Roy vs. BD, a Blazer fan's perspective

by bradderup on Feb 1, 2008 4:23 AM PST Comment 46 comments

First, let me start by saying I am not at the defense of any Blazers Edge posters negatively stereotyping or generalizing the Golden State community in other diaries. It's tasteless, immature, and just plain false. I started a new diary in hopes of generating a more positive, knowledgeable debate concerning Roy vs. BD and the All-Star game.

When I found out Roy made the All-Star team, of course I was excited for the ambassador of Northwest basketball. But minutes later, as it began to sink in, I realized the inevitable criticism awaiting. As an objective NBA fan, if it were up to me, I would have given the nod to your superstar, one Baron Davis. He is ahead of Roy in almost every major statistical category. His team has a slightly better record. His team dethroned the NBA Championship favorite Dallas Mavericks in 2007 (which certainly deserves more consideration). He is the maestro of a tremendous Bay Area basketball comeback. He is truly the definition of an All-Star.

But that said, one must objectively consider more abstract, emotionally based arguments for Brandon Roy, which I admit a bit unfair. At 24, Roy Wonder has lead the third youngest team in NBA history into playoff contention. He is highlighting this years "NBA feel-good story". He has single handedly clinched numerous Blazer conquests on defense and on offense. He is more unselfish than Baron Davis, even with a weaker supporting cast. He is more old school, and more unassertive than BD. As Baron is to the Bay, Roy too, is the maestro of a tremendous Rip City comeback.

But it IS unfair GSoM! You haven't had a representative in ages! Your player has better numbers than mine! My response?

Someone has to get snubbed.

We, as fans, have already had our say in the All-Star game. Neither of our players were voted starters and were left in a battle-royal for the reserve spots. So it was left to the coaches, and I believe they voted Roy over Baron for some reason; presumably the exposition I reconciled for Roy above.

In the end, it all boils down to the fact that the Portland Trail Blazers are exceeding expectations at an astronomical rate. Thus far, our season has been more special than yours, despite the two game difference in wins. The votes came down to a team vs. team battle, resulting in the more team-first oriented player being voted in to represent this special season.

As stated above GSoM'ers, someone had to get snubbed. And this year, unfortunately, it was you. Baron Davis deserved to be an All-Star. I hope this lights a fire under B'did and the Warriors and I'm sure you can at least agree with that.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

I can't wait til we play the Blazers

Roy is good. And he should get some credit for getting the Jailblazers to the 9th or 10th seed.

But I have no idea how a coach can look at Roy and Baron and choose Roy. It baffles me. It makes no sense. Even Nate's comments make no sense.

Some times the all-star selection isn't about numbers. But if you look at the numbers (team record, individual averages) or don't look at the numbers, BD should've been the pick.

by warriordean on Feb 1, 2008 4:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Honestly

I saw the Roy-as-All-Star pick, more than anything, as a nod to the unexpected team success that the Blazers are having. If you compare in a vacuum, yeah, BD is having a better year and the Warriors are too, I agree. But after ousting the Mavs, seeing Boom-Dizzle's coming-out party on national TV, and returning every rotation player from last year's playoff team, the expectations were a lot higher for you guys this year than they were for the Blazers.

Through no fault of your own, you've only met those expectations, not shattered them like the Blazers have done (only cuz the national media doesn't really know what they're talking about really and so our bar was artificially low). So in comparison what BD has done doesn't look as impressive as the Roybot's contributions, because everybody and their uncle had written off the Blazers after we traded Stat-Bo and Oden went down. So it's not necessarily a player-to-player comparison or a team-against-team comparison, but "where that player and that team are relative to where we, the coaches, thought they'd be". I'm not trying to justify that rationale; I'm just positing it as a likelihood.

Finally, the West is just sick this year. It's not like Davis is in shoddy company -- Marion, Camby, Howard, Parker, Ginobli, Williams, Chandler, and Kaman all aren't All-Stars. ALL of those guys have had All-Star-worthy seasons. If Davis had made it over Roy, Roy would've been a snub too. It's just unfortunate that the All-Star rosters aren't 18-deep instead of 12.

Burying the hatchet gets my vote! After all, the enemy of my enemy (the hated L*kers) is my friend (y'all).

by BlazersOrBust on Feb 1, 2008 5:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In all respect

to the Blazers having an amazing season and exceeding expectations, I don't see anything besides some kind of record shattering win streak to be more impressive than an 8th seeded team defeating a 1 first seed, in convincing fashion, in a seven game series (the first time it has ever happened).

Roy's game is not doubted but I seriously think there is something wrong with the way the coaches looked at this scenario. Anyway, hope Roy handles his buisness come the ASG. Congrats to Roy yes he deserved this, but like you said not over Baron Davis. Thanks for your insight.

by RubberDubDubs on Feb 1, 2008 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No J-Rich

is gone

I don't know that I agree with the supporting cast comments either. The Warriors have almost no inside game and a weak bench

If the Warriors make it far into the playoffs it is because of an MVP like season from Baron Davis. He has this whole team on his shoulders

by Zig on Feb 1, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh --

crap. I knew I was forgetting somebody important from that team and I was too lazy to go back and check it out. My bad.

by BlazersOrBust on Feb 1, 2008 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

uh, short memory

Maybe you don't remember the first 2 games we played this year when The Warriors couldn't come close to beating the Blazers??? C'mon, get real.

by mark twain on Feb 1, 2008 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

gettin real

Yes the Blazers DID kill the W's last time they played.. but you guys basically played against the W's second unit..

BD/Biedrins: 13min
Jax/Harrington: 16min
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Apj15Zcx9IH_EY3rHesu3nOQvLYF?gid=2008010922

I don't know why Nelson didn't play the starters more.. but if he did, the outcome will most likely have been different

Sup Big Perrrmm!.. i mean big worm

by Spree4Threee on Feb 1, 2008 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They had a melt down

I'm a Blazer fan and I want the Blazers to win, but even I was embarrassed for Warrior fans. Baron and Jackson just took themselves completely out of the game that day. Jackson has had at least 3 meltdowns in Portland over this season and the end of last, so I guess he hates clouds and indy music. But yeah-- the starters didn't play because they didn't seem to want to play.

So Nelson, to teach them a lesson, sat the starters and played guys like CJ Watson. I'm glad they did, because CJ showed he could play and is now signed for the rest of the year (right?). Even Brandon Wright got to show off how damn skinny he is (Jesus Christ he's skinny! Damn!)

How the game went: Blazers went into offensive dynamo Jor-El Pryzbilla and he scored a few times against the smaller Warriors. Then other Blazers got hot and started hitting 3's. The Warriors kept shooting bad jumpers, and then complaining to the refs and not playing defense. Blazers build a big lead, and Nelly sits the starters.

The bench starts to come back, Nelly puts the starters back in, and they still don't got it. Nelly sits them again and the Blazers coast to a win.

THIS GAME, if the starters play their normal minutes, it mighta ended up even worse. They took themselves out.

Not saying this will happen next time, just clarifying what happened last time.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Feb 1, 2008 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That was the game where Blake

couldn't miss and the Warriors couldn't hit. The starters played, got beat down, and left. I was glad they got benched. They didn't want to show up.

by belilaugh on Feb 1, 2008 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

EXTRA CHEESE

Can we retire "Jailblazers," like, forever? It smacks terribly of racial insensitivity and presumptuousness.

by leee on Feb 1, 2008 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No dude

I don't know how its "racial insensitivity" But that era of Blazers basketball was ridiculous

--Rasheed, Pippen, Damon Stoudamire, Arvydas Sabonis, Steve Smith, Detlef... damn...

Sup Big Perrrmm!.. i mean big worm

by Spree4Threee on Feb 1, 2008 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If you're trying to cite

Arvydas and Steve Smith (who won the NBA's good citizenship award) as examples of "Jailblazers", you're gonna have to look a little bit harder.

by BlazersOrBust on Feb 1, 2008 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What about that time

That Detlef stabbed Sabonis in the ear for stealing his toaster, and Steve Smith ran them both over in his Acura but didn't wait for the police to show up? If Paul Allen didn't own every judge in the Northwest, all of them would still be in jail.

And don't get me started on Steve Kerr's child porn dungeon on his private island off the coast of Oregon. If Rasheed hadn't smoked pot (which is worse than child porn obviously), everyone would know about how Kerr really is. What a creep.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Feb 1, 2008 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

lmao!

Post of the year.

by xcoma on Feb 1, 2008 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

OMG

hahahahah I gotta check this out for myself!!!...right on for the info...

by RubberDubDubs on Feb 1, 2008 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hahaha

over my head...disregard the previous post! =X

by RubberDubDubs on Feb 1, 2008 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

question

Does Broy get to play in the rook/soph game and the all star game. If that is the case then I can see the snub as being legitimate.

by highflya on Feb 1, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Snubbed

Roy hasnt earned the right to be an All-Star yet. It's like baseball when someone has a great 1st half and makes it over a stud because its a "feel good" story and then sucks in the 2nd half. Baron has deserved to go. He was snubbed last year but after ousting the best team in the league in the playoffs and putting up crazy #s this year, he deserved to go. And NOTHING in your arguments will sway me of that. He didnt get voted cause coaches dont like him. plain and simple.

by Grandma on Feb 1, 2008 6:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

So then you do agree with me...

One of my arguments was that Roy was more old school and less assertive than BD, especially comparing their on the court mannerisms. Of course I love Roy's steadiness. But I'm of a younger generation than most people on here, so I love BD's swagger. I like players that have a little cockiness to them. And with that swagger, he's still a great off-the court guy, I even read his yardbarker blog.

But you touched a good point. Despite Roy being the one voted in, was Baron snubbed because the coaches don't like him?

by bradderup on Feb 1, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

People don't like the Warriros

or Baron

Baron dissed and basically quit on the Hornets 3 years a go and, oh look where the All Star game is this year

Coincidence?

by Zig on Feb 1, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Like we've all been saying for a while

The reason Jason Kidd and Wade get picked, the reason Yao gets 10 million votes, and the reason BD/Roy didn't get picked are the same. It's a popularity contest. BD has historically been difficult with coaches, so that hurts him there. The Blazers are a feel good story, so it's nice to have one of them so the announcers can talk about how great they are. And to top it all off, the Blazers have cleaner our clocks twice already. Roy is an "up and comming" player who'll be expected to make multiple all star games in the coming years, so it makes sense to get people used to the idea of him going to the game.

As long as everybody still understands that the all star game is what it is (a popularity contest where Luis Scola had more votes than BD at one point). I'm not being bitter, I could care less frankly, it's just stupid to be sad about BD missing the game. Do you really need some guys from NY or LA validating your favorite team/player?

Congrats to Roy, I hope he goes to many All Star games in the future and I hope he gets to the WCF as many times as possible (with the obvious loss to the NBA Champs, the Warriors, duh).

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 1, 2008 8:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Baron is the better player right now

I don't even think it's that close. Baron's +/- is 10.4 points (top ten in the league), Roy is 4.5 point, which is the worst of any of the All-Stars (except for Kidd and Hamilton), although still very good for the league.

I agree that the problem is perception. I think more so than Baron's personality, it is the perception of how good his teammates are. I think in Roy's case, his teammates are underrated, and in Baron's case, his teammates are overrated, particuarly S-Jax. In fact, I was just reading a chat with one of the ESPN writers where he wondered if Baron is even the best player on the Warriors. And Marc Stien called Jackson co-conference MVP.

It's not that the Warriors teammates aren't decent or pretty good, I just think Roy's teammates are much better than perceived, mostly because they are young and unknown.

by San Francisco Slim on Feb 1, 2008 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This surprises me

I don't get to watch any Warriors games, so all I know is what I read and what the box score says. SJax is overrated? He's almost 20-5-5 and has the reputation as being one of the toughest perimeter defenders in the league, and you guys took off once he came back. I'm not arguing with you, obviously you'd know, but I'm more taken aback that he's perceived as overrated.

by BlazersOrBust on Feb 1, 2008 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If anything...

people around here get a little frustrated with his shot selection and turnovers. Last I checked he was shooting around 40% and 33% from three, which can be tough to take as a fan when you have Monta, Baron, and Al shooting better from the field and getting frozen out of the offense for stretches while Jack has the green light to iso and take early threes whenever he feels like it.

Overall we take the good with the bad (most of us love the guy) , but a quick look at his per game stats doesn't tell the whole story. He can be tough to watch at times.

. WERD

by olympicmike on Feb 1, 2008 8:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Roy...

got picked cuz he just happened to be the best player on the team that has been the story of the first half. Really though, his team's overall surprise run (which is over, and the blazers will play around .500 for the rest of the season and miss the playoffs), has less two do with Roy and more to do with everyone else getting hot at the same time. People just had to give the credit to someone...

Seriously though, Roy just disappears for games. He's not essential in the Blazers system like Baron is.

by kinetic on Feb 1, 2008 8:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Just two things...

"Seriously though, Roy just disappears for games. He's not essential in the Blazers system like Baron is."

He does not. And he is. Look, I love bantering with people from other blogs. I don't have a monopoly on basketball knowledge, that's for sure. But dude, at least know what you're talking about. Go to Blazer's Edge and run that idea up the flagpole, see who salutes. The Blazers are nothing right now without Roy -- he's the motor, heart, and soul of that team.

by BlazersOrBust on Feb 1, 2008 10:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ridiculous

Thus far, our season has been more special than yours, despite the two game difference in wins.

I appreciate the warm fuzziness but your season is more "special"? First of all, that's from your perpective. Secondly, that's not even correct. I would say that ours is. Quickest team in nba history to come back to .500 from 0-6. Best road record for the warriors in 15 years. We've got Chris Webber back in town which will be interesting to watch.

The blazers are the youngest team in the association and what they've done is nuts. But the season doesn't end at the all star break. And the season series doesn't end at two games.

See you soon.

by GameSix on Feb 1, 2008 9:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's not just my perspective

- "Quickest team in NBA history to come back to .500 from 0-6.

Do you think that is more impressive than the third youngest team in NBA HISTORY winning 13 games in a row? If we're bragging about inconsistency here, the Blazers started out losing 3, winning 4, losing 9 of 10, winning 13, then playing slightly above .500. 0-6 isn't THAT bad, most teams (elites aside) in the NBA will lose at least 4 in a row at some point.

- "Best road record for the Warrior's in 15 years"

How could this be their best road record in 15 years if we're only halfway through the season? Do you mean up to this point? So the Warrior's season is more special than the Trail Blazers this year, because this is the best road record they've had to this point in the season, is 15 years?

I can't find the records for the first and second youngest teams in NBA history, but I promise the Blazers have already surpassed those win totals already at the mid-point in the season. We were picked the favorite to land another awesome lottery pick this season. We lost our leading rebounder and scorer, and a great defender in Ime Udoka, only to gain James Jones, Channing Frye, and Steve freaking Blake.

We were 5-12 at one point this season yo.

by bradderup on Feb 1, 2008 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thaha.

No, but seriously. We have already matched our road wins last year. and added 3 or 4 iirc.

by xcoma on Feb 1, 2008 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

they've played, at their own admissions

WAY above expectations, albeit everyone...everyone...FOR HALF A SEASON, and now, AT THE HALFWAY MARK, sitting in 9th, consider themselves to be "in playoff contention." 9th, at the halfway mark, after playing way beyond fathomable expectation, is "playoff contention"?

wow. no one doing scientific statistical analysis excepts that little sample data as proof of ANYTHING.

it would be nice if we could avoid making this about BD vs. Roy, 'cuz i don't think any of us really want to hate on the guy. i loved his pac-10 career, loved that he stayed in school, love that you could put his toothy grin on childrens' products and no parent would think twice about buying them.

but since the statistical analysis doesn't hold up for Roy, and frankly, the Portland market is not one the NBA needs (not one representative from SAC or GS, in a significantly more national market), this is an easy one to chalk up to the further "sterilizing" of the NBA's cultural aesthetic (paging Dave Zirin). Read it as a consolation trophy from "the League" for cleaning up the JailBlazers.

Baron's just a little too brash, his individuality just a little too conspicuous, our play just a little too unconventional, our smiles not quite pearly white enough.

what a contradiction, as the all-star game heads back to NO, a city that fits Baron to the "T". Baron IS Jazz.

by 321 IN n OUT on Feb 1, 2008 9:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

ugh

i think roy deserves it, but im tired of people saying it's because the blazers beat the warriors twice this year, as if that's a valid argument. i mean if that's the case, then knowing what the warriors did to the mavs in the playoffs, we should have baron davis in the game over nowitzki. i know that was last year, but still, the leader of our team brang victory to the warriors and dirk couldnt stop him. let's just cool it with the blazers beating the warriors line of evidence, it's just doesn't compute. all in all, roy deserves to be there, but david west over baron davis? i mean that's a travesty.

by bigbenny11 on Feb 1, 2008 9:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Come on people

Lay off the hate. There's plenty of reason Baron didn't make it to the All-Star game in NEW ORLEANS (remember his warm and fuzzy reception there a couple days ago) but don't hate on the other people who did make it...Get pissed off at the Blazers Edge kids who were spewing vitriol at our community but Roy is a stand-up guy and a great player. Was BD more worthy? Probably. But he's not going. Portland runs a good franchise and Baron was the big snub this year (and every year there's always a big snub). Just let it roll. We can't change anything except people's perceptions of GSoM, and all the crying about how we were cheated might be doing that...

then we will fight in the shade.

by Swamp Thing on Feb 1, 2008 10:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Probably?

Like I said before if this team keeps playing like they have after that 0-6 start Baron is having an MVP like season

Look at this team, at the bigs, at the bench and tell me otherwise. He has the whole team on his shoulders

by Zig on Feb 1, 2008 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It isn't fair

But it's very simple: Baron's reputation kept him out of the allstar game. He forced his way out of New Orleans so he could be a Warrior, and because of this he won't soon be voted by coaches to be an allstar. But, obviously, because of this he's a Warrior! So which would ya rather have? Baron as an unhappy soldier in New Orleans and an allstar, or Baron as a Warrior and not an allstar?

While the Blazer fan in me is happy Roy made it, it is ultimately a meaningless reward. Roy is on a surprise team, has nice all round numbers (not as nice as Baron, obviously), is a coach's DREAM, it makes sense the coaches would vote for him.

We can debate back and forth about attributes that extend beyond the numbers, but both fan groups feel like their guy is a better leader and puts the team on his back all the time. Both players do all of that of course, but one comes saddled with a past rep and one is on one of the surprise teams of the year.

(It also doesn't help that the Dubs came back to their winning ways after FreeJaxx came back-- though I'd never say he was more important than Baron. But to people (even coaches) not paying attention, they might attribute the great record to Jackson and not Baron.)

This isn't fair to Baron, Josh Howard, Camby, Deron, etc, but there were only so many spots. Utah has underplayed, Camby would be 3 allstars from one non-elite team, Josh Howard was a victim of the numbers game, and Baron has the coach-killing past. Obviously, this franchise killing brought him to you in the Bay so I'm sure you'll take the price of not having an allstar to have a great talent like Baron.

The mistake is thinking this is Warriors VS Blazers-- it's Baron VS his own past. And everytime Baron takes a night off (like he does sometimes), non-Warrior fans and coaches remember the bad side of Baron.

Baron gets a much needed weekend off, and kids like West and Roy get to feel special. But I'll trade 500 all star games for the playoffs, and so would you. I know it's easy for me to say it's not a big deal because my boy made it, but it really isn't a big deal.

You gotta take the good with the bad with Baron and Jackson. That means no coaches voting them into the allstar game, but it means you have a very fun team to watch for 82 games (plus playoffs). That's a fair trade off.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Feb 1, 2008 10:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Mortimer!

No hard feelings to BE but alot of us had to react the way we did here at GSoM (we haven't had an All Star since Spree in 97)...

All I can say is this (your post) is the truth and a very good way of putting everything into perspective...

by RubberDubDubs on Feb 1, 2008 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand the reaction

Baron should be an allstar. The Warriors haven't had an allstar since Spree. I also don't like how some Blazers Edge posters scoffed at GSOM's reaction, but I know a lot of the scoffing was done in jest (of course, some wasn't, and those are the ones that annoy me).

I'm fine with the venting, as I'd be angry too if I was a Warrior fan. I know some would be upset if Roy didn't make it, but overall I don't think most of us thought he would make it. Roy had snub written all over him-- despite the recent press he isn't a "name" player, lesser numbers than others, and the fact that there are about a dozen great guards who could be allstars and it not be a travesty.

GSoM thought Baron would make it, he deserved to make it, so it hurts. As a Blazer fan who also likes the Warriors (and Warrior fans), I am just trying to do my part to turn this away from Baron vs Roy because I really don't think it came down like that.

Since Baron is a PG and Roy a SG (who also plays point), I'd say Nash and Paul took Baron's place if we gotta make it player VS player... though I still maintain no matter what that the coaches just might not like Baron's rep.

As a side note, THE Austin Croshere lived in my building last off-season down here in LA and once I got his mail accidentally and since he and Baron went to high school together, it basically makes me related to Baron. And through our strong Croshere-related connection, he knows it was his rep that did him in but he's happy for the rest and relaxation.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Feb 1, 2008 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're welcome here anytime...

Between your close ties to Croshere and in depth knowledge of Kerr's dungeon (you've never been locked up down there have you?), you've made my day much merrier. And to top it off, you're a reasonable fan, not a homer (lord knows we have too many of those, especially here in Boston).

For the all star game, I'm in the "wake me up till it's merit based" boat. So as long as JKidd makes it this year, T-Mac almost made it, and Yao beat out Shaq his rookie year, I'm going to watch something else. It's all just a bunch of goofing around anyways... which is fun when I'M doing it on the court, but not so much watching it on TV.
Props to Roy for making it, I'm sure he'll be there for the next dozen years between the quality of play and the new-found name recognition. I just don't want to hear about another iRoy... made me throw up in my mouth a little.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 1, 2008 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Lots of WC guards should be All-Stars

Baron. Roy. Manu. Parker. Paul. Nash. Kobe.
Iverson. Deron Williams.

There's only 5-6 slots available (coaches went with 5, adding another forward rather than going with 6 guards), and at least 9 worthy candidates; more if you start throwing guys like T-Mac into the mix.

SOMEBODY had to get screwed.

Baron was that somebody--or one of them (Ginobili has a good beef as well). There seems to be the consensus that Roy was the screwer--Kobe and AI are the fans choices, and Paul and Nash seem to be consensus "locks" whose presence nobody disputes, so second-year guy Roy is the one standing in the way of the All-Star dreams of Baron, D-Will, and Manu.

Whose better, among Roy or Baron? Were the Warriors to offer a trade straight up, I (as a Blazer fan) wouldn't make it. I suspect that many of you wouldn't either. Baron has the better stats; Brandon, I think, has the better intangibles--but by definition, that's hard to measure.

Do be assured of one thing, though--if Baron did get snubbed; he got beat by someone worthy of the honor. It ain't as if Baron's All-Star spot was taken up by a Raja Bell. Brandon Roy does deserve to go, there's no doubt that.

The only question is who deserves it more--and this question probably will take a long time to answer.

by EngineerScotty on Feb 1, 2008 12:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

So

just because they have played above expectations Brandon Roy should get All Star status? That doesnt make sense. Youre saying that peoples INCORRECT expectations is what should count in all star voting? You are only as good as what your record and numbers show. Just because nobody expected you to be as good as you did doesnt mean youre better than somebody putting up better numbers. Everybody expected the Celtics to be good right? They didnt pass anyones expectations, so should they not get an all star? Of course not! Nobody expected Mike Dunleavy to have the season he is having! Should Mike Dunleavy be an all star? Of course not. The all star should be the better player PERIOD, and not the better player relative to their expected value. Thats like saying CJ Watson should be an allstar, people expected him to play in the Dleague before he got called up. Now hes in the NBA, no all star there either. The better player here is Baron Davis, the statistics and standings prove it. He got snubbed because of some biased coaches out there and everyone knows it. Dont try to make up some sentimental crap to explain Roy's nod for the game.

by ilubthedubs on Feb 1, 2008 1:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

That ain't the reason

Roy isn't All-Star worthy because the Blazers are playing above expectations.

He's All-Star worthy because he's playing like an All-Star. He does what it takes for the team to win. Other than last Wednesday's game against Cleveland (in which Roy met his match--some dude named LeBron), he owns the fourth quarter, and has administered fourth-quarter schoolings to guys like Carmelo Anthony, Joe Johnson, and even the fellow he is most often compared to--Dwyane Wade. He's easily one of the top 20 players in the NBA this season; most assuredly in the top 15. The trouble is--so is Kobe. So is Baron. So is Nash. So is Paul. So is Iverson. The WC is so deep with guards, someone has to get screwed.

Baron, out of the above list, got slighted by the coaches. Why? I've no idea. Maybe they don't like him.

But again--Baron Davis didn't just lose an All-Star spot to some scrub. He lost it to a guy who is worthy of the honor. If the ASG honored the best 24 guys in the game regardless of conference, both Baron and Roy would be locks.

If it makes you feel better--last season many Blazer fans thought that Zach Randolph got hosed--this year, the idea of Zach (or any Knick) at the All-Star game seems laugable.

by EngineerScotty on Feb 1, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thing is

that i could give you many reasons that baron should make it over Broy. But the only reason this poster could give is because the Blazers have had a season that out-performed expectations. If you look at my original response, this is what im arguing against. you say "that aint the reason", well thats what im saying too. But the original poster of this diary IS saying that IS the reason, and thats why im responding like i am.
"In the end, it all boils down to the fact that the Portland Trail Blazers are exceeding expectations at an astronomical rate." - origianl poster
Im just arguing against this logic here. You cant reward someone for playing better than they were expected to play when there are other people playing better than he is. Look at the stats. Look at the standings. What else do you need to know?

by ilubthedubs on Feb 1, 2008 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You misinterpreted my point

The reasons I stated above were not why I personally think Roy is an All-Star over Baron. I think these were the reasons why he was voted over Baron. If you noticed my tone in the post, I believe your player deserved it more than Roy. My purpose was to try and find the reason WHY Roy was voted over Baron. There has to be some reason Roy was voted over Baron ilub, and I credited the Blazers success, Baron reputation, and other things as to why.

by bradderup on Feb 1, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What people overlook

is how the pace at which these teams play affects the players' numbers. The warriors, being one of the fastest teams in the league, get more opportunities to score, rebound, pass, and play defense in a given game than the Blazers.

I'm by no means defending the pick of Roy over Baron, just making a point that looking at the per game numbers can be misleading.

The player who leasts deserves to be in that game representing the west is obviously David West. If you replaced Baron and Harrington with David West and a PG comparable in talent to Harrington, the warriors would be thinking about next years lottery, not the playoffs. West is not a go-to guy, not a player whom teams gameplan against, and surely not someone who changes the dynamic of a game. Baron is all of those things, and I would argue that Roy is too.

by BingBluNT on Feb 1, 2008 1:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I like what

Tim Roye said about this SNUB. As everyone should know, the coaches pick the all star reserves. Obviously, Mike Dun Sr. didnt vote for Baron(his son was a crybaby) I dont think Byron Scott voted for Baron either because of their past problems. Geogre Karl might not voted for Baron because of their past from the USA team(at least thats what tim roye said.)

My own argument for Baron to get in is because Portland isnt good JUST becuase of Roy. A lot of others on that team have stepped up like Aldridge, Jack, Webster, James Jones to name some. They have alot of young guys that are getting better not just Brandon roy. He is good but he has a lot of help too.

If I were a coach, which im not (duh) I wouldve gave Baron the All-Star spot he deserved, and let Roy be rewarded with the Rook-Soph game.

GSW For Life

by duggie25 on Feb 2, 2008 11:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hey duggie25 do you got that sig wallpaper size?

And c'mon now its just an all star game but...

Baron should be picked for many reasons and some reasons for not being selected. Brandon Roy too. So lets do a little brainstorm shall we?

Why Baron should HAVE been selected:

-His numbers are better (Duh)
-Entertaining personality (All Star game is all about having FUN right?)
-Baron can be the hottest player in the NBA when hes got it going (Even ask the broadcasters, not just Jim & Bob)
-Helps engrave his team in history (Ask Dirk)
-The level of difficulty of shots (As well as ferocious dunks, ask AK)
-That clutch player who makes big shots (Watch W's games)
-Great defender (So strong can defend most positions)
-More handles than a truckers convention (Got that from 2k8 heh)
-Plus loves movies (I'm pretty sure there will be some stars in the building)

Some reasons possibly why he didn't get picked:

-Not the best of friends of most coaches (Byron, Mike, Avery to name some)
-Not the best of friends of most refs (Thus the T's)
-Although he gets hot, may get hot headed (Ask Croshere)
-Coaches don't want him to get booed in New Orleans (Wants a non-hostile audience. Like the SF baseball all-star game)
-Too many PGs already in the game for the West (Iverson, Nash, Paul)
-Or everyone just hates this damn thuggish Compton raised player in this damn thuggish Oakland team (Ha)

Why Broy got picked:

-Young (Rising star and what a better time to start then now when carrying his young team)
-Suprise and story of the 1st half of the NBA season (I was suprised too)
-Seems to be a fan favorite from all the national televised games during this hot streak (You guys can thank Gregory Oden)
-Though positive when all thought was lost when Oden was out for the season (Stepping up for the team along with Aldridge)
-Blazers haven't had an all-star for quite a while (Who better to pick then Roy)
-Chuck wanted him so badly (Maybe not really a good reason)

Why Broy shouldn't have been picked:

-Baron Davis
-Judged mainly on the hotstreak in the first half of the season (Where was this last year?)
-Numbers don't stack up with most of the all-stars (I don't wana waste my time looking for which players, I just know =))
-Should be looked at for at least one more year to see if he stays consistent with his team throughout the whole season (Then thats where you decide)

I would say more but I don't watch Blazers basketball nor do I look up Blazer information.

If there is anything anyone (Warrior or Blazer fan ) would like to add to the list be my guest.

GO WARRIORS!
blazers are coo.
FCK LAKERS!

by protac6 on Feb 2, 2008 10:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hehe everyone

is askin me for my webpin but i got the pic from Flickr. Sorry! You can use it if you like for your webpin, i dont mind. They also have it Wallpaper size, i think. Glad that you like it, BTW. Go Warriors!