The Stephen Jackson Quandary
So I was at the game last night vs. the Spurs. First off, that game was awesome to be at in person. It rivaled the Lakers game earlier this year and the Playoffs last year. Way to go Dubs on being 2-0 vs. the Spurs in a month and a half.
So Stephen Jackson had a absolutely horrible first 2.5 quarters last night and its funny how many times he shot an air ball, was doubled even tripled and took strange contorted shots that didn't hit the rim, turned the ball over off his leg when dribbling into the lane and absolutely got his ankles broke by Manu Ginobli. There was a guy behind us that relentlessly clowned and dogged SJax screaming how horrible he was, how stupid he was, how he needed to stop shooting, how he needed to pass the ball as soon as he touched it. It took all the control in my body to not turn around and punch the living daylights out of this guy. The crappy thing is that he's a guy I see every game I go to so I didn't want to possibly ruin all the future games he and I would be attending just to tell him to STFU. The sad thing is he is a huge Dubs fan.
How can you sh*t on a player that has been the lifeline (aside from BD) of the team since he returned. The ironic thing was that as usual, SJax stepped it up big time when needed and was the hero of the game. How can someone just talk so much smack at the top of their lungs about SJax and be a Warrior fan? Is it possible? Is SJax that bad? Am I the only one who can take the good with the bad when it comes to SJax because as annoying as he can be, the guy just seems to be the man when needed. I'd take him all day long and to that guy, the supposed warrior fan who hated SJax, no more high fives when he saves our butts as he often does...
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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64 comments
Comments
Game 6 vs. Mavs, 3rd Quarter.
by SleepyFloyd on Jan 8, 2008 11:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
well you were at the game, but Fitz said something
by I SAY WHA I WANNA SAY on Jan 8, 2008 11:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
supposing
I like Jax, but still hope he and Baron shoot the ball better in the second half.
With their slashing ability, don't you think they should shoot more ft's than they do? I'd gladly take more FT attempts than increased 3-point attempts.
by kenntoe on Jan 8, 2008 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Love/hate relationship
He'd probably save a few fans from heart attacks if he didn't start shooting until the 2nd half of games. I'd be curious to see his shooting numbers in the 2nd half of games compared to his 1st half numbers.
Best duo since...
by Tim N Chris Burger on Jan 8, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jax has done a lot of great things here
by Byron Houston We Have A Problem on Jan 8, 2008 12:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I will give him props
by kenntoe on Jan 8, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is tough!
by krazybalr on Jan 8, 2008 12:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Easy solution
Late in the game is the only time he should think about taking over.
When we repeatedly clear it out for him or send him to the low box, the team gets stagnant. He starts looking shot first, second, and third, and we get really in efficient.
He is not really qualified to be the second highest usage guy on a team, but in the absence of ready candidates, he's gonna have to do more to help everyone else.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 8, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
dude
Make your freethrows... PUHLEEZ!!!
by maybenextyear on Jan 8, 2008 1:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i think
by AJC3317 on Jan 8, 2008 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Calling out a guy is one thing
by gabezgsw on Jan 8, 2008 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously what section were you in
by warriorsfiend on Jan 9, 2008 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what section are you in??
by maybenextyear on Jan 9, 2008 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson = 3 Pointer
by ffgolden on Jan 8, 2008 4:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i challenge
straight g
by RC650 on Jan 8, 2008 4:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Clutch, but...
There's definitely something to be said for being clutch at the end of games, but we'd be in a better spot if we could avoid a few wasted possessions earlier in the game.
I still want him on my team, and you've got to take the good with the bad. But at the same time, he could be so much better, and it's hard not get frustrated when he doesn't get that.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
its not
straight g
by RC650 on Jan 8, 2008 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not true
While wins and losses cannot be solely attributed to him, it would be foolish to ignore that he plays a large role in our performance, whether good or bad.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 8, 2008 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, everybody makes mistakes
The volume of Jax's impact on the game is much higher than that of anybody but BD. If you Jax's stupid turnovers (unnecessary no looks, dribbling off his leg, etc.), that's probably an average of one possession/game. If you get him to drive to the basket on a fast break instead of taking his awful 32% from outside the arc, that's probably another 0.5 points/game scored.
Another thing.
I've never understood the whole "rhythm 3s" thing. I just think BD and Jax (our other captain too) take way too many and make way too few. Baron's step back at the end of the LAL win was pretty amazing, but is that really a high percentage shot? Really?
Our captains shoot 16.4 3's per game and make 5.5 for a wonderful rate of just under 33%. The rest of the team (including Monta, THud, and Belly) shoots 10.9 3's per game and makes 4.2 for a very respectable 38.5%.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2008 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's one thing
I'd say there's a reason that a team Nelson crafted was more successful after a defensive/accountability minded coach like Avery Johnson took over.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As a side note...
by Fantasy Junkie on Jan 8, 2008 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't bother...
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2008 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
asdf
He shot over 45% for the Dubs.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2008 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
I was just merely pointing out that he's not in the same league as Mullin, Nash, and Dirk in shooting. But I would certainly take him shooting the rock in his GSW years over what Jax is doing now.
by Fantasy Junkie on Jan 8, 2008 11:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Threes
B-Ref's "True shooting percentage" is a pretty good metric for comparing guys who shoot threes and guys who don't.
PTS / (2*(FGA + (0.44*FTA)
Hardaway shot generally in 53-54% range during his prime, dropping off the 48-49% in his Miami days.
Action Jackson shot a very respectable 54% last year -- 55% with the Dubs. For his career he's at 52%, just a hair worse than Hardaway (53%). This season he's right at his career average: 52%.
Basically, Jack's doing his thing. When you factor in his defense, "intangibles," and reasonable price-tag, it's hard to imagine he's not an overall net positive.
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 9, 2008 4:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The complaint isn't that Jax is a bad player
Look, everybody can make improvements, but if Jax's are more concrete and easy (run back on defense instead of arguing with refs, take high percentage shots in transition) while others are more theoretical difficult (Monta needs to grow, either mentally, as a PG or physically, as in 2 inches and 25 lbs of muscle. Beans needs more touches).
It's like asking for whistle tips on your beamer. It's a very nice vehicle without them, but the whistles go WOO WOO, and that's so much better.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 9, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Preaching to the choir
On Beamers: I bequeathed my '87 325i to my little Bro in Santa Cruz when I left the Bay Area. I always though that model was such a pure, perfect design that any bells and whistles (spoilers, fancy rims, etc.) would have been gilding the lily.
Since I left the Bay I've been using public transportation exclusively, which is better still. With or without whistles, gas-burning cars are inherently evil. Stephen Jackson, by and large, is good. :-)
by Sleepy Freud on Jan 9, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Live with SJax
While Ginobili may have abused him a few times last night early, he did not do it late. SJax has played Carmelo, T-Mac, Dirk and Ginobili tough this year and without him the W's would be in huge trouble.
We need to recognize his faults and just take it because he adds so much to the team.
by philsmith75 on Jan 8, 2008 4:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jax was in a funk
He is such an emotional player; and, as was stated, you take the good with the bad. Fortunately for us it is mostly good.
You call me ancient, I say "oldguysrule"
by commish on Jan 8, 2008 4:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well...
by Fantasy Junkie on Jan 8, 2008 9:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
he is clutch but it is only
by Zig on Jan 8, 2008 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
people on here have some short
Sure he is a flawed player, sure it would be great if he was a third option rather than the second but that isn't the reality and Jax knows it and Nelson knows it. Nelson sets the offense for him to exploit match-ups and to position himself for the top of the key three. For the most part he is doing what he is being asked to do.
I do wish he cut out some of the the pull ups but hey I wish Baron would stop with that sometimes too.
Otherwise, he is doing what Nelson wants, he has been a low percentage shooter his whole career, the Warriors are winning for once in over a decade and I am just going to enjoy it.
by Zig on Jan 8, 2008 10:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jackson
No one says he has to jack up the second most shots when he's stone cold.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 8, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh.... yeah
And it seems that they might just start doing that.
Wait? So you mean it's a good idea to give the ball to the guy who leads the league in FG%? You think?
I still don't understand why Harrington keeps getting benched after going 2/2 from 3's in the first quarter...
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2008 10:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Nelson has a pretty solid
That said I agree that the transition 3's can be a bit much. Still for the most part I don't think Jax is doing anything that Nelson isn't asking of him
With AL don't you think Nelson is squeezing what he can out of him? He isn't a second option either
by Zig on Jan 9, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Harrington
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me for our second most efficient scorer to be getting fewer minutes when our offense is getting bogged down by perimeter, triggerhappy jumpshooting.
Al and Biedrins should be on the floor together, and the offense should focus on getting them the rock.
If David West and Tyson Chandler can be emphasized in New Orleans, then we should most certainly be trying to take advantage of our own tandem of quality bigs.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 9, 2008 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't disagree with this
Nelson though seems to think otherwise
That line-up tonight against Portland bothered me
by Zig on Jan 9, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
short memories?
I love Jax as a player, but his game is flawed. Criticism != disrespect
by Fantasy Junkie on Jan 8, 2008 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
his game is flawed and so is the team
by Zig on Jan 9, 2008 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
love jax
but he he got his ankles BROKE by manu..
I know everybody seen that
Bob Fitzgerald couldn't have said it better: "i'm sure stephen jackson wouldn't want to see that on a highlight reel"
is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?
by Spree4Threee on Jan 8, 2008 11:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ankle breaking
In basketball generally and in this day and age especially, it is impossible for a defender to completely and utterly shut down an offensive player.
Fact: you will get beat. The game is too fast, there's too much space, players are too good athletes, offensive game plans and executions are still too good.
Bruce Bowen's man WILL score. He WILL get free. He might get a highlight or two along the way.
Top defenders know, however, that losing a battle or two doesn't mean you can't win the war. You just pick urself up, keep chasing, keep banging, whatever it takes.
For the most part, Ginobili shot roughly what he normally shoots (44% season, 7/15 game), and adjusting for minutes and pace, his boards/assists were about on par. Jackson and the Warriors did lead Ginobili to commit 5 turnovers, more than his usual 2.7 in 28 minutes (he played 40 min in the game).
The quickest guys like TJ Ford or Parker will make you look stupid at some point or another, the key is to make them work as hard as possible that night and funnel them to wherever the scheme dictates (baseline or help middle, whatever).
Lately we have gone more to Baron on the quickest/best opposing scorer, and Jack on the best swingman scorer; this is where the need to get others involved offensively becomes even more apparent. Jack and Baron can be top tier defenders, but the energy necessary to do so is expended by their attempt to carry the offense.
Let Harrington, Biedrins, Ellis, Buike handle a greater scoring load, we'll be more efficient on offense, and Baron/Jack will have more intense on defense. Everyone wins.
(As an aside, I think Ginobili likes playing at the Warrior tempo, as its closer to the FIBA/Int'l game, so maybe he gets excited and makes mistakes he'd normally not make in the Spurs tempo. I'd kill to have him as our SG).
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 9, 2008 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
squat?
is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?
by Spree4Threee on Jan 9, 2008 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not really
did you find the Pietrus failed close out on Parker entertaining? How bout the Ellis one on an earlier play?
Jackson fell down, ok. Move along.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 9, 2008 1:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed...
by saintdee on Jan 9, 2008 2:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nope
by saintfloppy on Jan 9, 2008 3:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RKpnAkmE9o
then ya'll would be ranting about that as well
Who cares?
It doesn't need to be AND1.. What's Tim Hardaway famous for? his dimes and his "Killer-Crossover".. so you were never entertained by watching Hardaway break down his defenders? I guess not cuz its not streetball
Tim Hardaway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0HRPIu02Xo
is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?
by Spree4Threee on Jan 9, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if
Some of us think basketball is a deeper sport than that.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 9, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dude
I love the game as much as anyone else on this website..
Watching players get their ankles broke to me is similar to watchin players get dunked on..
Its all part of the fun of watchin basketball
is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?
by Spree4Threee on Jan 9, 2008 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yet
Which is fine, because you may derive pleasure out of whatever you please, as long as it is not so obscene as to harm the rest of society.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 9, 2008 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
i just said he got his ankles broke pretty badly.. which was also mentioned in the original diary
chill dude
is latrell sprewell gonna have to choke a b*tch?
by Spree4Threee on Jan 9, 2008 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
remember that dairy?
this dairy is equally rediculous. If Jackson didn't take so many bad shots we wouldn't be the team without any conscience. If we lose our identity as the team with the poorest shot selection who would we be? We'd sink into mediocrity like the Rockets.
by saintdee on Jan 9, 2008 12:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, though...
Jax and BD are the two best on the w's at creating their own offense. Neither needs screens or ball movement to get their shots off. Both are pretty adept at shooting with contact or hands in their faces. Since they dominate the ball, neither has a problem of standing around on offense. So they(Jax & BD) shouldn't HAVE to hoist up shots to get warmed up in the 1st quarter. They can get their shots anytime they want.
THey should use the 1st quarter to get guys like al, buke and dre in the mix. Get others involved so they don't get in the habit of standing around, saving their chucking for when the team really needs it.
I don't have a problem when jax has only 5-6 pts at the half. Its when he takes 8-10 shots and 4 TO's to get that 5-6 pts. The warriors would have been better off if he defered to others - acting as a decoy and concentrating on D - and saving his best for last.
Best duo since...
by Tim N Chris Burger on Jan 9, 2008 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and then
CJ Watson. From San Andreas to the Bay!
by tadams1080 on Jan 9, 2008 6:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Pietrus Again?
by philsmith75 on Jan 9, 2008 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oiajsdlkj
by dandydaniel on Jan 9, 2008 1:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
When I read "rhythm 3"
Can someone please explain what a "rhythm 3" is (beyond my current understanding). Please also explain why it's good to jack up three pointers instead of either trying to take the ball inside or swing the ball around for an OPEN 3. If you look at the players taking OPEN 3s (Buke, Pietrus, etc.) and the players taking "rhythm 3s" (the captains), you'll notice a MARKED DIFFERENCE IN PERCENTAGE.
Is it to try to encourage the speed of the game by generating long rebounds, etc? Is it used to draw the defense out, keep them on their toes, and open the lanes? Or is it really just a way to excuse our better players for taking bad shots?
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 9, 2008 10:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
new idea
The offense ran so much better with the ball in Al's hands in the center of the paint. That's the kind of spacing we need, not 4 guys on one end and Jack holding the rock for an eternity before hoisting a slow-as-molasses fadeaway J for the brick.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 9, 2008 11:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Revoking licenses
by mikej on Jan 12, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what trade
Jackson has improved his board work, we know he can pass when he put his mind to it.
Even against the Grizz, you saw how he can take a backseat to the others. Ellis and Harrington were effective, so Jack did not force his game.
He took Gay off the dribble a couple times and posted Lowry. His 3's were on ball rotation from others. Few of his shots were the result of facing up, holding the ball for 8 seconds, and hoisting a fadeaway. I can probably name only a couple "bad" shots from him (he had one fadeaway going laterally off the dribble and made it).
If he were to play within the offense more frequently, he'd be fine. Since his shot was falling, he did his job.
When his shot isn't falling- that's when I want to see him shoot even less and look for drive-and-kick opportunities more.
SB Nation Quality Control
AIM: Jetforze
by OptionZero on Jan 12, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No question
Memphis game: Nellie challenged Baron to distribute more and continued to work more high-screen situations into the half-court offense, presumably in order to diversify the looks we get. The shooters responded well, Jack had less to carry, no one had to revoke any licenses.
by mikej on Jan 13, 2008 12:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember One Thing
by Fall Back Baby on Jan 10, 2008 9:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs




















