Mighty Mouse wants out

by gsw4life on Jan 3, 2008 7:46 PM PST Comment 33 comments

Damon Stoudamire received a DNP-CD in the Grizzlies' last game, which was Mike Conley's first start. With the team's season going nowhere it looks like they'll look to give Conley heavy minutes. They also have Kevin Lowry and Juan Carlos Navarro to play the point.

Stoudamire's agent says that his client wants to be traded or released. Getting Stoudamire for cheap would be nice. The only possible problem I see is that Damon complained the first game he didn't play for the Grizzlies, and he might do the same if Nellie gives him some DNP-CDs, but perhaps he would be less quiet on a winning team?

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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I've never...

...really perceived Stoudemire as having been part of anything positive. If he gets bought out, though, might be worth a look.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 7:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

sure

Only if we get Hakeem Warrick along the way.

POB + Pietrus

They get out from Stoudamire's deal and potentially an athletic 7 footer.

We get our talented offensive backup PF and a veteran PG who might actually be healthy enough to get burn.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 9:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I've never...

...been all that sold on Warrick. Last year he played twenty five minutes per game, and he didn't hit the boards too well. I'd probably be more inclined to take a crack at Rod Benson, who's leading the D-League in rebounds right now, and has a decent semblance of an offensive game.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 9:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

i second that

while benson might not be the answer for guarding the likes of boozer and duncan, he knows how to rebound...racked up 28 pts and 28 boards a little over a week ago, and even if its in the dleague, still pretty impressive. just hope the dubs can get him before someone else calls him up. he could definitely be the next francisco elson...cal fans?..anyone?

by ElevationSensation on Jan 4, 2008 1:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thirded

BOOM THO MOVEMENT back in effect

"I bet that Mike Conley could find Osama Bin Laden...if he was open."

by nativeson on Jan 4, 2008 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

did someone

say ROD BENSON? lets get a petition going...he needs to get back in the bay.

straight g

by RC650 on Jan 6, 2008 2:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought...

just like everyone else that we need a back-up point. However, after reading Tim Kawakami's blog post, I'd have to agree with him. How much will these guards we mentioned help? All of them are either too old (payton), too small (Stoddy/J Williams), or un-realistic (Andre Miller, earl watson, for ex.). I'd say go after some inside help (Joe Smith looked good tonight against Portland!! LOL j/k).

by geemoney650 on Jan 3, 2008 10:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Kawakami

Kawakami is completely wrong.

While one issue is Nellie's minute management, our offense very frequently grinds to a halt when Baron leaves. Jack is NOT the solution because he is often even more inefficient that Baron: worse shot selection, more turnovers, more pounding the rock (or just holding it...holding it...holding...then taking a contested J).

A backup point guard does many things:

Get baron rest
create shots for everyone else
maintain tempo
reduce wasted possessions

It'd be nice if the backup PG could also shoot Ft's well and defend.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Works short term

But long term, the ENTIRE team would begin to show the effects of the increased PT from losing Pietrus. More fatigue at the end of the game from everybody except Baron (which would mean closer games, meaning Nellie would leave Baron out there, meaning his PT wouldn't really decrease), more fouling out, less depth at every position but PG.

I like your MM+Warrick idea, but I don't really see Memphis going for it unless MM starts completely killing their chemistry with whining and moaning.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 4, 2008 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

again

A pietrus trade doesn't exist in a vacuum; there will presumably be another move for a 1 or 4.

It's not like we're trading a guy and forcing everyone else to play more.

Even if we traded Pietrus for a bag of chips (that works under Rule XYZ of the CBA), I wouldn't cry if Brandan Wright or Belinelli got a little extra burn.

Your concerns about dire exhaustion for our team is unfounded.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dire exhaustion?

Exaggerate a little? I said I liked your 1+4 trade, did I not? If you'd said "we'd still need to make another move to replace depth on the wing", I wouldn't have said so, and you wouldn't have needed to get all uppity.

And you wouldn't cry if BW or Belly got some more burn, but maybe Nellie would... highlight tapes and garbage time minutes don't operate in a vacuum.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 4, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pietrus and exhaustion

Pietrus averages less than 20 minutes a game (roughly 17). You say that his loss will mean the existing players will have to play more and get tired.

I merely pointed out that Pietrus minutes (again, merely 17) could be filled with existing players, whether it's more Azubuike (a good thing), more Barnes (roughly a wash), or more Belinelli/Wright (developmentally a good thing, to win now, who knows), or some combination there of.

It's not like Pietrus is giving us a Tyrus Thomas-like 17 minutes of last year; at best I'd argue he's a neutral factor in his time.

I don't think I'm being "uppity" by suggesting we can make up 17, at best, neutral minutes from our existing roster, much less with anything we get back in various trades.

Re-using my words doesn't make you look better when accompanied with faulty analysis.

Pietrus would not be a significant loss.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Earl Watson...

...could play well at our speed, I think he could be had. Seattle certainly has little need for him, since it's obvious neither he nor Ridnour is the point guard they're going to want to pair with Durant for the long haul.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 10:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Watson

Would be nice, but his contract is again the holdup, and we don't have a bad long term one to swap with them (if they were inclined do make such a deal)

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

How much...

...is he making? I can't even imagine what we have that Seattle would want, come to think... probably picks, and I'd rather not trade picks as a general rule.

by Zack Vank on Jan 3, 2008 11:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Watson

Is making roughly $6M each for the next 3 years.

If we were interested, I imagine the TPE alone would be enough to get him, as Seattle wants to ditch one of Ridnour/Watson's contracts.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 3, 2008 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

18 mil for 3 years? Ouch!

He'd be a good addition, but at that price tag... Oooh...

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Jan 4, 2008 12:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

actually

i rounded down, so it's more than $18M =P

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Any deal with Seattle

whether it's Watson or Rid, should entail obtaining Kurt Thomas

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2007/12/25/1141/0119

if we want to go deeper in the playoffs this season, we need to get a big who can contribute this season to that effort whether or not it's KT

if we want Wright and Marco to get more burn, we aren't focusing on this season's playoffs, it's that simple.

the backup PG is of secondary importance to a big if going deep in the playoffs is our goal ...

in Nelson we trust

by hardcore on Jan 4, 2008 11:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thomas

I didn't bother chiming in last time (or the last times Thomas was brought up, but I'm not convinced he's the answer.

We played faster last year and play faster this year than the Suns; our styles are considerably different. We get more isolation/1 on 1 than the Suns; they have a much, MUCH more efficient PG; they run the half court offense far more effectively.

I actually think Thomas would be a marginal improvement, at best, over Mbenga. Thomas doesn't block shots or run the floor particularly well; he doesn't generate steals and at this stage in his career I can't imagine him switching out on the wings or blitzing the pick and roll, even in limited time.

He might be useful if we found our selves in a grind-it-out halfcourt battle with Duncan, but ..thats why I say any advantage he brings is minimal.

If we get him with the TPE, no biggie since he expires and presumably we don't give up anything else...but I wouldn't surender a pick for him.

While I agree we could use a 4 since Barnes/Pietrus are sucking, and I'm wary of Wright's ability to contribute more...I think that 4 we get better be more talented than Kurt Thomas.

I'll take Warrick for now, and keep an eye out for other options. Tyrus Thomas would be real nice, lol.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kurt

I agree with you that Kurt will have a tougher time fitting into our system than Phoenix's, but he's much more than a marginal improvement over Mbenga. He can actually catch and finish inside. He can hit the mid-ranger, he's faster, and he's a better rebounder.

Basically Nelson has found a reason to give Mbenga playing time occasionally. Give those minutes to Kurt and we're a better team.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 4, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

minutes

So Thomas>Mbenga, I could probably accept that.

Yet Mbenga hardly plays, so giving his minutes to Thomas would, as I say...but a minimal improvement to the team.

It's not gonna be the difference between making the playoffs or not.

I'd like to also note that Mbenga is a shotblocker, which is probably more of a benefit to our style of D than an individual post defender or potentially more reliable offensive threat in Thomas

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

good point...

Plus with all defensive switching(the dubs switch on ALL SCREENS except the ones on Monta)Thomas' help defense capabilities would have to considered to be an upgrade over MBenga, too. With his block numbers, I don't think that'll be the case.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Jan 4, 2008 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Adding KT

makes us more of a threat to not only make the playoffs but to defend the Boozers and Duncans we hope to see there - to have a winning chance

We have Mbanga backup AB exclusively & KT/Harrington at the PF and we have Croshere coming back - we have some players for Nelson to mix and match that give him a legit chance to get to the WCF. Wright can develop in practice but I'd rather have a shot at winning now with Baron, Jax, Nelson et al.

From SEA pov, anything they get for KT now is gravy after the 1strounders they got just to take his contract, we wouldn't have to offer much (POB?) and he'd be a player for this season's playoff run without any strings in the future. Take him with the TPE and give up a 2nd rounder - we're young enough a roster as it is, especially if you think there's a snowball's chance of Kosta being in the future plans, that 2nd rounder is not a lot to give up for KT.

Bonus - you get your backup PG if we pull off a package deal.

All speculation aside, I want to see what Mullin is willing to pull the trigger on to give Don a chance to get deeper into the playoffs this year, our current roster isn't good or big enough ...

in Nelson we trust

by hardcore on Jan 4, 2008 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the pg

TPE for Thomas is fairly straightforward, although it doesn't net the Sonics much. They'd likely want at least a 2nd back (i wouldn't even do that...)

The "pg" part is much harder. The only bad contract we could send in return is Kosta, who makes a negligible amount ($1.75M) for next year.

If we were exceptionally bold...and I mean, really, REALLY bold:

Ellis + Wright for Damien Wilkins + Delonte West + both phoenix pix (08 and 10)

Pietrus + POB + 2nd for Stoudamire + Warrick

Baron/Stoudamire
Azubuike/West
Jack/Barnes/Wilkins
Harrington/Warrick
Biedrins/Mbenga

There's your "ready-now", deep, Nellieball team, but I'm just going crazy with the trade checker at this point. Veteran backup PG, talented young backup combo guard, scoring machine swingman, athletic scoring machine PF, all off the bench. Get 'em to play smart defense (good luck) and we're gonna win the championship!

Have you seen Nick Collison play? I think he'd be a better fit talent wise- he boards about as well as Wilcox, but he moves his feet on D, knocks down the midrange J, and blocks shots at a decent rate. He's younger, but has a horrible contract (also $6m/year for like 4 more years). And he's BYC. Just sayin'.

A Golden state of mind Indeed.

AIM: Jetforze

by OptionZero on Jan 4, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

SEA wrings hands in glee

SEA gets out of half of KT's contract, with a couple firsts (from the original deal) and a second to show for their troubles - not a bad haul if you ask me for holding a bad contract for only half a season in which they knew they weren't going anywhere anyway

& I do like Collison, followed him all the way from his days at KU in fact, but agree I doubt we could get him for all the reasons you said ...

in Nelson we trust

by hardcore on Jan 4, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kurt vs DJ

Kurt knows how to help on D. DJ may get more blocks, but Kurt can get to the right spot quicker and the overall defensive effect will be the same.

Even if DJ would be a better fit on defense for us (which I'm not sure of), I think you're underestimating the offensive difference between these two players. I mean, it's not even close. As we've seen, DJ is a huge liability on offense that can barely catch the ball. Kurt can actually hit the mid-range J. He's also averaging 2.7 offensive boards per game in 24 minutes per game this year, a pretty good rate.

If I'm Mullin I'd jump at the chance to get Kurt for the TPE and 2nd rounder

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Jan 5, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If picks are involved...

...I wouldn't do it, but I'm never really in favor of trading picks away. A second rounder in a deal to net you a superstar, perhaps... but draft picks are just too valuable, especially seeing how active the Warriors have been on draft night lately.

by Zack Vank on Jan 4, 2008 5:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

are you referring to

Lasme? our #2

Marco? Wright? Kosta?

our drafts lately have been spotty, to be kind to Mullin (not my m.o. btw, but now that Nelson is on hand, Ellis and Andris are working out nicely ... )

I'd gamble on KT for a future #2 to give us a better chance to make some noise in the playoffs - no long term contract anchor, a good veteran who can both defend and hit midrange shots - and I'd doubt we could land another big for less who's better suited

not to mention, there is no reason to assume we couldn't resign him if both sides liked the match ...

in Nelson we trust

by hardcore on Jan 4, 2008 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would say that...

...Ellis and Biedrins are certifiable as good picks, especially Ellis out of the second round. Lasme was at least an intriguing piece, but for whatever reason they didn't like him as much as Mbenga, which as I see more and more of him seems like a bad move to me. Marco and Wright haven't gotten much of any burn, I suspect less because they couldn't handle it than it is Nelson not wanting to trust his last couple years to unknown quantities. But, based on what little I've seen, I'd give Marco about a 50%-60% of being a worthwhile rotation player long term, with maybe a 5%-10% chance he blows up and becomes a lead guard. Brandan Wright I'm convinced will be a great, great pick as long as Nelson doesn't convince Mullin to move him. I'm big on Wright.

by Zack Vank on Jan 4, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

eh

id go with decent. the team's best players have come from free agency and trades. the draft has provided good role players (monta, AB) but no one they've drafted has really materialized into anything great. why not just keep doing what you do well? they have a surplus of "future players."

straight g

by RC650 on Jan 6, 2008 2:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

back to Damon

If we picked him up with his current contract, it would be far less than other options promoted here (such as paying $10m for a backup PG!). Next year DS could earn up to $4.65 million in the final year of his contract, which is a lot for a backup PG perhaps, but it is also impacted by minutes he averages playing this season. As a backup to BD, his minutes would not be that high = possibly lowering his cost to us further while being an upgrade to our PG depth. And if BD were do go down with an injury, he's a veteran NBA PG to run with. Plus, most players coming from a situation where they've been demoted have a chip on their shoulder and play to prove something (if not their next contract), hence he'd be motivated. Negatives - he's not a difference maker by himself, he's 34, not a great shooter, and we'd have another small guard (though not as small as Boykins!).

by hardcore on Jan 4, 2008 5:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think...

...we should really be looking to pry Darrell Armstrong from New Jersey. He's probably a better locker room guy, and is basically a one year rental, but at least he wouldn't have any delusions of granduer like Stoudamire might. Plus I like Armstrong on offense more. He's still got some quick in him.

by Zack Vank on Jan 4, 2008 5:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs