If Marcus Williams could shoot...
by ikiru36 on Dec 12, 2008 11:54 PM PST
47 comments
I think he'd be worth having traded for a protected 1st round pick. He has amazing court vision and passing ability whenever I've seen him play this year (though tonight's 4th quarter in particular).
Unfortunately, he seems to be a truly below average shooter (though he did somehow manage to shoot 38% from 3 last year with a moderate number of attempts) and we've only gotten to see him with the second team which isn't as efficient at finishing off of his dimes.
Just wondering if anyone else has gotten the same sense as me that his ability to find other players and get them the ball in good scoring position truly stands out in relation to the Warriors other "point guards." Honestly, I think that CJ has been playing very well and Jamal Crawford has a bit of point guard in him but you really see the difference when a player is a natural "true" point guard. (Oh Baron, how we miss thee...)
Guess I'm just saying that I see flashes of what the Dubs likely saw when going after Marcus Williams this past summer. Too bad he's a less than tenacious or quick defender with a poor and erratic shot. Still, if he could modestly address those issues, there's a double digit assist man waiting to come out.
I'm normally a big stat guy and honestly, his stats don't tend to back up my contentions as prior to this year he's yet to average even a 2 to 1 Ast/to ratio. Nevertheless, just wondering if anyone else sees what I see in terms of his feel for the offense and his passing ability?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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let him play
No other point guard and we are going to loose anyway so let him play
so if Yinka Dare was our only true center, you’d say “No other center and we are going to lose anyway so let him play”???
actually, since we didn’t pick up his option for next season (meaning he’s as good as gone) , there really is no incentive to playing him except for perhaps increasing his trade value. whether he’d play good enough for that to happen is a different story.
by the evil monkey on Dec 13, 2008 12:23 AM PST up reply actions
he isnt yinka dare. I think williams gets a bad deal from nellie. He doesnt turn it over, and gets alot fo assists. Thats got to be worth 10 mins a game for an extended period of time to see what happens. I think his lack of shot is purely confidence. He NEVER PLAYS. Granted if we showed confidence i wouldnt expend anthony morrow or anything…. but what i remember from uconn, he had a decent 3 shot (and his nba percentage shows that again) and he drove and got to line a fair amount, shooting 88% from line.
cj watson isnt the future… give him a shot nels!
well
he didn’t really play in new jersey either. he got some minutes there, but they didn’t have 19 guards on their roster. like evil said, he’s on his way out the door anyway, so why play him? there are so many other guys who we should be giving pt to that i don’t want their minutes cut so that some future ex-warrior can get a little burn. let’s find out what the guys we’ll have next season can do. work with them.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
well he was jason kidds backup in new jersey. you’re not gonna see more than 10 minutes….
i dont think cj watson is a good pg, and perhaps marcus williams could develop a little and become a PG for this team in the future. We already waisted a pick on him, and his performance has nothing to do with which pick tey get so why not give him a run…..Lets face it, crawfords made it a little better, but the warriors look a bit lost w/o a natural ball handler. sure cj scores more, but we dont REALLY need another scorer on floor, between jack, mags, crawford…morrow, bellinelli, buke we got enough guys who will shoot, we need a guy who distributes and possibly finds the biedrins, bwright, turiaf more often around the rim….I just dont see a real ‘negative’ in giving him an extended shot. We’re outta payoffs, its a rebuild year, he’s still VERY young (infact younger than watson)
unless we land #1 pick next year (blake griffin) we’ll probably draft a pg as its deep this draft….i think marcus williams could help the team though because even w/ a rookie PG, they r prolly a couple eyars from starting and could use another PG to help the team.
and even if we dont like marcus williams, a little pt will showcase his skills, and make him perhaps more desired trade bait
by Warriors510 on Dec 13, 2008 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
well these were his problems in NJ, courtesy of ESPN.
2007-08 season: Williams is what I call a basketball narcissist: He keeps calling his number despite horrid percentages and bushels of turnovers. If he ever decides to chill out and become an actual point guard there’s enough talent here to turn into a real player, but who knows if the light bulb will ever come on.
It’s hard to overstate how harmful Williams’ me-first offensive tendencies are. He used a ton of possessions and used them horribly, ranking in the top third of point guards in usage rate but sporting the third worst turnover ratio at his position and a sub-50 true shooting percentage. He ranked 58th out of 71 points guards in pure point rating, even though, theoretically, he’s supposed to be a natural point guard.
About the only positives were his improvement to 38.0 percent on 3-pointers, which would make him a useful spot-up guy if he’d stop trying to drive 1-on-5 so much, and the sixth best rebound rate among point guards.
Scouting report: Offense isn’t Williams’ only problem. He was out of shape and was routinely blistered by opposing point guards last season, which is why 38-year-old Darrell Armstrong was able to eat into his minutes even though he was about the only player in captivity who made worse decisions than Williams at the point. New Jersey was phenomenally bad on D with Williams playing, giving up 9.0 points more per 48 minutes than with him off the court.
A left-hander with a great feel for the game, Williams actually could be pretty good if he decided to be a pass-first player. Scouts compared him to Mark Jackson coming out of college — yes, seriously — and if he gets in shape and gets his head on straight, there’s still an opportunity for that caliber of player to come out. But he’s a poor finisher and only a middling shooter, so if he’s trying to score 20 a night it’s not gonna work.
2008-09 outlook: The Nets traded Williams to Golden State for a lottery-protected — heck, lottery embalmed — first round pick that might not even be a first when all is said and done and likely won’t be theirs for at least a few years.
He’ll begin the year with the backup point guard job, just as he did in New Jersey a year ago, but I don’t expect Don Nelson to be any more tolerant of Williams’ selfish play than Lawrence Frank was. If he can get in shape and focus on passing he’ll have a nice year, especially since Monta Ellis will be out of the lineup at the start of the season; otherwise he might find himself again kicked to the curb for a veteran retread with a fraction of his talent.
Most similar at age: Keyon Dooling
by the evil monkey on Dec 13, 2008 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
i wasn’t saying he was yinka… just using an extreme example to show that just b/c you only have 1 of something doesn’t mean you should be playing it.
by the evil monkey on Dec 13, 2008 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
or if he could dribble
the man dribbles higher than stephen jackson.
If Marcus Williams had foot speed to play D.
This is the real reason why he’s not playing. He’s too slow. I see Ronnie having an easier time containing guards off the switch in practice. Watson gets around him with ease in the one on one drills
we
would have billups
So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!
by 24k state fan since 87 on Dec 13, 2008 1:07 AM PST up reply actions
he’s a decent passer, but tonight was more the Rocket’s getting lazy and blowing assignments and leaving people wide open. that’s why Adelman got so pissed and called that timeout after no one bothered to cover Randolph.
he actually threw some risky passes that luckily were deflected out of bounce or they probably would have ended up being turnovers.
even at his best, he seems like a slower, poor man’s version of Sebastian Telfair.
by the evil monkey on Dec 13, 2008 12:19 AM PST reply actions
Fair enough regarding the riskyness of his passes, even tonight. That may explain his previously poor ast./to ratio. Nevertheless, he was finding what the Rockets were giving us with greater acumen tonight than anyone else. Despite his poor shooting (and belineli’s too, this evening), I felt that it was his play running the second team which caused us to make a run at the Rockets in the latter half of the 4th quarter.
I guess I’m just trying to find silver linings and rational explanations for some of the Dubs personnel decisions of the past 6 months. As a preferred optimist and season ticket holder, I have no other choice. :0)
The Telfair quip is not unfounded, though IF Marcus were willing to take advantage of it, he does have a great deal more size and strength than a Sebastian Telfair-type which ought to allow him back smaller pgs down or finish drives well despite contact. That’s a big “if” however. :0(
silver linings.
Marco’s defense in terms of knowing where to be and how to defend certain plays is getting better – though he looked lost in the zone tonight against Denver.
Kurz looks like a poor man’s troy murphy at 1/20th the price or an old man’s version of Croshere w/o the back problems.
but back to Marcus. yeah i don’t know whether he has a post game or not. he’d probably be better off doing that then trying to take guys off the dribble seeing as how he’s so slow even after losing all that weight. from what i’ve seen in garbage time, i think he has major problems finishing (ala CJ), so if he’s not a threat to score down low, i’d imagine it wouldn’t matter anyway.
hopefully, he keeps losing weight and gets to a point where he can at least beat out CJ. though i’m pretty sure if he’s not traded, he’s going to get cut when Monta’s suspension is up.
by the evil monkey on Dec 14, 2008 12:08 AM PST up reply actions
over his career, he’s turned the ball over 14% of his possesions (year 1, 14.1. year 2, 14.7). this is horrible for a PG. Jackson is having one of his worst years turning the ball over and he’s at 12.6. in 06-07, the year he kept stepping out of bounds, Pietrus was at 12.4
Baron, fyi, is routinely under 10. this season he’s at 7.8.
call me crazy, but i think the 2169 minutes he’s probably played against 2nd stringers is probably a lot more indicative to the type of player he is than the 37 minutes he’s played in garbage time.
by the evil monkey on Dec 13, 2008 11:42 PM PST up reply actions
I think he'd be worth having traded for a . . .
I really don’t mind trading Williams. Although, I agree that he is a good passer and have good court vision. I would play Belinelli over him. Based on performance vs Rockets and Bucks, Beli seems to be just as capable or even better at passing and scoring.
also our pick is protected so
if we don’t make the playoffs we still get it… im pretty sure this is the case.
Nets will be getting a draft pick regardless though
If the Warriors make the playoffs in 2011, the Nets will get Golden State’s first-round pick that year. If not, the Nets get Golden State’s pick in 2012, as long as it is not 1 through 11, or the Warriors’ pick in 2013, as long as it is not 1 through 10. If the Nets are not awarded any of those picks, they will instead acquire Golden State’s second-round picks in 2013 and 2015.
If I am wrong i will respond with a D'Oh
yup your rigth in 2099 th nest get our number 1 pick. At that point we will all be dead. So who the f cares!
by smearthebeard on Dec 13, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
Marcus...
…should be getting at least 10-15 minutes. It’s really not fair for him to have his ass nailed to the bench at this point. I’d especially like to see him in the game when Maggs comes back. The presence of a true pass-first point guard would make the offense more free flowing and less stagnant. CJ has been playing well, but he looks more like a Mike James-type of PG that could be your energy guy/quick points off the bench. This team doesn’t need another scorer in the starting lineup, they need a distributor. Regardless of what you might think about him or his lack of a consistent shot (you’re neglecting the fact he was probably cold last night since he sat for the first 3 quarters of the game), his passing ability is too valuable to waste. I don’t know what Nellie was talking about saying he needs to get faster. I know he isn’t as quick as Baron, but he made it seem as if he was as slow as Jerome James. Lol.
Were We Watching the Same Game?
This guy must have the slowest feet ever. People blew by him everytime – much worse than CJ who is already bad on Defense. This guy is a W’s killer. Waive his ass ASAP. This guy is horrible.
I think we were watching the same game as I stated “Too bad he’s a less than tenacious or quick defender.” However, last night, despite has awful bricks from 3 while he was in the game he managed a +/- of +7 so even if his D seemed awful somehow the team appeared to benefit overall.
BTW, I absolutely grant that +/- stats are only meaningful in their own right with a sample size of probably at least, say, 200 minutes of PT. But if I remember correctly the Rockets were still playing some of their starters and the run Williams was involved with forced them to bring even more starters back in.
I just wouldn’t mind seeing him get a few more minutes, earlier in the game, particularly if we’re struggling to get decent looks out of our half court offense, to see what happens. (so long as he shoots nothing but lay-ups unless he starts outside shooting a lot better than he’s yet shown he is capable of.)
this kid better get more playing time
his shot will come around if he starts to play more than once every 5 games. he can dribble really well, he can pass really well. he needs to get some minutes.
Is it just me...
or does anyone else think Marcus Williams looks “high” 24/7?
good luck
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
thank you! With your blessing the trade will happen. Your awesome dude!
by smearthebeard on Dec 13, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
no problem
if charlotte actually accepted that deal, i would run screaming in the streets. however, since there’s zero chance of it happening, seeing the same post over and over gets old to read. no one wants marcus williams. no one wants corey maggette. the warriors aren’t going to get anything of use for maggette two and a half months into a five-year contract, especially when he’s already hurt.
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
perfect
sign me up brother
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
We all know Maggette wont get traded for anything worth while,
but we can at least have our dreams :(
no problem
we’re actually playing much better w/o that anything that we could get would be nothing but a bless to this team
this maggette is the worst thing ever to happen to this team, he makes Al Harrington an instant all-star
=Gaucho=
al has been an all star in nyc so far....
way to coach him don
if marcus williams could shoot...
if Biedrins can hit threes….
if Cj could throw an inbounds pass…
- and could run the break
- and ddnt look like speedy claxton
if jackson can dribble…
if Azubuike could pass…
if Maggette could hit a jump shot….
if brandan wright/randolph could gain 20 lbs…
if Monta ddnt ride the moped…
if Baron ddnt leave…
if Gore ddnt get cheated….
warriors dont fish they hunt!
by VonteegoCummings on Dec 13, 2008 9:03 PM PST reply actions
If Marcus Williams could shoot...
He’d be CJ Watson.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 14, 2008 10:33 AM PST reply actions
that's not true
he’s also left-handed…kinda throws a wrench into it huh
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
he’s also left-handed
maybe he should shoot right handed? works for CJ
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 15, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
precisely what i was getting at
you read my mind
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
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