With Monta on the way back, is now the time to make adjustments & another trade?
by hardcore on Nov 27, 2008 10:27 PM PST
Email
Print
Looking into your crystal ball, imagine Monta returns and is solid at PG – not a given but hopefully – we still have the logjam at SG/SF, how can we use that as a trading chip?
We will have to re-incorporate Monta into the team now, alongside or instead of Crawford, so now might be the time to set the table for a long march to the playoffs:
via ssil.uoregon.edu
At minimum, we could be looking at picking up one more player before the trading deadline if we are in shooting distance of the 8th spot.
Who is/are our most REALISTIC trade asset(s) right now?
Let’s make a few assumptions. First the fact that Rowell was on board (or leading the charge) trying to land Arenas, and the Dubs signed Maggette and extended Jackson means we are not going young, taking our lumps and rebuilding.
Gotta assume we are trying to make the playoffs in Don’s twilight years. While I thought Don and Baron’s futures were connected at the hip a year ago, it now appears that the coach is going to continue riding his current set of vets.
via imgs.sfgate.com
Second, our dealings are probably going to be limited by who we can’t deal – for the purposes of this argument, let’s assume Jackson, Maggette, Crawford as well as Monta, and Andris are off the table either because their contracts are not attractive (the former) or they are too valuable to move (the latter).
That would leave our bench, the brightest piece that could be part of a package is KAzibuike (who can be moved in a couple weeks) with either Randolph or Wright.
Would that be enough to land a serviceable PF ? Is it possible AR’s PT lately has been to showcase him the way Wright’s irregular starts last year seemed to be?
Add some draft picks, and mix. We’re looking for a serviceable PF in the $5-6m range. Don't get greedy, Howard is not coming - stay realistic. Now don't get me wrong, I know this is a tall order and I love KAz, and we are getting good play out of him, but we have so few chits to put on the table we have to explore the option (and no, there’s no one "missing" in the list below – he who shall remain nameless is nothing but a big "- O"). And I haven’t given up on Wright, or Randolph. But you have to give up something to get something. Even without all three of them, we still have some depth and youth:
PG – Monta, Crawford, CJW, MWilliams
SG/ SF - Jackson, Maggette, Crawford, Morrow
PF – (new) Turiaf, Kurz
C - AB, Turiaf
If "we believe" is going to mean anything, we need to have a reason to believe we can compete for the playoffs, otherwise maybe we should be pressing the tank button. And we won’t trade all three, so figure either Wright or Randolph is sitting in the PF slot rather than Turiaf.
Third, we need a team with an overage at PF and who need a SG, maybe looking for a second young player, and who’s contracts line up. Not an easy match, even in the best of times. Otherwise we need a third team, and three-team trades are rare.
Mikki Moore, Sacramento fits the bill on the surface. He’s the right type of player for the Nelson system, he’s got defensive ability, Sacramento needs guards now that their young buck is injured, and the salary works (no small part of this problem!).
via www.nba.com
Problem is, is Mikki Moore enough on an upgrade to give up KAz? He’s certainly not a big name PF who will change the nature of the franchise, and while he’s been a modestly productive pro wherever he’s gone he’s not been a game changer. In my opinion we’d be better to hang on to Wright and hope his ceiling is higher than MM.
Kings have another young PF in Jason Thompson (6'11) who is averaging nearly 11 ppg and 7 rpg so far this season.
via d.yimg.com
Could GS swing a deal for him? KAz + Wright doesn’t work salary wise, and the Kings would be foolish to deal away a potential stud PF – but you never know …
via 82games.com
Nets' Sean Williams and Yi have both been discussed previously, and are certainly at the right price. Williams would be available one would suspect, but like Moore, is he that much of an improvement over Wright (much less giving up KAz for)?
Yi is averaging about 10 ppg and 7 rpg – how many of us might pull the trigger on that deal?
via media.sacbee.com
The Wiz’s Andray Blatche might fit the bill, he certainly feasted the other night with 25 & 12. Would Washington let him go for KAz? Is he that much better than BWright?
via 82games.com
So where does that leave us? Are there other PF who meet the qualifications or
are we going to have to settle for another non-playoff, non-lottery season?
via sfist.com
What becomes of our dubs?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
51 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
id
rather you read more closely -
In my opinion we’d be better to hang on to Wright and hope his ceiling is higher than MM.
and after extending Jackson I’d rather give up Maggette too – BUT he’s very very difficult to trade with his contract
LOL
the camera angle on the stephen jackson and don nelson picture is just perfect XD
Everything rhymes with Belinelli.....Right?
I was just gonna post the same thing....
I guess Stack is all about taking one for the team…. Nellie certainly looks pleased with the position…..LMAO
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Nov 28, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
yo
i have to disagree with giving up buike. hes had a slow start from beyond the arc and still has managed to increase his scoring by 7 1/2 points. on that note, i really dont feel like we need to be making any haste trades yet.
if you check our lineup when monta comes back, yes were going to be stacked at the guard posistion but hat does not have to be a bad thing. personally i would love for crawford to come off the bench as our 6th man. this would leave our lineup and minutes like this…
PG monta (35 mpg)////crawford (20 mpg)
SG jackson(30 mpg)/////crawford (10 mpg at SG)
SF maggette(30 mpg)////buike (20 mpg)
PF turiaf ( 20 mpg)////randolph/wright duo (25 mpg)
C beidrins (35 mpg)//// turiaf (10 mpg)
this to me if my perfect 9 man rotation…. now the minutes probably dont all add up but close enough….
I really do feel that nelly is the problem here. im done with all of the mismatches and smalll lineups.. we have the neccessary pieces right now to compete and still develope wright and randolph. They are both going to be very good players and would hate to see either one go. but i do love turiaf starting at the PF posistion, he is best suited and best available and i think him and beidrins compliment each other perfect.
+1
i thought the rotation for the celtics game was pretty solid. maybe a bit more PT for wright and randolph though and we should be good. however, i think if a trade is offered for a PF that can rebound, i would do it in a heartbeat. if turiaf could rebound like hes blocks shots it would be such a big help.
stand pat?
are you ready to go the distance with that roster, what are the odds that roster gets us to the playoffs?
don’t want to give up KAz either, but we have few options to improve this roster enough soon enough for it to make a difference …
well
you also have to take in consideration that monta hasn’t played a game yet and another important thing to realize is that this is a completely new team. they have to learn how to play with each other and develop some chemistry. of course we have flaws like rebounding and defense…but hopefully that can come after some time. i think that a main reason why we have so many turn overs is because the player’s are still getting to know each other’s games. just give it some time and if we don’t make any drastic moves, they’ll mesh together well. we just shouldn’t rush into anything, like giving up buike, just because things aren’t working out right now.
wasn't this yours?
how about we start looking for a guy that REBOUNDS the ball and plays defense, instead of another player to add to the clutter of guards on this team
The odds of that roster getting us to the playoffs this season aren’t very good, but that’s because of the long absence of Monta, not the absence of another big man. If Monta can hang at the point, that may well be a playoff roster in ‘09-’10. Trading Azubuike for an iffy big strikes me as a lateral move at best, especially given Nellie’s preferences. The only available big man Nellie might get excited about is Yi, and frankly, Yi seems like he sucks.
It’s not a bad thought, but I’d rather not make a good young player on a small contract the focus of a deal. ‘Buike would serve as a great sweetener in getting someone else to eat a contract we’re sick of, but it’d be hard to get fair value for him on his own.
as of right now
its not all about making the playoffs man. lets say monta comes back and we do make the playoffs. OK im one of the most optimistic warriors fan around. but cmon we wouldnt make it past the first round. right now im just all about taking steps in the right direction. i love randolph wright monta beidrins and think they will be a force in 2-3 years with the help from jackson in the end of his career if we do the right thing and get randolph and wright ready now
if its not all about making the playoffs
then Wright and Randolph need to play a ton, we need to sit vets and lose games so the young’ns can be evaluated while we lose enough to get high enough in the draft – no equivocating, we tank and take our lumps for the brighter future you envision
simply put, old fans aren’t satisfied with taking baby steps anymore – been there done that, and no long march is made taking baby steps …
no middle road – we need to be bolder and win with the veterans or invest in the youth
You don’t tank fifteen games into an NBA season. You just don’t. Even the Thunder are going to try to win games for the first couple months. And if we’re all about helping the youth develop, we actually might want to consider playing Randolph a little less, as he risks learning some bad habits as it stands.
We should be trying to win basketball games. The best way to do that — not that Nellie’s quite found the right formula yet — is with a mix of young guys and vets. It’s not conceptually clean, but it’s the smartest way to go.
smartest way to go
nowhere – not to the playoffs, not to the lottery – except back to the midteens in the draft
ok, I get it – too early to tank, but is it too early to make a trade to give us a shot to make the playoffs? we’ve already made one (ya, still bitter about it too) why stop now?
a month from now, or two or three, we will be saying if we’d have made a move earlier to bolster the lineup we wouldn’t have missed the playoffs by only one or two games again …
Nelson WILL try to win every game, he’s programmed that way and his hard wiring will be fueled by a chance to catch Wilkens. All I’m saying is let’s not be afraid to take a bold step in that direction
I don’t disagree. If there’s a bold move that’d get us into the playoffs, even at the expense of one of our young guys, I’d be all for it. I just don’t think what you’ve proposed is the right move.
As I said below, I don’t think there is a good bold trade available to us, thanks to our recent dealings
Bold moves generally require star players… star players have big contracts. To add a big contract, you need to move some of your own. We had two that might be appetizing enough to pull something off, but we turned them into more Jack and Jamal Crawford. Something like Jack, Al and Wright for Kirilenko, for example, would’ve been a bold move. But big trades like that are now off the table.
You’re not going to change your team’s fortunes much with a small-money move. The only good players with small contracts are young guys, and teams are terrified of giving up on young players with potential. Teams are also terrified of trading big for small, which makes the idea of trading a swingman for a good big man just about impossible.
Also, the team has already made some bold moves, and not just in trades. The sudden Morrow explosion was a good example of a bold move — not many coaches would give an undrafted guy so many minutes like that. Morrow’s no star, but giving the guy 15 minutes a night would help us. Also, we haven’t yet seen the boldest move of all: the attempt to turn Monta into a point guard. Who knows how that one’ll go.
There’s no trade out there right now that would drastically improve our fortunes, no matter how much we all wish there was. And trading for trading’s sake opens us to the risk of downgrading our talent level. The team is intensely frustrating right now, but if we want to make the playoffs, simply trying to play our way out of this stretch is the best thing we can do.
There’s no trade out there right now that would drastically improve our fortunes
if you’re right we’re screwed
and I think there are still deals to be made to get us to the playoffs – not just wishful thinking, but we have to be willing to part with value to get value
and there’s still David Lee – Dubs are headed to the big apple and everyone in the media is focused on Marbury, and while a Lee deal may not have been on the minds of Knicks brass earlier, if they got two-for one it would give them huge relief while they’re short handed (because they can’t unload Marbury and don’t want to eat his contract, he sits while the whole team is banged-up) and future young players who fit the system – and we would get a 6’9 PF who scores double digits, rebounds, and shoots a high percentage. To get that type of player we have to give up something other than Marco and our garbage at the PG.
wait how do you have 55 minutes
at a point guard position
this is because
i said the minutes probably dont add up but you get the idea because you can slide ellis to sg but ya………
WOW.
I read (most) of this diary and you come to the conclusion that MIkki “Freakin” Moore is the answer?
You lost credibility right there.
Sacramento is retooling around their young guys, so they won’t be trading Jason Thompson right now for Wright, who arguably hasn’t proven much more than Thompson has. Plus he’s probably a fan favorite, so why shake up the roster and fan base by trading one of your young guys. It’s a neutral do-nothing move.
Nets traded Richard Jefferson to Milwaukee. Yi was the center piece of that deal. I doubt they’d trade him so soon, unless they are totally enamored with Wright and think he’s going to be a 20-10 player while Yi won’t. Again, it doesn’t seem like a great move on the Nets part. Because trading for the sake of trading never happens in the NBA.
Andray Blatche is widely inconsistent. Again no help to Nellie ball as he’s not the ideal PF Nellie likes.
I don’t think any of these players are likely to come over through a trade. If we are trading Brandan Wright, we need to get an established PF. I bet if Nellie could find a way to get Dirk out of Dallas he would.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
you didn't read
you reacted and stopped reading, and thinking …
you didn’t even read the comment posted above you that corrected your mistake …
Jason Thompson – to get him we’d have to give up more than Wright
the JR trade was a salary dump, Yi was not happy in Milw, he wasn’t the big fish the Nets were after – think 2010 if you’re trying to guess what the Nets are doing
You stopped thinking before i did.
If you’re saying No to a Mikki Moore trade, why even mention him? He hasn’t been in any trade rumors. And why would Sacramento trade within the Division anyway? Jason Thompson isn’t going to happen.
The Nets won’t trade Yi because then the RJ deal looks like a complete failure. They just can’t take that risk right now. It’s like us dumping Brandan right now. Warriors fans would be even more pissed off.
Honestly i don’t see any major Warriors trade occurring now or until the deadline. UNLESS, it involves Marcus Williams or Belinelli for another team’s disgruntled player.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
why even mention him?
while he fits certain criteria – position, contract, style – he also was dismissed for not being good enough and he was mentioned to put the other players in context of those parameters …
am guilty of some of things kenntoe but not thinking enough is usually not one of them
you still aren’t thinking about the JR trade the way the Nets are – they want to be open to landing some of the FA bonanza in 2010, that is their highest priority
I'm looking at the RJ trade like we look at the JR trade.
We all know it was a salary dump. But you’ll never hear the Nets or Warriors blatantly saying it. The only way they can refute these arguments from fans is by pointing out to the young players they received in the trade.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
I don’t think trading ‘Buike for an okayish PF does much for this team. It’s not a bad idea, but we’re not likely to find a PF that Nellie would be excited about playing, and especially not one that’s an upgrade on Wright and Turiaf. Defensive rebounding is an issue, yes, but those guys are solid bigs… Nellie just hasn’t used them enough yet.
If Monta really can stick at the point, things brighten for us considerably, and the roster starts to make a lot of sense as is. There’d be no reason not to trade a swingman for something else, just because we have a glut and it’s not smart to spend so much on 2s and 3s, but we wouldn’t have a compelling need anywhere.
I’d be willing to bet that Maggette spends less than half of his contract in a Warriors uniform. I like Maggette — I think he’s a good and underrated player, and I think that signing made sense at the time, even at the slightly inflated price. But with the addition of Crawford, the extension of Jack, the continued good play of Buike, and flashes from younger guys like Wright and Randolph (and even Morrow), Maggette is a piece that no longer seems hugely necessary. I think trading him would be difficult, and I certainly wouldn’t expect it to happen this season, but I think we’ll move him some time in the next two years. We outbid ourselves for him, but we still signed him at roughly market price… some team will take an interest in that at some point.
yeah um
if we give up one of our super talented youngsters plus a pick, plus a rotation player, I am pretty sure it would not be wise to only receive one of the above mentioned scrubs.
also
are these guys much better (if at all) than turiaf?? come on none of these guys are the missing piece.
the missing piece
to playoffs or a ring?
we are talking about playoffs, a ticket to the dance where upsets happen, excitement builds, and there’s something to care about – unless you think this roster is going to get that done?
It may not, but how does a roster where you sub Mikki Moore in for Azubuike get that done?
I mean, this is Nellieball. We are not rebounding any worse than we did last year… we’re actually rebounding slightly better. The three biggest statistical differences between last year and this year? Our passing is worse, we’re getting fewer steals, and we can’t make a three to save our lives. None of the big guys you’re talking about would address any of those issues.
You know who’d do a better job of addressing them? Monta Ellis. He’s an efficient passer (maybe not a true point, but still a good passer), and he wreaks havoc in opponents’ passing lanes. He wouldn’t help Jackson, Maggette and Azubuike make more of their threes, but neither would a big man… we just have to hope those three start finding their touches again.
A playoff push is all well and good. Hell, I’d love to see us sneak into the playoffs. But the sort of trade you’re proposing wouldn’t help us get there.
I'm talking about playoffs
and Andre “I only play good against the warriors” Blatche will not make us a playoff team. Neither will Mikki moor or any of the “solid” players above mentioned.
how does a roster where you sub Mikki Moore in for Azubuike get that done?
In my opinion we’d be better to hang on to Wright and hope his ceiling is higher than MM.
really difficult to have any meaningful discussion when people won’t read what each other write
I like your not about the three stats, and Monta is even a good rebounding guard – would only disagree that a GOOD low post player DOES make shooters better (because defense has to double, rotate, etc. which leaves some one open) and I’d love to see Morrow getting some open looks off the other team doubling down …
playoffs, or lottery – one or the other is what we need imo
I read what you wrote. My point is that even Azubuike for Moore, with no Wright or Randolph involved, is a bad trade for us.
It’s true that a good low post player can make shooters better. Problems are,
1) we’re not gonna land a good low post player in a medium-sized trade, and
2) Jackson and Maggette have been whiffing on wide-open looks.
There’s reason for optimism here. Maggette hit a couple threes against Boston, and if history’s any indication, Jack’s stroke will improve once his minutes return to normal (and with the arrival of Crawford, I think they finally will). And like you, I’d like to see Morrow given a couple open shots every game; there’s gotta be a happy medium between giving the guy 36 minutes a night and flat-out benching him.
playoffs, or lottery – one or the other is what we need imo
Good news — we’re guaranteed one or the other!
Joking aside, I know what you mean… it’s no fun to root for a team in that murky 35-win area. But I don’t think we’re nearly bad enough to make a play for the lottery, and I don’t think there are many possible trades right now that’d propel us closer to the playoffs. If we’re gonna make the postseason, it’ll be because the guys on the current roster figure it out. The only possible savior on the horizon is Monta.
My point is
trading for Moore is NOT what I am proposing!
Problem is, is Mikki Moore enough on an upgrade to give up KAz? He’s certainly not a big name PF who will change the nature of the franchise, and while he’s been a modestly productive pro wherever he’s gone he’s not been a game changer. In my opinion we’d be better to hang on to Wright and hope his ceiling is higher than MM..
Well, it was a little hard to tell what you were saying without the bold parts, especially considering you inserted an ENORMOUS picture of Mikki Moore into your post.
The more general point is that none of the guys you mentioned are remotely as valuable, now or in the future, as Azubuike and Wright or Randolph. Hell, I’m not sure I’d trade Wright for any of those guys straight up… his upside is as high as Thompson or Blatche’s, higher than any of the others (unless you want to play the Yi lottery, which I basically don’t at this point).
It’s true that we could get by without Azubuike, but that doesn’t mean we necessarily have to move him. We’re not a good enough team to start downgrading our talent level.
+1
That enormous pick of Predator got me sucked in.
I agree as well that the trades you suggest aren’t big enough to make any sort of difference this year. Anything short of a Dirk, Boozer or Amare coming back to us for example won’t be enough.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
you still aren't reading
Don’t get greedy, Howard is not coming – stay realistic.
that one was even in bold for anyone who relys on such visual clues for comprehension
ok first of all
no no and no. and where’s the option for No, you’re retarded. kaz should be considered untouchable because he is a TRUE bench stud.
who's untouchable?
I don’t mind the retarded claim, just back it up – who’s untouchable on a non-playoff team? A backup SG? If KAz is untouchable who do you suggest we use? Is it that you one of the geniuses who wants to trade CJ, Marco, Marcus for Deron Williams? Or you are in the stand pat and cry in your beer group?
who is BR
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
Montay at point?
That’s hilarious ! After watching crawford drop pierce on the floor I doubt anyone still thinks Montay should play point ? Get scooter back to 2 guard where he belongs and has been productive. Order crawford to facilitate and not shoot unless hell freezes over and we’ll be in business. How to get a power forward? Maybe trade belinili, wright and ? Kabuki is too cheap to trade, he’s a better value than anyone else we can get for that price. I’d also explore trading magette for the right big guy. Keep rudolf and send him to D-school for a while till he learns not to try to play point guard, maybe have a coach on the sidelines shoot him in the ass with a bb gun every time he tries to get fancy, and give him an ice cream cone everytime he blocks or defends. I doubt we should do any trade this season, probably best to just play it out and see what our guys got? develop More-O, Rudolf, etc. then we’ll know more and can trade before next season.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 28, 2008 9:35 AM PST reply actions
pretty good post man
good work
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
why does everyone
wanna dump azubuike all of a sudden?!!?! dump maggette instead
dump vs deal, there's a big difference
Now don’t get me wrong, I know this is a tall order and I love KAz, and we are getting good play out of him, but we have so few chits to put on the table we have to explore the option
KAz is worth something in a deal to make the team better
after watching this game today
we need to trade maggette. he doesnt have the fire to play nellie ball.
i think
we should trade mags for a decent pf…id go for yi!!!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
"UNSTOPPABLE BABY!"
Golden State Warriors rookie Marc Jackson to the Mavericks' bench, after hitting a lay-up during a 29-point loss (2000)
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Most Commented
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- LeBron James won’t even give Lance Stephenson half a bar
- Let’s all hate the Oklahoma City Thunder shirts that take a needless shot at the team’s move from Seattle (PHOTO)
- The Golden State Warriors will likely move to San Francisco in 2017
- Chris Paul goes off the top of the backboard for one last Clipper highlight before losing to Spurs (VIDEO)
- Behind the Box Score, where the Heat grabbed control behind LeBron James’ amazing afternoon
