Maggette will be very, very difficult for the Warriors to trade (for a long time) [Talking Points]

GSoM friend Tim Kawakami breaks down why Corey Maggette will be hard for the Dubs to move.

I have to say I'm a little surprised about all the shots Maggette's taking from the media and fanbase alike for not passing or playing D. Why does this surprise anyone? He's not doing anything different than his previous 8 years would suggest. Maggette is a good rebounder for a swingman and absolutely excels at taking it to the hole, drawing the foul, and making his free throws. He does little else positive on the court, but everyone should've already known that- including the Warriors who oddly overbid for his services this past season. Maggette's not the problem here- it's the unfair expectations and panic contract offer post BD's departure.

6 months ago Atma Brother ONE Comment 43 comments 0 recs |

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Right on the money...

as usual.

by chacabuco on Dec 10, 2008 10:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

To whom are you referring?

If it’s to Atma, I wholeheartedly agree. Maggette has been getting a raw deal here. It’s all the expectations that people have if anything that has been the disappointment.

Kawakami is just regurgitating what he’s been reading over here at GSoM and at the ESPN.com/NBA.com Corey Maggette statistics webpages. Really?!??! Maggette hasn’t been playing well? He’s been injured? Really?!?!? Nobody else would want a 30 year old injury prone player who’s currently injured and on a long expensive contract?!?!? OMG Kawakami, you’re so right!!! Excellent reporting Ric Romero!

What’s next? He’s going to report that the Warriors are going to be a better basketball team when Monta comes back from his injury? Is he going to suggest that the Warriors show better defensive performance on possessions when they grab a defensive rebound than when they don’t?

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

nah dude

“It’s all the expectations that people have if anything that has been the disappointment”

Sorry man that is just not true. The signing was a shiite signing from the beginning, and a lot of people voiced their displeasure with it at the time it happened. For warriors fan that have watched Maggette in a clippers jersey for so many years, bringing him to the team was nothing to get excited about. Now, he has played even WORSE than many of us anticipated, at a time when we need all hands on deck. It is indeed a perfect storm of hateration; but to say that he’s been getting a raw deal is just not true. Let me quote kawakami for truth:

But I also must acknowledge: Maggette came to the Warriors with a reputation as a brittle, single-minded, one-dimensional, selfish player, and that’s exactly what he has shown himself to be so far. He’s EXACTLY what the Warriors don’t need (especially in long-term tandem with Stephen Jackson), yet he’s guaranteed large money for four more seasons after this one.

"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."

by GameSix on Dec 10, 2008 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Atma is right on the $

If I want to comment to Tim, I do it on his blizzog.

by chacabuco on Dec 10, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not that he's getting called out for his D,

No one plays defense on this team.

He’s getting ragged on for being a selfish player who misses shots and slows down the entire offense.

Monta! Montaye! Montae!

by Baked Biedrins on Dec 10, 2008 10:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yet...

In possessions that he uses, he scores efficiently. Maybe he’s not the problem. Maybe it’s other people thinking that they can do what he does. Maybe it’s people expecting him to perform like a healthy Corey Maggette when he’s been playing on zero good legs all season… I don’t know, but he doesn’t suck at basketball.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right, he really dosen't suck

I mean, I was as excited as anyone when he inked the deal this summer.

Maybe after he gets some time to recover he’ll be back to his old game, yah?

Monta! Montaye! Montae!

by Baked Biedrins on Dec 10, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

hamstrings are notoriously hard to recover from. Especially because it doesn’t really bother you that much most of the time. Take a quick gander at Maggette’s ESPN NBA Player News page:

http://games.espn.go.com/fba/resources/playernews

A little below halfway down:

News: Maggette (hamstring) feels that shutting it down for a couple of weeks is not the best way to get his hamstring back to 100%, the Contra Costa Times reports.

Spin: “I’m not trying to shut it down,” Maggette said. “The best way I can do it, if you talk to Tom (Warriors trainer), is I’ve got to sit out. Hopefully, a few days will be fine and I can get back. There’s really no rhyme or reason as to what I’m supposed to do. This is new to me to have to deal with this.” Maggette, who is averaging 19.1 points and 5.7 rebounds, has been dealing with hamstring problems in both legs since training camp.

He knows that he’s got to shut it down for a few weeks, but he’s not going to. He’ll reinjure it. Hopefully the trainer convinces him to take a little longer than Maggette wants, but I doubt it.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good point.

Look what the hammy did to Griffey Jr.

I really hope he does shut it down for as long as it takes, he should realize him and the team aren’t going anywhere fast.

Monta! Montaye! Montae!

by Baked Biedrins on Dec 10, 2008 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

At least with him playing injured.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Question for you Boston?

You obviously like Maggette’s game, not saying I dont, he just doesn’t seem to fit us. So where does he fit in when Monta’s back?
He’s not a powerforward, and putting him there seems to kill Andris’ game. My opinion is that we have way too many guards and small forwards on this team. Betweend Jamal, Maggs, Jack and Monta, one of them has to go. I like the idea of just trading Maggs for some scrap players that are signed to 1 year deals, for instance, trade him to OKC for Joe Smith and Desmond Mason. Monta is definitely a keeper, then I would say that it’s a toss up between Jacks and’Mal. EIther way Maggette appears like the odd man out, what’s your take?

by myk on Dec 11, 2008 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Crawford trade was a real headscratcher

I don’t see how tying up $40M+/year in 4 guards is going to get the job done, but if they can take 35 minutes each at the 1/2/3, I’m cool with that. That squeezes out the younger guys, but if they’re all signed for 3+ years, we’ve got time to develop new younger guys later and they play positions that are more easily replaced. We need some good players up front. Biedrins is one, Turiaf fits the back up role, but we need either BWright or Randolph to become a solid starting PF. That’s not going to happen. It’s not like we could have gotten a solid PF for Al (he was a “not-solid” PF), but “it is what it is” as the athletes like to say. Let’s hope for BWright, shall we?

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 12, 2008 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i personally think people are too hard on him

remember the games earlier in the season when we always had those droughts of like 8 mins without a FG? that stopped once maggs came back… lol and his jump shots that he’s been missing recently… I wouldn’t say they are HORRIBLE shots… I mean for the most part it is a open look… he’s just not hitting them…
and defensively… what more can he do… he’s buff as hell but he’s only like 6’5"

plus… Watson gets burned on defense so bad he’s out of the picture (notice on replays of these guys who get in the lane… watson isn’t even in the clip after 2 secs when the guy starts his move)… biedrins rotates over to help…
then Maggs has to try and stop a 7 footer from dunking on him?… yeah good luck with that…

by dyun on Dec 10, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

A 7 footer who’s not only in better position in the first place because Maggette has to rotate onto him, but a 7 footer who breathes low post positioning… not something Maggette, as a perimeter player, will ever do very well.

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah... Maggette is getting a bad rep for his contract situation...

Management (whether it was Mullin or Rowell…) is at fault for giving him that contract when he was offered way less by other teams. People are just looking at his contract and trying to see how his play justifies it. In two words… it doesn’t.

Most fans have high expectations…. and I’m assuming that most of the fans did not see him play before he got to the team. He’s playing exactly how he’s always played. He’s good at what he does… but when teams lose, fans look at people to blame. Scapegoats are created for people to talk… and people like to talk. That’s one of the major reasons why so many fans on this site is calling for Nelson to be fired. As soon as this team comes together, and we all hope they do, they should be fine. They’ll be together for the next 4 years or so.

by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 10, 2008 11:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nope

He’s not playing exactly like he always has. His percentages are down across the board and he’s being asked to defend against guys who are way larger than him. Could it have something to do with his hamstrings? Probably.
Could it have something to do with the fact that when he gets the ball other teams pack the paint knowing that NOBODY ON THE COURT CAN SHOOT 3s, SO EVEN IF HE DOES DISH THE BALL THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES? Maybe a little (said with a sarcastic understatement voice).

Could it be that constantly getting elbows in the face for a crappy team while guarding other teams’ PFs just doesn’t motivate him? Maybe. Is that his “fault”, mostly. Even if he was performing up to his career levels, would it make a lick of a difference? Not really.

Last year, it was Pietrus and Barnes. This year it’s Maggette’s turn to play undersized PF. If you can tell me who it is, I can tell you who the scapegoat is going to be next year. Isn’t that gonna be fun?

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup... it'll be fun until we start winning.

Yeah Maggette is playing on bad hamstrings. I get it. Playing undersized sucks too.

All I’m saying is he was the same type of player coming in that he was last season. He is a good scorer who can get to the line and can rebound well from his position. Nothing more nothing less. He is a proficient passer and is doing ok with the team defensive schemes. Everyone shouldn’t be looking toward him to be the tell all savior. No one should have expected him to replace Baron Davis’s numbers. But everyone seems to be crucifying him like he was made out to be the key piece to finalize this team and has failed us all.

Once we start winning, there will be less complaning and more trade ideas to make this team “better” as the need for a scapegoat is eliminated. And so the world turns.

by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 10, 2008 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

who is saying this?

But everyone seems to be crucifying him like he was made out to be the key piece to finalize this team and has failed us all.

Nope, that is not the case. Nobody expected him to take over for Baron. The issue: he was/is the wrong guy for the team, lots of people knew it, and its insanely frustrating now to watch that play out. It doesn’t help his case that he’s playing below his career averages, something you could chalk up to nerves/injruy/etc, but even when he does revert to what he’s capable of I don’t know how he fits into this warriors team. Again: there is a REASON he is perennial loser. He’s not a scapegoat (yet) but fans know trash when they see it (see: junior dunleavy). What do y’all see in him that I don’t? All I keep hearing are variations of “OMG LOOK AT THOSE PPG AND HE IS SO EFFIC1ENT!!” which on this team is about as useful as a doody flavored lollipop.

"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."

by GameSix on Dec 11, 2008 6:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I never said that he wasn't a perennial loser....

You’ll never catch me in a Maggette jersey! I honestly would have rather seen Pietrus in a Warrior uniform still than Maggette… at least he would be that much cheaper. I didn’t even say he was a good fit. Actually, even before he was signed here I was posting that he shouldn’t be because he was a mirror image of what Monta brought to the table, and having two slashers with Beans in the middle will not help the offensive flow of this team. But what’s done is done.

Sure… we look better without Corey Maggette in the line up (4-2) but unfortunately he’s still on this team no matter what. He’s locked in with a ridiculous contract that no one else was looking to offer. It’s not Corey Maggette’s fault that he got that contract (which was way more than what he should have been guarenteed)… he just signed it. Warrior management (Rowell or Mullin) offered it. I’m just saying that he’s efficient at what he does (score) and rebounds decently for his position… nothing more and nothing less. Hopefully Nellie finds out that the best way to use Maggette would be off the bench to give Monta, Jackson or Crawford a rest… because an instant scorer off the bench would be a nice asset to have… and if he sucks, place him back on the bench. Its the $50 mil mistake… and as a Warrior fan I’m just not surprised.

by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 11, 2008 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

haha

so basically you’re telling me to look at his ppg and how efficient he is…haha. yeah its definitely a situation i will need to learn to live with. i’m just not optimistic that nelson finds a way to play him in the role you suggest. that much money + eager to “get his” = bitching about coming off the bench

"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."

by GameSix on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah... I know

I’m still learning to live with him on the roster… I have a strong feeling they’ll end up buying out his contract before the 5 year mark is up… unless we can pull off a “Dunleavy” type trade.

by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 11, 2008 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

he's a good guy, a good player... just not a 5 year 50 mil.

i dont even get why we did that, spurs only offered him a 2-3 year mid level exception. Couldnt we have just gone 3-24mil or something

by Warriors510 on Dec 10, 2008 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I'm saying...

But that’s on management… if someone offered you $5 mil to sit on the bench for half a year I’m sure you’d take it…. we’d all take it.

by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 10, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Couldnt we have just gone 3-24mil or something

Maybe, maybe not. Only Maggs and his agent know for sure.

Just to be clear, it wasn’t our money vs. theirs. It was their offer AND shot at a title vs. our money but little shot at winning a title on the table. We don’t REALLY know what the terms of the Spurs interest was (rumors get started, usually by the jealous people), but we know that they couldn’t offer more in starting salary than they’re rumored to since that’s all they had. There’s some cash price that comes at luring someone away from a title shot and that’s what we did. It might have been years and money that he required, but a dollar and year offer identical to what the Spurs could give wasn’t going to do it and I suspect that bidding a wee bit more wouldn’t have done it either.

The real questions in terms of whether we ‘overbid’ are whether he would have taken a lower offer (and this is not clear) and, if someone else had the money to offer, they would have offered it up (and this is not clear). Would he have accepted less? I don’t know. None of us do. Maybe we offered less and his agent came back with a price. That’s how negotiations work in other fields, so I don’t suspect it was all a case of the Warriors tossed out a number initially and it didn’t change. Maybe the interest from the Spurs was real, maybe it wasn’t. Maybe the Spurs, had they had the cap room would have ponied up something close to what we did. None of these things do we know for certain.

by jae on Dec 10, 2008 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

i dont like maggs much, but

i dont have that much against maggs, its more that we are using him completely wrong…

-he should never be on the court at the same time as jackson
-he should be commin off the bench for jackson, giving jackson the much needed reset he needs to be more effective and also to be an energy boost to the team off the bench
-he should never be on the coart unless there are 2 bigs in (turiaf/randolph/wright/beans)

by DeepS on Dec 10, 2008 11:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

he should have been signed

by IndubitableBayAreaGM on Dec 10, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

shouldnt^

by IndubitableBayAreaGM on Dec 10, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

but since we’re probably stuck with him…we might as well use him in the right way if we cant trade him for someone useful

by DeepS on Dec 10, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

we might as well use him in the right way if we cant trade him for someone useful

That’s the smartest thing said so far.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 10, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

I agree

by mykelala01 on Dec 10, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the biggest problem is when monta comes back we’re tied over 40 mil into 4 SGs…..

on a side note, how did kirilenko get that big a contract?!!?

by Warriors510 on Dec 10, 2008 1:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

he’s right though it’d have ot be a bad contract… and kirilenko has 1 lol

by Warriors510 on Dec 10, 2008 1:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Marcus Thompson

I was at the Spurs game on Saturday, sadly…and one of the things my brother and I noticed was Jamal Crawford’s body language when Mags took a few shots after zero ball movement. Didn’t think much of it, nowhere really to post it. Then I read this note on insidebayarea.com

Post-game Tid Bits (at Spurs)
By Marcus
Saturday, December 6th, 2008 at 10:02 pm in Uncategorized.

You know how hard it was not to yawn while sitting courtside at that debacle?

* I found out more about Jamal Crawford’s reaction to quick-draw Corey. When Maggette missed those consecutive shots in a span of a humming bird’s flap, Crawford looked at the bench and said "Are you serious?"

Hurts to watch him put on a warrior jersey every night. He will eventually get on a hot streak and get back to his career averages, that much is inevitable. The question is, when Monta is added back into the mix, how will mags fit in? Not that I don’t love watching his nightly flops and head-down-no-plan drives to the rim, but when even his own teammates are cringing at him, its time to wake up.

"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."

by GameSix on Dec 10, 2008 1:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

lol

gotta love JC, he keeps it real

by DeepS on Dec 10, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

gotta love JC, he keeps it real

He’s quite a ballhog himself, maybe it takes one to know one?

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 10, 2008 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeesh

From espn insider

2007-08 season: For nearly every player, a layup is better than a 20-footer. But last season, that wasn’t the case for Crawford. He was one of the worst finishers in all of basketball, making only 42.4 percent of his shots in the immediate basket area. But on long 2-pointers, he hit a sizzling 46.1 percent, and in fact was among the best shooters in the league from both the left side of the floor (7th, 49.3 percent) and from straight on (8th, 47.4 percent).

Though both the close-in and long-2 shooting numbers were outliers from his previous career numbers, he ended up in almost exactly the same spot: Crawford posted a player efficiency rating between 14.60 and 15.99 for the sixth straight season.

While he scored at a high rate, Crawford’s contribution in other areas was less encouraging. He ranked 67th among the league’s 71 point guards in assist ratio, so he was rarely setting the table; perhaps more surprising is that he had the third-worst rebound rate in all of basketball, corralling only 3.7 percent of missed shots when he was on the floor. Crawford is 6-5 and can jump; the fact that Earl Boykins nearly outrebounded him is embarrassing.

lol…well maybe he is trying to turn a new leaf, too much pressure in NY to be a one man show, trash team around him, etc. At this point however, with the dubs, he is over his career average on assists.

"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."

by GameSix on Dec 11, 2008 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

btw……

mags, bwright, marcus williams, bellinelli 4 kirilienko and millisap works.

now being able to resign millisap is another Q

by Warriors510 on Dec 10, 2008 1:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

more importantly… the potential of a kirilenko/biedrins front court sponsored by LA Look rock hard hair gel) would intimidate most nba front courts as much as a white power rally

by Warriors510 on Dec 10, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Far more difficult would be attempting to convince Utah that they don't need Kirilenko or Milsap

"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0

by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Especially with Kirilenko accepting a bench role...

Kirilenko is a good player and a great defender. Having someone like that off the bench is a luxury that most teams would like to have.

by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 10, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In my opinion

Maggette’s value would be much higher if we could get him to come off the bench as a pure scorer for 30 mins/game. A lot of contenders need unselfish scorers to come off the bench, but not many need a ballhog in the starting lineup. All the bad teams that actually need a 40 mpg Maggette are waiting for 2010.

Also, maybe all the teams that lose the Bron sweepstakes will want a piece of Maggette in a couple of years.

by antihero on Dec 10, 2008 2:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs