In the immortal words of Maximus Decimus Meridius, "Are you not entertained!?!?"
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 6:42 AM PST
64 comments
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You've got what you want. Marco's playing 20 minutes a game. Maggette is sitting. Randolph is getting playing time. Nellie's giving all you "But the young guys are so good!" fools exactly what you want. Guess what, they suck! We've lost 12 of 14 games. Kelenna is getting his 30 minutes a game. And they're not good, they suck.
So, I ask this question to all of you who've been clammoring for the young guys to get the PT they deserve: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!?!?!
I'd throw my sword, but you know... I don't have one and it's kinda hard to do over the internets.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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I voted
“No I’m not entertained, these guys suck.”
I don’t really get the point of your diary, though, DFB: it’s the vets (Jack, Craw, Maggs in particular) who have been sucking the hardest, while the kids — Wright, AR, Belinelli, Morrow — have done mostly pretty well in their paltry servings of PT.
I’d be much, much more entertained if the kids played a regular 25-30 minutes a night while Crawford, Maggette, Jackson, and Nellie were all exiled to a Roman outpost in Zucchabar.
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 16, 2008 6:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jax is injured and playing... poorly
Maggs is injured and sitting, but when he was playing, he was playing poorly. Crawford has overall played like Jamal Crawford, which isn’t that great to begin with. I’m certainly going to say that Maggs & Jax have been effected by their injuries.
Belinelli seems to have picked it up, and Marc Jackson said he was the best defender on the floor for either team in the game against Houston, and laughably he was right.
Randolph has been awful, in my opinion. He’s doing something spectacular one minute, like his putback against Houston, but then something completely inane the next, like his transition bounce pass out of bounds from half court through the teeth of the defense intended for Brandan Wright who was cutting away from the basket and would have had a tough time scoring anyways. His good plays are purely through athleticism, his bad plays are purely through egotism and stupidity. It’s going to be hard for him to break those habits, and his play is definitely NOT winning us any games right now.
The vets aren’t healthy, but my point is to point out that just like wishing for PoB, Keith Smart, or some other backup who’s close enough to the game to be on the radar, but far enough away to not show his suckage, there’s a reason Belinelli, BWright, AR, Hendrix, Morrow, etc. don’t see the court when there are other options. It’s not rocket science.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
randolph
You cant teach length or athleticism. And, its not hard at all to get over those purely ego-driven mistakes. Do you really think he’ll be playing the same way in 2 years? Let the kids develop while the old guys are stinking up the joint and we’re losing games in bunches.
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."
by GameSix on Dec 16, 2008 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he can develop in practice & scrimmages
until he stops jumping at every pump fake in scrimmages, why subject the team to this in games? he needs to break that habit before seeing court time. along with all his other bad habits.
example. if you’re working on changing your jump shooting form, the last thing you’re going to want to do is play a game, b/c in the pressure of the moment, your form is going to revert.
example. if you shoot fadeaways, but you’re trying to add a hook shot, you start in practice and hone it in scrimmages. no one is going to work on their development in games. when you catch the ball down low in a game, you’ll shoot the fadeaway that you trust. when a player makes the hook a habit in practice and has success with it, he’ll unveil it in a game. and you’ll have one of those “i didn’t know he could do that moments.”
playing games for Randolph just encourages his bad habits of which he has many. length and athleticism is nice, but i prefer players who have a feel for the game. obviously, Randolph doesn’t have that (yet).
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i prefer players who have a feel for the game. obviously, Randolph doesn’t have that (yet).
Actually he has it but he’s so young he don’t know what to do with it yet. With the right coaching I think he could develop into a pretty good player. Same with Morrow , different personality than Rudolf but good instincts and a sweet shot that can’t be taught. I’d keep both these two thru any rebuilding trade schemes.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 16, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we’ll have to agree to disagree.
i feel Randolph is like a guy who just started playing the game and is constantly just chasing the ball. he doesn’t let the game come to him, he forces his way into it. he’s more highlight than substance. he makes dribbling moves just to make them instead of to gain some sort of advantage. he’s got horrible decision making which players with feel for the game usually are goo at.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i feel Randolph is like a guy who just started playing the game and is constantly just chasing the ball. he doesn’t let the game come to him, he forces his way into it.
No argument with your points but Rudolf has a motor that can’t be bought and the desire to use it. just like Morrows sweet shot these are rare assets. and should be channeled into productive play.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 16, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fair points
if he has that motor in practice, i’m sure he’ll come around eventually.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he can develop in practice & scrimmages
yes, he’s better served developing in practice but there’s a big difference between practice and a game.
For one, he’s going against Brandan Wright and Kurz on practice. He can own them all day and then step into the court and suddenly see himself outmatched.
He needs game time experience. He needs to learn the value of every possession, that you can’t block everybody in the league, etc. I think that while those things should be taught in practice, they’re best learned in game situations.
Another point is, this team is far from being competitive. I can understand not playing him if it means costing the Warriors games. But he’s not costing us any games because it seems like we’re gonna lose on most nights whether he plays or not.
I’d rather pour as much minutes I can to him and Wright until Monta comes back. See if they really are not ready to contribute this year. We’re not gonna win many games until Monta comes back so why not play all the youngsters and really see who can perform during a game and who cannot. Since playoff is not our goal this year. Rest Jackson, rest Maggette. Then start over when Monta comes back.
Use this time to really evaluate if the likes of Randolph and Wright can consistently help the team now or if they need another year or two.
by lightz0ut on Dec 16, 2008 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Your insistence on invoking the specter of the POB as proxy for Wright, Rudolph or even Belinelli and Morrow is just silly; it kind of undermines everything else you have to say on the subject. No one here ever realistically thought POB had potential to be a good pro, as outside of like three plays in summer league, he never really showed anything but suck. By contrast: Wright already is a good pro, Belinelli and Morrow have shown many flashes of being solid rotation players, and Randolph, for all the crazy chicken-with-head-cut-off antics, has shown real flashes of eye-poppingly outrageous talent.
And if you’re not convinced by anecdotes, check out their pro-rated numbers (per 36 minutes) so far this season:
B.Wright — 16.7 pts / 8.1 reb / 2.4 blk / 61% fg / 1.0 to / 20.5 PER
Belinelli — 17.4 pts / 3.7 reb / 2.8 ast / 1.5 stl / 50% fg / 1.5 to / 16.0 PER
Morrow — 17.4 pts / 5.7 reb / 1.1 stl / 44% fg / 90% ft / 1.0 to / 16.2 PER
Rudolph — 16.0 pts / 11.7 reb / 2.7 blk / 40% fg / 3.9 to (ugh) / 13.2 PER
These are actual numbers: outside of Rudolph’s carelessness with the ball, all of these guys have been reliable and productive (and Wright has been flat good). I didn’t have to “project” or mention the word “potential” — though given their tender ages, the overwhelming likelihood is that they’ll all improve … possibly marginally, possibly drastically.
Also: Top 5 Warriors by Roland rating:
1. Morrow
2. Belinelli
3. Watson
4. Kurz
5. Wright
Moreover, what other options do we have? Do you have an alternative proposal to playing the kids regularly, or do you just want to poke fun at fans who look at our current situation and see that as our wisest and most entertaining plan of action?
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 16, 2008 8:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Dubs Fan, our young guys are not all the same.
I still don’t believe in Marco, don’t believe in Morrow. Don’t believe in Kurz. And ’Buike’s limits have been exposed.
On the other hand, while Randolph is a spaz, we play a bit better when he’s in, due to his length and energy. Watson, as bad as his defense can be, has been a genuine asset. And Brandan Wright has been consistently excellent… the only Warrior who’s outplaying him is Biedrins.
Saying “toldyaso, the kids suck” is pretty simplistic. Some of the kids don’t suck, and we do play better when they’re in. And the vets have been the worst players on the team… they have continued to drag us down, even with the recent shifts. Maggs has a legitimate excuse, and Jack sort of does, but they’re still a huge reason why we’re 7-18… the biggest reason, as the on-court talent goes.
There are obvious things Nellie could do to improve our performance, and he hasn’t done them yet. Until he does, your point holds zero water.
by onlxn on Dec 16, 2008 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
good points, but
if we took out garbage minutes, how would the young guys +/-’s fair?
only change that’ll lead to closer games is more Turiaf, less Crawford.
in the likely categories: more Wright, no Randolph. more Beli, less Kelenna. (though i wonder how long it’ll be before team’s see that Beli likes to go left and if you force him right, he tends to take a fadeaway jumper.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
These are actual numbers
No, 7 wins-18 losses is actual.
“do you just want to poke fun at fans who look at our current situation and see that as our wisest and most entertaining plan of action?”
If it gets us a high lottery pick then it’s entertaining.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 16, 2008 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For sure
7-18 is the bottom line. And it’s the vets way more than the kids who are responsible. They’re not playing D, rebounding, or hitting their shots (except at the FT line). Craw and Jack shot 9-31 combined last night, while Rashard Lewis and Jameer Nelson, the guys they were meant to be guarding, went off for 53 of Orlando’s 109 points.
We’re getting a lottery pick either way. Playing the kids should be a no-brainer at this point. The only reasonable argument against it is that it might depress the trade value of our JackCrawMag three-headed albatross. If inflating the vets’ trade value is Nellie’s secret motivation for playing them all at the expense of the kids, good for him. My guess: he isn’t nearly that rational.
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 16, 2008 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess: he isn’t nearly that rational.
Maybe, maybe not? Look at it this way… Kurz scores 20 points in a game, next game do you play him to win or do you bench him to lose? Wright a few minutes in the 4th? Jax hurt and lots of minutes? See a pattern?
I’m not sure tanking to get a better draft would help Nellies win total as much as just going for wins this year but maybe he has it in a computer somewhere and the odds are better if he gets a top pick this year?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 16, 2008 10:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"If it gets us a high lottery pick then it's entertaining"
Outside of Oklahoma’s Blake Griffin, and even he has a ways to go (his FT% is terrible), I see no collegiate or international player coming into the Association with an NBA ready game. The Warriors could use a power 4, but they could also use an upgrade at the 1 (specifically a passing pg with good perimeter defense), and another 5. In order to even get a feasible shot at Blake Griffin The W’s would have to be worse, record wise, than the Thunder, which I’m not sure even with the Warriors playing as poorly as they currently are can do (Warriors are on pace for a low 30 win season, while the Thunder are on pace for a single digit win season) IF they have a shot to draft Griffin I think it’s 50-50 that they tab him with the pick. I like his game, but I really don’t think the Warriors need to get any younger at this point.
The G’s are gonna to get into the lottery, and that is not being defeatist it’s being a realist (extrapolate the numbers through the rest of the season and we are a low 30 win team at this point, and I don’t think adding Monta will be much of a boost. He’s going to have to learn his new teammates, and vice versa), but it’s not something the Warriors should resign themselves to. Coaches play their vets heavy, and rookies sparingly because thier jobs are defined by the win-loss column. That’s the way in most sports. Young players develop their game not in game situations but in practice. More to the point they develop their games in COLLEGE practice.
on a side note, I’d love to make it into the playoffs for various reasons but especially because we still owe the Nets a lottery protected pick from the Marcus Williams trade.
by fuller over bryant on Dec 16, 2008 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I wrote and re-wrote a response, but every time it was a jumbled mass of frustration that people were expecting great things from everybody and that they are still defending the youngsters. Do you really think that a lineup of CJ/Morrow/Belinelli/Kurz/Wright with Randolph coming off the bench would have a chance at beating any team not named after our ex-mascot? Do you really think that those guys are not getting all but ignored by opposing teams in preparation? Do you really think they’d stand a chance against me/Jax/Crawford/Maggs/Biedrins… OK, but if you take me and replace me with THud, it’s no contest.
Yes, I’ll give you that Wright is pretty good. But he hasn’t played well with Biedrins, and thus hasn’t gotten PT.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The CJ/Morrow/Belinelli/Kurz/Wright is another perfect example of your exaggerating for effect. Is anybody suggesting we should bench Biedrins for the sake of a youth movement? Is anybody hyping Kurz as someone who should start? Is anybody suggesting that Azubuike should slot behind both Marco and Morrow on our depth chart?
And Wright has played extremely well with Biedrins. The idea that they can’t play together has been pretty much disproven at this point. Watch the games.
by onlxn on Dec 16, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, I'll give both teams Biedrins, even though he sucks at the roland rating
CJ/Morrow/Belinelli/Wright/Biedrins vs. Nelson/Jax/Crawford/Maggs/Biedrins, the second line up still wins. Sure, I exaggerate sometimes, but I still have a point. Are you saying that we should ignore the Roland rating because it doesn’t support your assertion? I understand that it wasn’t your statistic, but if Sleepy wants to use certain things to back up his opinion, I will certainly feel free to poke holes in the evidence that he uses.
On Biedrins & Wright, their +/- numbers haven’t been very great, they have somewhat similar skillsets, and neither of them would be considered an offensive threat, a no-no in Nellie’s book. Between the last two years, Wright/Biedrins are -42 in 215 minutes. not the worst (and not a very large sample size), but certainly not the best. (http://www.82games.com/0809/0809GSWP.HTM, http://www.82games.com/0708/0708GSWP.HTM). Explain what you mean by “Wright has played extremely well with Biedrins”.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you're looking at it wrong
At the moment, either lineup could not find a way to win against most teams in the league. Don’t pit them against each other, pit them against other teams.
The first lineup is too inexperience to win. The second is too selfish, too hurt to win.
So why not play the inexperience lineup more so that when Monta comes back and the hurt, veteran players are rested and hopefully healed we can mix and match that lineup for a better chance to win.
by lightz0ut on Dec 16, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not suggesting that we ignore the Roland ratings at all… after all, I agree with Sleepy’s general assertion, that the young guys are playing better than the old guys. I’m suggesting that it’s silly to take those rankings as a literal lineup. Sleepy wasn’t saying that, and you know he wasn’t.
But for the hell of it, you wanna talk CJ/Morrow/Belinelli/Wright/Biedrins vs. Nelson/Jax/Crawford/Maggs/Biedrins? The second group’s probably better when healthy, but not by much. CJ > Nelson, of course… Biedrins = Biedrins. Morrow does many fewer good things than Jack, but many fewer bad things, too… based on what I’ve seen of Morrow so far, I wouldn’t say matching him up against Jack would cost you more than eight points per 48. I don’t think much of Marco, but he’s a lot closer to Crawford than most here would care to admit — he’s just as good of a passer, just as horrible of a defender, probably a better rebounder. Maggs vs. Wright? I like Maggs more than most, but that’s no blowout. Maggs wouldn’t have a much easier time defending Wright than vice versa. The first team would score a bit better and rebound much better. I’d only pick the second team to win because of Jack’s defense, and even that hasn’t been great lately.
The first team is probably a 15-67 team. I mean, it’s a horrible, horrible team. The second team is, what, a 24-58 team? You want to go to war with that crap, fine. I’ll take the 15-67 team with a future.
As for Wright and Biedrins… Wright plays extremely well alongside Biedrins because Wright plays extremely well alongside Biedrins. Watch the games. And look at the numbers you posted… Biedrins’s plus-minus alongside Wright this season is better than his plus-minus alongside Crawford, Maggette, Jack, Azubuike or Randolph… about as good as his plus-minus alongside Watson. The only Warriors with better plus-minus numbers alongside Biedrins who’ve really played at all are Morrow, whose numbers are still extremely strong, and Turiaf, because playing two big guys at the same time is a good idea.
Look at the numbers. Conventional, Roland, plus-minus, PER… any numbers you want. Andris Biedrins is good. Brandan Wright is good. They play well together. Will they play so well together that they could propel us to the playoffs? Of course not. But they play better together than most combos on our team. The idea that we should limit Wright’s minutes because of a fear of this combo is ridiculous.
The hell with skill set talk, and the hell with Nellie’s book… Wright and Biedrins should be out there together. We’re a bad enough without relegating our good players to the bench for stupid reasons.
by onlxn on Dec 16, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn i just realized but, we probably have the most D-League/nondrafted players of any roster in the NBA:
CJ, Kelenna, Kurz, Nelson, Morrow.
At the same time you can look at it as finding gems among the pile of rocks…but on the other hand you can look at it as poor drafting. No way do the best teams in the NBA have this many non-drafted players logging this many minutes.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Dec 16, 2008 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ppl are skewed towards the young guys
i think while you’re more lenient with their mistakes and overlook them. you’re focused in on the vets ones. AR alone is Jack x10 in terms of blunders and he’s not the one team’s gameplan for. Morrow is much worse than even CJ at getting around screens. he’s near useless if his shot is falling. when Beli makes a head scratching pass, no one cares. when Wright misses an easy lay up no one posts angry comments like they do at the vets.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Naturally
Fans cut the 19-21 y.o. kids more slack, since they can and likely will improve at least a bit — viz. Monta and AB — whereas once a player is age 24 or 25 what you see is pretty much what you get. The thing is, you don’t even have to cut the kids any slack to want to see them play more: they’ve flat been playing better than the vets, with no grading curve, and it’s not that close.
IIRC, evil monkey, aren’t you the guy who likes to cite smallish-sample-size unadjusted plus/minus numbers as they relate to Baron Davis and the Clips? By that same measure, the three worst rotation players on the Warrors are — you guessed it — Jackson (-7.8), Maggette (-5.4), and Crawford (-16.6!!!)
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 16, 2008 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me go tear a ligament in your hand and rip a hole in your hamstring
And then let’s see how you play basketball.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re being deliberately obtuse at this point. Nobody’s saying Jack and Maggette are bad people for sucking so far… nobody’s saying they don’t have excuses. The point is that they have sucked so far, and they have dragged us down far more than any of the young guys.
Your point is “LOL, the kids suck, which is why we’re losing.” The counterpoint is that the older guys were and are the main reason we’re losing (well, Nellie is, but as players go). Jack and Maggette’s injuries do nothing to change that.
by onlxn on Dec 16, 2008 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I definitely wouldn’t be taking 14 shots a game that’s for sure.
by belilaugh on Dec 16, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re losing because
A. Jack/Maggette and Crawford are taking a majority of the shots. That’s okay if they can make them at a decent %, but…Jack and Crawford have always been known to be volume shooters. Not specialist, efficient shooters, but chuckers.
B. Maggette stops ball movement all-together. He’s a one dimensional player who only looks to score. He doesn’t rebound particularly well, does not play any defense, and does not look to make the extra pass.
C. We lack the right mentality to play defense. We can’t guard the pick and roll. Our guards get lazy and fail to fight through a screen. We switch too much. We only have one legit big out there at a time to get a defensive rebound.
D. The young guys are outplaying the vets. Hands down, you can see it on TV, you can look it up at 82games.com. Even before the injuries to Jack and Maggette, we still played no defense, Jack still shot under 45%, and Maggette was still a single mentality player.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on Dec 16, 2008 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
by now everyone on the dubs should know that when the ball goes to maggs
they should just go crash the o-board! Think of all the second chance possessions !!!
we’re regally screwed
by hardcore on Dec 16, 2008 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough...
…although if you only tear the hand, I’ll just keep shooting and insisting I’m fine.
by Zack Vank on Dec 16, 2008 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you high on angel dust ;-)
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
puhleaze
team’s don’t gameplan for them. they do for the above. none of those guys, like Gortat for Orlando are pinpointed. none draw double teams. as Jackson is finding out, being the #1 is exponentially different than being the #3 guy, let alone the #7 or 8 guy. the vets killed the kids in the scrimmages by 20 (w/ Al instead of Crawford) and weren’t even trying.
Jack & Maggette don’t play in garbage time when the other team let’s their guard down. we all know Crawford’s been a disaster. but for the most part, no ones talking about him or his playing time.
+/- is ineffective for guys who play in garbage time. that’s why you see heavy fluctuations for guys like POB or Wright or any role player who plays spot minutes one year vs another year.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gameplan Schmameplan
You actually think opposing coaches rack their brains trying to figure out how they’re going to stop Stephen Jackson? If you’re going to cite plusminus numbers for a starter like BD, you also have to live with them for JackMaggsCraw. So far this year, those have been our three worst players, hands down.
Brandan Wright hasn’t seen much fluctuation at all in his numbers: he was efficient as an 18 y.o college Freshman in one of the toughest conferences in the country, he was efficient as a 19 year-old, and he’s been really efficient as a 20 year-old in whatever table scraps of PT Nellie has seen fit to give him. Why should I think proven mediocrities like Jackson and Crawford are better players? ’Cos they scowl better?
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 16, 2008 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well if you're going to disregard that factor, then that's the end of the discussion
i think it’s important and would encourage you to factor that into your judgments in the future. for me, even in college, it was a lot different between fresh & soph year when i had a guy waiting strictly for me after i got by the 1st defender (which they do to Jack).
i wonder how the young guys +/- would fair minus garbage time? it’d probably be where Jack and Maggette’s are.
like i said above
only change that’ll lead to closer games is more Turiaf, less Crawford.
in the likely categories: more Wright, no Randolph. more Beli, less Kelenna. (though i wonder how long it’ll be before team’s see that Beli likes to go left and if you force him right, he tends to take a fadeaway jumper.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, I'm sure it's a factor
And I’m sure the hand injury is a factor too. But I’ve been pretty consistent in thinking that Jack, much as love him personally, is the 4th or 5th best guy on a really good team. (Even when people here were fantasizing retroactively about our own “Big Three” of BD/Jack/Garnett, I was like, “dude… Stephen Jackson is no Ray Allen.”)
I think I agree with your overall assessment, tho’ (if not the certainty with which you state it). If the goal is straight winning: more Turiaf and Wright, less Jack and Craw, and no Randolph. But if the goal is pure entertainment (the subject of this diary, after all): give us Rudolph, Rudolph, and more Rudolph!!!!
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 16, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
heh yeah. i thought you were arguing not only is it entertaining, it’s more conducive to wins.
imo, while playing some of the young guys over others (Wright & Beli over Randolph & Morrow) is (conducive to wins), throwing them ahead of guys like Turiaf & Maggette is not. even though i’m a stated “i hate Maggette’s game” guy. i know there is great value in fooling the refs.
i never was a Crawford advocate either. hell, as skeptical as i am about MWill’s game, i’d rather see him consistently get 10-12 of Crawford’s minutes. Crawford’s closer to a Jason Terry type sixth man, who if shooting well is a plus (probably why the Knicks were semi winning) – if not is a minus (see us). and obviously Terry’s a much better shooter, can’t imagine he’s as airheaded a defender, but i don’t watch a lot of him.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you saying that just like the Mavs
Who got the wrong Jason (Terry not Kidd), we got the wrong Jamal (Crawford not Tinsley)? Bad joke. Jamal is… well, a duplicate of what we’ve already got in Spades, or Hearts (Monta/Jax/Maggs is quality, but not top notch quality). We needed either a PG or a PF for Al, and we got another SG. I may not hate his game, but I’m convinced that hanging onto Al until at least the trade deadline would have been the prudent thing to do.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I wouldn’t just completely reject the garbage time data. It’s less important than the competitive stretches, but it’s not irrelevant.
We consistently outscore our opponents in garbage time. When a team does that, it’s generally not random… it means that somebody on the garbage-time detail is probably good enough to get some real minutes. That’s how Monta started to get on the map… the team realized that he always made stuff happen in garbage time, and therefore deserved a little more of a look.
Our bench guys are consistently succeeding against other bench guys. Does that mean much? Maybe not. But considering that our starters are getting absolutely murdered by other starters, I think it’s reasonable to get a better sense of what the Wrights and Morrows can do.
by onlxn on Dec 16, 2008 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, i didn’t mean disregard garbage time – if i wrote that, i apologize for miscommunicating – i was saying it skews guys like CJ, Wright, Morrow & AR’s +/- numbers.
if Jack or Maggette were playing during that time, we’d probably win garbage time even more handily or at least as much and their +/- #’s would look a lot better.
that’s all i was saying in regards to that.
by the evil monkey on Dec 16, 2008 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
NBA Coaches and scouts don’t game plan. They’re just looking for free agent talent. Are you serious? I’ll submit this to you:
“I’m not going to lie; I was excited to play, to be starting the game,” Gortat said. “Competing against Andris for 27 minutes was exciting, too. I had a straight message from coach, which was to take him out of the boards and get as many rebounds as I could.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=281215009
Teams don’t gameplan. Give me a break. You know who he was playing with as a 18 YO on UNC? Tyler Hansbro. “Box him out! Box him out! Don’t let Hansbro beat us!” And Brandan Wright is the best of the youngin’s. Let’s not even talk about Belinelli and Randolph.
What’s your over/under on a 3v3 game to 11 between Wright/Randolph/Belinelli and Jackson/Maggs/Crawford?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet even with their injuries Jax/Maggs/Crawford would take 8 of 10 games
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maximus Decimus Meridius
Marcus Aurelius was Commodus’ father. I had to do it. That’s one of my favorite movies.
by SPREEE4THREEE on Dec 16, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I apologize
Duly noted.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 16, 2008 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel the major reason to go to Warrior games is to watch the opposing players. I’m an NBA fan too and I want to see the best play.
by Fantasy Junkie on Dec 16, 2008 9:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
plus i like to see when the dubs actually push themselves to compete with better teams. makes for super entertaining games when they keep it close.
by Dr. Orpheus on Dec 16, 2008 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I'm entertained, and I like seeing the young guys out there.
Hasheem "The Dream" Thabeet or Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
by ejdacanay on Dec 16, 2008 10:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Warriors will ALWAYS entertain me, regardless of how bad they’re losing by. No matter how bad we’re doing, I will always make an effort to watch the game either at the Roaracle or on TV. I always seem to have hope, no matter how bad we’re doing, but the team is usually very quick at shooting down my hopes, but I don’t care cause I’m no bandwagoner like alandoeezy and will watch my team through the good and the bad. GO DUBS!
WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...
by JustSomeName on Dec 16, 2008 10:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm entertained. Yes
I’d rather see us lose with this Line up
Marco/CJ
Morrow
Randolph
Wright/Turiaf
Beans/Kurz
Than this lineup and see Maggs try to get his 30 points and jack shooting 1-10
Crawford
Bukie
Jack
Maggs
Beans (I like Beans but he is exhausted if the line up is like this)
I will always be your fan JRich. Good Luck
by chili01 on Dec 16, 2008 11:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
im not entertained, i voited other because
i could easily be entertained if we started:
randolph/wright/beans/craw/(morrow/belli)
so we can get some time before ellis comes back for them to really get quality play time
by DeepS on Dec 16, 2008 11:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm entertained at times...
and nearly sickened at others. There’s so much going wrong with this team. This team struggles just to play as a team. Sometimes we get to see flashes of them playing as a team, and it looks good. But when Buike, Jackson and Maggette are all on the floor together its really frustrating to watch them use up the shot clock trying to drive and force things. I’ve seen a lot of bad warrior teams, and this is one of the worst I think, maybe not talent wise, but as a team. How about this question, could our starters now beat our starters when we had j rich, dun murph, fish and foyle? I really doubt it, and thats sad.
"Maybe I need somebody that can save me from the parts of myself that keep making me crazy" -Slug-
by drizztismoneybaby on Dec 16, 2008 3:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Depends on who our starters are and how healthy they are. I’d take CJ/Jack/Maggette/Wright/Biedrins over Fisher/J-Rich/Dunleavy/Murphy/Foyle if Jack and Maggette are 100%. Insanity like CJ/Crawford/Jack/Morrow/Biedrins… yeah, probably not.
by onlxn on Dec 16, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Saw your Hiero logo...
Download SOM’s new single “Tourstories” its gotta nice beat to it, kinda feels like Cab Fare! Made me feel all good inside! (its a free download, enjoy!)
http://www.thebigplayback.com/2008/12/14/souls-of-mischief-tour-stories-free-downloadable-single/
by Tony.psd on Dec 16, 2008 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks!!
you gotta love the souls, one of my first cds was 93 till infinity and i still have it, it barely plays but its still one of my favorites…And i can honestly say if it werent for that cd i wouldnt be making hip hop today. I’ve been doing it for 5 years now, and its the best. I’ve done shows in Fresno, L.A., San Jo, Merced, and lots in Modesto where I’m from. If anyone wants to hear some hit me up at drizztofeld@hotmail.com and I can send you a couple songs.
"Maybe I need somebody that can save me from the parts of myself that keep making me crazy" -Slug-
by drizztismoneybaby on Dec 17, 2008 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You totally stole this from me!
I linked the video in a post reflecting the same message a month or two ago.
by sam23 on Dec 16, 2008 5:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Must have missed it.
My apologies.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 17, 2008 1:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
kidding
I didnt really think you stole it from me, obviously. You know what they say about great minds anyway…
by sam23 on Dec 17, 2008 2:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That they think counter to the rest of the world?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 17, 2008 7:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think your posting sucks
It was a good try, but in the end it was yet another negative post.
We should start calling this forum “Negative State of Mind”. There is nothing Golden about these forums lately.
Just a bunch of whiners.
by sjboy on Dec 17, 2008 8:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
maybe you havent been watching the team. Tough to all upbeat when the team is this horrible. Seems like theres been as much whining abou the whining as there has been whining about the awful state of the team.
by sam23 on Dec 17, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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