Wake up, Jackson is not the enemy
This is going to be a frustrating season for GSW as we all knew it would be... But reading some of the recent comments and fan posts here it seems that the high hoops IQ many GSOM'ers prided themselves on has gone the way of the GSW win percentage. Where are the intelligent passionate fans? Particularly in regards to Stephen Jackson... People here sound like callers to a brain dead southern California sportstalk show. Suddenly calling for his head... Get rid of him for anyone... He's killing the team... Really??
Did any GSOM'ers happen to notice that he's currently 15th in the league in scoring at 21.4 ppg? That's ahead of Iverson, Anthony, Paul, Garnett, Pierce, and Allen... Oh ya, and when he says not passing enough isn't his problem, take note that he's 11th in the league in assists at 6.4 per game.
Show some hoops IQ folks, sure he's flawed and he's gonna have some off games. Everyone knows he's a streaky shooter, has questionable shot selection, and can be prone to ill advised passes. But this is who he's always been and we loved him for it when he hit 7 straight 3's in Game 4 against Dallas. And when he brought us back into all those games last year with clutch late shooting. The only thing that has changed now is that Baron and Monta are gone and he's suddenly expected to be our go-to scorer and best passer. Guys, he could never do that game in game out, and its not his fault he's being asked to. In fact, we should all be saying thanks Jack, for taking on the responsibility and for trying to do what no one else can: Lead the team.
Is that really hard for people here to understand? He's the best we have right now and I think its great that he's manned up to the impossible task. Everyone on this team 1 through 12 is playing their hardest to help the team. No slackers on this team. But the sad and obvious fact is that we've got some good young talent but without Baron to lead and Monta to create offense the team is a chicken with its head cut off. Its game to game, and so is our best player. Who's fault is that? Any intelligent guesses??
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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Jackson's not the enemy...
…we just aren’t really a very good team. I don’t know who should be blamed if blame is what you’re looking for. But since you asked, whose fault do you think it is?
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on
Nov 30, 2008 1:41 AM PST
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Who's to blame?
Um… Monta? Honestly, I don’t know who to blame.
by heavyccasey on
Nov 30, 2008 2:03 AM PST
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Blame?
Blame Rowell/Nelson/Mullin for not being on the same page. Having a money guy step in and make basketball decisions when he appears to have no more insight than a common fan, and far less than some infomed fans is a recipe for disaster. Blame Cohan for being their collective boss and allowing that situation to occur.
by jae on
Nov 30, 2008 11:17 AM PST
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Thank you..
That’s the point I’m trying to make. Its not fair to blame Jackson for being asked to be a player he cannot be. At least he’s playing with pride and a sense of responsibility, given his own limitations.
by in for life on
Nov 30, 2008 11:49 AM PST
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kinda like
all the hate Harrington got? He who carried us to the playoffs with Baron and JRich?
ya, still bitter – remember that “bitter beer face” commercial? that’s how I’m feeling these days
by hardcore on
Nov 30, 2008 12:24 PM PST
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Exactly...
This is what happens when supporting players are asked to take the lead… Jackson and Harrington are good players but if they are asked to be anything but your 3rd best player, you arent going to have a good team. When the front office has no direction, this is what you get.
by in for life on
Nov 30, 2008 12:56 PM PST
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Jackson can be a good player, if his defense is on and he’s limited in what he’s expected to do on offense. Harrington is a good player about once every 4 or 5 games, but he’s generally not ever good. He ‘carried’ us to the playoffs alongside Baron and Richardson the sense that he was part of the team, but his contributions are entirely replaceable.
by jae on
Nov 30, 2008 1:40 PM PST
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fair enough
let’s see how he does in NY in a similar tempo system for a different coach … and how we do with him this year compared to 48Ws last …
by hardcore on
Nov 30, 2008 2:08 PM PST
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-1
hater
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on
Nov 30, 2008 6:20 PM PST
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No one to blame
except for ownership.
Member of the "Stop calling him Beans" movement
by StSaints408 on
Nov 30, 2008 2:20 AM PST
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don't overrate him
yeah he has nice numbers at a glance, but he also plays the most minutes out of anyone in the league. when you play that much, you’re naturally going to accumulate more numbers. you also conviniently left out his turnover numbers. there’s also the numerous times he stays back to bitch at a ref while the other team streaks for a fast break. great leadership there.
to sum up: if jackson is your best player (or he thinks he’s your best player), you’re not a very good team
by AJC3317 on
Nov 30, 2008 2:55 AM PST
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+1
Jackson has done a commendable job so far as the leader of the team. I admit that he’s a lot better than even i thought he was. But he’s not good enough to be the focal point of a team that wants to win. For now he’s all we got, so i guess we have to accept that. But seeing Jackson on the floor trying to be the “MJ” of the Warriors is a constant reminder that we’re not a good team.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on
Nov 30, 2008 3:33 AM PST
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great post
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on
Nov 30, 2008 6:20 PM PST
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Did any GSOM’ers happen to notice that he’s currently 15th in the league in scoring at 21.4 ppg?
He’s shooting .401 FG% and .289 from the 3 point line
Oh ya, and when he says not passing enough isn’t his problem, take note that he’s 11th in the league in assists at 6.4 per game.
While leading the LEAGUE in turn overs per game.
And when he brought us back into all those games last year with clutch late shooting.
It really annoys me when people mention this when talking about Baron or Jack. I hope you realize that if these guys made their shots earlier in the game they wouldn’t need to make those shots at the end of the game to bring us back.
Signing him to the extension was INCREDIBLY stupid, not matter how you slice it. That, along with the Crawford trade(unless he opts out, we’re stuck with him), essentially took us out of the FA class of ’10 contest. Even if you believe that there was very little chance for us to sign anybody from that class, it is still stupid to close our options this early.
by superk1ng on
Nov 30, 2008 8:48 AM PST
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all too true.
both about the irrational Baron/Jackson love around here, and the fact that without some dramatic trade, or change in ownership, the good teams will be getting better in the FA bonanza of ’10, while the Warriors will still be “led” by Jackson.
by formerlythecity on
Nov 30, 2008 10:25 AM PST
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The Baron love was far less irrational than the Jackson love. Baron was a better player.
by jae on
Nov 30, 2008 11:26 AM PST
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I don’t think we were ever in the FA hunt in ‘10, but we’re also not even a player to broker other people’s deals.
This team isn’t very good and it’s depending on several not particularly probable things going right to get better. The real scary part is now with Jax extended and Crawford around for 2 seasons after this one, we don’t have anything expiring save the league min contracts and rookie deals for several seasons. If Jax wasn’t working out in a year, someone might have wanted him to help clear cap room. Ditto Harrington. Now, we have a terrible team and very, very little to bargain with.
by jae on
Nov 30, 2008 11:14 AM PST
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I think...
I was pretty up front about his limitations… And they’re obvious anyway. My point of all this was to say that its not his fault he’s being asked to be the go-to guy on the team, when clearly he can’t be that guy. I listed the stats to point out that like it or not he IS our best player, and we’d be worse off without him. In an ideal world, he wouldn’t be our best player he would be our 3rd best player. Just like… Hmm.. Maybe in 06/07?? Or even last year when Baron and Monta were around?
So I blame Rowell/Mullin/Nelson for not having enough sense of direction between the 3 of them to get on the same page and try to keep those winning teams together, or at least add some pieces instead of tearing things apart.
by in for life on
Nov 30, 2008 11:58 AM PST
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He is not our best player. The stats you presented do not make someone the best player.
by jae on
Nov 30, 2008 1:40 PM PST
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i blame Webber. and Nellie for bringing him in last year it’s 94-95 all over again.
by the evil monkey on
Nov 30, 2008 9:49 AM PST
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I blame Nellie for driving Webber
out of town the FIRST time.
by formerlythecity on
Nov 30, 2008 10:27 AM PST
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it is still stupid to close our options this early.
It’s also stupid to be worrying about the 2010 season when we have the 2008 season to play. The trouble is not Jax, the trouble is the team is not playing as a team. Nelson doesn’t know how to use everyone to the best potential, he refuses to incorporate basic basketball into his version of the game. If all our players were made to understand that they can have a role and can add value and were given minutes where they could contribute their specific skills we’d be doing a lot better. For instance Rudolf came into the knicks game and added some energy and changed the momentum then was suddenly pulled and sat on the bench with a look of frustration on his face, that’s not the way to get your players to give their best.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on
Nov 30, 2008 9:55 AM PST
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nice post skeptic
i dig it
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on
Nov 30, 2008 6:22 PM PST
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Jack’s definitely not the enemy. It’s not his fault that he’s getting too many minutes, and that management is foolish enough to tell him he’s the best player on the team. Most players will believe that, if you say it to them. It’s human nature. And as you say, good on Jack for trying to lead.
Having said that, this team is operating improperly, and Jack is a big part of the reason why. He’s not good enough to be a team’s primary distributor, he’s not good enough to attack double-teams the way Baron did, and he’s not good enough offensively to merit focusing on that over his defense. Rowell and Nellie aren’t making Jack force showtime passes into traffic… they’re not making him go one-on-three when he’s frustrated about calls. We have enough good, athletic scorers that we don’t need anyone to do a Baron Davis impression… a simple high-motion offense would work for us. But Jack is dead-set on doing his Baron routine, and that’s hurting us.
It’s not worth making too big a deal all of this, because things will change for the better when Monta returns… this version of Jack is not long for this world. But this version of Jack is hurting us, and it’s not solely Rowell and Nellie’s fault.
by onlxn on
Nov 30, 2008 10:58 AM PST
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Well said..
I guess I just think even if he let up a bit on the things you just mentiond, forcing up shots, telegraphing passes, driving the ball into certain death situations we wouldn’t really be that much better. Yes we have some people that are better offensively, but not necessarily go-to type options like Monta. And nobody else is going to fill the leadership role on the floor right now. Clearly the team will be better off when Monta gets back, I just think we shouldn’t come down so hard on Jack when he’s just trying to make something happen and play with some much needed intensity. The team has lost its swaggar and intensity, I’m ok with him trying to keep it alive.
by in for life on
Nov 30, 2008 12:06 PM PST
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I generally agree… I just think it’s a double-edged sword. Jack wanting to lead is not a bad thing, but Jack thinking that playing like Baron Davis constitutes “leading” is a bad thing. Even Baron lost us some games doing his Superman thing… he was good enough to make it work overall, but that I-can-take-on-the-world-by-myself thing is a problem even for him. Chris Paul never does stuff like that, and that’s part of the reason he’s a much better player than Baron.
Swagger is not a bad thing, but swagger that results in poor play is. I’d rather watch placid high-efficiency basketball from BWright than fiery low-efficiency basketball from Jack.
by onlxn on
Nov 30, 2008 1:20 PM PST
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THE ENEMY IS MAGGETTE, DONT LET HIS STATS FOOL U!
maggette isnt a team player…i rather have dikembe mutombo instead of him …
by AlbinoWhale on
Nov 30, 2008 1:23 PM PST
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+1
Maggette ruins the offensive flow. If he’s getting that many touches a game, he should have at least 5 assists a game. But no.
Nelly has needed to (ever since monta went down) incorporate a different style offense. One on one isn’t going to cut it… obviously. If Nelly continues to run the offense the way its been run in the first 17 games, expect the same results.
Piss Poor Nelli. Utilize some flexibility. Aren’t you a “Basketball” mind. Run a play for sht sakes.
by Gurthy on
Nov 30, 2008 1:37 PM PST
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bench maggs….have a bigger starting lineup with more defense in mind…the offense will come
jamal
sjacks
beans
turiaf
randolph/wright
3 towers of power!
by DeepS on
Nov 30, 2008 2:31 PM PST
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he doesn’t…he provides the handles for the offense…we got no other choice for point really…everyone else in that lineup has excellent defensive capabilities..
by DeepS on
Nov 30, 2008 2:39 PM PST
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i mean its like when we had ellis…his defense sucks…but we need him for offense
ull see…jamal is an amazing point, he just hasnt had the opportunity to really showcase it here yet
by DeepS on
Nov 30, 2008 2:41 PM PST
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Sure, he's great.
But I only like him when he’s playing his role. He was at his best when he was the 2nd best playmaker on the team, behind Baron, and a 2nd or 3rd option in scoring next to Baron and Monta.
When he had Baron and Monta next to him, it allowed him to play his role and to play at his best. With Baron and Monta out, he feels the need to have to do too much in order to get the team a win. He’s trying to be Kobe-esque by always having the ball in his hands, shooting jumpshots even when he has three guys guarding him.
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The thing is that he’s ballhogging way too much. Sure, his point average is great, but he’s taking most of the team’s shots as the number one option on the team. He’s getting his 20+ ppg in a non efficient way. I liked the 20ppg he got last year when the team also had 2 other 20 point players on the team (Baron and Monta); it showed that the ball was going around a lot. Also, you failed to mention how many turnovers he’s averaging. Along with his ballhogging, he always tries to force everything and ends up turning the ball over.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Jackson. But like I already mentioned, I only love him when he plays his role. He was great when he’d be our best defender and 2nd or 3rd best scorer on the team. He’s a great play finisher but not much of a play creator most of the time. I love his clutch shots, but he’s not going to get as many clutch shots if he’s always taking shots in the first place. There was a good balance of clutch shots between Baron and Jackson last season, because the defense didn’t really know which player to put emphasis on.
Just watch him when he ballhogs, it ruins the team’s offense. He wastes hella time off of the shot clock, and then puts up a bad shot. Also, when games get tense and the scores are close, Jackson tries to take things into this own hand and ballhogs forever. He’s great when he plays as a role player next to a great scorer, though. Like when he played alongside Baron and Monta, Warriors fans were very greatful to have him. But for now, he has to earn Corey Maggette’s respect and once Monta comes back things will start looking brighter.
As of now, Corey doesn’t even want to listen to Jackson. Whenever Jackson tries to get all vocal with the team, Corey just gives him a look as if to say, “Whatever, man”. I don’t see Corey nodding his head going, “yeah man, I gotchu, let’s do this and win”. It’s like Corey is thinking to himself, he got paid all of that money to go to Golden State, and he’s not even one of the captains on the team. He has to listen to Jackson instead.
That leads to the team collapsing during games. When crunch time comes around, everyone just starts ballhogging because each of them thinks that they’re the “go to” guy. It results in a lot of bad shots.
It’s not completely Jackson’s fault, though. Maggette can also do better to play his role, and Nellie can do a better job with the young guys.
by Five Ten Entertainment on
Nov 30, 2008 2:34 PM PST
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"Its not fair to blame Jackson for being asked to be a player he cannot be".
No one is asking Jackson to be the Kobe of our team. He’s not the ONLY player on the Warriors that has to step up, so why the hell is he playing like he’s the only scorer on the team. Sure, we’re relying on him to lead the team without Baron and Monta, but IT IS POSSIBLE that he can lead the team WITHOUT ballhogging. That’s where all of the complaining is coming from. Yes, we’re aware about the whole Rowell/Cohan/Mullin situation, but they’re NOT the ones making Jackson’s decisions when he’s playing in games.
We’re aware of what he can do, that’s why we’re frustrated when we see him playing differently. There’s more he can do as a leader, he can help give confidence in the young guys and help get them involved during games. The only time I see him pass is when he has no other options. He’ll run down the shot clock, and then try to force a pass and cause a turnover.
Look at onlxn’s fanshot, Jackson’s +/- shows that the Warriors are playing better when he’s off of the floor (most of the time). And it doesn’t even take stats to notice that, I remember being hella frustrated with Jackson during the first quarter of the Blazers game. He ballhogged the whole quarter and Morrow only got 3 touches. Once Nellie took Jackson out of the game and put in Watson, the Warriors GAINED momentum and Morrow hit 2 three pointers and ended up with 25 points.
Don’t assume that i’m trying to demonize Jackson right now, though. I LOVE the guy, I just know that he can do MUCH BETTER on the court. I know he’s trying hard out there, but he’s trying hard in the wrong way. Maggette needs to stop ballhogging as well, he needs to do his job and slash to get us to the line. When Monta comes back, Jackson will hopefully play more better because he’ll have pressure taken off of him on offense. The players on the Warriors just have to get their head straight right now. It’s still early into the season, there’s still hope.
by Five Ten Entertainment on
Nov 30, 2008 3:04 PM PST
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You make a lot of good points...
and I acknowledge the occasional ball hogging and turnovers. The only reason I didn’t post the turnover stat is because it wasn’t readily available during my rapid visit to espn.com… I’m not trying to oversell him at all. And of course there are times he could make better decisions. Again, we’ve always known these things about him. And realistically I just don’t see that there’s going to be a huge difference in the overall offensive success of the team either way until Monta gets back. This team has much bigger problems in my mind then a guy who is trying his hardest play ball, flawed as he is.
by in for life on
Nov 30, 2008 9:36 PM PST
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I blame...
the “fans” that jumped ship when BD opted out, the front office/ownership for playing their own game and al qaeda
by Dr. Orpheus on
Nov 30, 2008 7:16 PM PST
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Way to defend Jack.
This post was needed.
by onetwocross on
Nov 30, 2008 8:44 PM PST
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