What is Nellyball?

by BiedrinsORBust on Jan 17, 2008 12:41 AM PST

I may just be venting, but sometimes Nellyball really frustrates me. It seems as if the Warriors have no direction on offense. What's with the play where Biedrins gets the ball at the top, holds it, then throws some lazy pass. One time I want Andris to just jack it up to see what would happen. Hey! Why not!? Everyone else is jackin em up! And how many times is Andris missed rolling to the basket, sometimes totally wide open, missed because the ball handler has his head down.

What, exactly, is Nellyball and what are it's principals? What are the pros and cons? Can this type of offense win a championship? Is the team even playing Nellyball, because many times it appears that the team wants to play Baronball, where Baron does all the work while the rest of the team chills at the three point line waiting to shoot.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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All your questions

are exactly the reason why i can't wait for Keith Smart to take over. maybe he'll play more traditional lineups while still pushing the uptempo system. Similar to NOK.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Jan 17, 2008 1:35 AM PST reply actions

+1

Our Warrior half-court offense is pretty much a pick-and-roll with Biedrins and whatever Baron gives us. And Jax, whenever he's taking a break from jacking all those shots.

Yet, even Portland does a better job in executing the pick and roll with freaking Pryzbilla than us.

by lightz0ut on Jan 17, 2008 1:49 AM PST up reply actions

the only reason I trust Smart

is that he's learning from Nellie

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 21, 2008 9:07 AM PST up reply actions

well

the main reason andris initiates it from the top is to draw the opposing center away from the basket and give the guards space to drive or post in and around the key.

i don't go back to his Bucks days or the early Warriors years, but from what i've seen he adapts his offense based on what he believes are the strengths of his personnel.

i'd say nellie ball is about having skill players to create floor spacing allowing his best players to work 1 on 1 as much as possible.

as frustrating as it is to see nellie go small (especially when the opposing teams on the line). but ppl forget that nellie used to rock tyrone hill, big vic, gatling, and lister for almost 100 min a game.

whether it can win championships, who knows. the biggest problem w/ the warriors is that, unlike the suns, raptors, or blazers, they are an average (and therefore streaky) jump shooting team. if this style (live & die by the 3) is to be effective, you probably have to shoot around 40% as a team.

by the evil monkey on Jan 17, 2008 2:11 AM PST reply actions

I dunno about that

the other team's center doesn't have to go too far from the basket considering that AB has no outside game. I think the main reason is that usually the other team's center doesn't really pressure the ball at all, so AB can make an easy pass to wherever the play is supposed to go.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 21, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions

Andris

needs to play a little angrier. He seems to always go for the soft little layup and has missed quite a few lately. Take it strong when your 1ft away and dunk that ish. Does anyone else notice this?

by highflya on Jan 17, 2008 9:13 AM PST reply actions

Andris

Yes, I've noticed. But perhaps the thigh bruise is limiting his hops. Regardless of this, he does seem to be in somewhat of a slump...

by flaaron on Jan 17, 2008 9:16 AM PST up reply actions

doesn't really make sense to criticize AB about

his finishing... he was leading the league in FG% until recently since he's been playing hurt

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 21, 2008 9:09 AM PST up reply actions

Nellie-Ball

Thanks to 10+ years of Basketball experience, any and all questions about Nellie-Ball can be answered in this diary...

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2008/1/10/215732/474

by olympicmike on Jan 17, 2008 12:35 PM PST reply actions

LOLLL

now i know that OZ is a great guy and Coma have kids
:DDD

build a team & destroy the roof

by Lat We N Trash on Jan 17, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions

Championship, Shmampionship

1. Let's look at one of Nellie's negative image, say, Larry "Right Way" Brown, as an inverted example of our favorite mad scientist. How many championships has his defense-first, solid-fundamentals style won in however many years in the NBA? One! So you could say that Larry Ball is useful for rehabilitating bad teams into the playoffs, but once you get there, don't hold your breath for a trophy, it'll take a while (and a million different coaching gigs).

1a. "Oh wah wah wah, what about Popovich?" you whine. Two words: Tim Duncan. But not for the reason you think!

An essential reason why mostly teams that buy into conventional wisdom (need a dominant center, play tough man-on-man) is because by far most teams in the NBA buy into conventional wisdom; as such, the sheer volume of teams adhering to Right Way dogma overwhelms the promethean fire Nellie has loosed upon the Association. Against such a stacked deck, you can't viably evaluate Nellieball's a priori value.
Each year, 29 teams don't win the championship. Might as well play a brand of ball that's unparalleled in terms of its energy and fun than fail at the same rate while playing plodding hoops.

by leee @ Golden State Of Mind on Jan 17, 2008 3:31 PM PST reply actions

so

You're saying screw championships, lets just play entertaining yet frustrating basketball.

Genius.

Popovich, Brown, Riley, Avery Johnson, Phil Jackson, Tomjonovich, all preached defense. They all won championships. And even when they didn't they still went deep into the playoffs. How many conference finals did all these coaches get into? Brown may have won just one title, but he's been to the ECF plenty of times with Indy, Phily and Detroit and has appeared in the Finals 4 times.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Jan 17, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions

oops

Avery Johnson never won a championship.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Jan 17, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions

lolololol

I'm saying screw championships, let's just play entertaining yet frustrating basketball. It builds character! You appreciate that sort of flagellating moralism, yes?

Of course, I'd love it if the Ws brought home a trophy, but that's not the end-all and be-all. Otherwise, I'd be no better than a Yankees fan.

What the Warriors do is to strike out against the stolidness of rationalism and its mechanical and soulless dogma (defense + bigs = RINGS!!). Yet on the other hand, each time they fire a low percentage shot, the Warriors flout the laws of physics that would inscribe creativity and imagination, they like Prometheus reach for the fire of the gods to bestow on us, the fire-less masses, shivering in the fiefdom of orthodoxy while awaiting the chimera of the Stud Big Man, which is the poisoned hegemonic milk that would have us too weak to rise against the order and demand the stars. The Warriors will often and ultimately fail, but when they do catch that ball lightning, it's basketball not distilled but transcended into unspeakable beauty.

Also, what about the billion other coaches who've got boners for defense? I'm sure there are more of them who've never won a championship. It's just a numbers game: More coaches preaching defense across the league means defense will usually win a trophy.

And Riley won rings during Showtime with a 6'9" point, let's not forget.

by leee @ Golden State Of Mind on Jan 18, 2008 4:47 PM PST up reply actions

A 6-9 PG playing center in game 7

And putting up ridiculous numbers no less. Seriously people. This is how you win basketball games:

Score more points than the other team.

Whether you focus on defense or offense, you just need a better team. Some teams do it with individual talents (Kobe/Shaq, DWade/Shaq/Refs), others do it with teamwork (Detroit, San Antonio), some do it with defense (San Antonio, Detroit), others do it with offense (Showtime, early Bulls, Rockets, Kobe/Shaq)... Different strokes for different folks.

And as Leee has said, more coaches "preach defense" now, so you'll see more "defensive minded" teams winning.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 22, 2008 7:04 AM PST up reply actions

Forgot one thing...

You need to create mismatches. An all star center is going to be one, because there are only a few to go around. And you're not going to tell me Shaq is a defensive force. He was just a giant (pun intended) mismatch.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 22, 2008 7:21 AM PST up reply actions