Pietrus to the Mavs???

by KillaCrossOver on Jan 3, 2008 12:04 PM PST Comment 61 comments

http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?hd=20080103&lc=NBA#STORY_4182

Just came across this article. I know there has been several teams asking about Pietrus, Miami and Dallas being two of them. What can we possible get back?? Any possible help on our low post game that wouldn't mess with the chemistry?
Can we also package other players to get a bigger fish or should we go for smaller moves and not mess with the flow?

I want to hear from the Warriors Nation on this topic? Trade deadline is Feb 15

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

0 recs | Comment 61 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

from the link

"Could Pietrus' start on Wednesday have been a chance to showcase him for the Mavericks?"

Anyone who watches Nelson mess with his lineups I would think would conclude it was more his mad scientist match up stuff rather than any showcase

by Zig on Jan 3, 2008 12:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Diary @ Mavs Moneyball

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/story/2008/1/3/123441/8511

Seems like the fans there are going for a Hassell/Fazekas for Pietrus/Perovic swap. Hassell can play perimeter D, but Fazekas has only gotten about 2 minutes of PT this year and wouldn't be of any help anyways.

We're all B.D.'s sidekicks. He's got like five sidekicks. We're like the Power Rangers. - Al

by Caught Backcourt on Jan 3, 2008 12:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hassel...

...would be much more useful to us than Pietrus is now. Hassel at the very least wouldn't hurt us when he's out there, and if memory serves me he's got a good shot, good defense, a little small... kind of a Raja Bell sort.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wrong

Hassel has a really bad shot. He is good at one thing - perimeter defense. Nellie wouldn't play him if we had him.

"at the very least wouldn't hurt us when he's out there"

C'mon this Pietrus hate is getting ridiculous. Nellie wouldn't play him if he were hurting us.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 3, 2008 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wrong

Hassel has a really bad shot. He is good at one thing - perimeter defense. Nellie wouldn't play him if we had him.

"at the very least wouldn't hurt us when he's out there"

C'mon this Pietrus hate is getting ridiculous. Nellie wouldn't play him if he were hurting us.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 3, 2008 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The thing is...

...my eyes are telling me differently. I'm not saying Pietrus is somehow incapable of being a positive player for this team, he just hasn't done so very much this season. He's extremely susceptible to all of the worst flaws of our team as a whole, as well (bad shot selections, mental lapses, unecessary fouls). He's good for corner threes and occasionally on ball defense, but he's trying to do things he can't. This new corner pump fake before sliding into the fadeaway deep two is terrible. It makes the shot harder, it becomes a two instead of a three, and it seems like half the time Pietrus dribbles after a fake he travels anyways.

As for Hassell, he shoots about 44% FG, 32% 3P for his career, which I think is right around where Jackson is. Now obviously, Jackson is a more accomplished and experienced offensive player, but I bring this up to illustrate that his shootng could be passable.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 8:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

in the last 3 years

In the past 5 years he's attempted less than .3 3PA per game, despite averaging around 27 minutes per game. I think this might be a good indicator of how much his coaches trust him to shoot.

If we played Hassel they would just double-team Baron with Hassel's man. But Nellie wouldn't play him in the first place because he doesn't like defensive-minded players.

Another thing is that even though everyone here hates Pietrus, he obviously has a lot more trade value than Hassel. I don't know why Hassel is even a consideration.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 4, 2008 2:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

trying to do things he can't

can you specify what do you mean by that? Pietrus already have a very limited role on the team and barely does anything on his own. I have to agree with him having a bunch of unnecessary fouls and the mental lapses but bad shot selection? We are definitely seeing different things because I've seen that jumper fall for him more than what you're trying to imply. "it becomes a two instead of a three" - What's wrong with taking a two? For one, I'm glad Monta doesn't take 3pters anymore. His jumper is now money. Yes, Pietrus can hit the 3-ball but when you have a defender closing in on you it's not an easy shot to hit. Hence, the pump fake. "it seems like half the time Pietrus dribbles after a fake he travels anyway." - it seems like you're hating on MP for reasons you're not even sure he's doing. He's turning the ball over considerably less this year and has actually shown some improvement on his game. If anything he deserves some praises.

by lightz0ut on Jan 4, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong...

...I'm all for stepping into the midrange for the easier shot, that's not my problem. But I'm sure a bunch of people know the shot I'm talking about- I think OZ mentioned it in a game thread before- it's a fadeaway jumper he takes out of the corner that's only about a half foot further in than the three point line. If the defense is coming out too quick for him to hoist the shot, that's fine, but my gripe is that he insists on taking a vastly more difficult shot that garners less reward if converted, instead of getting the ball back out to Baron or whomever is around him.

I should be very clear, when I watch basketball, I do use a large amount of intuition to evaluate what's happening. I think that's natural to somebody who doesn't play the sport they're watching. But I do promise you I'm not just ragging on somebody for no reason. I'm a pretty damn laid back guy, all told, and I'm certainly not looking to hurt Mickael Pietrus' feelings.

by Zack Vank on Jan 4, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

air france

for air germany! it would be like some weird pay back for world war II

What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Jan 3, 2008 12:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's much simpler than that

He doesn't want Dampier on the floor so he's forcing the Mavs to go small and match up with them. Unfortunately, it didn't happen

by lightz0ut on Jan 3, 2008 12:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

As a Mavs Fan...

...I don't think we could honestly give you anyone of value...the main players (the good ones) are locked down for some time!

by BigTex84 on Jan 3, 2008 1:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

and it's a good thing GSOM is not in the office

per replies of the members here, it almost seems like Pietrus can be had for just about anybody if they were calling the shots.

Tim Thomas for Pietrus and a pick?? C'mon now...

by lightz0ut on Jan 3, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I bet someone here

would probably swap mp2 for barea.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Jan 3, 2008 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh, heh...

...yeah, I might do that, actually... if they throw in a pick.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True dat...

...I agree. Who the heck is Fazekas?! Not worth the time or money...not at this point in his career.

by BigTex84 on Jan 3, 2008 1:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

JJ Barea...

...short, but feisty!! He would fit right in with your run and gun system...he's pretty accurate too!!

by BigTex84 on Jan 3, 2008 1:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

That's what I was thinking...

...I saw Barea play when ther Mavs phoned in the second-to-last game against us last regular season. I think he could be a useful backup point, which is what we need, is it not?

Even if not, if we could get Barea and maybe a second rounder for Pietrus (not impossible), you have to take the deal. Addition by subtraction. Pietrus has been absolutely brutal, always kills our momentum.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 1:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

barea is

no different than monta in terms of what they do. He doesnt have the distributing point skills we need. Pietrus is killing our mojo hard though

by Thoang77 on Jan 3, 2008 2:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Lol

Barea to Monta Comparison... lol

by Proof on Jan 3, 2008 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

Maybe we could trade MP for Mbenga and Croshere. Those are two Mavs that would work well on our team... oh wait... sorry.

by olympicmike on Jan 3, 2008 3:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Only attractive FEASIBLE piece

...that the Mavs have is Brandon Bass, IMO. I have no idea what his cap numbers are, but he is an athletic, around-the-rim player with good rebounding and a low-maintenance offensive game (ie doesn't score on called plays but rather put-backs, hustle plays, etc). Whattaya think?

by GStateHeavyweight on Jan 3, 2008 3:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

No way

Mavs give up Bass for Pietrus. Bass is the guy they specifically acquired for small teams like us.
Obviously this would be wonderful for us IMO.

by blahblah on Jan 3, 2008 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If every team...

...seems to have one of these damn undersized PFs that board like mad and drive us nuts, why can't we find one? There's probably a dozen guys sitting in the D-League or free agency who you could tell, "just hit the glass, play hard, practice free throws" who could give us what these guys give other teams. The reason it works is because the player has no other options, it's a position devoid of ego.

I'll tell you what... he's not a banger, but he can hit the boards, and run the floor, and Don Nelson said he "loved watching him play." Trade Pietrus and bring in Rod Benson!

Rod's NBDL statline:

14.4 PPG, 13.3 RPG, 1.1 BPG, .549 FG%, +23 PER

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 4:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

God damn Zack

...you're stealing all my arguements!!!! Just as I read

these damn undersized PFs that board like mad and drive us nuts, why can't we find one? There's probably a dozen guys sitting in the D-League

I was think: Rod Benson? He is definitely an athletic rebounder and in his interview at warriorsworld he said he would love to pay here (or probably any f-ing NBA team, right?). But I think it would make sense!

by GStateHeavyweight on Jan 3, 2008 5:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Well hey...

...sorry about stealing your thunder, there.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pietrus

is not going the mavs and there is no realistic deal to be made between the teams.

this is a crappy journalist writing a crappy article with crappy speculation

its crap

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 5:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

wahhhhhhhh

anything of substance to add optionzero?

"Oooh, watch yo biceps Buk, watch yo biceps Bukie."

by tobin on Jan 4, 2008 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Funny thing to thing to say since you popped into this diary only to take a shot at me.

You're wearing a GSoM sweatshirt and boxers, aren't you?

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Would Memphis have any use For MP?

http://commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jan/03/agent-says-stoudamire-will-seek-release-or-trade/

and if so, would Stoudamire fill our need for a back up PG

by azw on Jan 3, 2008 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

At first I thought Soudamire would be a nice fit

maybe for Pietrius or the TPE, but its hard to imagine Mighty Mouse and Monta playing at the same time.

by I SAY WHA I WANNA SAY on Jan 3, 2008 6:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tim Kawakami Drops Science

The Warriors don't need to trade Pietrus (and don't really want to, either)
http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/kawakami/2008/01/03/the-warriors-dont-need-to-trade-pietrus-and-dont- really-want-to-either/

by Atma Brother ONE on Jan 3, 2008 6:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

lol

Kawakami for basketball analysis.

He lost any credibility he might have had when he said we didn't need help at the point.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like Kawakami...

...and I honestly don't disagree with the worries he may have, but I think that Barnes should be getting most of Pietrus' minutes anyways.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 8:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

funny

I call Barnes "The Human Turnover" and trust him less in games then Pietrus.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Jan 4, 2008 3:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ditto

also commits almost the same amount of bad fouls as MP.

by lightz0ut on Jan 4, 2008 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

not usually

a big tim k. fan, but this one makes a ton of sense. MP2 for scraps is a lose/lose for the W's. Only thing I would cast aside for a backup pg is Kosta, maybe POB.

Let's Go Oakland! Gas, Brake, Dip.

by OaktownFunk on Jan 3, 2008 8:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Pietrus isn't bad if you don't

expect too much. He can actually make two basketball decisions in a row this year (sometimes, but defintitely not more) and he boards well and mixes it up a little inside on D. He takes a couple bad shots, but he hits open shots, too (because he doesn't think enough to think too much about wide open shots). I think he's worth more than a good perimeter defender or an undersized scoring point guard (t-hud, but younger). But I'd still rather have Andris bringing it up court than Pietrus.

And who else would be as good at the Valentine's Day promos?

[URL=http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bdwv9.jpg][IMG]http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/1139 /bdwv9.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

by DubBlue on Jan 3, 2008 10:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

...about Andris. In the last week, I've seen two plays wher Andris actually dribbled in from outside the arc and hit a sweeping layup. I can't recall the last time I saw Mickael do that.

(Note: I really do like Mickael's personality and all, I'm just at my wit's end with some of his play. I'm not trying to be too harsh on him.)

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 11:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Pietrus

As I have repeatedly pointed out, the biggest problem with Pietrus is his atrocious foul rate.

Worse, that's a problem the rest of the Warriors have too, particularly Barnes and Harrington.

So Pietrus "seems" ok on first impression, but he's a bigger detriment than one might think.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 11:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He does take fouls

away from more valuable players and he (or whoever he would be traded for) wouldn't be in long enough to be in serious foul trouble themselves. That said, you're right, a lot of his fouls are stupid fouls that hurt in the bonus at key times. I guess I've convinced myself of your point while writing this, but I'm still not sold on the available options mentioned above as a tradeoff to what he actually does bring. Maybe I'm too conservative.

by DubBlue on Jan 3, 2008 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah

but I can't remember where a Pietrus stupid foul has cost a game this year. Or even contributed substantially to one. We'd still have to get something substantial enough to make up for what we'd give away. A white chocolate trade is tempting, but I still have reservations. He might be able to take us out of more games than Pietrus could. This is probably the wrong post for that, though.

by DubBlue on Jan 3, 2008 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

...some folks might view it as addition by subtraction.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 11:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pietrus

As I said, people don't NOTICE the effect, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

Pietrus didn't commit any game ending fouls (like th e Arenas incident last year)- but when he fouls he pushes us into the bonus faster when everyone else fouls. It's subtle; it's not something that will jump out at you like a "clutch" shot or Barnes-esque hard foul...but it matters.

Pietrus averages 2.68 fouls in 17.6 minutes per game

Barnes averages 2.89 fouls in 24 minutes per game.

Put those two guys together as our primary bench options and it's no wonder why our opponents rack up regular FTA advantages. They get their fouls in bunches, kill the pace, give free points to the other team, and deny other teammates the use of those fouls. It likely colors the refs' view on our defense as well, but thats my speculation.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 11:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I trust Barnes less

than MP now. And that's still not saying much.

Barnes turns the ball over too damn much and fouls at a horrid rate. Barnes' problem is that he tries to do too much, while MP, generally stays within his game.

MP's fouls look stupid, and are stupid. But fouls are fouls and count equally against each player. Barnes is a little more consistent, but still a streaky player, and hurts/helps the team just as much as MP does.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Jan 4, 2008 3:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You do have to take into consideration

These people are being asked to guard bigger, stronger players all the time. Come on... Pietrus/Barnes guarding the opposing teams' power forward? Harrington at 6'8 handling their center? It works against Yao because although he is quick, the rest of the Rockets don't know how to set up plays to space the floor enough to get Yao an open touch against the Warrior scrambling D. And it's not just these three racking up the fouls. Baron often has 4 fouls before the end of the 3rd period... its just their style of defense. In regards to Pietrus... he's worth a hell of a lot more than Hassell or Barea! I'd rather keep him until the end of the season. 6 fouls is 6 fouls!

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

by mightymadskillz on Jan 4, 2008 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

...so?

First of all: does it matter who they're guarding? Fouls are fouls, they still count, and they're counting against us heavily.

Second: While they do spend time at PF; Barnes and Pietrus have been used also against smaller guys. The whole point of Barnes/Pietrus at PF is to have the ability to switch our 4 onto other 1/2/3 types on the pick and roll, and when they do they, they foul as well. It's not as if fouling problems are ONLY against Boozer/Duncan- we foul guys like Jerry Stackhouse all the time. Big, small, we're equal opportunity hackers.

Many of Pietrus fouls come from overaggressive help- we've seen him crash into his own teammates multiple times trying for a block.

Barnes problem is he takes lots of high-risk, low reward plays. Trying to thread a full court bouncepass through 3 defenders...what does that get you except a turnover? Trying to throw ur body into 3 other guys to get a rebound? Wasted foul.

If u want to know why our bench sucks usually, it's because Croshere has been hurt; Hudson suck; Barnes and Pietrus are stupid.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I've never...

...minded it too much with Barnes, simply because when he foul somebody, he usually fouls them emphatically enough so to prevent the basket. Harrington, though, must be leading the league in giving up the three point play. I often wonder how much of that sort of thing is bad habits coached in at a young age.

Pietrus' fouls are troublesome to me because they kill the momentum, yes, and also because they're dumb fouls. Barnes, you can say he's overaggressive. Harrington, you could say he's just got a lot of bad habits. But Pietrus crashes into guys twenty feet from the basket. If the shot clock is ticking down, and the opposing player sees Pietrus on the floor, all he has to do is do a ball fake about an inch in the air and he's on the line.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 11:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Another aspect of needless fouling

OZ has a good point about the effects of stupid foul, beyond the obvious - getting in the bonus.

The warriors need rythm and momentum more than pretty much any team in the league right now. They use it to orchestrate those unbelievable 15-0, 16-5 runs that get them back into games, gets them off to a great start or gets the opponent to throw up the white flag. During those stretches, offense and defense are melded into 1, where defense begets offense and vice versa. Its the ONE thing we fans wait for in every warriors game. Nothing gums that up more than a ref's whistle.

As OZ has often stated, to the point of overstating, fouls and whistles break up the rythm. The more whistles, the less likely we see the warriors go on long runs. The dubs flirt with disaster enough with their scrambling, ball stripping defense. Add stupid, mindless fouls to the equation, and it's like giving the opposing coach extra time outs to break the warrior's rythm.

And who leads the team in mindless, mo killing fouls? Mr Air France. That's who.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Jan 4, 2008 12:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Buk is better than

anyone the dubs could trade Pietrus for. As long as he took the bulk of the available minutes, you could trade Pietrus' expiring contract for the postage stamp on my next rent check and the 2.1 minutes per game whatever pg in the deal would get.

by DubBlue on Jan 4, 2008 2:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tim's point was

That Pietrus has very little trade value right now, he's a marginal player who hasn't shown any progress in the last few years, and that we could trade him for a marginal backup PG. Is that going to push us over the edge? No. Is it going to reduce BD's PT? A little. But it's also going to make us very thin on the wing, where we need depth and versatility for Nellieball to function.

Right now, if Baron gets injured, we're screwed. If we got rid of Pietrus, anybody on the team getting injured would almost mean the end of our season (including said backup PG).

I think Tim has a pretty good point. The opportunity cost of keeping Pietrus is pretty low. Trading him for a backup PG is simply trading one risk for another.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 4, 2008 10:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wings

You're assuming that sending Pietrus out will only be accompanied with a small guard coming back.

In reality, there's likely to also be a 4 and a 1 coming back (whether in the same move or another move).

The best rotation would be

Baron/Ellis/3rd PG
Azubuike/Ellis
Jack/Barnes
harrington/new 4/wright
Biedrins/harrington or mbenga

A new 4 and new 1 means more rest for Baron, less of Pietrus/Barnes, and presumably, better team play

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

All well and good...

But we're already running thin suggesting that somebody might want to give us a serviceable backup PG for Pietrus, now you're looking at another PF in the deal? The only viable trade piece we can add at that point is PoB. Unless you want to try to throw Cro in there for 15 minutes a game at PF... maybe not our worst option if he's healthy.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 4, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

trading pieces

So now your argument is that we can't make any other deals?

As far as I see it, our trade chips:

Ellis
TPE
first rounder
second rounder
Pietrus
POB

All have positive value of varying degrees (probably that order from greatest to least).

Whether we find a good match and get equal or better value...we'll see.

To suggest we can't trade Pietrus because his "loss" will inevitably make the team worse one way or the other...I don't agree.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So many variables

You forgot to add these trade pieces in:

Baron
Jax
Al
Barnes
Beans
Buke
DJ
Cro
Belinelli
Wright
Kosta
First rounder in 2009
Second rounder in 2009
First rounder in 2010
Second rounder in 2010
etc.

Did I forget anybody? Do you have any suggestions that might work, or are you just saying "We have basketball players under salary that we can trade."?

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 4, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

More foolishness

The pieces I mentioned are pieces that could realistically be used this trade deadline.

You just threw our names out there.

There's posting and then there's posting something with merit.

I've got lots of ideas, what's your point?

The fact remains your concern about the effect of Pietrus' departure is unfounded.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sigh...

If we're moving Ellis as well, our lineup from your earlier post looks like:

Baron/2nd PG
Azubuike
Jack/Barnes
harrington/new 4/Cro
Biedrins/harrington or mbenga

You can throw Jack/Barnes in as a backup SG, but you can't get away from the fact that we'd be thin at SG and SF. This still leaves us open to (in order of importance): 1. Injury, 2. Foul trouble, 3. Fatigue.

<Tongue in cheek>
If we can get our trade partner, "Team X", to throw in the oversized, athetic "2nd SG" , and the super cheap, but effective in short spurts "3rd C" to go along with "new 4" and "3rd PG", I say go for it immediately. Our lineup will look like:

Baron/2nd PG
Azubuike/2nd SG
Jack/Barnes/2nd SG
harrington/new 4/Cro
Biedrins/harrington/3rd C/mbenga

UNSTOPPABLE BABY!
</Tongue in cheek>

You can talk about theoretical players all you want, but as long as you're plugging in "new 4" or "3rd PG", you've contributed nothing to the discussion except "WE NEED A BACKUP PG, and depth at PF" (we already know this), and "We can trade players for other players to be named later" (you think?).

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 4, 2008 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

uh

sigh

I guess you could get away with a copout "OMG OZ DIDN"T BOTHER BEING SPECIFIC"

As an example of how it's not that big a deal to flesh out the roster:

TPE + 2nd for Chris Duhon = PG

TPE for Ridnour/Watson + pick = PG

Pietrus, POB + 2nd for Stoudamire +Warrick = PG + PF

Ellis + Pietrus for Charlie Villanueva + Charlie Bell = PG/SG + PF

Sign Tarence Kinsey (FA) = SG

Pietrus for Carlos Arroyo = SG

Ellis for David Lee = PF

Ellis, Pietrus, POB for Jared Jeffries, Renaldo Balkman, and David Lee = PF/SF/F

and i'm too lazy to keep going

given our assets, we could flush out the roster without too much of a problem

i had the warriors overpaying in some circumstances just to convince the hypothetical team to do the deal

the details shouldn't be too hard to hammer out, but if i can throw out a buncha random ideas in 5 minutes, Mullin and Nellie and staff could probably do better

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Call it what you like

I'll call it a copout when you start changing the subject.
My initial point was that Kawakami's point of "Let's not ship Pietrus out for a backup PG" was valid. For one reason or another, he didn't tackle other trade scenarios. When I defended it you went in a completely different direction and started talking about "new 4" and the like.

Directly quoted from Kawakami's article:

I hear time and again that the Warriors need a back-up point guard. Yes, they do. But not more than they need options at the back-up wing spots

Getting a 4 in return kinda addresses that "back-up wing spot". Seems to me that you kinda agree with his sentiment. Read the article before you bash it and those that defend it.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 4, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kawakami

Given that Kawakami is coming from the same perspective that you are trying to argue for, I don't see where i'm going off topic.

He says:

Trade Pietrus for PG = less wing depth

Which is more or less what you said

I said:

Trading Pietrus for PG /= less wing depth because wing depth can be replaced.

I didn't even bother mentioning guys like Joey Graham or Ricky Davis that could likely be had at the deadline and fill Pietrus' shoes without costing very much.

Kawakami also made his argument appear better by listing a bunch of crappy options (any list that includes Payton or Boykins is by definition, crap).

My point stands. Depth should not be a concern when it comes to Pietrus. He's gone either way, you might as well use him as a trading piece.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

trade realities

Pietrus's trade value is limited by several things.

One is that he can veto any trade (thus the "why don't we trade him for player_x" are moot if he doesn't want to play for player_x's team).

Beyond this, any team that gets him is probably just renting him as at year's end he's a free agent and a team that trades for him does not get his Bird rights in the deal. They'd have to dip into an exception to keep him, something that they can do without trading for him.

This means his attraction to another team is as a rental and/or an expiring contract. As an expiring contract, a team acquiring him would have to have something of value for us to consider keeping that salary around.

A backup point guard would be nice, but it's limited to one making ~3 million a year for a couple of years coming from a team that wants to shed that player's relatively meager salary for some reason in favor of a rental 2-3 type who has some extreme limitations. Find that team/player and maybe you can sell MP on the deal. But if you can't...

I don't think MP is going anywhere. There's just too many roadblocks to a realistic deal getting done.

by jae on Jan 4, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs