I'm sick of it.
I am sick of all these Warrior fans complaining. I'm sick of the negativity. I am not at all sick of the Warrior team and organization itself, maybe a little upset but nothing else. Too many Warrior fans, especially GSoM'ers are riding:
It's extremely ridiculous calling the current squad and how they play disgusting or pathetic. The way I see it is that most Warrior fans set their sights too high, even with Baron's departure and Monta's injury, with many people claiming playoffs and even being high playoff seeds. Realistically, we did not look like a playoff team coming out of the off-season, yet we want them to be that. Realistically we looked like a 30-52 team. Tack on smaller injuries from Jackson, C-Mag, Wright, and Randolph and you have a recipe for a bad season. This season, in my opinion, was never meant to be a playoff season, its a rebuilding season, in which we MUST groom our youth. We are the youngest team in the league and they need our support, support from the fans and to me it's stupid to be labeling the squad as disgusting and pathetic. This team is alot better and has alot more potential than what we had post-TMC era and pre-We Believe era in which we won an average of 28 games in 12 seasons (332 total). I don't know if you guys were around through that stretch of bad basketball, but I was still supporting the team through thick and thin, through the bad weather. This young team needs support and losing the fan base will further impede what looks like a bright future, so do the right "fan" thing to do and support our young team.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
12 recs |
155 comments
Comments
awsome post! Post of the year right here^^^^
by squadmog on Dec 17, 2008 2:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The reason people are uspet
is because we should still be in the We Believe Era but stupid management decisions have pushed as back another 2-3 years.
by reppin510 on Dec 17, 2008 2:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I know
It’s frusterating but you have to move on. what good will it do to whine about it?
by rainman120 on Dec 17, 2008 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
.
Let’s move on and casually accept how bad the Warriors are, when the fact is that we were a damn playoff team only 2 seasons ago.
Oh wait, I know.
“Everything happens for a reason. God has a special plan for this team. So if we’re in a bad situation right now, have faith, because everything happens for a reason”.
yeah, right.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
especially
SINCE DON NELSON IS STILL OUR COACH.
We sucked before the We Believe movement because we had a bunch of coaches that didn’t know what to do. Once we finally got Nellie, his system helped guys like Baron, Monta, Barnes, Jackson, Biedrins etc. play at a great level.
Look at the way we’re playing right now. People are mad because it’s only been TWO SEASONS since we were THIS team:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDwBEnOOJ7Y
You’re telling me that all of us waited 12 damn seasons to make the playoffs, and you’re EXPECTING US to be HAPPY with ANOTHER rebuilding movement? wow.
We’re tired of losing. F*ck losing. We’ve already waited 12 years for a damn winning team, and when we go back to sucking you’re telling everyone to be content with it. WTF.
If we can’t be frustrated with this team NOW, then when the hell can we ever be frustrated with them? I see an obvious reason as to why fans are getting mad, it’s because the team sucks. The team is sucking when we all thought that the organization was going to make moves to make the team better.
I seriously hope this team goes on another playoff drought now. So all the hippie Warriors can enjoy all the sucking. If you’re so content with the Warriors losing, then we might as well go on another playoff drought. Obviously those 12 years beforehand didn’t affect your desire to WIN.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
my bad
the post wasn’t directed to reppin510
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that doesn't mean
you fire the coach and trade every player. come one now.
by HoLdEmUP on Dec 17, 2008 8:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
i’m not one of the people who want to do all that, haha. i’m being patient as well, it’s just that i’m being frustrated at the same time (not sure if that’s even possible). It’s like, i’m waiting for this team to get better, but I get mad when they lose. I’m weird.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 18, 2008 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do
you really think that every team is destined to make the playoffs every year? Or to be good every year? Do you think we can do it with our best player injured, a very inexperienced team, other nagging injuries, and with a system that has never won the gold? I don’t think so.
You’re expecting too much, way too much out of a team that got shell shocked in the off-season. It’s obvious that everyone wants to win, but you can’t expect a team to win when they don’t have the right equipment. It’s like asking the Canada to start a war with America and expect to win. If something is not capable of winning then it’s just not capable, simple as that.
Also, don’t put words into my mouth, no where in my post did I say everyone has to be happy or content about the situation, I’m simply stating stop being negative and support our youngsters, we don’t want to have another Dunleavy on the roster. This team has many problems, there’s no denying it. I didn’t want Nelson or Sjax extended, I know the front office is not adequately performing, I knew the C-Mag signing was bad one. This team also has bright spots, high ceiling players, young players that all have great shots of being good in the future.
If you want the team to be on a losing streak season, so be it, I’ll still be here after those 12 years cheering them on. That’s your opinion. I’ll also take your cheap insults in which you sarcastically say I have more wisdom then you all and I’ll also take your belief that I don’t want to win. Doesn’t matter to me. I’ll still be watching the Warriors 0-82, 82-0, 41-41.
A 12-Year Warrior playoff drought, 6 Years of Raiders in the abyss, and a Bond’s-Less Giants, hey what else can’t I take as a fan?
Hasheem "The Dream" Thabeet or Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
by ejdacanay on Dec 17, 2008 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Our team...
…plays the most pathetic defense I have ever seen ANY NBA squad trot out. Belinelli might be one of our best perimeter defenders, cause at least he seems to try. When a team can score 120 points and regularly lose, that’s disgusting. There’s no other word for it.
Don Nelson is going to become a bad joke unless he decides to emphasize defense. They shouldn’t be even playing offense in practice right now, they should be doing nothing except defensive drills on challenging shots, lateral movement, and halting ball penetration in the open court.
by Zack Vank on Dec 18, 2008 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Just think about it: The “We Believe” playoff Warriors could have easily been “The World is Watching” team of the NBA… they were that exciting. They strung together a wonderful 2nd half of a season and a great playoff run. Given time, they would have easily been a playoff team making minor adjustments to get better (ala the Kings of the late 90’s/early 00’s or the Mavericks and Suns of this decade). Both of those teams were run & gun as well, and were just a few moments away from the Finals and/or a championship. We could have easily pawned off Pietrus or Barnes to get Turiaf in return and still have a team of
Baron Davis
Monta Ellis
Jason Richardson
Al Harrington
Andris Biedrins
with a bench of Jackson, Pietrus/Barnes, Turiaf, Watson, Azubuike and maybe Randolph (he was falling in the draft… who knows how far he woulda fell in the first round) and whoever else would have been signed over the past two seasons. Sure looks like a small team, but the Mavericks survived with a core of Nash, Nowitski & Finley as a certified playoff team, and the Suns survived with Amare as their only “big” at 6’9-6’10". Even then they could have had pieces to trade to make this team bigger… oh what could have been.
You can’t basically change the entire roster and say “here’s a winning basketball team… and by the way… we’re also the youngest team in the league.” It simply can’t be done. Why we decided to rebuild after finally putting a winning team together is beyond me. It started with the Richardson trade and ended with Baron Davis leaving.
Despite all of this, I’ve endured worse Warrior rosters and coaches… I’ll definately still be here when the dust settles and the smoke clears. Oh how it feels to be a Warrior fan………
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 18, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We could not have kept that core together for financial reasons
BD – 18M (assuming he signs an extension)
JR – 12M this year
AH – 9M
SJ – 7M
Total – 46M/4 players
Monta + Biedrins? Probably have to give them close to what they’ve got to keep them.
Total – 66M/6 players
Rookie contracts (Marco, Wright, and Randolph) – 6M
Total – 72M/9 players
Wait… let’s just assume that BD takes an extension that pays him 11M this year instead of 18M.
Total – 65M/9 players
Now, explain how are you going to add anybody else. You’ve got zero cap space. Maybe you throw your MLE at Turiaf, but unless you’re counting on Matt Barnes taking a league minimum contract, you’re SOL and scraping the bottom of the free agent barrel. You’re not getting guys who want to win a championship, they’re still going to the Celtics or taking the money.
You’re line up is going to look like:
Guards: BD/Monta/JR/Jax/Belinelli
Forwards: Al/Wright/Randolph
Bigs: Biedrins
The rest are scrubs, D-League call ups, and old scrubs. That line up might be able to get by in the postseason, but they’re not winning a championship, and they’re sure as heck not making it through the regular season. Sure, if you could somehow bring Turiaf and this year’s Barnes back for next to nothing, but that’s not happening and they don’t make us a championship contender, just a solid playoff team. We’d still get killed by Utah, San Antonio, LA, and Boston (Probably Cleveland too) because we wouldn’t be able to defend their size.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 18, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We could not have kept that core together for financial reasons
We didn’t necessarily have to have Montay ,wright or Marco now? none of them contributed to our playoff success. We coulda kept the core 07 guys and tweaked the line up a bit by getting a big man for the times we need to play slower( or just utilize foyle with some play that suits his skils). We were certainly better off at the end of 06 or 07 than we are now even with no changes to that line up.We were even better off when Boom came and Montgomery was our coach, we had a great late season winning streak that year.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 18, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but we saw where that team went
with Monta. It would have gone nowhere without him. We actually had a better team last year than we had in 06-07. Bench depth was our downfall. Not a power forward, but bench depth. Nellie played 7 or 8 guys regularly. If that team had Turiaf, you would’ve seen a playoff team. Or if Nellie used Brandan Wright.
Nelly has wet dreams about starting Monta at center.
by StSaints408 on Dec 18, 2008 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
There were a lot of good leads in games during that season, Nellie had plenty of time to play the bench and it would have made the Warriors even more dangerous on offense.
Also, to be fair, the Warriors that we saw in the 2007 Playoffs only played 21 games together in the regular season. Those 21 games were the last games of the season, when the team was finally healthy and were 7 games under .500. Also they had the toughest remaining schedule in the league.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 18, 2008 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's better than our current cast of scrubs, d-league call ups and old scrubs...
Now with Baron… he negotiated a $13mil/yr deal… so lets take that into account.
We still had bird rights on Monta & Biedrins, so we could have signed a couple of people before Bird righting their asses back onto the squad. I’m perfectly fine with that…. because I’m living in a perfect world.
BD: $18 mil this year; $13 mil every year after
J Rich: $12 mil this year
Harrington: $9 mil
Jax: $7 mil
Beans: $10 mil
Monta: $11 mil… he probably wouldn’t get the extra one mil.
Belinelli: $2 mil (rounding up)
Buike: $3 mil (you could give this to a cheap big man if you’d like)
Randolph: $2 mil
Kurz (scrub): $600k
Watson (D-leaguer): $700k
Demarcus Nelson (scrub that was in the D League): $600k
Hendrix (D-leaguer who would have more of a role): $600k
It looks like we have a better core team w/ the same cast of bench players…. sans Turiaf… although you would be able to give him the MLE and just not pay Buike altogether. I’d rather have this team than our current team of scrubs… but that’s just me
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 18, 2008 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The total salary is just about $76 mil....
NBA luxury tax cap is about $71 mil… meaning that the Warriors would have to pay dollar for dollar on $5 mil of their salary… making the total salary $81 mil until Davis’s $13 mil/yr deal kicks in. I’m sure Cohen would pay that to have a playoff team he could jack the prices up on.
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 18, 2008 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And lets compare that to our current team
Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson, Andris Biedrins, Monta Ellis, and bench ($76 mil)
v.
Monta Ellis, Jamal Crawford, Corey Maggette, Stephen Jackson, Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright and bench ($67 mil)
I’d take team one 10 times out of 10… especially since team one already has that “chemistry” thing going. Chemistry is a must have.
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 18, 2008 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think everybody here would take team 1
My point was that team 1 isn’t getting past the Lakers, Spurs, Hornets, Jazz, or Suns, so you’ve got a middling playoff team at best that’s not getting any better and over the lux tax threshold. Even if you add Turiaf, you’re still not beating the quality teams that have two high quality bigs.
Your point seems to be that having BD, TMNT & JRich would be better than Maggette & Crawford. Well duh, ya think? Do you really think that team is capable of hanging with the big boys (pun intended)? That’s all if you can convince Cohan to dip into the luxury tax, which he won’t.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 19, 2008 6:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Look... upsets happen
Playoff revenue (and the potential for more televised games… which brings in additional revenue) should always be nice for the owner. Add that to whatever revenue fans would bring in with the purchase of jerseys and warrior related products because of an increase in exposure and popularity and that should be enticing enough for Cohan to dip into the luxury tax for a season…. With the product he has now, he is running the risk of less televised games and is guarenteeing himself that the Warriors won’t make the playoffs…
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 19, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All of that
Is all well and good in theory. And it’s easy to sit there as a fan and say “Yeah, of course playoff teams make more money.” But when you’re asking somebody to invest in the team, it’s a completely different story as there are significant risks to account for.
What happens if BD gets injured (like he has in the past)
What happens if the team gets figured out?
What happens if there’s a lot of competition for the playoffs? (48 wins wasn’t good enough)
What happens if they only make it to the first round?
Financially, there’s certainly incentives to make the playoffs, but according to the Jazz owner, each home team for each playoff game takes home ~1M and gives 45% to the league. (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/120157). So, losing in the first round nets 1-2M, second round losers get 2-4M, etc. Nice, but not that nice. Jersey sales, TV deals, those are all NBA things, negotiated by league personnel. The teams make very little money on any of that.
On the other hand, if you stayed under the luxury tax threshold last year, you got 3M (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q17), plus you didn’t have to pay the tax, plus you had a lower player cost.
Compare the Warriors (67M payroll) and the Pistons (73M payroll)
Warriors player costs = 67M (payroll) – Tax distribution (3M) = 64M
Pisons player costs = 73M (payroll) + 2M (tax) = 75M
That’s 11 million dollars. Going to 76M in player salaries makes the margin 17M. When making the playoffs is an uncertainty and getting to the playoffs only makes you ~500K for each home game, how do you justify risking 17M on the possibility that you don’t make the postseason if you don’t have a chance to make the finals?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 20, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree. That team was by no means a lock for the playoffs in future seasons… we had a great run to end the regular season, but going 16-5 in March and April, against a number of teams who are resting up for the playoffs, isn’t nearly as meaningful as some people here like to think it is.
That was a fun team. It was a decent team, maybe even a little better than decent. It was a team that absolutely wasn’t going to make the Western Conference Finals, and a team that frankly wasn’t likely to win another playoff series… the Mavs series was an unusual confluence of great elements for us. It was a team that probably would’ve made the playoffs, but was by no means a lock to do so.
That’s a fun team to have, especially for a star-crossed franchise like ours. But it’s not a team you preserve at all costs, financial and otherwise. If Cohan had gone into the luxury tax for that team, we very well might’ve missed the playoffs last season anyway, and then he’d be looking at really big luxury tax penalties for extending Monta and Biedrins.
Do I wish he’d just go for it and not worry about the tax? Sure. Every fan wants their owner to be Paul Allen, and to eat every penalty with a smile. But Cohan isn’t Paul Allen. He cares about the bottom line, and the bottom line told him that team wasn’t worth penalties. I think that’s defensible on his part. It’s one thing to dip into the luxury tax to keep a championship contender together… it’s quite another to dip into the luxury tax to keep a 45-win team together. The Wizards did that, and I don’t think they’re feeling too good about it right now.
Warriors fans are so desperate for magic that they’re willing to ascribe magic to that ‘06-’07 team. It’s understandable… that team represented the first parting of the clouds we’d seen in a long, long time. But that wasn’t a great team. It was just a fun, decent team. And the weirdest thing about that team wasn’t that it was broken up, but that it beat a #1 seed. That was a lovely aberration, not a sign of things to come.
by onlxn on Dec 21, 2008 2:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No WCF?
That team would have worked the Rockets and the Suns, imo.
And we’re not desperate for “magic”, we just want to WIN. Stop making it seem like we want something so unreachable. The Warriors were a winning team in 2007 and only played a couple of games with each other; we never got to see how good that team would have been if they stuck together and/or made moves to make the team better.
The Warriors were a playoff team that got broken up in an instant. Plain and simple. F*ck rebuilding.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This post will convince everyone that LOSING and REBUILDING is good
- The 2007 Warriors were not even that good. They scored a bunch of points with their talented players, but the scoring is irrelevant since it was done at the end of the season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C9D_qYrVA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlsbQKhJdR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_9c9vI6HjU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb3o25nIVx0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1eOK1UT6Mk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzfGj-MI5y0
- Watch those videos, now imagine how “good” the Warriors would have been if they had some type of a dominant inside presence. Sike, they would still suck. Even though the Warriors scored a lot back then, it was still a good thing to break them up, instead of putting a big man like KG/Pau etc on that team. Monta and Biedrins are the way to go!
- Baron is injury prone, even when he has a bunch of players that take pressure off of him. Even if the Warriors finally got a big man to solve their rebounding problems, Baron would still get injured.
- We have young players right now that we invested in. These young players will win us a championship when they go against LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Dwight Howard, Brandon Roy, Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose, Kevin Martin, Amare Stoudemire etc. when all those players are in their prime.
- Stephen Jackson, Corey Maggette and Jamal Crawford will keep us content for now, while we’re waiting on our young guys to become all-stars.
- Playoff teams don’t make as much money as you think they do, so why bother trying to make the playoffs anyways
- Even though we waited 12 seasons for a playoff team, we should wait even more because patience is a good thing and we should all learn how to use it. Getting frustrated is BAD.
Damn, there’s too much stuff on my list I can’t type it all. I’ll continue later.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re a little all over the map here.
- The ’07 Warriors might have had the nucleus of a championship team. They might have followed the 16-5 regular season end and playoff run with a 72-win championship season. They probably were just decent. They scored a lot of wins in March and April against teams that were sitting their best players, and they ran and coached the Mavs off the court. They then lost a series 4-1 to a team that then lost a series 4-1.
- The Warriors DID try to add a great big man, in Garnett… they didn’t have the pieces to do it. And if they had been able to do it, it would’ve required J-Rich, Monta and Biedrins… it would’ve completely gutted the “We Believe” team. The idea that “We Believe” plus a great big man was a possibility is ridiculous. You’ve got to sell the farm to get a great big man, and usually even that’s not enough.
- The loss of Baron, especially if $39 million over three was a possibility, was an enormous mistake. Nobody here disagrees with that. But there’s a difference between losing Baron and trading J-Rich. Which part are you mad about, exactly?
- Will our young players will us a championship against Lebron, Carmelo, Bosh, Paul, Wade, Howard and the rest? Almost certainly not. But they have a better chance of doing it than Baron, Jack, J-Rich and Al would. There’s reason to believe our young players will show more than they’ve shown; there’s no reason to believe the ‘07 core, apart from Andris, has their best days ahead of them. Baron’s having maybe his worst season ever, Jack’s defense has slipped… we’ve seen the best those guys could do.
- Nobody here is happy about Jack, Maggette and Crawford. The Jack extension was a mistake, the Maggette signing was mediocre at best, the Crawford addition was a horrible mistake. Many mistakes have been made, and this team is much worse than the “We Believe” nucleus would’ve been. That doesn’t mean that breaking up the “We Believe” team was the wrong move. It just should’ve been handled better.
If you think the team currently sucks, you’re a smart man. So does everybody else here.
If you think that we should’ve kept Baron, especially the price was decent, guess what? So do I.
If you would’ve been happy to watch the “We Believe” crew continue on, with a couple 45-48-win seasons, that’s your right. Certainly sounds kind of appetizing right now.
If you think the “We Believe” team somehow had championship potential, that’s your right as well. But there’s no reason whatsoever to think it’s true. We had health and magic on our side, we got the best stretch of coaching Nellie’s done in a decade, we got the best month of basketball Baron Davis has ever played or will ever play, and what’d we get out of it? A 21-11 run to finish the season. The absolute tippy-top best that team had resulted in a 21-11 run, much of it against bad and resting teams.
Things are bad enough without thinking we robbed ourselves of a title contender. We didn’t. We turned a kinda-good team into a kinda crappy team. That’s frustrating enough on its own… no delusions are needed.
by onlxn on Dec 21, 2008 6:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Out of curiosity
If you could magically recreate a team built around Baron-JRich-Jack-Harrington, how good do you think they’d be this year? 35-47? 40-42? Good teams are built around all-stars; and not one of those guys qualifies. BD is the only one even close to Top 5 at his position, and he seems to have regressed slightly. (Rajon Rondo is very likely a better PG than Baron Davis at this point). JRich seems like a great guy, but he’s so replaceable his crappy team had no problem dumping him for a couple of warm bodies. Jack and TMNT are … well, Jack and TMNT.
The 2006-07 Warriors were a pretty good team that got hot at the right time, got a room-service playoff matchup, and shocked a lot of hoops observers who hadn’t been paying attention to during their hot streak (I think the rest of us saw that the Mavs were soft and overrated and matched up poorly against us). Outside of the Bay Area, no one will remember that team as anything more than, as onlxn puts it, “a lovely aberration.” Plain and simple.
Fake edit, just to comment on this:
imagine how "good" the Warriors would have been if they had some type of a dominant inside presence.
This pretty much goes for every team in the NBA, no? The OKC Thunder, one of the worst teams ever, would likely be a 60-win team if they added Shaq in his prime.
Also, this:
Getting frustrated is BAD.
I don’t think anyone says that. I think Cohan and Rowell pretty much deserve all the venom and bile Warrior Nation can muster. But dwelling on the past — and a hypothetical alternate-universe present — is kind of BAD, for you own mental health if nothing else. Chill out and face forward a little.
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 21, 2008 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yay
Baron – Monta – Jackson – Harrington – Biedrins
48 Wins in a competitive Western Conference.
06-07 team had a bunch of injuries (J-Rich 2 months, Baron 3 weeks), 42 wins.
You can do your magical recreation youself, I aint gonna do that shit.
(>.)>
haha look, I just typed up a kirby. hahaha.
This pretty much goes for every team in the NBA, no? The OKC Thunder, one of the worst teams ever, would likely be a 60-win team if they added Shaq in his prime.
yawmp. Look at the 2007 Warriors, looks like they needed a couple more rebounds to me. They had a lot of good trading pieces too.
The 2006-07 Warriors were a pretty good team that got hot at the right time, got a room-service playoff matchup, and shocked a lot of hoops observers who hadn’t been paying attention to during their hot streak (I think the rest of us saw that the Mavs were soft and overrated and matched up poorly against us). Outside of the Bay Area, no one will remember that team as anything more than, as onlxn puts it, "a lovely aberration." Plain and simple.
Oh okay, Warriors are only relevant against the Mavericks. They play like a 14 win team against any other team. Warriors sucked so bad that year but they were magical against the Mavs. yay.
Umm, sooo this means that Warriors sucked anyways why bother making that 2007 team better. Sucking is the way of the Warrior, and we’re doing what is right as of now. Lets suck, lets argue against people who said we did something wrong when it comes to keeping that 2007 team.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
i suck at quote tags. XDDDD
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But you're the fastest draw in the West
at replying! ;-)
Seems like you agree that last year’s squad was better than the previous year’s. If your main point is that (1) the BD for Maggs “swap” was a crappy one for us, and (2) the Moped incident royally screwed us over, I totally agree with you.
Next topic.
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 21, 2008 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
I can’t believe you didn’t call me on my “Rondo>BD” comment. I stand by it 100%. It’s not really a knock on BD so much as a suspicion that Rondo is currently the best PG in the NBA not named CP3.
Actually, of all our past sins, picking POB over Rondo may be our most underplayed…
OBAMA AMABO
by Sleepy Freud on Dec 21, 2008 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
meh
that caught my eyes and i thought about it for a couple seconds, but i was like “whatever”. didn’t really feel like starting up a new argument.
Rajon Rondo is good. Some people say that playing with 3 all-stars puts a lot of pressure on him, but in my opinion he wouldn’t even be all that great without those 3. If teams focused their defense on Rondo like they do with Baron, I doubt Rondo would still be putting up great numbers and leading his team to victory.
You might be right, though. I’m not really in a total disagreement with you, Rondo is a pretty good point guard but only when he has the right players around him.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
uhh
i just finished typing up somewhat of a long semi-serious post before responding to yours. i wasted all my energy on that post that i didn’t have time to really get all serious towards your post. i decided to just type up random crap and clicked on ‘post’.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that we came close to beating the Jazz in two games, in a series we lost 4-1, isn’t proof that we were close to contending for a title… lest we forget, the Jazz themselves got flattened in the next round. We weren’t “a couple of rebounds” away from being a title contender. We were a good big man away. And that’s a long ways away.
by onlxn on Dec 21, 2008 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
true
Good point, I didn’t even think about the Jazz/Spurs. At the same time, at least it shows that the team could have went to the WCF.
Warriors tend to be called a fluke, since they beat the 6th best team in NBA history (regular season wise) but then lost to some random team in the next round. If the Warriors happened to beat the Jazz and moved on to the WCF, I wouldn’t have minded losing to the Spurs. San Antonio is a dynasty, better to lose to them than the damn Jazz. Oh well.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree
Our current team is not even 5 years away, because at that point we would finally start to have the cap room to build around whoever would be left over from today’s bad team… hopefully Monta & Beans. This current squad is not even a playoff bound team. I’m a fan that would rather have our team be a playoff team "getting lucky" to a championship…. because being a fan who’s just hoping for a win from game to game SUCKS!
What I’m saying is the 07 playoff team would have had a better chance at making the playoffs last year than the team who won 48 games… because Richardson would have made that much of a difference. They probably would have won a couple of the games we dropped in the beginning of that 0-6 losing streak, our players would have been better rested for a run down the stretch… a dream that I still revert to because its basically one of the only positives I can associate this team with at this point.
And with all of your talk about injuries to key players… isn’t that kinda like what happened with Corey Maggette… you don’t know if he’s gonna be injured… I’d rather have an injured Baron Davis than an injured Corey Maggette. And with our current squad and the Warriors financial commitment to it, there are none of the rest of those what ifs that you stated…. our only what ifs are "what if we didn’t sign Corey Maggette" or "what if we didn’t extend Stephen Jackson" or "what if we would have kept this a young team that was actually rebuilding instead of giving us just a team that was built to be redundant" etc etc.
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 21, 2008 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So...
You’re just whining about rooting for a crappy team?
Your post makes no sense in the context of any of the previous posts. You say “I don’t agree”, but what are you not agreeing with? You don’t say a single thing to justify why Cohan would be able to financially keep that team together, instead the point of this post seems to be that this current team sucks and that rooting for a playoff bound team would be nicer.
Well ggggggggREAT!!! Cohan would have had to pay through the nose to keep that team together and it wasn’t really that good in the first place. That year, they played to the peak of their performance in getting to the second round. They weren’t getting past that. The extra money Cohan would have needed to invest to get them to a serious contender would not have been worth it because he operates a business, unlike Mark Cuban who is just trying to win a championship at any cost. Go root for the Mavs if you like. Or try to convince the google guys to buy the team.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 22, 2008 6:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You should root for the Celtics
Look fan in Boston… I was not agreeing w/ what you had to say essentially. Onlxn agreed with what you said, and I stated I disagreed. Simple as that. I already stated potential reasons to keep the team together, which was predicated on making the playoffs. Sure the Warriors only get one mil for each home game, but that’s not counting revenue from ticket sales or consession stand sales. That one mil is directly from the league for the televised game. There are strong financial gains to be made from a playoff home game… and from building a strong fan base from a winning style of basketball.
As for the team not really being good in the first place, they only had half a season to play together. Even with all of the unknowns present, I’m going to say that the 07 playoff team would have made the playoffs in ’08 and would definately look better than our current cast of scrubs this season.
As for rooting for a crappy team… my loyalty to the Warriors run deep. If you were a bandwagoner for the “We Believe” Warriors and decided to stick around that’s great for you.
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 22, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's why you BUILD with that team.
You make that team better, not save money to re-sign youngsters.
The Warriors got outrebounded by 19.6 boards a game during that Jazz series, yet most of their losses were in CLOSE games.
- Stephen Jackson missed a three that would have tied the game in Game 1.
- Mickael Pietrus missed free throws that would have put the Warriors up 7 points with 50 seconds left to go in the game.
- After those missed free throws, Baron has an unforced turnover that gives momentum to the Jazz to catch up and win.
A couple defensive rebounds, and the Warriors would have been heading into Oakland with the series at 2-0 or 1-1.
Game 4, the Warriors had the lead but decided to not use the clock when they had a big lead. All of their losses were due to little things. Chris Mullin could have easily made some moves to improve that team.
Also, that 2007 team could have beaten the Suns, in my opinion. Nellie found the perfect strategy that made Nash almost irrelevant in Warriors/Suns games. I don’t feel like explaining it right now, though.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 19, 2008 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if only i knew what that meant
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 20, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Traded Player Excemption
from the JRich trade went completely unused during the next season – in short, agree with you that we had the ability to build upon that team even after trading JRich, and Wright not producing that year, by adding a player … water over the dam now
by hardcore on Dec 20, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh ok
I don’t know if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me. But yeah, I remember that, I thought that money would have helped to bring a good player on the Warriors.
I was fine with the Jason Richardson trade at first, because I thought it would be the first step into making this damn team even MORE better. Oh well.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mickael Pietrus missed free throws that would have put the Warriors up 7 points
That happened in Game 2. My bad, forgot to mention that.
So basically, Game 1 and Game 2 were basically up for grabs.
Like I said, a couple more defensive rebounds and 2 or 3 more made FT’s and the Warriors would have been heading into Oracle Arena with the series at 2-0 or 1-1, instead of 0-2.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 20, 2008 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, a couple more defensive rebounds and 2 or 3 more made FT’s and the Warriors would have been heading into Oracle Arena with the series at 2-0 or 1-1, instead of 0-2.
Yep, That’s been pointed out often over the last 2 years so someone has not been paying attention.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 20, 2008 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2007 team did beat the Suns that year
This year? Not so much. JRich notwithstanding, Amare & Shaq would own that team. They’d compile 60 points and 40 rebounds between just the two of them.
Yes, we almost won 2 games. Do you really think those two games were representative of a typical game between those two teams? You really think that Warriors team had a chance to win a 7 game series against the Jazz?
A couple defensive rebounds, and the Warriors would have been heading into Oakland with the series at 2-0 or 1-1.
That’s just it. Asking that Warriors team for a couple rebounds with Boozer, Okur, Harpring, and co. is far, far, far easier said than done.
And I’m talking about NOW, you’re all saying “you know, if that team had just been kept together, tweaked… like adding Turiaf, we’d be awesome now”. And I’m saying, “We’d make the playoffs, but that’s it. Second round if we’re lucky.” Also keep in mind that we got extremely lucky in going up against a spineless Mavs team who couldn’t get off the mat after that first punch to the mouth on their home floor. It was easily the best match up for us, and realistically, we only win 3 of 10 series played against the Mavs.
There’s no way that group of guys (BD/Jax/JRich/TMNT/Monta/Goose) competes with any of the top tier teams RIGHT NOW. Forget the past. Do you really think the team from the 2007 playoffs could be a championship contender in the NBA today? I say, no. Furthermore, I say that Cohan wouldn’t have opened the coffers to add more talent or he wouldn’t have traded JRich in the first place.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 20, 2008 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"We’d make the playoffs, but that’s it.
But that a heck of a lot better than this new group is doing.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 20, 2008 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's what you and I want
But we don’t have to pay the player salaries, or more importantly the luxury tax. See my newer post above.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 20, 2008 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But do you think that our current team is anywhere near a championship contender?
They’re not even 5 years away, because at that point we would finally start to have the cap room to build around whoever would be left over from today’s bad team… hopefully Monta & Beans. This current squad is not even a playoff bound team. I’m a fan that would rather have our team be a playoff team “getting lucky” to a championship…. because being a fan who’s just hoping for a win from game to game SUCKS!
And with all of your talk about injuries to key players… isn’t that kinda like what happened with Corey Maggette… you don’t know if he’s gonna be injured… I’d rather have an injured Baron Davis than an injured Corey Maggette. And with our current squad and the Warriors financial commitment to it, there are none of the rest of those what ifs that you stated…. our only what ifs are “what if we didn’t sign Corey Maggette” or “what if we didn’t extend Stephen Jackson” or “what if we would have kept this a young team that was actually rebuilding instead of giving us just a team that was built to be redundant” etc etc.
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 21, 2008 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yay
2007 team did beat the Suns that year
I know that, I meant to say that the Warriors could have beaten the Suns in the NBA Playoffs.
Yes, we almost won 2 games. Do you really think those two games were representative of a typical game between those two teams? You really think that Warriors team had a chance to win a 7 game series against the Jazz?
Umm, yes, I do think the Warriors had a chance to win a 7 game series against the Jazz; that’s why I pointed out how we almost won those first two games, it’s not like I pointed that out for shits and giggles.
Look at how much the Warriors got outrebounded, getting 2 or 3 more defensive rebounds or making 1-2 more free throws isn’t really that impossible.
That’s just it. Asking that Warriors team for a couple rebounds with Boozer, Okur, Harpring, and co. is far, far, far easier said than done.
Yet we still almost won those games regardless of the rebounding difference between the two teams. Which brings me to my point as to why I think the Warriors should have kept building onto that 2007 Playoff team. They needed someone who can help the team get 2-3 more defensive boards a game, that’s how much of a difference it can make.
And I’m talking about NOW, you’re all saying "you know, if that team had just been kept together, tweaked… like adding Turiaf, we’d be awesome now". And I’m saying, "We’d make the playoffs, but that’s it. Second round if we’re lucky."
And i’m talking about WHERE I THINK WE WENT WRONG, which leads to NOW. Because the fact is that we wouldn’t be sucking right now if we had made better decisions, it should already be obvious. Also, if we had actually tried making that 2007 team better, who knows how good the Warriors would be right now. I’d rather be in the playoffs right now than to be watching the team sucking it up again while having me actually being content with the losing. WTF, I didn’t wait 12 whole seasons for that kind of shit.
Also keep in mind that we got extremely lucky in going up against a spineless Mavs team who couldn’t get off the mat after that first punch to the mouth on their home floor. It was easily the best match up for us, and realistically, we only win 3 of 10 series played against the Mavs.
Oh, the Warriors were lucky to play a team that they lose 7 out of 10 times too, great. There’s a thing called “improvement”, management could have taken that 2007 Warriors Playoff team and actually give them a chance to get better and improve, instead of breaking them up to invest in Monta and Biedrins.
There’s no way that group of guys (BD/Jax/JRich/TMNT/Monta/Goose) competes with any of the top tier teams RIGHT NOW. Forget the past. Do you really think the team from the 2007 playoffs could be a championship contender in the NBA today?
You tell me to forget the past, and then you tell me to look at the 2007 team (who you’ve told me to forget about) and ask me if they can compete today? Wasn’t that a majority of the whole argument in the first place?
Yes, I think they would be a contender. You say they might be a 1st or 2nd round team, i’d rather have this team contending than to see them be a lottery team AGAIN. If the organization actually made moves with the intention of making that 2007 team better, then I seriously think the team would be a contender. They had the pieces to trade for a player to solve their rebounding problems, they had the right mix of veterans and youngsters (youngest team in the playoffs), and was capable of anything.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you think the BD/Jax/JRich/TMNT/Monta/Goose team is a contender
I’ve got nothing more to say. If you don’t understand what I mean when I say we got lucky to play the team we’d beat 3/10 times instead of the other teams against which we’d win 1/10 times… I’ve got nothing more to say.
Your belief that the 2007 team would win against the top tier teams now and my belief that they wouldn’t stand a chance is where we disagree. I think you’re a homer and that you’re wrong. You think… whatever you want to think. I’m not going to get in an argument with you on that. You’re entitled to your opinion.
If Cohan thought that BD/Jax/JRich/TMNT/Monta/Goose was a title contender, I’m sure he would have paid to keep it together. I think the fact that he didn’t keep them together pretty clearly shows that he didn’t think they were good enough.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 22, 2008 7:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well Cohan doesn't make much basketball sense at all...
He’s an owner who has obvioiusly had no nose for basketball talent. He approved the Maggette signing at 5 years/$50 million. Enough said.
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 22, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and we wouldn't have Wright...
He came in the J Rich trade.
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 18, 2008 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
$65M for 9 players
We’re roughly around $66M this year. And, brace yourself, nobody’s going anywhere. Well, at least not through Free Agency.
Add Watson, Morrow, Kurz to that lineup of yours and we’re spending $2M more than what we are spending now.
Sure that’s probably not championship material. But it definitely looks better than what we’re showing right now.
by lightz0ut on Dec 18, 2008 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Turiaf isn't eligible for
the MLE is he?
Nelly has wet dreams about starting Monta at center.
by StSaints408 on Dec 18, 2008 10:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Any player was eligible for the MLE
It would have fell right in there too…
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 18, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind.
I’m dumb. I was thinking about something else.
Nelly has wet dreams about starting Monta at center.
by StSaints408 on Dec 19, 2008 7:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me clear up my point real quick.
Ok, first of all, don’t think that i’m hating on you or your opinions. I just tend to overreact and attack other posters at times; I don’t know why I do it, I just do for some reason. So with that being said, I respect you for being mature and responding to my insults in a calm way instead of going crazy.
There are points that you’ve made that I do agree with. I don’t think we can pull off a successful season with injured players and an inexperienced team. But, the reason why I get mad at our losses is because of the WAY we lose. There were tons of games where I believe the Warriors could have done great (even with our depleted roster), but instead, they do the most frustrating things on the court that makes it seem like they’re playing at their absolute worse.
I know we have a bunch of D-League scrubs on our team. I still think we can win games, though. We are the youngest team in the NBA, but it doesn’t mean that we’re the least talented team. When you have Crawford, Jackson, Maggette, Azubuike, Turiaf, Biedrins etc. on your team (along with athletic players like Wright/Randolph), it’s already enough pieces to at least pull off wins against decent teams. All it comes to is how they use that talent on the court, and in this case the Warriors are playing like crap. My expectations are probably a little high, but it’s just that I look at this team and when I see a guy like Crawford score only 4 points against the Rockets, it gets annoying. I know the team can do better than that.
Also, for most fans, it’s not a matter of us expecting to win when we “don’t have the right equipment”.
Most of us are already aware that this team probably doesn’t have capability to win. In my opinion, the reason why they are mad, is because it was only 2 seasons ago when this team DID have the “right equipment”. It’s just the fact that this team went from a playoff team to a lottery bound team in the span of 2 seasons is what is probably the source for most of this “whining”. That’s the reason why I got mad when you suggested that us Warriors fans should be patient. We’ve already shown 12 YEARS of patience and had to go through crap until we finally got a WINNING and ENTERTAINING team. A team that made everyone happy. And then now, the Warriors “15 minutes of fame” are over, and we have to go through the same crap again.
Don’t get me wrong, the future does look bright. But in my opinion, we didn’t have to wait another couple years for Monta/Biedrins/Wright/Randolph etc. to develop; we already had a great team in 2007 to build on. Instead, the organization ended up making moves to start another rebuilding process; a rebuilding process to get us BACK to the playoffs, when we were already there 2 seasons ago.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 18, 2008 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
im pissed
cuz we wont play randolph/wright more…
otherwise id be happy
and also cuz we are playing small ball, when we clearly dont have the players that can pull it off right now
by DeepS on Dec 17, 2008 3:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nelly
knows a lot more about basketball than you’ll ever know so leave the coaching to him
by rainman120 on Dec 17, 2008 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
From watching the Denver game on ESPN I gathered that the mainstream thinks we are worse than crap. It sounded like we don’t have a single thing they can compliment, so all they do is make fun of how bad we are.
Yet we’re overachieving with this massive turd of a roster. The Clippers, the Wizards, even the Wolves are pretty stacked compared to us right now.
by antihero on Dec 17, 2008 3:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Whoa!
Did you just say those three teams are stacked? Those players you say they’re “stacked” with must be pretty overrated because those teams aren’t doin so good.
by rainman120 on Dec 17, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But their roster looks better than ours...
When you have a team of D-leaguers and undrafted players… your team is just not that good to begin with. I’m still hoping for the best….
by Mr. Monday Night on Dec 18, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wambulance
Seems to me most of the pissed off peeps on here are duped season ticket holders, who cant get face value for a ticket right now.
And personally, complaining about management screwing up the ‘We Believe’ era is living in the past. Whats done is done, and besides, that team was never going to make it past the second round. Then we’d all be bitchin about how we cant get over the hump and our management sucks. Lose lose for Ownership, so they might as well raise ticket prices and make sure they break even during the economic crunch!
by IceDubs on Dec 17, 2008 3:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
"If you hit .440 with 20 bombs, you don't have to do s---. You don't have to bring a glove to practice, just hit and leave whenever you want. You can bring a 40 and smoke a cigarette and call me from the parking lot asking me what time the game is, and I'll tell you. You can even say 'F--- you, Steve!' Actually, don't say that, that wouldn't be very nice." -Steve Friend, Head Coach, Chabot College Gladiators Baseball
by flipgatey3 on Dec 17, 2008 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
true
that was that roster’s chance. they were playing at their absolute peak. i still think if the rockets would have won game seven the W’s would have made the conference finals, but like you said, that’s history
by rainman120 on Dec 17, 2008 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nah
they’re just fans that wants to win. warriors just needed a rebounder against the jazz anyways.
Posts like that sometimes make it seem like bandwagon fans are better than some Warriors fans like you. At least bandwagon fans want to win, whereas you’re actually content with a losing team (after waiting 12 years for a winning season, too). Makes the rest of us Warrior fans look like morons who love having a losing team to root for. lmao.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 7:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i didnt say management sucks
but what they did was stupid, they only had the We Believe squad together for like half the season. It would have been a lot different if those same players had been through a training camp together. Yes it did happen in the past, but I have never seen a team that went 16-5 and won a playoff series when everyone was finally healthy split up after that short period of time. They only played like 30 games together as a whole including the playoffs.
And why you said they wouldnt ever make it past the second round, I do not know, if they had not blown two late leads in Utah they would have been in the Western Conference Final.
All in all, they could have built on the team they had at hand over training camp and they would have been even better the next year.
by reppin510 on Dec 17, 2008 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Yet we’re overachieving with this massive turd of a roster. The Clippers, the Wizards, even the Wolves are pretty stacked compared to us right now.
After reading that statement, it really puts things into perspective about the current Dubs starting five. 2 NBDL guys, an Italian Euro League player, a center that 90% of the NBA fans don’t really have a clue about and Stephen Jackson who is more known for winning a ring with San Antonio and the Brawl at Palace Hills. At least the Clippers, Wizards and Wolves have some noteable palyers, sh*t Oklahoma too.
by gabezgsw on Dec 17, 2008 3:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
yup. we're not at our best yet.
PG: Monta Ellis
SG: Jamal Crawford
SF: Stephen Jackson
PF: Corey Maggette
C: Andris Biedrins
That was supposed to be us at our best. Four 20ppg players to take pressure off of each other. Monta and Crawford doing a lot of the main scoring, Jackson adding more energy on defense and making shots as a 3rd option, Maggette getting the Warriors to the bonus by drawing fouls all the time.
Small line-up, but it would have at least been better than the D-League line-up that we currently have. Monta could do wonders in the running game.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 7:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Four 20ppg players to take pressure off of each other.
I’d like to hope that Maggette & Crawford were brought in to turn Jax into a 15ppg player. If he doesn’t have to focus on running the offense and scoring, he can focus on the other things he actually does well.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 18, 2008 6:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I meant
That’s why I said Jackson can start making shots as a “3rd option”. He’s more relaxed on offense in that role, whereas he does too many frustrating things as a number one option.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 18, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also
he has more energy to use on defense.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 18, 2008 6:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's still not a good lineup
maggs at the 4 has killed us. some combo of goose/turiaf and wright/dolph/kurz should be on the floor the entire game. rebounding, second chance points, points in the paint, inability to rotate to help, all problems indicative of the above lineup. ask yourself, how many of the above guys could start on a good team? 2 max.
watching nelllie trot out four 2 guards and a center all game long while we continually get beat on the boards, beat to the rim causing goose to foul, who then has to go to the bench b/c o foul trouble is the dumbest thing i can possibly think of. i’m all for small ball if it works. but even nellie has said it, “There smal guys are better than ours” (they meaning the entire nba)
the stop calling him "beans" movement
by pervisNeverNervous on Dec 18, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you
But if Maggette was playing with Monta and Crawford, he wouldn’t have to worry too much about making crazy offensive moves to get us back in the game. That’s where he killed us, he kept ballhogging and didn’t do anything good with it. With Monta and Jamal, he could just rely on the other scorers on the team.
I just meant that with more scorers on the team, it takes pressure off of Maggette and he can start playing his role more (which is to get to the line). Of course, I wouldn’t mind putting Ronny in the starting 4 spot either (better defense and rebounding), it’s just that it bugs me to think that we paid Maggette all that money to be a bench player.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 18, 2008 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Apologist
I don’t see how 4 20ppt scorers take pressure off each other, I think it creates more pressure, a logjam. Maggette could be playing with Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe and still try to put up 12 shots. Jackson isn’t taking a back seat to anyone, Crawford is only good when he’s scoring, and Monta is the guy we need to go to the hoop and score.
And I don’t think Crawford was “supposed” to be part of the original plan. It was going to be Ellis, Maggette, and Jax at the smalls. Maggette was “supposed” to cover for Baron’s scoring. What we found out was that Maggette is a mercenary, you pay him to put up points and he does, but to the detriment of the rest of the team. He’s best in his original role, as a scorer coming off the bench, Dunleavy knew what he was doing.
We need to hope that Ellis can play 1. That Crawford can be consistent at 2, that Jax will understand his highest use at 3 and that Maggette won’t bitch about coming off the bench to be a scorer.
Then we need to look at our depth and consider trading Buike, Bellinelli, Morrow, CJ or whoever so that we can get a veteran 4. Then we, might win some games. That’s a lot of hoping, but I’m a W’s fan, so that’s all I’ve got.
I think what’s frustrating is not only that we HAD a winning team, not only that Mullin had agreed on a 3 year extention for Davis before being vetoed, and not only that we were unable to pick up a much needed big for Harrington. What’s frustrating is that it seemed we were no longer disfunctional as an organization, that we had clear thinking, good management, and a cohesive plan. That gives fans confidence that moves will work out. Now we see we’re once again as disfunctional as the 9ers and Raiders, and that’s saying a lot.
by jmaaan on Dec 19, 2008 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact...
…that we traded for Crawford is disturbing to me, because of just the lineup you posted. It gives Nelson an excuse to start Maggette at power forward. Which is a bad idea in theory, empirically, and insofar as it takes minutes away from Wright and Randolph.
by Zack Vank on Dec 18, 2008 10:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
I agree BUT—-if the front office does not fix their S%*^t we will be looking at another 12yr FU
Moral will be down from the players & Free agents will not want to come. At this point let’s BeReal. We do have a lot of talent and not being used the way it should, but Nellie is losing it. We all know this is not a playoff team for now, So I do not get nellie WTF!!!Let the young guns play and see what we have.
As far as Maggette—He is a decent player just not a fit for us
Jackson —is trying to play a star lead role and it is not his game
Nellie is putting players and expecting them to play a role they should not.
I went through 12 yrs and I just do not want to see the same thing again. But it sure seems we are going there. I will stick with my dubs good or bad, but I need a fix to see that we are heading in the right direction
by BeReal on Dec 17, 2008 3:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The front office
They have on opportunity in the next couple years to make a very good team. Let’s hope they can get it Wright!
by rainman120 on Dec 17, 2008 4:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Front office dismantled a great, skilled, fun team. We are now left with a terrible, boring, sad, pathetic team. They raised ticket prices – which you wouldn’t do in a “rebuilding” year. After a couple great seasons we are now back at the bottom of the NBA barrel and the reason for that is front-office incompetence. If you don’t want to hear peoples opinions why do you look here. Bad teams deserve criticism.
by J Canseco on Dec 17, 2008 4:04 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
+1
- Make fans wait 12 years to make playoffs
- Assemble a very talented team capable of scoring against anyone (just need a rebounder)
- Make the playoffs and shock the world
- Start another rebuilding process
Pretty much sums it up. yee.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We all mourn in different ways....
We are the youngest team in the league and they need our support I think that’s what upsets most people. The young guys most people want to see barely plays.
I can’t speak for everybody in here but I don’t expect us to improve playing Randolph and Wright. But I think the time is right to really shower them with minutes. Our vets are either hurt, inneffective or both. No reason to start all the rookies, but Nellie should rely take advantage of this opportunity to allot the youngins some consistent minutes.
by lightz0ut on Dec 17, 2008 4:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
"I am not at all sick of the Warrior team and organization itself"
I don’t understand why you are willing to tolerate an organization that is almost completely devoid of professionalism. However, I’m not here to tell you how you should conduct yourself as a fan and I don’t think you’re in a position to be telling anyone how to act either.
by SkipT on Dec 17, 2008 4:58 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Amen brotha
Couldn’t have said it any better.
by Atma Brother ONE on Dec 17, 2008 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Read better broski:
maybe a little upset but nothing else. Is what followed.
Hasheem "The Dream" Thabeet or Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
by ejdacanay on Dec 17, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So then why is it ok?
You’re saying yourself that you don’t like the direction this team is headed. How is it not a reasonable extension of that mindset to evaluate the moves that have led the franchise to this point?
by SkipT on Dec 18, 2008 2:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly!
someone whining about other people whining, and then acting as if he/she is the one with hella wisdom. lol.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol thats what i thought too
this is a post of ALL whinning himself. But no he’s unique and a better fan than us
by THIZZ-A-LOT on Dec 17, 2008 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But mommy said I was a special little snowflake
Are you saying mommy’s wrong?
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 18, 2008 6:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so
the guy who started the fanpost is the snowflake?
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 21, 2008 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re all special snowflakes.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 22, 2008 7:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How is this a rebuilding year?
When the Warriors committed over $30mm this year alone to free agents? Not to mention locking up those free agents through 2014 in many cases, tying up almost $200mm. Not to mention adding Crawford’s extra year at $10mm and Jackson’s extra 3 years at $9mm per. You’re talking over $200 million. Which brings me to my next point.
THIS IS NOT A REBUILDING YEAR. You don’t spend that kind of cash in a rebuilding year. This has been a massively destructive year from which the Warriors will have to rebuild.
by chacabuco on Dec 17, 2008 5:33 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
rebuilding
Trading J-Rich for money to invest in some teenagers. That’s where it started.
But I see what you mean with the money thing.
To me, we’re not rebuilding “money wise”, but we’re rebuilding in trying to become a playoff team again. How ironic (we were a playoff team 2 seasons ago and only needed a couple more pieces).
The team we have now is trying to replicate the success that the We Believe Warriors had.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 7:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree
That’s exactly where it started.
Making the playoffs was not easy for a team that missed it for 12 straight seasons. When we did make it, our window of opportunity was open and we could have continued to build on that. Instead we subtracted a major component for a project. That told me that this is an organization that didn’t want to win. They just want to continue doing business.
The Warrior fanbase is so full of basketball fanatics that management believes that they don’t have to win to fill seats. They just have to keep playing. Fans will come to the games win or lose.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on Dec 17, 2008 10:31 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fans will come to the games win or lose.
and you don’t have to go far to see proof of that.
by lightz0ut on Dec 17, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Loss of Baron signaled the end of the We Believe era.
If we’re not Re-Building from the loss of Baron, what are we? Shooting for the playoffs?
Hasheem "The Dream" Thabeet or Brandon Jennings. A Warrior in 09.
With the 6th Pick in the 2009 MLB Draft, the SF Giants pick Donovan Tate.
Andre Smith in Silver & Black in 2009.
by ejdacanay on Dec 17, 2008 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
just because you throw a bunch of cash at players doesnt mean you’re going to instantly become relevant, unless those players are KG and Ray Allen. This instantly became a rebuilding year when we lost Baron Davis. Not hard to understand.
"They can trade me," Bonds said. "I don't think they will, though. It's not like I want to be traded, man. I'm a Giant. I'm stuck here till the end."
by GameSix on Dec 18, 2008 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree entirely
why would we fire people and trade people after 20 games?! i mean COME ON have some patience!! what are we the sixers?! we aren’t a championship caliber team or a playoff caliber team in this western conference. we aren’t an elite team, we WERENT an elite team. people need to get over it.
by HoLdEmUP on Dec 17, 2008 6:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm frustrated, but I never came to those conclusions.
I never wanted to fire Nellie or trade players. The only reason why i’m mad is because we’re losing like some bitches on the court when I know that this team is very capable of winning.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 17, 2008 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes we look like bitches out there, i agree 100%
we should win, and we will win. firing the coach doesn’t solve that (addressed to everyone else). twolves are 0-5 since their new coach. toronto still sucks. philly still sucks.
for everyone
lets pretend the spurs started to lose some, would they fire greg pop HELL NO!
utah starts poorly to a season lets fire jerry sloan!!!
etc etc. come on now nellie is better than being fired in the middle of the season. and if they fire him, they messed up, we will be worse.
by HoLdEmUP on Dec 17, 2008 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"we should win, and we will win. firing the coach doesn’t solve that"
To be more precise, i’m fed up with Nellie’s system more than the man himself. I’m tired of run and gun with no D. I’m tired of the small lineup philosophy. I’m tired of playing bigs like smalls. I’m tired of the revolving door line-up where one game you start and do well and the next game you’re a DNP-CD.
Since we suck already, why not try a different coach and a different basketball philosophy? Can it get any worse?
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on Dec 17, 2008 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
took it right from my mouth
I’m actually up for waiting until Monta comes back to give him a fair chance.
In addition to what was said, I’m also alarmed at the body language the team is starting to show.
Next time somebody runs a break on us, count how many Warriors are on the backcourt. Then count how many are actually making an effort to defend. After the other team scores, watch if they respond by hustling back on offense or to look at each other as if it was the other guy’s responsibilty.
Same in the offense, watch how some of our players stop playing because the guy with the ball didn’t see them wide open.
But I gotta admit, it’s hard to pinpoint the blame on Nelson unless you know what goes on behind the scenes. It’s just that he’s the easiest to go.
by lightz0ut on Dec 17, 2008 11:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Since we suck already, why not try a different coach and a different basketball philosophy? Can it get any worse?
well, it could (get worse) if Monta & Andris don’t fit that system.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 12:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"well, it could (get worse) if Monta & Andris don’t fit that system"
What good is having players fit your system if your system isn’t going anywhere? The game of basketball should come before the players that play it. That’s how you win. If your system is flawed and you keep feeding players into it that “fit”, then you’re going nowhere.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on Dec 18, 2008 1:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the problems are 6 yrs for 66 million, 6 yrs for 62 million. if they’re not worth that kind of money in a different system, that sets us back another 6 years from making the playoffs again.
sometimes, a system is everything – look at how the triangle helped MJ share the ball, how Thibodeau’s helped Pierce and Allen defensively, how it’s helped the Knicks look slightly below average instead of a gutter team.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Where’s the sense in signing Monta at 6years 66mill but your coach for 2 years if you don’t believe that Monta can play in a non-Nellie system? That goes for any players signing contracts longer than Nellie’s. Life after Nellie is inevitable. If you believe that Monta’s and Biedrins’ talents can only thrive in Nellieball then your lack of confidence in these players is being exposed.
I won’t buy into that. Nellie’s system can be historically proven to fail in the longrun. It has always been entertaining and can only take you so far, but it is not a system that you employ if your ultimate goal is championship. I’ve seen Nellieball and it’s been a fun ride. But now i wanna win.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on Dec 18, 2008 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It has always been entertaining????
We are not amused.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Dec 18, 2008 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually i think the point of Nellieball is to entertain and win enough to be a 5-8 seed. unless you have a top 5 NBA player or 3 legit multiple time winning all stars – preferably the big man, main playmaker, shooter type formula – chances are you’re not winning the championship. every year there is only 3-5 teams who are realistically capable of winning a championship.
no one says it b/c the goal for the other 25-27 teams who aren’t championship contenders is to keep their fanbase interested for that particular season, or in other words, sell tickets. if you think of it like that, you’ll see why teams like the Wizards make moves like they do that supposedly would of made them a 4-8 seed for years to come.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally understand that that’s the way it is. My point is that Nellieball further ensures that our team doesn’t have much a chance of competing at that elite level. I don’t believe in this system anymore. And if we continue to draft players and trade for players that fit this system then it’s the equivelent of running as fast as you can into a brick wall.
Change the coach, change the system, change the basketball philosophy and then you begin to move forward with more purpose. If perpetuating the status quo is good enough for some people then carry on. Maybe i just need something more as a fan.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on Dec 18, 2008 7:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The curse of Nelson is that he takes teams that don’t have the lineup to be contenders and makes them playoff teams. Then when the key players are up for extentions, it’s tough to decide. Are they a product of his system or can they thrive in other systems? And even if they are system players do you keep them and try to keep winning with your coach (which is exciting and gets fans interested) or do you think bigger, let those guys walk, and risk going from a playoof team with excited fans to a non-playoff team like our current team?
by jmaaan on Dec 19, 2008 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
works for me. i’m just saying we need to get lucky in the lottery in a year w/ a Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Bron, Howard type year that the W’s can’t mess up by drafting a Joe Smith to be a “contender”. although in fairness to the W’s, high school players were taboo back then. still doesn’t excuse their 3rd big miss, Foyle instead of McGrady and their 4th big miss Dunleavy instead of Stoudemire. who was drafting for them? Vitale?
but a change to defense would be nice – it’s just we have only one legitimate 1vs1 defensive player in Turiaf although Jackson is a very versatile one.
by the evil monkey on Dec 20, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well guys, we have two big men on the roster, so maybe a start would be to get big men
any coach we moved to now, would still be forced to play small ball. you can’t play big when your biggest guy is 6’11" 250. if you’re talking about playing TALL, well we’ve TRIED THAT this season. obviously it wasn’t working. we definitely need corey back because he’s huge (muscular) for a 3 and at least he can muscle with people at the 4. wright and randolph can’t do that they are wimps. also andris and turiaf can’t play THE ENTIRE game like people want.
by HoLdEmUP on Dec 18, 2008 3:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No...
…playing our taller players at their natural positions has worked! Nelson just craps out in big moments and subs the small ball back in! If you look at the statistical breakdowns of how we play when our rotations are set to NBA standards, we play much better.
Corey Maggette is not a productive power forward, which he’s shown. I’m not sure what about Wright or Randolph scream “wimp” to you, outside of the fact that they’re skinny, which seems like a sort of grade schoolish way to assess somebody’s toughness.
by Zack Vank on Dec 18, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The excuse that Nelson and the front office say is...
this is a rebuilding year. they have been rebuilding ever since the last time they made the playoffs until the WE BELIEVE era, but as soon as we had a great team in 2007, they Fu*K it all up!
GO We USED TO BELIEVE!!!!!!
depressed sigh… ;{
by GsWBush on Dec 17, 2008 6:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
If i saw this
i wouldnt have posted my fanshot.
I am Greg Oden, i am goingz to be trade to The Warrior. hoooray.
Warriors for life. Raiders till death. And The A's when i get free tickets.
by STIX on Dec 17, 2008 7:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think most of it is...
The bandwagon fans.
by withclubsauce on Dec 17, 2008 8:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not really
It could also be most of the fans who waited 12 seasons to make the playoffs just to see the team go back to a lottery team again.
by Five Ten Entertainment on Dec 18, 2008 6:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there's a difference between being critical and whining
for those of us who saw the moves and called them as we saw them when they were being made as poor decisions, well, we have every right to be critical
rah-rah boys who don’t want to hear anything negative can join their yahoos in the happyhorseshit section, real fans have stuck through thin and thick with this team and see history repeating itself and have every right to be pissed
being critical doesn’t mean you’re not a good fan – being absurdly critical when things are going well, or better than expected would be whining
some of us tried to say this past summer that org lacked a clear direction – rebuild or reload? GSW tried a bit of both and the result was not enough of either and now we’re hosed with long expensive contracts for underachieving overpaid vets playing in front of our young players with potential (ya, that word). So we lose AND can’t get as clear a picture as we could to evaluate the younger players we will need to develop and decide on in the future
we have every right to be pissed, season tix holders or not
by hardcore on Dec 17, 2008 9:20 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
The Problem is that We Are Developing/Playing Guys that Have a Lower Ceiling for Potential
Other than Belli, the only guys to groom with real potential are Brandon and AR. I like Buike but I do not see him improving much more than he has. CJ is defensively flawed, Kurz does not have the athletic ability, Morrow is a bit too one-dimensional, and M. Williams is already a bust. Hendrix may have potential if he ever gets out of the D-League. D. Nelson is a legit backup PG prospect.
Accordingly PLAY WRIGHT AND AR – otherwise this team has a limited ability to improve. (I did not talk about the guys with 4 or more years of experience because you really do not need to groom them).
I am pissed because I see an inferior product on the floor that will not improve through small ball.
by terryteagle on Dec 17, 2008 10:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i've posted this elsewhere
but to be honest, you don’t really “develop” in games.
you’re not gonna shoot that jump hook you’ve just started working on in practice in an actual game. you’re probably going to try to get all the way to the rim or pass it out or take some kind of fadeaway jump shot until you’ve worked on that jump hook enough times in scrimmages to unveil it in a real game. then the fans go “wow, i didn’t know he could do that”.
you go w/ what you are already good at. if you’re changing your jump shot like demarcus is or barnes was – it’s better not to play games where you’re form will likely regress to it’s old form out of habit as demarcus’ allegedly does form time to time, vs barnes who never played and so never regressed his form out of the pressure of the moment or b/c of instinct. each time he took a jumper in practice, he probably calmly shot it with his new form until it b/c something he didn’t even have to think about.
even counter moves are usually 1st conceptualized and honed in practice. your teammates tend to know your go to moves better than anyone having seen it day in and day out. bragging rights (& betting) are big and they’ll lean toward things you like to do. on some occasions an assistant coach will point it out to you and it’ll be something you work on with that coach. i’m sure in the NBA, they’ll even pass you a scouting report about you to try to motivate you into working on adding counters to your tendencies.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 12:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sounds good
But as for changing your jumper… once you commit to changing your jumper, you’re basically committing to shooting it that way in practice and in games. I agree that practice is where you hone it. It’s where you train your muscle memory thru repitition. But as long as it’s still being trained it’ll always be a work in progress, whether in practice or in games.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on Dec 18, 2008 1:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
merely pointing it out
b/c, Nellie commented that DeMarcus’ jumper occasionally regresses in the d-league games.
on experience alone, the higher the level, the faster the play, the less time you have to think. in games, instincts take over. unless you’ve shot it the new way for at least 5 or 6 months, if you’re not consciously thinking about it, the shot you’ve been shooting for 10+ years is probably going to show up instead.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also
i think it’s more important who our assistant coaches are… they’re the ones that usually work 1 on 1 w/ players… AR & BW probably do most of their work with Russell Turner – what he works with them on is more important than Nellie. it wasn’t Phil working w/ Bynum – Phil used to put Kwame & Mihm in ahead of Bynum until they were all hurt last season and benches him in the 4th now – it was Kareem who worked w/ Bynum
so outside of their own work, the person w/ the biggest influence on the W’s future big men is probably Russell Turner. he did work with Tim Duncan (and later Darius Songaila) at Wake Forest before joining up w/ Mike Montgomery to work w/ Stanford (and later the W’s in’ 04)…..
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dont forget sidney moncrief
actually i know that moncrief is the shooting coach or something but i’m not sure if that includes individual skills dev like turner.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on Dec 18, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
100% correct.
morrow, buke, watson may be more nba ready trhat wright, randolph (or formerly bellinelli) but i thnk only a fool would say the undrafted trio will be better than other 3
by Warriors510 on Dec 18, 2008 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t dislike our players. I actually really like our roster. I think it’s a bunch of likeable guys — I even like Maggette — and I think there’s some real promise on this team.
I don’t dislike Nellie, either… I’m fond of the old guy, as he’s entertaining and he’s given us some great memories. But this season, he has given us less than we could get. We are 7-19. Given the absurdly easy schedule we’ve played, we easily could be 12-14, with our talent. We wouldn’t be headed anywhere fast that way either, but we’d all feel a lot better about the squad, and, critically, we’d feel like we were seeing the best they can do.
The frustrating thing about this season isn’t that the team’s bad. It’s that Nellie’s making the team less than it is. Starting four shooting guards isn’t maximizing our potential. Putting Stephen Jackson at the four doesn’t give us the best chance to win. Keeping Brandan Wright on the bench for 41 minutes isn’t productive.
I was very fond of a couple of the teams in the dark years, because you could tell, we saw everything those teams had. And it wasn’t much — they were bad teams. But the records they got indicating the best they could do. There’s something satisfying about that — even when you’re outgunned, you do your best.
This is not the best this team can do, or anywhere near it. I’m not saying we’re a good team… I’m not even saying we’re necessarily a decent team. But we are not this bad. The fact that we’re doing so badly is intensely frustrating, and it’s not the players’ fault. I don’t know if it’s stubbornness or laziness or a simple inability to adapt, but Nellie is coaching horribly. He is coaching in a way that, incredibly, maximizes our crappiness and seems to be hurting morale amongst the younger players. I mean, that’s hard to do.
I love the Warriors. I’ve watched just about every game, and I’ll continue to, no matter how bad it gets. But the idea that this was the way things had to go this season is, simply, wrong. There’s a difference between a transition year and this. The difference is some unacceptably bad coaching, and it’s not fun to watch.
by onlxn on Dec 18, 2008 9:45 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
even though we're on the opposite side of the fence sometimes, hope you know i respect your opinion, but i'm not sure on this
as we are now, are we really more talented than say, Memphis (9-16)?
Mayo’s playing like a vet (outside of the last 3 possessions against the Hornets) and is arguably better than Jax. he’s definitely playing a lot better than Jax is this season and a lot harder on defense.
Gay vs Maggette, he’s shot a lot better (adjusted FG% – factors in the extra point you get from 3’s -is 48.4% to Magg’s 43%), plus he’s on the court a lot more often. and Gay is actually trying on defense some this year. trend? if you throw in Marco’s recent play to make up for Maggette’s injury time, i’d still say even at worst Gay is at least even w/ that duo – likely ahead.
Gasol isn’t AB, but the difference isn’t astronomical.
though their ceilings are higher, i’d say Warrick & Arthur are equivalent or better than BW & AR at this point. especially on defense.
Lowry, Conley, Quintin Ross vs Crawford, CJ, KAz- edge to name recognition and offense to W’s, d for Memphis
Turiaf>>>>>>>>>Darko defensively, but Darko’s having at least a decent backup player season and probably playing better than him offensively. 5.9 ppg on 52.5% and 4.7 rebs.
x-factors, Buckner/Jaric/Critt (b4 trade) vs Morrow, Kurz, DeMarcus, MWill – probably a wash. outside of those 2 games, Morrow is shooting 37.9% from the field and 33% from 3 point land.
so 9-16 vs 7-19. they’ve played a softer schedule .469 to .482, are 2-10 on the road compared to 3-12 for us. they’ve just played better at home than we have. 7-6 vs 4-7. but if we eek out that Miami game like we should of, it’s 8-18 and 5-6 at home.
pretty even teams, pretty even records. our point margins, which Hollinger is so fond of, is -3.9 for Memphis, -5.6 for us, but our pace is so much faster, that it allows for a wider margin. (us 101.3 to 93.3 for then)
SOS, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerranking?season=2009&page=2&order=false
Memphis adjusted FG% found at, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=mem
GSW, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=gsw
Pace info, http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=pac&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http3a2f2finsider.espn.go.com2fnba2fhollinger2fteamstats3fsort3dpac26seasonType3d226league3dnba
standings info, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standings?season=2009&group=conference&seasontype=2&standType=standings
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I respect your opinion too… we’re all good. As to this specific point, I actually pretty much agree with you, with a couple caveats.
1) I think this speaks as much to the potential of the Grizzles as to our lack of it. The Grizzlies are unusually talented for a bad team, and unless they screw up, they won’t be a bad team for long. We probably don’t have any more talent than they do.
But we do have more talent than a lot of teams who are doing better than us. I’d take our roster over that of the Bucks (11-16), the Pacers (9-16), the Knicks (11-14)… we certainly have more talent than the Kings, who have the same record as us. Some of these teams have had more injury issues than we have — they’re still doing better.
2) I wouldn’t necessarily disagree that Warrick’s better than Wright. I do think Wright’s better offensively, but Warrick’s an impressive defender, and his numbers reflect that… by plus-minus stats, he rates better than Wright. But there’s a big difference: Warrick’s played 48% of the possible Grizzly minutes this season, while Wright’s only played 27% of our possible minutes. Warrick plays almost twice as often as Wright, because the Grizzlies are smart enough to realize he’s an asset. They’ve won a game or two they otherwise wouldn’t have because they’ve used him. We’ve lost a game or two we otherwise wouldn’t have because we haven’t used Wright (probably even more, because of smallball, but it’s hard to say). Defensive warts and all, Wright helps us when he’s out there. Nellie keeps him muzzled.
3) The .482 record of our opponents is deceptive. We faced the Nuggets when they had neither Chauncey nor Iverson, the Magic without Howard, the Rockets without T-Mac, and two woefully banged-up and undermanned teams in the Knicks and Pacers. Our opponents haven’t been nearly as strong as that .482 number suggests.
We have faced a number of excellent teams, yes, and we’ve played on the road more than at home. We’ve played a good number of games that we should have lost (and we’ve certainly taken care of business on those). But look at these games.
Mon, Nov 3 @ Memphis
Wed, Nov 5 Denver
Fri, Nov 7 Memphis
Sun, Nov 9 @ Sacramento
Tue, Nov 11 Minnesota
Sat, Nov 15 @ LA Clippers
Tue, Nov 25 @ Washington
Sat, Nov 29 @ NY Knicks
Mon, Dec 8 @ Oklahoma City
Wed, Dec 10 Milwaukee
Mon, Dec 15 Orlando
Wed, Dec 17 @ Indiana
These are twelve EASY games. I mean, embarrassingly easy. Bad teams, teams missing key guys, teams dressing nine… hell, most of these games weren’t part of back-to-backs. Any team with a pulse should be able to go 9-3 against this lineup. We went 5-7.
There’s no playoff team in this Monta-less roster. It’s a bad roster. It’s imbalanced towards swingmen, the least valuable kind of player; there’s a shocking lack of defensive chops, especially among the little guys; and players like Jack and Crawford aren’t nearly as good as some people seem to think.
Still and all, though, we’re underperforming. We’ve had a generous number of gimmes, and we’ve failed to convert. Why?
If you want one simple reason, look at the league leaders in PER (a flawed stat, but hear me out). Brandan Wright ranks 29th in the league in PER, just ahead of Danny Granger. Of the players ahead of Brandan Wright, Shaq and Manu play 28 and 25 minutes a game, both for health reasons. Everybody else plays at least 32 minutes a game.
Wright plays 16 minutes a game.
What are PER’s flaws? Well, it can over-reward volume shooting, and it doesn’t quantify defense well. Wright’s fourth in the league in FG%, so if anything, he’s being undervalued there.
Defense? Yeah, Brandan Wright is not a defensive superstar. The numbers have him as a slightly above-average defender.
But look at some of the guys ahead of him in PER. Is Amare Stoudemire a defensive superstar? Is Vince Carter? Is Antawn Jamison?
No, they’re not… Wright’s probably a better defender than those three. But you play those guys anyway, because their offense makes them pluses overall. The same goes for Wright. I’m not saying he’ll be as good as those guys… I’m saying he’ll be an asset, and when you’re 7-19, you don’t spit in the face of an asset. Unless you’re Don Nelson.
Nellie’s job is not an easy one this year. But he could be doing it much, much better than he is.
by onlxn on Dec 18, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take our roster over that of the Bucks (11-16), the Pacers (9-16), the Knicks (11-14)
Yeah… but that’s because we’ve got Monta (who’s played 0 minutes), and a couple injured vets. We also are far, far younger than any of these three teams, and thus have more upside potential.
and players like Jack and Crawford aren’t nearly as good as some people seem to think
I think it’s more that they’re playing the alpha dog role when they’re more suited to the beta or gamma dog roles. Useful players, but not when the defense can watch them.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 18, 2008 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Even with Monta’s injury, I think we may have those teams beat. Look at the Knicks. David Lee’s really good, but no better than Biedrins… other than that, they basically have a bunch of guys, same as us. I think our bunch of guys is slightly better and slightly deeper. Yeah, Al’s blowing up right now, but then that speaks to D’Antoni getting more out of him than Nellie, doesn’t it?
Same with the Bucks. Redd’s slipping to the point where he’s probably not much better than Crawford at this point… Jefferson’s slipped to the point where he’s not much better than Jack. I’d take Biedrins over Bogut for sure, and depth-wise we’ve got ‘em at least covered. As for the Pacers, Danny Granger’s far better than any of our scorers, but they don’t have much else.
And yeah, I agree — Jack and Crawford can be very good complementary options. It’s not that they don’t have value. It’s that what they do, at least in Crawford’s case, doesn’t help us much.
by onlxn on Dec 18, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong
With Monta, Jax, and Maggs healthy, we’re definitely better than those teams. With none of them healthy, and two not even playing, it’s a toss up. Depending on what side of the bed I woke up on, I’d choose a different team every day. Like it or not, we’ve been playing with half of a Maggette from day 1, Jax isn’t offensively talented enough to run an offense where defenses know it’s going to happen, and now he’s injured. We really haven’t had a good team to throw out this year. That means you lose on the road, and you
Are we really so down as to compare our team against the mediocrest of the mediocre? These teams may not have the best record, but most teams with worse records all have excuses (Memphis, Minny, and OKC are all very young across the board, Washington is injured and not very good).
We’re better than our record because two of our best players are on the shelf and one of our other better players is playing with an injured hand. We should have beaten some of those terrible teams, but it’s hard to do with your most talented players on the shelf.
Finally, to go back to an earlier comment you made:
Bad teams, teams missing key guys, teams dressing nine
Doesn’t that sound like the Warriors: Bad to begin with? Not terrible, but certainly not great. Missing key guys? Yep, 2 in most cases. Dressing 9? With Rob Kurz and Marcus Williams, that pretty much counts as dressing 10. Yeah, it’s been bad.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 18, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We should have beaten some of those terrible teams, but it’s hard to do with your most talented players on the shelf
see Magic vs. Warriors
superman and MP (who was starting for them before getting hurt) both out
just saying all teams are in the same boat, ours just has more leaks and a cranky captain
by hardcore on Dec 18, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Magic did beat the Jazz at home minus MP/S2 – i think Jazz were only w/o Boozer. problem was Jameer was hot, Courtney Lee filled in for MP and Andris let Gortat fill in for S2.
should of beat the Heat though for sure.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 5:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of all of our problems, depth isn’t one. We have eleven guys who’ve genuinely shown some ability or another so far (I’m not including Kurz). Many of these guys are raw, their skills overlap too much, and not many of them defend well, but we can’t complain about depth. We have a bunch of useful bench guys.
As for injuries, Maggette first. The problem is that Maggette has played in 16 of our 26 games… we’ve gone 3-13 with him, 4-6 without him. If he helps us, it’s not showing in the stats.
Has Maggette played worse than usual when he’s out there? Not really… the only difference from last year is that he can’t hit a three to save his life. Maybe that’s injury-related, but he’s been ice-cold from three for entire seasons before. Overall, he’s been the same old Corey Maggette.
The problem with Corey Maggette isn’t that he’s playing so much worse than usual. The problem is that Nellie is using him wrong. Maggette’s production at small forward more than makes up for his bad defense… his numbers from this season and previous seasons reflect that. But Maggette’s production at power forward does not make up for his bad defense there, for the simple reason that he’s not a power forward. Nellie’s been giving opponents a mismatch at the 4 without getting one in return. Our offense hasn’t opened anything up for Maggette… he’s had to drive his way into scoring repeatedly like usual. Between the constant driving and the unacceptably tiny defense, Maggette looks bad, and Warriors fans think he sucks.
He doesn’t suck. As you and I both know, he’s a good player. But overall, injuries aren’t what’s keeping him from showing that. Don Nelson is.
Now, Jack’s hand injury is an issue. He’s played worse since it happened, and we’ve played even worse as a team since it happened. This injury has artificially lowered our talent level.
But shouldn’t Nellie just sit the guy and let him heal, considering we’ve lost 13 of 15? We have four young swingmen who can play in his absence, most of whom are currently outplaying him, and a good young power forward ready to step in… isn’t benching Jack an absolute no-brainer, considering he’s only been a part of one whole win for an entire month?
Every team has injuries… Nellie has dealt with ours badly. Maggette’s injury sucks, but it’s been made worse by Nellie insisting on slamming him up against big guys over and over… Jack’s injury is a problem, but it’s a bigger problem because Nellie keeps playing him. However you slice, Nellie has not been maximizing the potential of this roster. Flaws, injuries and all, we should be better than 7-19.
by onlxn on Dec 18, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's Nellie's worst move -Magg's at PF
though i understood why he did it at the time as a 10 game experiment seeing as how great Morrow was shooting.
don’t forget the worst W’s move of all, trading for Crawford….. hate to say it since he sounds like such a great guy. and that’s a Mully move. 2
don’t know how many more wins we’d have, but i think we’d of been a lot more competitive minus Crawford.
and 2nd worst move is the Rowell move of extending Jack.
at least Nellie’s bad moves are going to net us more ping pong balls.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree… those were both disasters, especially the Crawford trade. In comparison, Nellie’s crappy coaching isn’t as significant. Still doesn’t mean it’s fun to watch.
by onlxn on Dec 18, 2008 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maggette at PF is definitely silly
But according to ESPN and other GSoM posts, we’re about to make an even worse one. I may not think Wright should be getting serious minutes right now, but he’s a valuable player, and is showing lots of positive signs for the near future. Felton, on the other hand, is a crappy shooter, and a small PG who couldn’t really play on the floor with Monta very well, and he plays the position Monta’s supposed to play. It’s like they’re making all these decisions to win NOW (I don’t mean this season, I mean now, like the next game, screw anything after that). Are they afraid that fans will stop buying tickets if they don’t get a W? Gaaahhhh. Felton sucks, if we’re getting rid of either Wright or Randolph, we’re trading big for small, again. On an already small team. WTF. I’m sad.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 19, 2008 6:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. okay you're breaking me down on Wright
30 minutes at least backing up both Turiaf & Biedrins.
i’m still not sold on him as a starter until he’s gained 20 or 30 lbs and can hold defensive rebounding position, post position, and push opposing big men 2 or 3 ft out of their preferred post positions.
but i would love to see Wright come in against the oppositions 2nd team for AB and let him be the big on pick n’ roll and let him flash into the post.
by the evil monkey on Dec 18, 2008 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he could start without having some hiccups… he’d get pushed around some, for sure. I think his greatest potential long-term is as a 3, actually, if his shooting touch could merit it (unlikely, though not impossible). But he’d be better than anybody else we’re playing at the 4, and it could only help his development. Seems like a win-win to me.
Having said that, Wright as the 4/5 backup behind Biedrins and Turiaf would work for me too. I just want to see the dude get some consistent time, and for us to stop letting anybody and everybody get to the basket.
by onlxn on Dec 18, 2008 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is
We are getting blown out in games. Everybody has valid points, but we wouldnt be ridin the wambulance if we were competitive more often.
This team can run and run and run, and shoot any shot they want – when it is working! But when the chips are down we need to have an ability to turn that off and play defense. With 15 guards on our roster that just cant happen, Nellie or no Nellie, but does that mean we can’t whine? If we cant get our rocks off watching the Warriors win, we have to get off complaining.
That’s the way pro sports work.
by warriorsvictim on Dec 18, 2008 10:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
the wambulance?
i’m sure many of us set our sights high, WAY TOO HIGH most likely, but the fact is, we suck and we can’t win. we’re 13th currently in the west. i don’t care how high i set my sights, i did not think this was going to happen this season. we all whine cuz we expected a little more. we whine cuz we care about the dubs and we want to see them succeed. i’m sure there are a lot of frustrated fans out there and they’re aloud to whine, cuz that’s what fans do when their team is bad.
by Young Moolah on Dec 18, 2008 12:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
All point s are valid
The truth is we SUCK big time right now. We can slice it and dice however we want.
The Team has no direction and Nellie as much I love the guy is really lost , trying this and that and I know different schemes have to be tried when a team is this bad.
Again I love nellie but good players have left to do good
Jrich
baron
Al harrington
barnes not a super star but had that energy off the bench
They are gone and so be it but —We sure look like we are going down the road of teh 90s
by BeReal on Dec 18, 2008 2:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Most starting line-up changes prior to Christmas..........
Says it all really, The warriors are a rudderless ship right now and it is desperately sad to see. As to Wahhmbulance….I support this team through thick and thin and did so from across the pond before I came here, BUT, some of the really basic fundementals of this team are killing us right now, for some reason it does not seem to be getting through to the powers that be. Hence people who have paid hard earned money feel that they are getting slightly less value than they should right now and to be honest, rightly so.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Dec 18, 2008 4:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I must admit
I am one of the many people that set my expectations to high. I’ve definitely been riding the Wambulance, and I want to thank you for healing me. Way to snap everyone back to reality. The Blazers growing pains were ALMOST as bad.
by Nuck Chorris on Dec 18, 2008 10:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hey OP
Read JustSomeName’s post in this thread. It is very relevant.
by UncleCliffy on Dec 19, 2008 12:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm a pretty big Warriors fan,
I’m frustrated and I am complaining. Here is why
-We are bad this year, so bad in fact that its December and everyone already acknowlegdes we got no shot at playoffs. So bad that we cant even play competetive with the better end teams. So bad that watching my beloved team is making die hard commited fans(me, FJ, and I am sure theyres a bunch more) actually get a sick feeling from watching this team.
-16 years, we made the playoffs once. Once! This is a leauge where more than half the leauge makes the playoffs every year. The Odds were even higher before Toronto, Vancouver/Memphis and Charlotte.
-Personally I dont see how we improve this thing in the next few year. Bad contracts, questionable picks, and the questionable picks dont even get to play regularly and we dont know who, if anybody is making the basketball descisions anymore.
So we have been crap in the past(16 years, 1po apperance), horrible at the moment(7-19, no shot at playoffs in december) and the future looks horrible as well(personal opinion, we can debate that if you would like.
If that doesnt make a fan fustrated and upset, what would? The only thing worse than this, is if Cohan packed the team up and moved to Oklahoma City.
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Dec 19, 2008 8:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Good poin but...
I agree with you to an extent. I am getting a little tired of all the complaining as well, but there is validity to some of it. Anyone who thought we were a playoff team pre season was just kidding themselves, we have the youngest team in the league and signed a coach who is notoriously bad with young players to an extension…not a good start. I think you stated the obvious by saying this is a team that is rebuilding and they need to develop young talent, but that is not happening. Wright and Randolph, who are supposed to be the young future of this organization, rarely see the court, Kurtz has barely seen the court since his 20 pt game. How does that develop anything? And to say you are pleased or at all satisfied with how the Warriors are playing is a joke. They play no defense, none, not at all and you cannot win games not playing any D…you just can’t and the warriors are proving that. Their offense is solid, but very stagnant at times, I wondered how Nellie was unable to wing a ring with all the yrs he has been in the league and the talent he has had, and now I know. He has tried to re-invent the wheel and it is wasting our time. I have learned this year that you need a good post game, a good pt guard who can manage the game, and solid role players to win…not how Nellie works, and the longer he is at the helm the =more setbacks we will see. I appreciate you trying to pull positives from all this, and I was right there through all the rough years, and I see us falling into another era like that, and this time I am going to be realistic
by mbuddtha on Dec 19, 2008 8:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You don’t like it when people complain about the behavior of the team? Then why are you COMPLAINING about other people’s behavior? FOUL: Contradiction, 2 free throws
And I’ll sink both of them:
1. Coaching: Nelly has been brutal this year, the way he has treated Randolph…..Man, I am still outraged by him telling Randolph to tell his agent to seek a trade. There are so many things wrong with that I don’t know where to start. You don’t tell a 19-year old “It’s not working out” Especially one so talented. You work with them. You teach them. You encourage them. If they are doing somethign wrong, show and tell them how they can improve. Don’t give them the idea they are a lost cause and they should pretty much give up on an ideas of having any success with the Warriors. What does that accomplish? One of the biggest brainfarts I have ever seen out of a coach. If you really want them to trade Randolph, (error in judgement as far as I am concerned), tell Mullins about it. If Mullins doesn’t think so you pretty much have to work with the players you have because that is your job, COACH, you know, to COACH the players you have. That’s just the tip of the iceberg, saying he isn’t having any fun this year, waving the whiteflag so early like he has, having probably the worst COACHED team in the NBA right now, terrible fundamentals on defense and virtually no offensive scheme except let someone go 1 on 1. That’s on the coach, those are his responsibilities to implement those things. I would say Nelly this year if he is not the worst coach in the NBA, he’s been one of the worst.
I will say that I like him standing up to SJax and giving defensive coaching duties over to Keith Smart. He really did need to do some damage control after that Randolph blunder, is anyone as upset about that as I am?
Swish.
2. SJax and Magette. Wow. Can you find any other players more severly underperforming their contracts? Magette is…..well…..to borrow from an NFL coach “He is what we thought he was”. Unfortunately we can’t really let him off the hook. We are on the hook for 5 years. Ouch. You can’t make those types of blunders front office. I’m not saying Magette is terrible, but he is completely wrong for our system. A 1 on 1 drive to the hoop and get some foul shots. That’s his game and it doesn’t mesh at all with the run and gun. Yes he looks good on the stat sheet, but it doesn’t really help the team game. Plus he is not great on defense and we already have a logjam at that position without him. Panic signing, unfortunately we can’t get rid of him so easily. I just hope the front office can pull something out of their hats and trade him for ANYBODY with an expiring contract. That would really make my day. Speaking of trading someone, the Warriors should also try to do that with SJax. He is playing so bad right now, I know he has been playing hurt, and he was much better in prior years. Maybe after he gets healthy some team would trade for him thinking he will be better when fully healthy which probably will be somewhat true. But he is an aging player on a team in rebulding mode. Therefore we should trade him, we have Wright and Randolph, I would much rather see the team develop those two guys them watch SJax continue a brutal season.
Swish number two.
If you can’t address people’s complaints about the team, then maybe you should consider that their complaints are valid. People have legitimate complaints all the time, that’s life and sometimes things don’t get done until people voice their dissaproval.
by runandgun on Dec 23, 2008 7:56 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

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