Salvage the Season - Bring Maggs off the Bench
by terryteagle on Nov 29, 2008 8:10 PM PST
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PrintWatching the game against the Knicks tonight, it is now obvious that our defense is horrible. We need much more help defense because guys are struggling with the pick and roll and staying in front of their man. Maggs is not a good individual defender and not a good help defender. We have to change our starting line to:
1. Crawford (or CJ depending on the field goal percentage)
2. Jackson
3. Wright
4. Turiaf
5. Beans
This is the way to start the game then make changes accordingly. Maggs can be a great sixth man but will have to swallow his pride. Trust me, we will still score points but at least we will be able to grab boards and defend the interior.
I STILL BELIEVE!
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I couldn't
agree with you more on this one. I mean 22 assist from Chris Who? Duhon? No D whatsoever in tonights game. But then again, we’ve never really played good D, its just gone from bad to worse. I really do wish this would happen but with Nellie around, i doubt it will ever become a reality.
Completely Agree
Love the trio of Wright + Turiaf + Biedrins
Too much.
"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald
by WarriorForLife on Nov 30, 2008 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
I think your general feeling is right — we need to get bigger. But benching Maggs would be cutting off our nose to spite our face. He’s a good player, and he is the guy we should be starting at the 3.
Is Maggette a good defender? No. But he’s as good of a defender as most of the guys on our team… he’s about as good as Azubuike, frankly a better defender than Crawford, and not much worse than Jack, who’s been phoning it in a bit defensively. Maggette’s gotten lit up lately, but that’s because he’s been forced to play out of position, not because he’s so uniquely horrible on defense.
I’m all for seeing some of a Biedrins/Turiaf/Wright combo… I think that could be pretty fun. But I don’t think the solution for this team’s ills is to bench Corey Maggette. He’s one of our better players.
There’s actually an argument that this would be our best starting lineup right now…
PG – C.J. Watson
SG – Corey Maggette
SF – Brandan Wright
PF – Ronny Turiaf
C – Andris Biedrins
Maggette has played a lot of 2 in his career, and right now he’d be an absolute nightmare for opposing shooting guards. This team would really smack people around, and with Jack, Crawford, ‘Buike and Morrow, we’d have a mountain of scoring coming off the bench.
I’m not saying we should actually go to war with this lineup… that’d be putting a helluva lot of faith in a few good weeks by Watson, and Turiaf fouls too much to play starter’s minutes. But these are the five guys who’ve played the best for us so far, and under a different coach, they’d make for a pretty interesting look here and there.
nah, Maggette's one of the worst defender's on the team.
why? b/c he only cares about his offense.
he’s a zero in help defense. every time david lee would get a dunk, Turiaf/Biedrins/Wright would look at Maggette like wtf? you’re supposed to rotate over.
he doesn’t concentrate at all. you can tell b/c he gets back doored the most (kaz is 2nd).
unlike guys like Morrow & Crawford that can’t fight through even the softest screens in the world (and not calling out the correct S-O-S), Maggette doesn’t even try. he just stops before the screen. he doesn’t even hide it.
the only time he stays in front of his man is when it’s a PF.
since i’m stuck with the oppositions broadcast most nights, all i hear is them making fun of Corey’s defense. i get why Dunleavy calls him out on it 24/7… guy is a defensive cancer b/c he doesn’t put any effort into anything except getting his 20 points. if your team leaders don’t put the effort in, the rest of the team is soon to follow suit. Maggette can’t stay in front of Al, how’s he going to stay in front of a 3? or a 2? his only defensive game came against a skinny big in Aldridge… and to be honest, it was just the refs calling flops.
by the evil monkey on Nov 29, 2008 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
Well, Biedrins was pretty awful on D tonight himself… that wasn’t simply a failure on Maggette’s part, especially since he was so outsized. But yeah, he was pretty bad tonight.
Still, if we’re gonna relegate a no-D guy to the bench, I’d rather it be Crawford than Maggette. Maggette rebounds far better and scores more efficiently, and I’d honestly take him over Crawford defensively, your good points notwithstanding. I’d rather see Maggette in the lineup, with two big shot-blockers who can help bail out his defensive miscues. When Maggette’s on form, he really helps us by getting us to the penalty earlier in quarters. Some of our few wins this year have come that way.
There really isn’t a good defensive lineup we can put on the floor. Given that, I think we might as well put our best offensive unit out there and hope the big guys swat enough shots to keep things interesting. I still think our best starting five includes Maggette.
i’m just afraid Maggette’s quit on this team (defensively) like he does every season and that’s having a carry over effect to the other guy’s on the team. you can see the exasperation on the player who did help when he doesn’t help them in turn by rotating correctly. obviously there are front office and locker room politics in a benching, but i’d rather see a message sent to the team that defense will get you minutes.
anyway, are we really on TNT the next 2 games?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/schedule?team=gsw
i hope not.. might be embarrassing. i’m guessing even fringe NBA players are thinking they have a chance at a career night against the dubs. that confidence can’t be a good thing for the warriors to be up against.
by the evil monkey on Nov 30, 2008 12:58 AM PST up reply actions
That IS the best lineup right now
If you started players by their actual values so far this season.
But when has Nellie played players based on their value?
He plays those he thinks will play “his system.”
You know, the “system” that has gone to the finals so many times.
by formerlythecity on Nov 30, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
??
1. Crawford (or CJ depending on the field goal percentage)
2. Jackson
3. Wright
4. Turiaf
5. Beans
That only leaves Jax and crawford to score? Wright can’t shoot well enough to play the 3 spot. Maybe switch out wright for Hendrix and it could work?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 29, 2008 8:36 PM PST reply actions
bob and jim always talk about jack as being one of our premiere defenseman and arguably so sometimes. much of the time he lolligags and cherry picks in the backcourt, or stands around yappin to a ref for a foul, he can’t rewind time and change the call so it really does nothing except maybe get you a T. we’ve seen games this season where all the starters end up in double digits. no doubt we can score, it’s just usually not very pretty or consistent.
i really wanna see goose and ronny play together more, their games mesh well, a big body and a long body. i think CJ is doing a good job running the show at PG. he’s pretty dang knowledgeable, jumping in passing lanes, etc. i’d like to see more of our guys hustle and crash the boards: players who i see doing this more frequently than others are buike, morrow, turiaf and randolph
i dont know about if jack will be on the sidelines against the heat but assuming he is; here’s who i’d like to see start:
cj- scores, passes, handles
buike- scores with some sense of frequency, better handler than most, goes for rebounds and follows his shots
wright- throw some lobs for the kid, his arms are giant for cryin out loud
turiaf- gets our team going, a catalyst so to speak. why not start the game that way than wait to bring him in later
goose- needs to hop back on that double double train quick
6th man- maggs- let him get his 20 points but, i’d expect to see 5 dimes with that too
The Warriors will Score
We know this – I totally disagree with Maggs being as good a defender as other players on the team. His lateral defense stinks – but if you bring him off the bench (like Sarunas back in the day) and find a good matchup during the game he can score at will.
Beans can score, Jackson can Score, Crawford or CJ can score. Also, Wright off of specific plays can score. Remember, this is a starting lineup. Make changes AFTER YOU ARE SECURING REBOUNDS AND PLAYING DEFENSE!
now too bad
we aren’t the coaches on this team who would make this change. nelson unfortunately won’t change any of this and will probably try to get even smaller
by MeTaLLiCs0naTaS on Nov 29, 2008 8:47 PM PST reply actions
as odd a move it would be...
why not try it?
Not like we have anything to lose
http://goldenarrival.blogspot.com
addressing the problem: package Ellis for DWade
our main problem is not having a penetrating PG. nellie’s system is useless without a PG that can draw the defense in, ala nash and BD. just look how effective duhon and lee were tonite, and they’re not even top tier players. everyone is trying to mix our line looking for something that will click but without a true penetrating PG we are lottery bound. even with ellis back tommorrow there will be no change to the win column, we should look to use ellis/maggs as trade bait for Dwade, imagine finally seeing morrow and beli getting a decent kickout, AB’s FG% would be sky high. Forget waiting for 2010 summer, the warriors need a trade for a serious PG NOW.
i like it
but i like this better
cj
jackson
randolph
turiaf
beans
look at that D all the way down the line.. CJ is a very good defender very deceptive with his quick hands…. jackson is a known lock down defender..randolph plays with intensity every play… turiaf is turiaf we all know what he brins… and same with beans…
then we still have
crawford
maggs
buike
wright
beans/turiaf
-1
This lineup doesn’t score and it doesn’t help our defensive woes enough. CJ has quick hands but cannot guard 1’s in the league. As much as I love JAX, his defense isn’t where it use to be so he is not considered a lock down defender. Randolph plays with intensity but blows defensive assignments like I have never seen before (Yes I know he is still a Rookie).
Crawford, Maggs, Jax, Turiaf/Wright & Beans has a better chance of playing decent D and brings some inside toughness with Turiaf. Having Wright as the starting 4 would be good because he can get some good minutes in and Turiaf could be the first big man off the bench to play either the 4 or 5. But honestly, I think Nelly is going to keep on switching the lineup until Monta gets back and will shuffle the cards by who is the hottest/ who can I use right now method.
What Nelly should do keep a same starting 5 in so that they can build some chemistry. The good teams in the league do not shuffle the lineup once every two games. Everybody (The good teams players) knows there role and the all of the Warriors players need to know exactly what there role is on the team and stick to that specific role instead of trying to do a little bit of everything and not being successful.
"Get Er Dun!"
wouldn't mind seeing oGw's lineup even though you're right about it not helping our d enough.
i don’t know the politics in the locker room and front office, but i’d like to see Nellie start & play his best defensive players just to send a message. i don’t care if the games are 80-90 or whatever. guaranteed, everyone who sees the dubs on the schedule thinks they’re having a career night. team’s are just waltzing into the paint avging 60-70 points in the paint. don’t know what it was tonight, but the Knicks broadcasters were saying they had 52 points in the paint at the half…
maybe Kelenna instead of Jack until Jack gets back to putting some effort back into his defense. no, he never was a lock down defender, but up until game #14 of this season, he at least used to try – now he’s picked up the Maggette effect.
by the evil monkey on Nov 29, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
you're on to something
the other thing would be to trade maggette for a six pack and 2 tickets to a lakers celtics game. then give maggette the tickets so he can go see WHAT DEFENSE LOOKS LIKE.
i would love to see randolph start
develops him and brings us intensity and length at the same time.
too bad nelson’s the coach :(
by MeTaLLiCs0naTaS on Nov 29, 2008 9:15 PM PST reply actions
That is an awesome idea
Small ball is just not working for us right now.
technically, this is what Dunleavy Sr tried to do...
i’m sure you all know, but it didn’t go over too well…
by the evil monkey on Nov 29, 2008 9:45 PM PST reply actions
Very sad but...
look at what Nelson said after the game: http://ken-berger.blogs.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/11979249
F**K REFS
this was before the game.
2nd paragraph, 1st line, after the quote portion.
by the evil monkey on Nov 29, 2008 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
i'd rather have
1.crawford
2.jackson
3.maggette
4.wright
5.biedrins
turiaf is too slow to guard 3’s and he gets in foul trouble too easily. once monta comes back
1.ellis
2.jackson
3.maggette
4.wright
5.biedrins
crawford as the 6th man
i like
the idea of turiaf and biedrins on the court at the same time. but they cant start and play a lot of minutes together right now, because neither would have a backup
randolph and turiaf
just play with so much intensity and always have a good impact on our defense whenever they come in
by MeTaLLiCs0naTaS on Nov 30, 2008 11:14 AM PST reply actions
Absolutely a combo of both… this roster, especially without Monta, doesn’t make a lot of sense. There’s not much defensive talent on the roster, and there are a few too many players who are inefficient on offense. Nobody could wring 50 wins out of this Monta-less team, and maybe not even 45… no coach would’ve gotten us past Boston and Cleveland.
But the way we play is killing us. Too little emphasis on defense, too much offensive freedom for players who don’t deserve it, and most of all, unnecessarily small lineups that keep some of our better players off the floor. Almost everybody in the rotation can be a real asset if used properly… very few of them are.
There is no reason why this team has to be doing this badly. Nellie is doing us a tremendous disservice so far.
I know maggette helps us get to the free throw line alot, But he is a curse and makes the warriors play bad
The signing of maggette is horrible, they have to trade him asap for a LOW Stats/ MORE active player that is a TEAM PLAYER.
I DID NOT WRITE THIS POST TO ASSERT THAT MAGGS SHOULD BE TRADED
He justs needs to be utilized properly. He CAN stabilize your offense if it is stagnant with this drives to the basket but he is not a facilitator and he is not an initator for others’ offense. If he has to start, then Jackson needs to go to the bench and I do not see that happening. The team is not good enough offensively to play a small at the 3, they need defense and rebounding out of that position.
I really don’t care if the three is Wright or Randolph but think Wright provides better defense and rebounding. Neither is ready to be a 4 because they are simply too thin to hold their position.
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