It's all about the fundamentals
by lightz0ut on Dec 7, 2008 8:08 PM PST
22 comments
The Warriors have one simple, yet big problem: they're not playing fundamental basketball. Most likely, it is because of Nellie's system or just the players refusing to make a commitment, whatever it is the Warriors would need to get back to basics if they are to really turn not just this season but the franchise around.
Problem #1: Rebounding
Warriors meet Box out. Sure, there are times our smaller, lankier lineup gets outmuscled for the rebound but alot of times it has to do more with the 4 opposing players challenging 2 of our own for the rebound. I know part of the reason is Nellie's philosophy of pushing the break but let's face, there is no run and gunning this year until at least Monta comes back. So, he needs to get everybody to box their man out and hit the boards. It's one of the most frustrating thing to watch the Warriors D up pretty good only to have the opponent have 1 more chance... or 2...or 3... or 4...oh you get the point.
Problem #2: Defending the Pick and Roll
I know the pick and roll, when perfectly executed, can be a deadly weapon but when it's executed against the Warriors you feel like you're watching a tutorial on how to do it. I have to watch other teams to see if the pick and roll is really just hard to stop or the Warriors just don't have a clue on how to do it. Where would you place your money on?? Anyway, it's one thing to see Tim Duncan and Tony Parker rip your team apart with a little two-man game but Chris Duhon and David Lee, Steve Blake and Pryzibilla?
Problem #3: Run a fastbreak
This is one of the biggest areas we really miss Baron and Monta. Baron, of course, used to orchestrate most of our breaks while Monta, well just get him the ball and start running back the other way. And I think it's one of the biggest reasons we don't just lost, we get blown out. Since these used to be easy points for us. This year, we seem to really have a hard time orchestrating a good break. This year, a lot of times our break resulted into a pull up jumper or the dreaded pull up 3. It's funny coz this is supposed to be what they go over a lot in practice, I guess this where the lack of good decision makers come into play again.
Problem #4: Passing the Ball
Need I say more?
This is one of the reasons I strongly think Nellie should at least be getting the hot seat. Whether it is him or the players who's not showing enough commitment to basic things mentioned above, I believe it's too late to all of a sudden fix those things, especially when it's fundamental basketball.
The team might be better once Monta comes back but if that's the reason we're keeping Nellie that's kind of scary. Teams find ways to win without their stars and Monta is not even a bonafide superstar yet we're constantly losing by double digits.
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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basically sums up all of the warriors’ weaknesses:
passing, defense, and rebounding.
by gorillas on Dec 7, 2008 10:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
So why....??????
If these are professional, highly paid sports atheltes, can they not work at this?
Finger is pointing more and more to whatthey are doing in practice and to who is taking the lead on these practice sessions.
many are calling for Smart or Moncrief to take Nellies place. I would not be surprised if ALL of the practice sessions are currently being run by these guys, while Nellie enjoys a Cuban and a glass of Scotch at home!
In fact, I would love to go sit and watch a proper practice to see what exactly they are focusing on right now.
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Dec 7, 2008 10:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Fundamentals are key...
…but, I will repeat myself. The Warriors don’t need any help with their pick and roll, fast break, or passing. They are the 2nd highest scoring team in the entire NBA. That means they score a lot, in fact more than 30 other teams people!
The Warriors need to learn how to play fundamental defense-point blank. If they played intense defense, it would help generate more turnovers for more passing and fast breaks. It also makes it so they don’t have to walk up the ball on offense for a set offense as opposed to playing good D for a rebound or turnover to start the fast break. It’s a win-win situation. The Dubs hold teams to fewer points AND score more off of turnovers and rebounds.
by gabezgsw on Dec 8, 2008 11:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You may hate Hollinger, but…
They may score a lot, but it’s because they play faster than anybody but the Knicks. Their offensive efficiency isn’t anything special, so it could use some assistance. The pick and roll suggestion was for the Warriors to play better defense. Did you even read the post or are you too blind to read anything that isn’t in bold.
Just to make sure:
You may hate Hollinger, but…
They may score a lot, but it’s because they play faster than anybody but the Knicks. Their offensive efficiency isn’t anything special, so it could use some assistance. The pick and roll suggestion was for the Warriors to play better defense. Did you even read the post or are you too blind to read anything that isn’t in bold.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 8, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is a common error for people to confuse point total with the quality of an offense.
by jae on Dec 8, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically
The warriors are not playing good basketball. I’m willing to say UNC could beat us. No actually i’m saying it. UNC would beat us.
by MopedSafetyPlease on Dec 8, 2008 11:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think that's a little excessive, but a valid point...
We’re not that bad.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 8, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bold statement
But we’ll have to go through the Thunder first, NBA’s college team.
by lightz0ut on Dec 8, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We won!!!
I still think that the “Recent NCAA Star Alums” can beat an all star team made up of current college stars. Durant? Jeff Green? Westbrook? Yep.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 8, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Masshole
I get your point now that you put everything in bold for me. Imagine if you weren’t around to show Bollinger’s hyper analytic gibberish that doesn’t translate to the big picture.
The Warriors average 105 points a game whether its from granny style half court chucks to " The Hoosier Hickory" style offense where you pass the ball 5 times before you shoot it. 105 points is 105 points! Hollinger’s efficiency report doesn’t mention that the Warriors give up 111 points. That’s the issue with them, not how efficient they are on offense. It’s their defense, or lack there of that is giving them so many problems. They play any sort of defense above what they’ve been doing and they would have more wins. I know it sounds very simple, but it really is as simple as that-you don’t need a statistical report to see that…
by gabezgsw on Dec 8, 2008 2:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You should really try to keep your replies nested...
If you, Sleepy, OM, JAE, and myself went out there, sprinted down the court, and threw up a three when we got to the 3pt line, we could still get to 105. We might give up 300, but we’d score. The issue is how efficient they are. If you look one column to the right of the gray column, you’ll see that Hollinger’s efficiency report DOES say how they give up 111, by letting their opponents be more efficient than them. Maybe I should make it easier for you again (since I’m a Masshole and all):
Look! We’re the second worst team defensively in terms of efficiency!!! Not the worst! Not even the worst in our division!
My point was that there is certainly improvement to be made on the offensive side. If you read the second half of my paragraph, you’d have noticed that the OP’s post about the pick and roll was about that defensive point you were just making. You really need to start reading the whole post before you take things out of context.
Hey look what I can do:
they don’t have to walk up the ball on offense for a set offense
What the heck are you talking about? Do you even watch Warriors basketball? They always try to fast break! You want me to read the rest of your sentence? Cali-hole.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 9, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They always try to fast break!
And not that effective I might add. If you’ve seen the Thunder game you know what I’m talking about.
Durant can do by himself what the Warriors can’t on a 2 on 1: score an easy bucket.
by lightz0ut on Dec 9, 2008 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you sir..
I will never keep my replies nested when someone calls me out saying I’m blind and need bold letters to read.
Let’s agree to disagree that an efficiency report illustrates why the Dubs are a poor team right now. I might differ from you in that I don’t care how we score (your report from Hollinger). The end result is that they give up 105 a game-period. As you mentioned anyone, I guess, can score 105 points including JAE and others, so how and who scores doesn’t interest me at all. The Dubs atop the NBA in scoring 3 years running now and usually do when Nellie is the coach.
My concern is on the defensive side. I come from the school of thought that defense creates offense. Look back to the ’07 Dubs when they went like 15 out of 20 and had their run against Dallas and Utah. Their defense had so much energy and focus that it resulted in more rebounds, blocks and steals. Because of that, their points off the fast break and points in the paint escaladed to a point where they were beating teams easier than they had beforehand. The Warriors stink when they walk the ball up the court from a made shot by the other team. Their defense generates their fast break up tempo style of ball. With that being said, that’s the reason I keep saying their defense needs to step it up, not what players are out there, because whatever poll or statistical data you may get, they score 105+ points a game, which by the way is 2nd highest in the entire NBA.
I’m just tired of the focus people put on the offense when it’s glaringly obvious that it’s their defense or lack there of that separates them from a poor team to a good one…
Hustle on D and rest on O
by gabezgsw on Dec 9, 2008 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you even read what I write?
Or the OP? Seriously.
Gabez – “OMG YOU GUYS DONT GET IT!!! WE NEED BETTER DEFENSE!!!”
DFIB – “Well that’s true, but our offense isn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread either”
You’re using the wrong metric to measure offensive performance. I’ll say it again, a team that has 10% more possessions should score 10% more points to be considered an equally good offense. Measure an offense by “on any given possession, how well do they score points”, and for the Warriors, that’s NOT #2 in the league, it’s in the middle. They score more because they 5% more possessions than the average team. If you don’t like those measures, how bout these:
They’re 19th in FG%
They’re 29th in 3pt%
They’re 29th in Assists/game (NOT pace adjusted)
They’re 22nd in FT%
I don’t see how anybody in their right mind could ever look at those percentages and come up with “Well, they must be the second best offense in the league!” You’re flat out wrong. The defense stinks up the joint, but it’s not the only area the Warriors need to work on. They suck. A lot. On both ends of the court.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 9, 2008 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh
And the Warriors are #11 in rebounds/game. That’s above average! Does that mean they’re a good rebounding team? No, they’re also have the 2nd worst rebounding differential. What could possibly give them all those rebounds, even though they’re not a very good rebounding team when compared to all the other teams they’ve played? Oh, I know! There are more rebounds to go around when teams take more shots by playing a faster game!
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 9, 2008 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just figured it out...
You’re a stat head. I’m more of a win is a win is a win kind of guy. If the Dubs score more than 99% of the league their offense doesn’t have much to worry about. Stat freaks that pick everything apart might worry about non relevant data, but I don’t.
You don’t win games by number crunching. You win by scoring more points than the other team. The Dubs score more points then 99% of the league. I ain’t worried about their "pace" or “rebounding rate” or any other formulaic BS you throw at me. My concern is them not getting scored on as much as they do. At least we agree the Dubs suck right now. No Baron, Monta and Harrington has taken a toll on them.
by gabezgsw on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're
Something that I think would get me warned by GSoM, so I’m not going to say it. You make no sense, you ignore common sense. You’re ridiculous. I’m going to stop responding to you. Enjoy thinking that a team that shoots in the bottom half of the league is a good offense. Enjoy it.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Dec 10, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fast break and Defense
Problem is, we lost our wing defenders and our best defenders are now in the front court.
We also lost our best open court players. Not just Baron and Monta, but Barnes’ outlet pass, and Pietrus are also a factor.
We still have guys like Buike and Maggette who can finish on the rim but they don’t have someone to split the defender correctly so they end up getting fouled or missing a should’ve been easy layup.
CJ, imo, is the best we have as a defender right now in terms of getting steals. But he is not as fast as Monta or as crafty as Baron. Nor does he play that much to really set the tempo of the game.
by lightz0ut on Dec 10, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Best Defense is a Great Offense
The first two points I mentioned cover the defensive side. It’s no secret they need help in that department.
But having a more efficient offense should be an issue for the Warriors. It doesn’t matter how many point the Warriors score on average, it is more important to consider that every game the Warriors play, the opposition will get nearly the same amount of shots. Because we’re shooting a much lower percentage than our opponents, it’s no surprise we’re losing.
Now, one way to stop this is of course lower the other team’s shooting% and we do need to make an effort of closing the gap on the defensive end. But, we can also close the difference by shooting a higher percentage which can come from better execution on fast break and moving the ball to get better shots.
I’m not a stats guy but here’s a good barometer to show that we need to make an effort to better not only our defense but our offense as well.
2007-2008
Warriors
Possessions per game: 99
FG% : .460
eFG%: .511
Opponents
Possessions per game: 99
FG% : .468
eFG%: .509
THIS SEASON
Warriors
Possessions per game: 98
FG% : .445
eFG%: .477
Opponents
Possessions per game: 99
FG% : .470
eFG%: .511
Contrary to how it looks like on the court this team is not much worse defensively in terms of giving up points to the opposition. It just looks as if teams are scoring much easier on us this year, but we’re giving up around the same amount of points.
However, our offense has taken a significant dip compared to last season. Last season we didn’t win because we shut down opponents, we won because we pulled the right amount of stop but more importantly, we were just as efficient as the opposition and on some nights, even better.
by lightz0ut on Dec 8, 2008 4:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Defensive Rotations have a been a problem too...
It frustrates the crap out of me when I the opposing team swings the ball around to an open 3pt shooter and we get burned. I dont know what it is, but we cant seem to rotate quick enough to close out on 3pt shooters. I think defending the 3pt line is one of the warriors big defensive liabilities.
by Butt Secks on Dec 8, 2008 5:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
After tonight's game
Can you really tell me the Warriors should not work more on how to run the break? Like Barnett said though, they seem to go over this alot. So I guess, it’s more the players than the system.
Also, isn’t good ball movement effective but also a joy to watch. Let’s hope SJax and especially Maggette is watching and taking notes.
by lightz0ut on Dec 8, 2008 8:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
It’s clear that when the team relies on and executes fundamental basketball, they have better success. Maggette and Stephen Jackson combined is the antithesis of fundamental. I won’t knock Jackson too much because I know he tries and his triple threat is pretty fundamental, but he needs to learn to keep the ball moving.
Hopeless Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Dec 9, 2008 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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