Idea: 3-Way with SAC/NJ/GS

by jlagace on Feb 1, 2008 4:26 AM PST Comment 17 comments

GSW gets
Ron Artest (using TPE)

SAC gets
Jason Kidd
Darrell Armstrong

NJN gets
Mike Bibby
Beno Udrih
Spencer Hawes
#1 protected pick from SAC

The breakdown:

Jason Kidd realizes that his big contract makes it impossible for him to be traded to a contender, and relations are now sour for him in New Jersey, so he settles and goes to the Kings back near home in NorCal to team up with Kevin Martin, John Salmons, and Brad Miller.

New Jersey does the trade because that's the best they can get. They get a solid PG in return (Bibby), young talent on rookie contract (Hawes), and a backup PG / expiring contract in Armstrong, plus a first round pick next year from Sac, and they get immediate $6mil cap relief from the JRich TPE.

Sac does the trade because Artest is going to opt out no matter what, they've been trying to move Mike Bibby since forever, and JKidd is a huge improvement over Bibby. Plus it frees up minutes for John Salmons and Garcia (who both deserve more playing time).

GSW does it cuz we can't get anything else worth value with the TPE without worrying about our cap situation in the offseason. If Artest opts out in the offseason, then we get to rent him for the playoffs at least.

The Warriors can really help facilitate a trade with that huge TPE. The Nets and Sacramento won't deal straight up because the Nets have really no use for Artest position-wise, they'd rather have this nice juicy JRich TPE we're sitting on. Warriors need to get involved and profit from this situation.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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depth charts

NJN:
Bibby / MWilliams
VC / Wright
Jefferson / Nachbar
SWilliams / M Allen
Boone / J. Collins

SAC:
Kidd / Armstrong
Kevin Martin / Garcia
Salmons / Garcia
Moore / AbdurRahim
Miller / Moore

GSW:
Baron / Watson
Ellis / Artest
SJax / Artest
Artest / Harrington
Biedrins / Webber

by jlagace on Feb 1, 2008 4:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The move

really makes no sense for Sacramento or New Jersey. Sacramento wants young talent or expiring contracts for Bibby. That's a really bad trade for Sacramento. Bibby and Artest for Kidd?

New Jersey could get a better offer than Mike Bibby, some scrubs and a pick....a protected pick at that.

I applaud your effort, albeit only for a second, but this is another pro-GSW trade that would never happen.

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 1, 2008 8:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

man...

just totally irrational.

Why would Sac want an aging pg? So they can NEVER make the playoffs again? Would the Nets really take such low quality guys for Kidd? And wouldn't someone look at the trade and go, "holy crap, the Warriors are getting Artest for NOTHING?".

by kinetic on Feb 1, 2008 8:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The Nets

They're really in a tough position with their aging core not producing and wanting to be traded. I actually like this trade from their standpoint. They cut salary, get a good PG in return who can facilitate for Jefferson and Carter, get some young talent and a draft pick.

The Warriors obviously are giving away their first rounder (to Sac? You didn't mention it earlier.) for Artest for one year. Gives them a good shot at the playoffs this year, and if things click it could be a great foundation going forward... We'd only need to get Jermaine Oneal to complete the Malice Tri-fecta!

Where it falls apart though, is Sacramento. What do they get? They get rid of Artest, Bibby, and part of their future core (Udrih is solid, Hawes is supposed to be good, and they're giving a draft pick) for... Jason Kidd? He's not going to take them over the top and even put them in the playoffs. If I were Sacto, I'd prefer Artest for the GSW first rounder and see what Cleveland will give me for Bibby.

It was a valiant effort. It involves the Dubs and makes two teams happy... but it still falls apart with Sacto, I just don't see them going for this.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Feb 1, 2008 8:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

this might be

one of the most ridiculous trades ive ever seen

first off, why would the kings trade artest to the warriors, an interdivision rival. Not to mention, what do the warriors give up in this trade, i see absolutely nothing. Kidd would also probably refuse to go to the kings, who arent even close to become a contender. So its warriors getting artest for free, and the kings giving up everything in the world for 2 34+ year old pgs

by Thoang77 on Feb 1, 2008 9:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Correction

Armstrong is 47.

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 1, 2008 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

So Sac trades us Artest, a player likely to opt out and be no salary problem anyhow for...

by jae on Feb 1, 2008 11:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

clarification

SAC trades Artest so they can upgrade Mike Bibby to Jason Kidd (that's a HUGE upgrade). They're not going to get any value for Artest anyway when he opts out.

We don't get Artest for "nothing", we get him so that New Jersey or Sacramento (two teams that aren't making the playoffs) don't have the "luxury" of paying his salary at the end of the year. We give our "TPE SPace" up to New Jersey, because they have no use for Artest anyway. New Jersey gets immediate cap relief, an expiring, a replacement PG, and young talent on a rookie contract for giving up Kidd.

by jlagace on Feb 1, 2008 12:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

asdf

And this helps the Kings how? They get rid of Artest's expiring contract for JKidd's long term contract? The Kings aren't interested in Kidd one bit, they are rebuilding and the money that Kidd's contract would tie up wouldn't be helping them at all. They get rid of Hawes, their lottery pick from last year and they're giving up another #1 pick? No way man.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 1, 2008 12:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Jason Kidd

You don't think a guy that's been messing around, not trying and still nearly AVERAGING a triple double this year is worth anything?

Look at it this way, if SAC doesn't make the trade, Artest leaves anyway. They won't be under the salary cap, so they won't be able to make FA signings.

They're going to be left with this next year:

Bibby
Kevin Martin
Salmons
Moore
Miller

you're telling me they wouldn't rather have Jason Kidd over Mike Bibby?? They've been trying to get rid of Mike Bibby since last year too

by jlagace on Feb 1, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

asdf

You're completely missing my point, Kidd is a hell of a PG but he is worthless to the Kings because of his contract. What good would it be to take on his salary? All it would do is hinder their financial ability. It doesn't matter who they have at PG next year they still aren't going to make the playoffs. The Kings want young talent and expiring contracts, not a veteran PG with a big contract. Besides, let's just say that the Kings/Dubs/Nets were willing to do the trade, I believe Kidd can dictate where he goes and he surely isn't going to want to go to the Kings who have zero chance at the playoffs this year. I'm not sure why you don't get that Kidd really provides no help to the Kings.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 1, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

look at the newest diary

If you think these trade scenarios are ridiculous, then i would go look at the new diary that shows how Pau gasol was just traded for scraps and picks. Give Jglace a break. And while your at it I thought I would give you the KNBR link with Nellie. Its pretty good

http://media.knbr.com/knbr/nelson.mp3

by highflya on Feb 1, 2008 1:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Am I reading this right?

We get Artest giving up only our TPE?

"That's why Baron is Baron." -Bob Fitzgerald

by WarriorForLife on Feb 1, 2008 3:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

What happened

Earlier in the year when one well-respected poster here on GSoM (I won't name names) proposed we could get Artest for just the TPE and a pick if we really wanted to?

Now we're actually helping facilitate a 3-way deal with our TPE and people scream bloody murder?

Stranger things have happened recently in the NBA. Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown? Need I say more.

by jlagace on Feb 1, 2008 3:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

no...

first of all, the sac NJ aspects of the trade are dumb to begin with. The Kings do not want Jason Kidd and his giant contract for reasons already gone over by other posters. And there is no way that the Kings are going to help us get Artest without getting anything in return.

by kinetic on Feb 1, 2008 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Trade (non)sense

Sac and NJ are not going anywhere right now, which is why they're looking to retool. Usually, when teams do this, they trade older, more expensive players away for younger, less proven but cheaper players with "potential" and/or cap relief and/or picks. Sac is looking to unload Bibby because he's aging and no longer worth that contract if the team isn't in a position to win. NJ is looking to unload Kidd because he's aging and is really the more liquidatable asset they have. Both Bibby and Kidd are going to be under contract next year. Both teams want to get rid of contracts. Swapping them doesn't make either team substantively better short term. It doesn't make sense strategically. Kidd is too old to build around so Sac would be paying him big for a couple of years while they were still not good enough to do much of anything. Artest, may be opting out after this season. He may be a headache for the Kings, but if they trade him, they'll want something back, probably a pick, since they may well see his salary evaporate without having to hand him to a rival.

NJ might like the deal--they get a pick and Bibby is paid less than Kidd, but for Sac, there's really just not enough upside. A pick and a potentially expiring contract and a one year in the league lottery pick who, though I think he's going to be a total bust is still tall enough that people might want him for the rights to pay a guy big dollars for the rights to have him help you possibly squeak into the last playoff spot for two years while you hit the lux tax threshold? Yeah. Makes sense.

Gasol was traded for an expiring contract (Brown) and picks. Yes, in terms of talent, it was a robbery. But this does not justify any other whacky trade proposal as being possible too. Strategically, it's clear why both teams went for the deal. LA gets a big man to help them as they make a push to be an elite team. Memphis gets relief as they start to build from the ground up again. There is not similarly strategic reason for the Kings to do a deal like this one.

by jae on Feb 3, 2008 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sacramento

As much as we'd like to believe the Kings are absolutely garbage and are only looking to rebuild, I don't think they quite see it the same way.

They aren't as bad as we think. They're nearly at .500 right now and they've beaten some good teams in the league as well. And they've done all of this with Bibby, Kevin Martin, and Artest missing major playing time this season. Maybe .500 basketball isn't good enough in this conference this year, but if you ask any Kings fan or anyone working in the Kings organization, I'd doubt that they believe they're a bad team in desperate need of rebuilding or retooling. Upgrading Mike Bibby to a triple-double machine that makes everyone around him better might transform this squad into a fringe playoff team. Jason Kidd would certainly be in a better situation in Sacramento than he is in New Jersey right now, bashing management and the organization and his teammates left and right.

To put things in perspective, Sacramento (despite dealing with major injuries) is a better team right now with a better record (22-24) than the "pre-trade" Warriors were last season at this point (we were 21-27). As much as we like to look down on the Kings here, the pre-trade Warriors of last year were far sorrier and more hopeless than the Kings of this year. And last season didn't turn out so bad for the Warriors in the end, am I right? All it took was one trade to shake things up for us, maybe a Jason Kidd acquisition could have the same effect for the Kings this year.

by jlagace on Feb 4, 2008 12:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs