't call you ignorant or illiterate bro.  If the guy is negative, fine, point it out, don't attack.  This is not about right or wrong, it's about giving opinions in a fair environment, and when the moderator is calling people ignorant and illiterate I don't feel that is a good thing.

My only point that you MISSED here is that Baron has stated publically that he WILL opt out if he is not signed to an extension.  So I am just highlighting the reality that BD has usually been a man of his word, and we can expect him to be a free agent next Summer.  Will we sign him back?  Sure, probably.  Is there a chance the Lakers could get him?  Yeah, so could any other of the 28 teams in the NBA.  But all I am saying is, I would have paid him the amount because I feel he is worth it to do it now.  MY opinion bro, stop going off on a bunch of tangents here.  And about the commenting thing, all I'm saying, is there are a lot of fans who may not actually be "bloggers", they may be of a more casual type of fan that has just enough heart as you and I, and the fact that people also feel like I do should show that I have a right to state an opinion without being called "ignorant".  


If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Sep 29, 2007 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No
You didn't call me ignorant or illiterate for a reason- I'm neither of those things. Where either term applies, the truth should be freely stated.

NBA players go back on their word all the time- that's why we have contracts. It could be Baron, it could be Andrew Declerq, I don't care. You do not walk away from $17M a year in advance of when you can cash in on that, certainly not when it's unclear where you could get remotely close to it.

You're the one bringing up tangents such as the casual bloggers. All you're trying to do is give people an excuse to be wrong.

There are some matters open to debate because the truth is muddy, either through lack of information, or a wealth of support for multiple possible outcomes. Yet there are also matters that are black and white with obvious answers.

There is no shame in being wrong- which you were. There is shame, however, in whining when it is pointed out.

This has nothing to do with who is a blogger and who is not. All you had to do is read what I wrote and say, "oh, cool, I see, thanks for the info" - OR if you had any substance to disagree, provide a n argument stating the reasons why I'm wrong. It's not that hard.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

About 90% of the time I agree with U OZ
and I agree with you on this end of the "should we give in to BD's max contract demand" debate, however, man... you need to stop bein' so condesending.  Not everyone's s a vulcan...

You are wrong because you are an illogical being...

The best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Sep 29, 2007 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
Great post. Without really getting into it too much (I appreciate the flavor OZ brings to the community though it can come off as harsh) I have to say that if you read OZ's post using Spock's voice it's just about the funniest thing ever.
.

by olympicmike on Sep 29, 2007 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Being wrong
isn't always a result of just being illogical. lack of literacy, ignorance, and plain laziness are also factors.

Like I said, nothing wrong with being wrong. Just don't cry when you find out.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

familiar
OMG! I can't be wrong! Why are you so mean in pointing out when I'm wrong! Why can't you accept me for my opinion!?

Sounds like:

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should be ashamed
... at the fact that other posters have come on and, (while still giving you a high level of compliments) have still pointed out that you are condescending and well... umm... the "w" word.  

Well if it makes you feel better, OK, I was "wrong".  Since the whole igniting of this argument is you think I was "wrong" for calling out your attacks, then in that case, I'm sorry, I was "wrong" for pointing out your attacks on people, and was unaware that attacks are okay if the attacker thinks they were justified!  

Having said that, you would be totally contradicting yourself if you got away with justifying your attacks.  I mean what's more wrong, me pointing out the fact that you justified an attack, or you going and erasing other peoples comments when you feel that they're attacking?

OOOOOOOOOOOOh conflict of interest buddy.

Conclusion: You are wrong on so many different levels of this debate that you might be up all night writing essays trying to convince yourself that you were right LOLOL. (And I will not respond anymore to this debate because I'm done with this lame argument and I'm not going to respond to your anticipated response because all you do is try to get in the last word since you are the moderator and have all this POWER).

P.S.  This is just a debate, nothing personal, I have a high level of respect for your moderation of diaries and I just felt it necessary to critique and point out some contradictions. 1 Dub.


If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Sep 29, 2007 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not
a conflict of interest. That's hypocracy. At least get your allegations straight.

I have no need to convince myself I'm right- I do the work and determine what's right or wrong or possibly right or wrong BEFORE I post, so I don't wind up like you.

Frankly, none of the comments here rise to the level of attack, as you try to characterize them as. The vast majority of what I've deleted are redundant or lacking diaries or comments that contain swearing or name calling.

I've deleted probably two dozen comments by coma, and you know what? He hasn't complained a single time. You, on the other hand, I don't even remember- yet here you are.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so replying with the literacy rate going down is..
right?

how did you determine he's illiterate? what if he just didnt read what you wrote? and sure, maybe he should've read what you posted earlier before commenting, but i don't see how you can justify your reply based on his "reputation."

you couldve simply referred to your previous post. you couldve even asked a simple question like, "did you even read what i posted?" instead you had to make an indirect attack toward his intelligence.

by davidR on Sep 30, 2007 3:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see why option said it the way he did
I mean obviously he knows the guy was probably just too lazy to read the comments before posting, especially since his post was on the longer side. But it's probably pretty annoying taking the time to write a long, intelligent post and then seeing people write short one line posts that indicate that they didn't read your post at all.
More Hardware Coming!

by gsw4life on Sep 30, 2007 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of
"A conflict of interest is a situation in which someone in a position of trust,in this case - Moderator, has competing professional or personal interests. Such competing interests can make it difficult to fulfill his or her duties of impartiality."

But before I write anything critical let me say "I am sorry and I was wrong." For what I'm not really sure - but getting that out of the way seems to be the best practice for this diary. Also, on the note of condescending: Option Zero your opinions are always correct and I respect everything you write -  in your infinite wisdom. I'm not sure why anyone would even begin to disagree, as it's quite obvious that your entries - as well thought out as they are - are just extensions of your superior ego and intelligence. Keep up they great work! We are all privileged to be privy to your deepest  of thoughts and knowledge surrounding the team that you obviously know better than anyone else.  GFY

by triplesix on Oct 1, 2007 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha!
Classic, good times.

If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Oct 2, 2007 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea
if the lakers offer him mad money, we can match their offer right?

by thewarriorsrule on Oct 1, 2007 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson and Baron
are a tag team, perfectly suited for oneanother - if one goes during or after next season, don't be surprised when the other follows ...

Nelson could hang it up during or at the end of the season and Baron, with enough coin already could chase a ring for less elsewhere - south (?)

enjoy them while we can

in Nelson we trust

by hardcore on Sep 29, 2007 12:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

"enjoy them while we can"
Hey I like that attitude, it's being as real and positive as possible.  It also lowers expectations for 08-09, so that if they do leave, it will hurt a little less (though it'd hurt a lot).

1 dub.


If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Sep 29, 2007 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea
that is very true...i hope it won't happen

by thewarriorsrule on Oct 1, 2007 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks OptionZero.....
I got chills throughout my spine when you brought up Andrew Declerq. It took me years to erase that guy from my memory, thanks for the horrible flashbacks!
Ballin' like its '88!

by manutefor3 on Sep 29, 2007 1:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

well
how bout a little Felton Spencer as well? david wood?

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
at the david wood...though I kind of appreciated his hustle a la Brian Cardinal.
Though I do remember a time when the W's called "flyin ryan lorthridge" their starting 2 gaurd. Sad times...

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Sep 29, 2007 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andrew
was my favorite player for a few weeks - he had Foylesque hustle!

by triplesix on Oct 1, 2007 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and just to chime in on the original topic
I could easily see Baron opting out and signing with the Lakers and ONLY the Lakers. IMO he would take the pay cut to play in LA with Kobe. His love for his hood and his family (grandma in particular) makes this a VERY feasible scenario. That would be a huge blow to this organization...i'm holding my breath on this one.

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Sep 29, 2007 3:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know, man...
I wouldn't consider a 65% loss of income just "a paycut".  Heck, that's not even 65% less than what he'd be offered, that's like 65% less than what he would be guaranteed to make.  I'd call that self lobotomy.  Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face!
The best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Sep 29, 2007 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol cutting nose...
in that case, what do you call AK if he walks from the 63M? lolol  I'd love to hear that analogy!

If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Sep 29, 2007 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that dude
Might need a mask by the time he's thru!

Seriously though, I wouldn't compare BD to AK47.  I doubt anyone in the NBA is as high strung as Andrea...  and if Lord Dizzle was... then maybe he's better off in LA LA Land.

The best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Sep 29, 2007 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
on the real though, what do you think will happen with AK?  or kobe? so much training camp intrigue!

If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Sep 30, 2007 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes
that is very true

by thewarriorsrule on Oct 1, 2007 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep an eye on the Clippers
It is true that the Lakers can only offer him the MLE, but it's the Clippers you've got to be concerned with. The Clippers could have something like $30-million in CAP SPACE.

How?

Elton Brand opts out and doesn't return. That's a real possibility. Corey Maggette has already said he plans to opt out of his deal. Sean Livingston's injuries could mean the Clippers decide not to offer him a $5-million QO.

Those three players equal about $30-million in payroll.

I'm 95% sure that Maggette will want to leave because he and Dunleavy just don't see eye to eye. The Clippers owner loves Maggette, but I odn't know if that's enough. Sure, they can throw a whole bunch of money at him to keep him, but I really don't think he wants to play for Dunleavy, who isn't going anywhere.

Livingston's situation is just tough to gauge because I have heard that he won't ever be able to come back and play the game the way he used to. He will have lost most of his quickness and won't be nearly as explosive, which are things that made him so valuable in combination with his height. They certainly won't give him that $5-million.

Brand's situation is really up to Elton. At some point, he's going to want to be a part of a situation where he really had an opportunity to win. Because of his Achilles' situation, he'd be taking a HUGE risk if he opted out, because it is pretty tough to get a big deal after a year on the shelf .. unless you're Nene. I'll be interested to see what Elton ends up doing.

Let's say Elton stays .. the Clippers could have Elton, Mobley, Kaman, Tim Thomas, Brevin Knight, Al Thornton, and Guillermo Diaz under contract and their payroll would be around $45-million. That means they'll have about $14-million to make a run at Baron Davis. The Clippers could conceivably offer Baron something like 4 years and $60-million.

They'd look like this:

Baron / Knight
Mobley / Diaz
Thomas / Thornton
Brand
Kaman

Considering how bad they're going to be this year, they'll get a high draft pick and can take a big man - and there are plenty of options. Kevin Love, Roy Hibbert, Michael Beasley, Darrell Arthur, DeAndre Jordan, Brook Lopez.

Let's say they go for another guard. Boy oh boy. OJ Mayo, Derrick Rose, Nicolas Batum, Darren Collison .. plenty of options.

Also, factor in the fact that the Clippers will receive an additional first rounder from the Timberwolves because of the Sam Cassell/Marko Jaric deal. The pick is Top 10 protected through 2010. I don't think the Wolves will be out of the Top 10 this year, so this is sort of a moot point.

Anyway, fill out the roster with veteran minimums and second rounders, and that team could eventually be:

Baron / Knight / 2nd Rounder
Mobley / Diaz / Vet min. #1
Thornton / Thomas / Vet min. #1
Brand / Thomas / Vet min. #2
Kaman / Hibbert / Vet min. #2

The Clippers could certainly use Baron and have the money to get him next season. I think the Warriors made the right decision in not extending Mr. Davis, but to pretend like he won't have options next year is unrealistic because the Clippers will come a'callin'. They'd LOVE to have a bona fide superstar like Baron to pair with the quiet awesomeness of Elton Brand.

Just sayin' ..

by pree on Sep 29, 2007 7:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

True...
But if $14mil is about all they could offer, its still less than the guaranteed $17mil... besides, with the bird exception the w's could match anybody.  And even if baron was so butt hurt about the w's decision to wait him out that he opts to jump ship for much less $$, that gives the dubs like $17mil to play with in FA market...

Sure beats the hell outta maxin the man out this year and prayin' to god he doesn't hurt himself anytime in the next, say... 5 years,   all the while lacking any cap flexibility to do anything about it.

The best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Sep 29, 2007 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not about the 17
The concern about money isn't about the $17-million. It's about takin a few million less in one year so that the player can pick up tens of millions more over a few years. That's really what their concern is.

Because of the guaranteed status of all NBA contracts, players really care more about the total money on the contract instead of the year-to-year. So if Baron gets $55-million, he'll take that over one year of $17 .. espcially when you consider how injury prone he is.

Could the Warriors still match? Of course, but he might not care. It might be about finally getting a lucrative offer from a hometown team. If I were the Warriors, I'd be concerned about getting into a bidding war for a guy like Baron, because he probably isn't worth that inflexibility you're referring to.

The Warriors won't be able to use all that Baron money on another FA, though. Don't forget that Monta and Barnes will be up for a new contract and Biedrins' will kick in. Depending on what the luxury tax is, the Warriors may not have as much money as you think.

They'll still have a BUNCH, so its not like they're going to be totally out of luck because they'd be in play for some FAs, but will Oakland be an attractice spot? I don't mean to be negative Nancy, but a team with Elton Brand as the second option is much more attractive at this point in comparison to what the Warriors would have. Plus, what if Nellie isn't back? We'll have to see how it plays out, though.

by pree on Sep 29, 2007 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baron's demand
Was for 3 years, over $60M- still way, way more than the Clippers would have the space to offer; still way more than any other team would offer.

That's why Baron's price WILL come down.

Two things to watch:

  • how far will the price drop?
  • what will he show us this year?
At this very second (before the season) I can't top $13M for him, which means letting him walk.

If he plays 78+ games and we hit the 2nd round or more, I'm more comfortable showing him the $45-60M.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
The Clippers can offer something like 4-years, $60-million. Simple as that. Did the price go down? I guess so, but he's still getting the money he wants in the city he wants it in.

by pree on Sep 29, 2007 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

eh
If that's what happens, I wouldn't be totally broken up about it.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

even with Brand
they could still offer the 4 yr. 20mil??? Seems like they would be WAY over the cap.
Seriously, my concern is not with the Clips it is with the Lakers. The Lakers, not clippers, were Baron's team growing up and the prospect of teaming with #24 might be big for him.

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Sep 30, 2007 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea
looks like nellie and baron may leave together :(...

by thewarriorsrule on Oct 1, 2007 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couple more guys
They also signed Rueben Patterson, whose terms I could not find online (does Pincus know?) I'm  gonna  assume he's gonna get somewhere between $2-4M next year.

Also, Shaun Livingston has a $5.8M cap hold as an RFA after his rookie deal. If they really wanted every last ounce of cap space, they could simply renounce him, but it's such a waste to lose him for nothing.

I agree Maggette will leave- he's going to want $12M, and not from the Clippers. Since he's still young and pretty proven, there won't be too much problem getting a good deal from someone.

It would take alot of guts for Brand to leave. He's gonna be leaving $16.4M and he'd have no more than half a season to show he's worth that much or more from someone else.

Quinton Ross is also a free agent- he seems like the sort of defender MD Sr. would want to retain for a couple mil, but for some reason his PT has been yanked around inconsistently.

Their high draft pick will eat another $2M as well...and if they had the chance to draft Mayo or Rose, would Baron really be the smarter move...?

As you say- yes, we'd need to keep an eye on the Clippers, but not till next year.

And most importantly, we have Larry Bird rights. That means alot.

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...
while I usually don't agree with you, and while I still don't agree in the Warriors making the right move, that's some great research Pree and a very very legitimate scenario.  Fact:  Baron grew up a clippers and lakers fan, and either would be good for him AND the clippers.  

Bravo on that research man, it is good to know what dangers our franchise faces.


If War brings peace Dubz wit' it den!

by gsdubz on Sep 29, 2007 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lemme get this straight
You actually want the Warriors to give Baron Davis over $15M, $20M, $20M, and $20M the next 4 years?

Questions? Complaints?

(AIM: JetForze; email: Jon.d.ma@gmail.com)

by OptionZero on Sep 29, 2007 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know people will kill me for this...
but... I´d pay him... Of course, If he sucks this year, has a lot of injuries and stuff like that is one thing, but if he stays healthy and plays like he did in the playoffs, I´d pay him 20 mi...
The guy turned this franchise around where everyone failed for more than a decade... show him some love... My opinion... only if he plays like he did last season (playoffs and last part of the season).
F**K REFS!!!

by faetati on Sep 30, 2007 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BDiddy to the Clips?
This line of thoughts was posted in other blog (Real GM) the other day, but I've discounted it beyond monetary aspect because:

1.    By the time Davis exercise his player option (if ever), he is already 30 years old. Good if he had already a ring, then this is moot. If not, then safe assumption, he will go to a team that he thinks had a chance to help him land a ring and that would not be the Clips.

2.    Looking back to Davis success as PG, he has to play in a right environment. He was productive and effective with the right coaches;  Silas with the Hornets and Nelson with the Dubs. With Scott and Montgomery, we saw a selfish Davis, jacking up bad shots, pass the ball when he can't create for himself, etc. I don't think Dunleavy Sr is a right coach for him.

3.    He had to had solid and veterans players around him. With the Hornets, he was surrounded by P.J. Brown, Armstrong, Mashburn and Magliore. For the big push last season, he had Big Al, Sjax, Jrich, Barnes and the breakthrough of both Biedrins and Ellis. Now, granting he'll walk away and go to the Clips, without Brand,  Maggette, and Livingstone and perhaps Ross, I don't think he will be as effective (even happy perhaps) playing with Kaman than Dre. Or Knight than Eliis or Belinelli, Mobley than Sjax or Thomas than Al.

by muritqua on Sep 30, 2007 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unlikely but not impossible
Baron only goes to the Clippers if they retain Brand, and if he's willing to take a paycut of 3-5 million dollars.  There's no doubt that both would have to happen.  Unless... can the Clippers go over the cap to sign Brand?  Brand could opt out and the clips could sign Baron and then Brand.

Of course, if Brand opts out, we should be the ones that go after both these guys!

by BingBluNT on Sep 30, 2007 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true
great post pree.  i can see baron keeping his word and opting out to spite the warriors.  i can see him accepting less money to play in LA for either teams.

by thewarriorsrule on Oct 1, 2007 1:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome Back
Agent Zero.

by jayknocc14 on Sep 30, 2007 9:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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