Idea: Desmond Mason

by jlagace on Jan 31, 2008 10:56 PM PST Comment 19 comments

Here's one that I don't think I've seen here yet..

Desmond Mason
for
Pietrus and POB

Pros:

Desmond Mason was brought into Milwaukee for his intensity, his DEFENSE, and his veteran leadership. Last time I checked, the Warriors fastbreak and easy bucket opportunities come from when they play solid defense, and it starts at the perimeter. Baron and Jackson get worn down sometimes from heavy minutes, and Barnes, Azubuike, and Monta Ellis aren't exactly good perimeter defenders themselves.

If you look at Mason's stats, you might come away unimpressed. Nevermind those, think Bruce Bowen. Think strong versatile defender who can guard two guard and small forward. Think of him as a guy that can lock down a player, then run the break with us and throw down on the other end with a highlight reel dunk to get the crowd going (that's one aspect we don't have since JRich departed that isn't shown in the boxscore).

Here's how I'd see it:

PG Baron / Ellis / Watson
SG Mason / Ellis / Azubuike
SF Jackson / Mason / Barnes
PF Harrington / Barnes / Croshere
C Biedrins / Webber / Perovic

Before you jump out of your chair because Monta is on the bench, I want you to listen. Ellis could have a huge impact off the bench like Ben Gordon does. When Gordon comes into the game, he can play most of the game not having to exert too much energy against defending bigger players because he's going up against second-string guards. He's allowed to just go out there and score, and he's been putting up 30 point games since the move to the bench. That's what I want Monta to do, just go in there and focus on scoring, because that's what he's best suited to doing.

Meanwhile, our starting lineup boasts three lockdown perimeter defenders. Not bad, yeah?

And need I remind again, he could finish our fastbreaks with some of these..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aITDRL6hUVA

Playing hard-nosed defense, forcing turnovers and igniting fastbreaks, and throwing down exciting jams? That's sounds like Warriors basketball to me.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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no way

I really hate Desmond Mason, I think Pietrus is at least as good or better than Mason. Better defensively at the very least.

by q00pster on Jan 31, 2008 2:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

my god...

This would make the team so much worse. Desmond Mason does not deserve to start on a crappy team, let alone a team striving for the playoffs. Monta Ellis is so much better than him. In pretty much every way. Plus, we already have two good defenders that can guard 2s and 3s, Stephen Jackson and Baron!

Anyways, Ben Gordon doesn't light it up cuz he's playing against second string guards, you think the opposing team's coach is gonna go, "oh, I guess since he's playing his bench so I'll play mine". No, he's going, "oh snap, they're playing the only guy on the bulls that can score worth a damn, I should put my best guy on him".

by kinetic on Jan 31, 2008 3:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

oh...

and have you seen some of the stuff monta pulls? He's one of the best finishers in the league. I laugh out loud after every one of his crazy lay-ups, they're mind-boggling. If that doesn't get you going I don't know what would.

by kinetic on Jan 31, 2008 3:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

a slightly more athletic

Ruben Patterson is what Mason is. While he would play some D and would throw down from time to time, his lack of handles and jumpshot would further hinder our half court offense. We already have guys who run the break well, we need guys who can contribute when the game slows down a bit.

With Nellie being all about the matchups, I'd much rather them deal P and POB for Charlie V instead. He can run and shoot plus he's long. The guy sits because the Bucks promised to play Yi 30 minutes a night in exchange for them allowing him to play there. Plus with Bogut's emergence if you will call it that, it's no wonder they are shopping Villanueva.

by misterjennings on Jan 31, 2008 3:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Villanueva

Villanueva can shoot. The problem is that he can't shoot accurately. His points per shot is terrible for a pass-first point guard. For a big man, it's inexcusable. There's nothing to recommend him. He isn't much of a rebounder for his size. His scoring efficiency is terrible. He doesn't draw fouls. He's tall. He's one of the least productive players in the NBA.

Pietrus can veto any trade. It seems he's in everyone's mock trade proposal because few want him around, but actually dealing him isn't particularly easy.

by jae on Jan 31, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ellis starts

unless we get a kobe-quality player...he's gonna start..i think that's pretty well established by now.

by JudBooshlur on Jan 31, 2008 10:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

asdf

WTF, Mason doesn't do squat but score and he doesn't even shoot a good %. Atleast MP2 can rebound, Mason is a horrible player. There's no logic to trading for Mason, plus I'm sure he has a longer contract. I don't understand people bringing up topics for retarded trades, think about it before you post it.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Jan 31, 2008 1:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Just wow. The only thing that Mason does is score? I don't know where you got this info from.. cuz he's NOT a scorer. Please, make your judgments on players from more than just what you see in the boxscore.

And I never said we're going to limit Monta's minutes, he's going to get the same amount; just off the bench. Mason would come in (and start) to guard the other team's best offensive wings, Baron and Stephen Jackson could save more of their energy for the offensive end. Monta would still get the majority of the minutes at SG, he'll just be in at different spots.

If nobody sees the advantages of trying to hide Monta on the defensive end as much as possible against starting shooting guards in the league, then I don't know what to say. If people think putting a 6'2" 175 pound kid against the NBA elite shooting guards come playoff time is a-okay as long as he scores 17 points per game, then I guess I won't be getting through to anyone here. Or we can just continue to let our superstar PG wear down and waste his energy against guarding said opposing team SG's.

I never said anything about who's guarding Ben Gordon when he's in the game, but I did say something about who HE has to guard for the majority of his minutes. That's what matters, not who guards him, but who HE has to guard; because that's where his major liability lies.

by jlagace on Jan 31, 2008 5:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

here

rough reg season rotation:
PG Baron 36 / Ellis 6 / Watson 6
SG Mason 18 / Ellis 30
SF Jackson 36 / Mason 6 / Barnes 6
PF Harrington 36 / Croshere 6 / Barnes 6
C Biedrins 36 / Webber 12

estimated playoff rotation:
PG Baron 40 / Ellis 8
SG Mason 16 / Ellis 32
SF Jackson 40 / Mason 3 / Barnes 3
PF Harrington 36 / Croshere 6 / Barnes 6
C Biedrins 36 / Webber 12

next year ideal rotation (assuming Ellis and Biedrins re-sign):
PG Baron 36 / Ellis 12
SG Mason 24 / Ellis 24
SF Jackson 36 / Mason 12
PF Harrington 24 / Wright 24
C Biedrins 36 / Harrington 12

I don't understand why every Warrior's fan is so hungry for more offense all the time. We win games with our DEFENSE. Getting stops and being a transition team is how we succeed. Jogging the ball up and launching three's is not Warriors basketball, it's a byproduct of our wings being tired because we still lack depth (good veteran depth) at the wing positions.

by jlagace on Jan 31, 2008 5:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

One more point of thought

If you read carefully, I'm praising Monta's offensive abilities here.

Look at these players: Manu Ginobili, Jason Terry, Ben Gordon, Leandro Barbosa. Do you guys really believe that they come off the bench because Michael Finley, Devin Harris, Thabo Sefolosha, and Raja Bell are better than them? Hell no, those guys I just mentioned above have a specific role on their team because that's their best fit on the squad, their role is to SCORE off the bench.

I feel Monta Ellis is good enough offensively to be that kind of player, I believe he doesn't need to have Baron holding his hand all the time on offense. I have faith now that if Monta is on the floor without Baron, we're still good enough on the offensive end to be competitive. We have to swallow the fact that Monta should never be be a starting shooting guard on an NBA team, but he has the potential to be one of the league's best 6th men in the NBA.

by jlagace on Jan 31, 2008 6:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nicely done

I like your analysis and I think you have a valid point. I for one think we need a beter perimeter defender to help save energy for our best guys. The one question I have for you is where does Bukie fit in? I didnt see him listed on your rotations.

by highflya on Jan 31, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Buike

At the end of the day, right now he's still a young sophomore guard with only a little over a year's worth of experience in the NBA. He's a solid shooter and he's a strong finisher, but right now I think he's a bit lacking in the defense department.

If you watch him on defense he loses his man quite easily and often, and he gets blown by NBA starting shooting guards.

I'm not really faulting him for that though, because like I said, he only has the NBA equivalent experience of rookie status in the NBA. In addition to that, he's lost his offensive presence when he's in the game. He's not aggressive anymore, he kind of reminds me of Pietrus out there sometimes. He's got a learn to learn, and lots of room to grow, but I don't think he'll be much of a factor this postseason.

Whether or not he's going to be re-signed? I have no idea. Some people here assume he's going to be a lock to be re-signed for cheap. I'm going to say that I don't really have a good prediction on that.

by jlagace on Jan 31, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

above the rim

we definitely could use a guy that can play above the rim. Mason is about the same size as bukie and has good experience in the leaugue. I wonder if he is on the block as well as CV. that could be a very interesting bench considering POB?, MP? Kotsa,possibly being dealt and Croshere having back issues. POB and MP work on the trade machine.
This would suck for Bukie as his playing time will surely be cut.

by highflya on Feb 1, 2008 12:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

asdf

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3416/career;_ylt=AugHxunAUwQgPy6MO5hu.eOkvLYF

Dude doesn't exactly fill up the stat sheet. It's hard to believe that he D's up like you say he does seeing as he's never averaged over 0.9 steals a game. Also, in order to trade MP2 he would have to consent to the trade because of bird rights, I don't see him accepting a trade to the Bucks. Also Mason earns 5 mil this year and probably about the same next which would basically make signing Beans and Ellis both. Also he has a torn thumb ligament that has him sidelined until at least the end of Feb.

Here's about the most realistic trade I could come up with concerning him, which even if it was available I still would hope the Dubs didn't pull the trigger on it.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3019~2173~518&teams=15~15~9&te=&am p;cash=

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 1, 2008 12:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Correction in bold

Also Mason earns 5 mil this year and probably about the same next which would basically make signing Beans and Ellis both HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

PS, there should be an edit button for posts.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 1, 2008 12:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Mason

Steals alone don't define a good NBA defender. Does Stephen Jackson get alot of steals? Bruce Bowen? Raja Bell? Josh Howard?

Meanwhile, guys like Michael Ruffin, Rodney Stuckey, and Penny Hardaway are among the league leaders in steal rate. They don't exactly strike me as the cream of the crop of NBA defenders.

It's hard to evaluate a player's defensive just from looking at stats. There are no widely-accepted statistics that even come close to crediting an NBA players' defense.

Also, Mason is scheduled to come back and start playing as soon as this weekend.

One more reason the Bucks might be okay with dumping his salary early in the contract is because they're stacked with similar types of players. 7 guys of similar stature, 6'6" and under guys that are tweener guard-forwards: Bell, Ivey, Mason, Noel, Redd, Simmons, Storey. But none of them, besides Redd, is a consistent scorer.

Also, yes Mason will make $5 million next year. But he could backup SG and SF, therefore taking the potential salary and minutes that would go to Azubuike and Barnes. Don't worry, still plenty of money to go around for Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins. Plus Mason would be a nice moveable expiring contract next year should they want to move him again.

by jlagace on Feb 1, 2008 1:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

So IYO, Mason > Barnes or Buki?

Not in the warrior's scheme...

Between buki, barnes & mason, mason is
-the worst ball handler
-the worst shooter from any distance outside of 3 feet
-the worst passer
-the worst at creating offense for himself
-worst per min rebounder
-the best perimeter defender (but not by very much) at this point
-THE MOST EXPENSIVE

I don't like that trade at all. Isn't Mason just a Pietrus w/o 3pt range? MP2's main excuse for being a b-ball dimwit is that he's french, what's desmond's excuse? At least MP2 leaves at the end of this year. I'd rather have mp2 for the rest of this year, re-sign buke & barnes, have a good chance of re-signing beans & monta, let mp2 walk and let Milwakee deal with desmond.

Guys like desmond mason come a dime a dozen for a whole lot cheaper.

Best duo since...

by Tim N Chris Burger on Feb 3, 2008 2:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Matchups

Think about our possible playoff matchups this year. Starting Ellis at SG is going to be a whole different ball game than when we were starting JRich at SG, in terms of defensive matchups.

If we meet Dallas again in the playoffs, we are royally screwed this time around. Terry, Harris, and Josh Howard all have gotten better. We couldn't even stop Stackhouse last year in the playoffs, if you remember that. If they have Terry, Stack, and Howard on the floor, what are we going to do about it this time around. Don't forget that we also need SJax to stop Dirk. Are we going to put Monta on Stack and let him rain open three's on us all day? Or maybe put him on Terry and let his ankles get broken. Put Monta on Josh Howard? Forget it. Especially with Brandon Bass (undersized athletic type PF that always kill us), the matchups just don't favor us this time around unless we get another competent, veteran wing defender.

LA Lakers? Even worse matchups for us. Baron, Monta, Jackson vs Fisher, Kobe, and Ariza/Odom? Putting Baron and his creaky knees against playoff-mindset Kobe is a recipe for disaster. Jackson on Kobe? Who's going to guard Ariza/Odom then. Ellis on Kobe??

Denver. Do we want Baron chasing around Allen Iverson all day?

Even Portland.. I know everybody doesn't want to hear this now, but Brandon Roy would destroy Monta Ellis.

We can hide Monta against some teams I think.. teams that have small wings that lack offensive versatility for example. We can hide Monta on Bowen in San Antonio, we can hide Monta on Mo Pete on the Hornets, we can hide Monta on Battier in Houston for example. But if we run into a team where we can't hide Monta on defense, we're screwed.

by jlagace on Feb 1, 2008 1:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs