Report: Iverson to Detroit for Billups and McDyess
by bayareaballa on Nov 3, 2008 9:13 AM PST
85 comments
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3679931
I am kind of in shock of this trade. I don't think it works particularly well for either team, maybe just a way to get Iverson out of Denver. It'll be interesting to see if this shakes up anything for either squad, hopefully it will make Denver worse! Just wanted to get your opinions on if you think the trade was good for either team
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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If someone like Billups was available
i wonder if (and hope) the Dubs made a run at him…..but then Rowell and Cohan probably vetoed it, because they enjoy a losing culture and have no plans to make us into a playoff contender.
by GoldenStateDubtronic on Nov 3, 2008 10:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Do we have an Iverson to give up? What give up Maonta for Iverson? Get outta here!
by smearthebeard on Nov 3, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d give up “Maonta” for Iverson in a flash, but never Monta for Iverson.
Pac Bell, SBC, AT&T, 2010=???
by jt_7241 on Nov 3, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that was...
…supposedly one of the rumors, that we would trade for Chauncy. he would have solved our PG problem and that would have allowed wright and randolph to get more playing time. Detroit most likely did not want harrington, and i can’t see too many teams that would want him. DOES ANYBODY KNOW where the warriors are at with the trade talks for Harrington? What team would want him
by Young Moolah on Nov 3, 2008 10:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
yea fustrating…warriors always seem to be the little wimpy kid who doesnt do shizit
by war i are. on Nov 3, 2008 10:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Does your memory only go back 365 days?
Were the Dubs that “wimpy kid who doesnt do shiznit” when they made that 8 player trade not too long ago? Change does not automatically equate to “good.” Patience, brother – this team will make a trade when the time is right.
by biggiep on Nov 3, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yea...
harrington was the best thing that ever happened to us
by war i are. on Nov 3, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
were you singing a different tune
when we unloaded Murphy and Dunleavy for Al & Jax?
c’mon you guys have to admit that was a step in the right direction
even Nelson can’t make chicken salad out’a chick’nshit
by hardcore on Nov 3, 2008 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
umm,
you might as well say that josh powell was the best thing that ever happened to us.
seriously, forget to mention how we got stephen jackson and went on that crazy run to make the playoffs and win 48 games the following season. dunleavy and murphy would never be able to do that for us.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Nov 3, 2008 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is another good move by Dumars
Chauncey was replaceable with Stuckey. Dice was expendable due to Max, and Amir. I guess Denver knew they weren’t going to extend A.I. And they get back some of what they lost with Camby in McDyess.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Nov 3, 2008 10:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think...
This puts the Warriors back into the playoffs! Woooo! 8th seed!
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Nov 3, 2008 10:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Homer Alert!
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Nov 3, 2008 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fire Sale?
Now we should trade Harrington for Melo. And maybe throw in Marco.
by Fantasy Junkie on Nov 3, 2008 10:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Denver gets better
to me, Karl is a great coach and Billups a great player, I am sure the offense starting with Billups and Melo would be more efficient. Also allows Kleiza to get the ball a little bit more. I love this trade for Denver.
by greala on Nov 3, 2008 10:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Karl is a great coach
who couldn’t get a luxury-tax team past the 1st round, who couldn’t go farther with a star-studded team of K-Mart, Melo, AI, and Camby, and who has chemistry issues with many of his players. Great coach.
by biggiep on Nov 3, 2008 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well in fairness, he did alright w/ GP & Kemp
though i wouldn’t call him a great coach either, AI is overrated. he’s great for a defensive team with no scorers, but the more scorers you have the less useful he becomes.
and i’d also venture to say that k-mart isn’t a star and camby is a bit of a stretch as well. he’s a great help defender, but star?
by the evil monkey on Nov 3, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thank you god
It was hard seeing my boi AI playing on the same team as hit and run melo.
by warriorfan4life on Nov 3, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please
Karl is one of the top five to six coaches in the league behind the top couple of Jackson and Papavich. He just ran up against Spurs and Lakers a couple of times. And he got K-Mart, Camby, and Iverson all on the downsides of their career, it’d be much difference if he got them at their peaks.
I’d say this right now on GSOM, Warriors would have made the playoffs had Karl been the coach last year.
by greala on Nov 3, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahahaha
I needed a good laugh, thanks.
by pbra17 on Nov 3, 2008 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Warriors last year
That team was CRAZY good last year, a lot of people forget that. It’s just that their 0-6 start killed them in the Western Conference. If the season started after Stephen Jackson’s suspension, we would have seen the Warriors at the number seed in the Western Conference for most of the season. That’s how BIG of a difference 6 losses can make in the West. The Warriors and the Celtics had the best records in the league since that 1-6 start.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Nov 3, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
edit...
we would have seen the Warriors at the NUMBER ONE SEED in the Western Conference for most of the season.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Nov 3, 2008 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ummmm
I think every team would be better if they got all of their players when they were at their peak. If the Warriors had all of their players at their peak, they would be a championship team.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The point of the post
was that Kenyon Martin, AI, and Camby are good players, but not what they once were, so that taking them playoffs and winning 49 games shouldn’t be a slight on Karl’s ability. I think he does a great job, Denver wasn’t that bad on D either. 10th in the league in points per 100 possessions.
by greala on Nov 3, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Celtics
Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce are all great player, but not what they once were. They still won the championship.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying that Karl
should have won a championship with Camby, Melo, Kenyon, and AI?
by greala on Nov 3, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that,
but he had a much better team than you are giving him credit for. He just couldn’t make it work. He should have at least been able to make it to the 6th or 7th seed and been able to make it to the 2nd round.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya a slowwwwww old point guard who showed his age last year is going to put Denver over the top?
by smearthebeard on Nov 3, 2008 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Over the top
no but I am not backing away from it, I think this makes Denver an improved team this year and guarantees them a playoff spot.
by greala on Nov 3, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
quick question
do you honestly think that playing jr smith more and having a real point guard on the team is bad for them? jr smith is definitely capable of being a starter in the nba, whereas anthony carter is a mediocre backup point. i love ai, but on that team, he would just alternate running iso plays with melo. the lineup didn’t make sense. this one does. they got MUCH better.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Nov 3, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this deal is done. so does this mean AI will be playing in today’s game?
by pamboat on Nov 3, 2008 11:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm A Warrior Fan
But Now I Love The Pistons. AI Is My Favorite Player And I Hope That Now He Can Get A Ring In By Only Having To Get Pass Boston
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 3, 2008 11:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
...Now I Love The Pistons
Dude, that line sounds like the 50 new Celtic Fans who used to be Warrior Fans at my work last season!
by Tony.psd on Nov 3, 2008 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A couple weeks ago
My friend asked me if i’m a Clippers fan now that Baron is playing for them. I laughed.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Nov 3, 2008 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
Please do not capitalize the first letter of every word. It makes sentences difficult to read.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL... write stuff out like Mac dre...
yaDAdaMEan?!?
by Tony.psd on Nov 3, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm more jealous of other team's front office management and ownership than of their team.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Nov 3, 2008 12:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
uh
This trade is irrelevant on both sides.
Is Detroit gonna win the title? No way.
Is Denver going to MAKE the playoffs? LOL.
This is almost as worthless as reporting Acie Law for Devean George!! But with bigger names…
In all seriousness the fast break has officialy died under George Karl, either that or the Cardio Dept. at Nuggets Headquarters just invented a way to keep large men sprinting without dropping dead.
Billups will NOT bring defense. There were guys by the name of Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace who did that for him ( funny isnt it ).
Iverson will KILL Rip’s catch and shoot game because… he doesn’t pass. He doesn’t create shots for other people, and Tayshaun Price will not blossom like Joe wants him to, or the Piston’s fans expect him to, because Iverson is like RIga Mortis. ONce its settled in, its final.
However, I did take a positive from this! NO MORE BILLUPS TO THE WARRIORS rumors. OH man, everytime I read that junk I just crept in my closet and hugged my Rick Barry Championship jersey and drank some Thunder Coolade ( yeah he might be gone, but not forgotten OKC! )
So yeah, thanks Joe Dumars, thanks (Whoever the GM is from the NUggets who clearly sucks at his job ).
I also wonder though, with a move like this, does Mullin get a raise at Warriors headquarters? I mean he can clearly use this as leverage whenever someone says “MULLY WTF DID YOU DO?….”
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 1:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Another outlandish leap...
Chauncey/Dice for A.I. = Acie Law IV for Devean George.
LOL. Your posts keep getting better and better. I honestly question if you ever actually, actually seen any of these players play this game and not on an XBOX or PS3.
Detroit’s offense does not revolve around one dominant ball handler. Chauncey never averaged huge assist totals while he was there, and that’s because they have a lot of competent ball handlers at the 1-3 positions.
Iverson does dominate the ball a lot. But he wants to win first, and i think they can find someway for Iverson to get his shots within the flow of the offense. They now have a clear #1 guy to go to in crunch time.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Nov 3, 2008 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
You’re just dying to prove me wrong, but once again you come at me with comments that are null and void. Grab a notebook and a pen sir.
So… ever heard a metaphor? Cool!!! THats what that comment was. I said it had the same relevance on the Championship outcome like an Acie Law/Devean George trade. I expect the Pistons to get worse with A.I.
Oh I’m wrong? Just ask the Nuggets who couldnt win consistently. How about the Sixers with a bunch of rookies who got way better when he left, and attracted a Free Agent like Elton Brand.
As I educated Saints down a few posts, A.I. is NOT a distributor. He does not run an offense for others, he runs an offense…………………… for himself. Larry Brown/George Karl couldnt crack this guy…. excuse me, Michael ‘LOL’ Curry is going to? Hilarious.
Iverson wants to win? Well duh, who doesnt. Is Iverson willing to sacrifice? The answer is …..NO. what did he give up, 5 shots a game? He averaged 25 shots with philly and 19 with Denver. Take a guess at which point guard in the league shoots the most? Ding Ding Allen Iverson!!
Denver needed him to be a distributor, not a scorer. Carmelo can score, they needed others involved, after 1.5 seasons it was obvious which is why they took in Chauncey (anybody else would take in A.I. and give up 21 million worth of contracts? ) McDyess is rumored to not even show up to Denver.
Chauncey Billups has hit more crunch time shots then Allen Iverson fyi, oh and he has also won a Finals MVP.
Obviously Iverson has more accolades, but Chauncey has accomplished more from a “winning” standpoint.
Just know this, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince were undesirable up untill they played with Billups.
I think Denver got the better end of the deal, I just dont think it fits their team, but if I had A.I. on my team, I’d wanna pass off the ‘hot potato’ as well.
Dont believe me? Thats fine. But if you’re gonna come at me with Xbox jokes, check the record son, ’cause you just got worked.
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, lets do one more thing.
Billups is on the decline. He has three years left on his contract, and he is making a nice amount of money for those three years. AI is in his last year and is still in his prime. Detroit definitely got the better part of the deal.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And also
don’t say that you educated me when your post basically said nothing. I’ll educate you any day of the week. SON!
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And when I said "Ok, lets do one more thing"
I was going to do something, but I decided against it and I forgot to change the name of the post.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
AI is a scorer. He has always been. But that has been by force. When he was playing for the Sixers when they went to the finals, who were the starters? Who was scoring for them? Mutumbo? Eric Snow? He couldn’t give it to anybody else who could score.
And AI was a distributor for Denver. He average more than 7 a game and that goes with everyone who wasn’t making shots last year. I can tell you many games I watched when AI dished the rock & Kleiza, Melo, JR, would miss open shots. So he went back to what he knew with scoring. Watching the playoffs nobody was scoring for them. He did his job but he can’t make other peoples shots go in.
In going to Detroit, He has reliable shooters who can shoot the ball and he doesn’t have to worry about being the leading scorer. He won’t big Mr. Big Shot because he drives the ball in and gets to the line but I mean he can. Do we not foget the OT shot to win the Sixers only game in the Finals? He’s made many clutch shots to win games and if needed he can but don’t make it seem as if it is meaningless.
AI, Rip, Tayshaun, Rasheed & Look Good To Battle Against Rondo, Allen, Pierce, & KG.
The Pistons have more advantages and Chauncey couldn’t keep up with Rondo, that won’t be a problem with AI. Allen can’t keep running with his frail knees against Rip. Pierce & Tayshaun Off Set & the only one I can def give to The Celtics are KG>Wallace Even though Wallace can step out and shoot the three. Plus Stuckey Maxiell & Johnson off the bench is better than Big Baby, Eddie House, and Powe…..
The Pistons can be better for now and the future and AI can be the difference maker without a doubt.
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 3, 2008 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not bro
Its not forced, it was forced by him. He had Larry Hughes, he had Jerry Stackhouse, they all left, because they all couldnt play with him. He also had Keith Van Horn ( ok I know clown now, but at the time he was ballin’ ).
Read my thing about the assist to pass guy. Andre Miller with this team averaged 9 – 11 assists playing like 7 less minutes per game.
So with that said, it will be a splash. People in Detroit will be excited, but they won’t go anywhere.
I think the Hawks would wax Detroit at this point. With A.I.? I know they will. Are the Hawks even the 3rd best team in the east right now?
Ruh-Roh
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Andre Miller
No beef with him. I really like him as a player, but he has Iguodala and now Brand to do scoring. AI didn’t.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hold on
No no, not saying anything about what A.I. had im saying… with the same crew Melo ( MUCH YOUNGER ) Camby, Nene, Earl Boykins, Kenyon etc.. he avg 8.2 and 9.1.
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 5:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
compare that to billups star studded crew
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But
Miller had time on the floor with those people. Melo was out for time with suspension, Kenyon was hurt, Camby isn’t the offensive guide, and you wouldn’t dare catch a back court of Boykins & Miller at the same time. The guards would of had a field night!
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 3, 2008 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
AI came into the league as a SG and he is a SG in a PG’s body. Larry Hughes only averaged 10 points before he was shipped out to the Bay & Keith Van Horn had one good year before splitting to Milwaukee. The only valid person that stayed for more than a year was Stack who’s points increased both years while AI was there.
Andre Miller & AI are two totally different people. Miller came into the league as a pure passer & that’s what he’s known for is passing, Iverson came into the league as one of the best ball handlers in the nation that also could score at will despite his small size. So of course Miller is a better distributor because he’s known for passing but I’m saying that AI will easily average 7-8 assist because of who he is surronded with (Don’t compare Denver to the Pistons)
And I will not comment on the last bs u pulled at the end…. The Hawks don’t think that they are even the 4th best team in the East & they would not beat the Pistons Roster…
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 3, 2008 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Iverson has the reputation for being able to “score at will” but that’s not really an accurate description. He scores, but for most of his career it’s been at fairly low efficiency. He can certainly shoot at will, and given enough shots, he’ll score a bunch, but that’s not always what’s best for his team.
by jae on Nov 3, 2008 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Volume Shooter, not Good Shooter. Correct.
by sjboy on Nov 4, 2008 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Never Said
He was a good shooter, I said he was a good scorer because he will put up a shot that many wont and get to the line. He also will be able to fit better with the Pistons because he’s not taking as many shots as he has in the last few seasons so he won’t be the “ballhog” that many people classify him as.
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 4, 2008 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends what your definition of “good” is. He’s never been particularly efficient. If he didn’t get to the line, he’d be abysmal. His ability to draw fouls makes him an asset, but the points per game is deceptive. He does not add to an offense nearly as much as many believe him to. His absence from a lineup hasn’t resulted in significant drops in team offense as would be expected if he was truly elite.
Iverson did play much better last year in Den than he had in the past, taking fewer shots than he had in Philly. I’m not sure why one would think that he’ll take even fewer in Detroit. That remains to be seen.
by jae on Nov 4, 2008 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah well
Having Melo on your team will cut down your shots. This is why its never worked anywhere with this guy. He needs the ball 80% of the time to become relevant.
Did it in college, did it Philly, did it on the US Olympic team, did it in Denver, and you bet your ass he will do it in Detroit.
Again Michael Curry influence versus Larry Brown – George Karl. It was a business move. Thats it.
See Warriors fans? A Business move, and no one shot the GM.
by sjboy on Nov 4, 2008 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jae- I never said he was efficient, but I said he is a good scorer which comes via shots & free throws. If he couldn’t get to the line, he wouldn’t be relevant at all but since (1/4 of points come from the charity line) he is a great asset.
Sjboy- He doesn’t need the ball 80% of the time but if nobody wants to step up he will. He stepped up in Phili but complained that nobody was helping him score most of the time (Which was true), and that was by far the worse Olympic Team ever put together…. Not to mention Larry Brown was taking a page out of Nellie’s playbook by not giving minutes to LeBron, Melo, Wade & Stoudamire. The Starters? AI, Marbury, Duncan, Jefferson, & Odom/Boozer… That team was doomed to lose…. In Denver, he helped them improve there record & took pressure off of Melo but they just had bad matchups in the playoffs and they all shot like S*it in the playoffs. We’ll see what happens in Detroit.
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 5, 2008 10:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh
Marbury was not on the team.
Also he had lots of help in Philly, its just no one wanted to play with him. Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes, Keith van Horn, Carmelo these were all guys who were really good players at the time of playing with him and it didnt work.
The common denominator? Allen Iverson. He can’t win, because unless he does it all himself, he is not a good distributor. Its not fiction, its fact. He works his tail off on the floor and never takes a play off is why he gets all the love. The man does not like making his team better. Never has, never will. All great players make other players better. Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett are some of the modern day examples.
He is not going to change, he’s been in the league 12 years. He is who he is, and there is no if ands or buts about it. This was a financial move for Detroit to try and aquire Bosh/wade/Melo(how ironic) or LeBron (LOL). Nothing more.
by sjboy on Nov 5, 2008 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Only
Was Marbury on the team sjboy, BUT HE STARTED! Lineup was Marbury, AI, Jefferson, Odom, & Duncan! I I Remember watching em. Larry Hughes was drafted and came off the bench for like 20 Minutes a game and averaged 10 points! Van Horn still averaged his regular amount of points with AI on the team and so did Stack (Started scoring more with Detroit) & Melo! He didn’t make there points go down at all. Hm, Duncan had the franchise player Robinson, KG couldn’t do it until last year with two other possible HOF’s & people like Nash, Nowitski & J-Kidd have made players better but still haven’t won so what does that mean?
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 5, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sjboy.... I don't Detriot is to worried about AI affect Rip
Because they clearly made the trade to clear out salary space without taking on a completely worthless player like Marburry. Futhermore, I think most analyst and followers of the NBA agree this deal was made to get Dumars and Co out of Billups contract (which I believe has 3 more season after this one), because they already have his replacement in Rodney Stuckey. Therefore, it doesn’t matter if AI isn’t a point guard, because he’s probably going to play SG 50% while Stuckey is one the floor. Personally, I think this impacts Rip Hamilton the most, but rumor has that they just extended his contract after making this trade so he’s clearly in there future plans.
sjboy I do agree with you that I’m glad that we don’t to field any more Billups to the Warriors for Al and crap trade rumors. Ok, Dubs fans it’s time for a new (or atleast somewhat newer rumor) of trading Al for Mike Miller.
A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.
by mcwalter44 on Nov 3, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Great post.
Yes it was a dump off move however you have to deal with him this season. Rasheed Wallace is 34. He is the centerpiece of that defense. If you ask me, they are no where near the defensive juggernaut they are now without Sheed. So… are you building for the future, win now? Is Sheed next?
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll reply here since it will get buried up top.
Getting A.I. in Detroit gives them a pure number 1 option come playoff time. If we’ve seen any kind of trends the past 10 or so years with championship teams is that superstars win playoff series’ (With the notable exception of Detroit ironically). That’s why Boston went out and got Ray Allen and KG to go with Pierce. That’s why Shaq and Kobe won, and etc. A.I. can still score with the best of them and with the upgrade in players around him i have no fear they’ll work something out. Don’t forget that A.I. is in a contract year, so he has something to play for still (and i didn’t forget about a championship ring…=)…).
I don’t see how this is a bad trade for Detroit. They needed to change up the roster and Chauncey was expendable with the emergence of Stuckey. They also get massive cap room for this summer (in the 20MM range) and even more in the summer of 2010.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Nov 3, 2008 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Piston's might benifet
They get a player who’s one of the top scorer’s in the league. There will be a lot of defensive pressure on Iverson, which could help to get Rip and Sheed a lot more open looks.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Nov 3, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
They need to tackle Iverson for the ball first.
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Iverson
averages 6.3 assists throughout his career, Billups averages 5.5. So I guess they were tackling Billups too?
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ok so
Assists dont mean anything. THere is a difference between an assist guy and a passing guy.
A.I. is an assist guy, Nash is a pass guy. If you dont understand that, I cant help you. Just look at all the teams A.I. has ever played on, no one plays well with him, because he demands the ball 24/7. Unless he is doubled, he will not give the rock. This is why he has never had a good sidekick or whatever you wanna call it. Apparently the AI – Melo Affair is over as well ( shocker )
Thats what I ment by that comment.
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Nash averages more assists than Iverson. You have to pass to get an assist, so I don’t know what you’re talking about when you say “passing guy” and “assist guy.” He doesn’t demand the ball 24/7, but when he wants to score, he can score. He wants to score a lot, and why not if he can. If he can score and dish, like he does, then I don’t see why you’re hating. He’s exceptional at what he does.
And by the way, your arguments make very little sense. After seeing your recent posts, I’m beginning to question your knowledge of basketball.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
I understand its a little hard to understand. Kenny Smith of Inside the NBA on TNT had a great way to explain it, but then again he had the help of Magic Johnson and video.
Basically assist guys are guys who look to score first, but when they absolutely, positively cannot score, they give it up for someone else.
Pass guys run the offense, for others. Their #1 priority is getting someone else a shot.
So with that said:
Chauncey looks to set up others. Allen Iverson looks to score.
Chauncey pass guy. Iverson assist guy.
On the stat sheet its the same thing, but if you watch the game its 2 different things.
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, it' not the same.
Iverson gets his teammates wide open shots by using his ability to score and sets them up for baskets better than Billups does. There is proof of that when you see Iverson average more assists than Billups.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on Nov 3, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
In 2007 -2008 Season:
Denver: 110.7 points per game and 24.7 assists per game
Detroit: 97.5 points per game and 22.3 assists per game
13 point difference, and only a 2 assist difference. WHat does that tell me? That tells me there is alot of 1 on 1 offense on the Nuggets ( A.I. / Melo ) and there is alot of team basketball on Detroit.
Also, Billups last 3 seasons assist avg:
8.6
7.2
6.8 (playing 32 mpg 10 less minutes then Iverson and sharing time with Stuckey )
0.4?
=/
by sjboy on Nov 3, 2008 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are other explanations beyond “1 on 1” offense. The number of three point shots, the number of shots off of fouls, and the number of conversion putbacks all affect the ratio of assisted baskets and points to assists.
It may be that there is more “team basketball on Detroit” [something you didn’t define, for what it’s worth and somthing for which there can be more than one definition], but one cannot conclusively demonstrate this with what you’ve shown. In fact, Detroit and Denver had virtually identical ratios of assists to made baskets. The discrepancy in points did not come from a higher percentage of their made baskets coming from “one on one” plays.
Facts are a bitch sometimes.
by jae on Nov 3, 2008 6:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And i think pace factor equates into this somewhere.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Nov 3, 2008 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While it may be true that you cannot help people understand the difference between an “assist guy” and a “pass guy”, your inability to help says more about you than it does about anyone else. Perhaps you should try a little harder.
Assists, for what it’s worth, do mean something. They may not be a perfect indicator, but they do tend to be a pretty reasonable indicator of a player’s ability to involve teammates.
by jae on Nov 3, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its a whole lot of nothing. I did not want Billups because he was
exposed last year in the Playoffs. He is old and lost a step or two. AI is on hi last legs and won nothing even with Carmelo and his gang. These players and teams are grasping at straws. Quite frankly I prefer we go after Starbury if the knicks release him. he has more tread left on the tires and would be cheap. Trading old for old never works.
by smearthebeard on Nov 3, 2008 2:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i
feel this trade is dumb billups only was good in detroit cause the way he played was good for detroit. ai is a scorer not a team guy. billups is slow. they ruined chemistry in detroit. this is going to hurt both teams drastically.
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Nov 3, 2008 3:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
they ruined chemistry in detroit.?
I doubt bringing in one of the best scorers in the game will hurt the chemistry. I think the guys will enjoy the chance to watch Iverson play on their team, I know I would. If they can rebound and pass they’ll get along fine with him. If he averages as many assists as billips then the other players better be alert cause Iverson is a little bundle of energy.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 3, 2008 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
tell that to denver that still could not do anything, and the sixers that became better without him. and the way the pistons play is team ball with mulitple options, now all they got is ai who will do most of the scoring. just saying if it don’t work out dont be surprised
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Nov 3, 2008 11:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if it don’t work out dont be surprised
It might be like when Boom came here, Jrich and all the other players embraced him and the chemistry improved. Iverson has to be easier to get along with than Kobe.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Nov 4, 2008 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But
Denver couldn’t do anything because they couldn’t get a stable lineup day in and day out due to injury & suspension etc. Philly rebounded fast because they got 2 first round draft picks to build upon, a solid pg, AI #2, & being in a weak conference helps a bit (they’re record was 40-42 7 seed while the Nuggets were 50-32 8 seed). So I don’t think the chemistry was a problem with the Nuggets.
"Get Er Dun!"
by YayArea510 on Nov 4, 2008 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know I know
Let’s let the teams play and see what happens. Crazy, but it might just work. Or we can continue ranting on about our Basketball knowledge that far exceeds the knowledge of scouts and GM’s.
Fact is we can argue all day about who won the trade, but only time will tell. In the minds of these two teams they made a deal to benefit their team is some way, whether on the court or financially.
by cpt.JAX on Nov 4, 2008 3:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
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