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RUMOR: Elton Brand

I was listening to KNBR 680 this morning and heard an interesting piece of rumor. I believe it was the Murph and Mak show....always enjoy listening to those guys.

Anyway, they were talking about the Jazz game and how we are just outclassed by the Jazz in terms of talent and size so if were to make it to the playoffs, we'd need to hope to get someone like phoenix and have someone else knock off the Jazz. They were debating the moves that Warriors should (or shouldn't make) by tomorrows trade deadline and along with the Jermaine O'Neal rumor that is already being discussed on the forum, they also mentioned that the W's were talking to the Clippers regarding Elton Brand for Harrington, Wright, Bellineli esentially...I believe they mentioned more pieces but cannot recall completely.

If this is in fact true what do you guys think of giving up essentially all of our future and Wright  for whom we gave up Richardson for Brand who is extremely talented but is a month away from returning AND we don't know what shape he'll be in.

btw... this is my first diary so I apologize if I didn't write to people's standards

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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i dont trust knbr rumors
especially not murph and mac.  but, i like the idea better than oneal.
passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Feb 20, 2008 9:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

ditto
Out of all the names thrown around for trades involving bw (not to mention harrington) this is the only one I would even think about.  Brand is a class act and a heck of a player

by frankus maximus on Feb 20, 2008 9:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

why
does this deal not include pietrus.. the one player WHO ACTUALLY WANTS to be traded.

by saintdee on Feb 20, 2008 9:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

ugh
we better not trade wright.

by bigbenny11 on Feb 20, 2008 10:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

yea
let's trade a promising young big who has performed well when given time, for a guy who might not play again this season. No thanks. I'd like to see what he develops into. Patience.
CJ Watson. From San Andreas to the Bay!

by tadams1080 on Feb 20, 2008 10:02 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

yea
we're not going to win the championship this year anyway. So might as well develop our youngins. So much potential.

by saintdee on Feb 20, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
Aside from the dunk in the Charlotte game, what have you seen from BW that I have missed?  I have seen an inconsequential, rail-thin leaper who plays timid and looks really young.  Nelson doesn't play him because he's shown nothing in practice or warm-ups, or in short stints for that matter.  

I remember many occasions over the last decade where we've waited with baited breath for a player to develop only to be overwhelmingly disappointed and am no longer in the business of doing so.  I just don't see the upside for a frail player with no jumpshot who leaps out of the gym...for this team at least.  I still don't know who he will defend (3,4).  Imagine BW in a Utah game against Boozer, Okur, Milsap, and AK.  Imagine him trying to cover Aldridge or Oden...Bynum or Gasol...West or Chandler.

The future for the Warriors is to try to compete with future powerhouses like Utah, PORTLAND, New Orleans, LAKERS.  Ughhh...without a top 10 player like Baron.  Without a team leader and clutch performer like SJax.  With Monta having to run the point and defend who?  

The pieces to this team are so effective because of the way our rotation players compliment eachother.  AB relies on BD's creativity  to get looks, takes advantage of the opposing teams responsibility to dive on our perimeter shooters and gets scrappy loose balls etc.  ME gets to play off the ball but defends the PG, gets to run because of Nellieball.  Harrington draws opposing 4 and 5's that allow him to pop out for jumpers.  Jackson/Barnes can play with the style and attitude they prefer on this team that relies on their edge, might be a detriment on another team with different chemistry.  I could go on and on but I think I share sentiments with a few others on this site whom express their views on a regular basis.

My point, as usual, trade now, take risks, the west is stronger than ever but is winnable with a couple of supporting moves and a little luck.  That said, an impact star would be soooo nice but, in our style of play (hell-bent on speed), depth is by far the most impt. thing.  We need rotation players that can contribute (backup PG, a tenacious swing man, maybe an undersized shooter to shift in at the 4).  Those of you who are crying for more Kazu and AB and BW have got to be kidding...IMO these are not the crucial future pieces that all you optimists wish them to be.  Give me a proven over a possibility ANY DAY.

3 options I see:

  1. Trade for an impact player= JOneil, Elton, Artest (high reward, high risk)
  2. Trade for depth, for players who can contribute to the rotation now = Kurt Thomas, West, Lowry, Miller, Warrick
  3. Or keep our fingers crossed for an unsubstantiated dream of the future. (soft bodied Italian, rail thin jumper, a big who may excel because of the system but is limited on O and D because he isn't big enough for Center and doesn't have a PF's skill set in Nellieball, a D leaguer who nobody expected much from and thus excelled without the pressure of expectations but has come back to earth, and a stud who is in the PERFECT situation to excel and run like a gazelle).
Given the options, I vote for #2 and am satisfied with trying out #1 but please, please don't give me #3.  Only, it seems this is becoming a resounding reality.

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 11:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay?
I love how you just make shit up to make your argument look good. Accompany that reason why Nellie doesn't play BW with some cold hard proof. He doesn't play his entire bench, essentially. So really his bench doesn't show him anything in practice? Your logic is flawed. After you made that up to make your argument sound better, I didn't bother reading anything else. Here's tip #34564. Don't be a liar.

by xcoma on Feb 20, 2008 11:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol worst criticism ever
Hoof makes a long, thoughtful and intelligent post and you focus on one minor point he made. And then you call him a liar even though you're not showing any evidence to counter his claim.
It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Feb 20, 2008 12:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol
hahahaha yeah that was a well thoughtout post w/a "ur stoopid" comeback.  well done unconscious!

nominated: 2-Post Sequence of the Year

"We're all corrupt bastards." - Don Nelson

by GameSix on Feb 20, 2008 2:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Careful...
I wouldn't be so bold as to make such brash remarks about my post without reading it.  Your ASSUMPTIONS about my argument are unfounded.  What cold hard facts (or any other cliche you decide to barf out) are you referring to?  Nelson has said that BW hasn't shown him anything to warrant PT.  If that's not good enough you can ask yourself why, staring at a bench full of players and tired veterans on the floor, that none of these players get run.  

I'm sorry, could you reference arguments you have made and/or will make to support any optimism about a guy who comes back in a JRich trade (a fine salary dump) but whom was chosen because Mullin percieved he'd be attractive to Minny, not to fit in our rotation.  How would you argue he fits in to GSW's style of ball?

Dude, I have to be honest...in this post you come off sounding angry and ignorant.  I hope a response or your next post contain a legible and well supported stream of consciousness.  This is a blog in which the majority of us are all focused on the same outcome...Warriors returning to contention after a harsh and frustrating run of mediocrity.  Re-read the post Unconscientious.

Respect a difference of opinion and convince me otherwise or just put a muzzle on that puzzling angst!

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Straight Hoofiness!
I remember many occasions over the last decade where we've waited with baited breath for a player to develop only to be overwhelmingly disappointed and am no longer in the business of doing so.

Amen.
My point, as usual, trade now, take risks, the west is stronger than ever but is winnable with a couple of supporting moves and a little luck.

Amen.
Give me a proven over a possibility ANY DAY.

Amen.

Preach on brotha!

The one thing that I'll add about Monta is that he doesn't guard the top tier PG's. Baron's still the one guarding the CP3's and Deron Williams. I'm sure this is of course by design, but it's huge cause for concern if Nellie doesn't trust Monta to match up with those guys. The next 24 hours are going to be extremely interesting.

by Atma Brother ONE on Feb 20, 2008 12:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

mistake
 
Baron's still the one getting owned by the CP3's and Deron Williams.

Fixed that for ya' ab1.

"We're all corrupt bastards." - Don Nelson

by GameSix on Feb 20, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well Said Hoof...

I'm up for trading for Artest, Brand, or J.O.  only if Cohen is down to break through the luxury tax level and go for a championship.

Or trade for a Kurt Thomas, Kyle Lowry, Hakim Warrick and see how things pan out but...

Let's not kid ourselves...what will our team look like after Nelly leaves? He might leave after this season or possibly after next....

PG:Monta
SG: Belinelli
SF: Wright?
PF:Wright?
C: Biedrins

Possbily Azubuike stays....

Is that lineup capable of developing into a championship contender?

B-Wright hasn't shown much and I understand he hasn't even been given much of a chance, but unless B-Wright turns into a Chris Bosh...that lineup is a team who'll be a perennial non-playoff team.

That young core is not better than what they have  going on in Portland.

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 20, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
You seem like a pretty smart guy, but you are consistently negative about our young players. Is it all the years of losing that made you jaded, or are you just making a little too much of an effort not to come off like a homer?

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall view of the team, but I think you have a serious case of "the-grass-is-greeners". Do you really think that guys like Delonte West and Kyle Lowry are the answer for this team. I suspect if they were already here you'd be saying we should trade them for something "proven" and pointing out their flaws and inexperience.

On BWright;
Obviously his body isn't ready for the NBA but to say that he "has shown nothing in shorts stints" is completely off. He has only played in 18 games and is only averaging 7 min per, which is obviously a very small sample size. Having said that he is averaging 15pts and 11reb per 36min played. I'm not saying that he could keep up this production as a starter, I'm just pointing out that it is very strange to say he hasn't shown anything considering his level of production in short stints.

.........................................................

With the west the way it is right now, we are not going to get to the finals. Is there a trade out there that puts us in that conversation? I sure don't see one. Brand is the only one that could really pay off, but probably not this season.

by olympicmike on Feb 20, 2008 12:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

asdf
Amen brotha, I was just about to bring that up about BWright. I also believe he has the highest rr/rebound rate on the team, even above AB per 36 mins, if he's not more than AB he is pretty close. Also do you remember KG when he came into the league? I'm pretty positive he had a body very similar to BWright, you wouldn't want KG adding a ton of weight, the kid is only 20 years old, give him a few years to fill out, I think we're all going to be surprised, I think this kid could be a star in this league. As for him not playing center, he has a 7'5 wingspan, I'm sure with that sort of length he would do just fine against the majority of the C's in the league.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 20, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...I'm jaded...
I suppose you bring to light a very good point re: me.  I feel like I just had a bite of one of those "It's It" ice cream sandwiches and...it was so good.  I haven't had something so delicious in a looooong time.  Yeah, I see it's got like 28 grams of saturated fat and that I might develop a fine hankering for this treat and in turn might transform my sculpted physique into a serious boiler but, I can't turn back after being deprived of the flavor for so long.

I feel the same way about winning and last year's run. (Was anybody else convinced that we could squash the Jazz in the 2nd round and that the WCF were a few fortunate breaks away).  I live in LALA now and despise the Lakers with a vehement hate usually reserved for murderers and pedofiles.  Of course, I gotta deal with the constant Kobe talk and a Berkeley-bred close friend who considers himself a Warrior apologist but a Faker fan so...you're right Mike...I'm def jaded and can't always be relied on for the coolest of reactions.

That said, I don't feel like I'm far off regarding the future of this team and the unabated optimism I've expressed toward the special veteran pieces we have compiled on this squad.  And the BW thing...I really want to be wrong but, those numbers you speak of typically come against the opposing team's scrubs.  Since the sample is so limited, we've got little to substantiate any impressions of Brandan.  I'm just looking at his skill set.

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

asdf
I see where you're coming from completely, I want to win right now so bad after suffering through the horrid DunMurphy years where we were suppose to be great. I just don't want to trade away the future for what would be a year rental of Brand. It's going to be impossible for the Dubs to resign Monta, AB, Brand and BD because Cohan won't allow us to go into the luxury tax and how do you choose who stays and goes? Do you give away Monta or AB this year and hope BD, Brand and Monta/AB can compete next year or do you keep the young ones and choose between Brand and BD next year? I think we would have to choose BD, he's what makes this thing go, without him I don't think we can compete, so in my mind we're basically giving away Al, Wright, Belinelli and whoever else for a year rental of Elton Brand and who knows how effective he'll be coming off of surgery.

As for us beating the Jazz last year I'm right there with you, a few free throws and a couple rebounds and we're up 3-1 instead of down 3-1, I wrote a whole speel on how it was the Dubs destiny to win last year before game 5, after we lost I refused to come back on here for months.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 20, 2008 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what you missed
From Brandan Wright:

Apparently you haven't seen his jumper.  It does exist and while its not where it needs to be, this is obviously something that can easily be improved with practice.  He has not hesitated to take shots from the baseline or around the free throw circle: some went in, some didn't, but regardless the result, he had good touch on his shots.

Earlier this month, when Wright came in for garbage time, he made a 5-6 ft. hook shot in which his elbow was at the height of the rim.  When a player gets that high, his odds of converting his shot do too.  Wright's post moves are unrefined at this point, but he has shown a little something. And if you give him a clear path to the basket, he'll dunk on you.  End of story.

When was the last time this team had a real weakside shotblocker at the forward position? Have you seen how high this kid can jump? He got called for goaltending once last night but also totally muzzled another player in the paint (with pietrus).

In short, don't say wright's shown nothing.  He's done things on the basketball court that not a single other player on this team can do.  But because he is young, rail thin, and timid, his playing time has been appropriately limited.  In that limited time though, he's scored at a higher rate than Biedrins or Azuibuke and rebounded at a higher rate than all warriors except Biedrins. Give him a year or two to grow up, fill out, and get comfortable, and he'll have a Biedrins-like breakout year.

If we hold on to Monta, Andris, and Brandan, we'll have two of the fastest players in the league at their respective positions and a frontcourt tandem that could average close to 20 rebounds a game and also protect the paint.  

Or we could trade Brandan and Al for a power forward with questionable health and a mammoth contract that could prevent us from resigning ellis or Biedrins: the way Monta's playing another team could easily justify offering him a huge contract that would cost the warriors much more because we'd be in luxury tax territory, and at this point hanging on to Monta is the most important move for both now and the future.

by BingBluNT on Feb 20, 2008 1:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

AB and BW
BB,
I know this could be seen as blasphemy but, I would consider losing AB next year (and with the perfect trade, this year) in order to bring in a "super trade".  I just am not sold on what he actually brings to the table as a piece of our future.  So lux tax or not next year, I think Mully needs to look at the "big deal" (perhaps something we have not mentioned here and is being kept very hush).

I can agree that BW has some skills that might be valuable to another team that can afford to wait on his unrealized talent.  But I think, for us, it would just be the safe move.

Mullin took some major risks to build this team (BD,SJax, getting rid of Jrich's contract, Nelly) and I believe that the gung ho, high risk philosophy will only work if we take it all the way and see it through...not get intimidated when high risks and obstacles confront us.

I'm more interested in making a name, a real splash in the history of the NBA now, with our tried and proven commodities, than swallowing the pill of mediocrity and blind hope down the line.  IDK...

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 1:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
If Biedrins is not brought back, and Al and Wright are traded for Brand, then next year Elton will be our starting 5 and Jackson our starting 4, with Webber/POB on the bench.  I'm sorry, but if this is your vision, then you need some glasses.

This team needs to improve and add to its front court: bringing in a very good power forward at the expense of both our current PF and center doesn't achieve squat.  It makes this team worse.  Brand can do a lot of things, but asking him to shoulder the load of guarding Duncan, Amare, Shaq, Bynum, Boozer, etc. with not even a decent frontcourt partner, much less a backup, just isn't smart in my book.And if we ship off Biedrins then we're just asking to get outrebounded by 20 boards a night.

Lastly, you want the warriors to make a real splash in NBA history?  Well the Mavs and Suns beat us to it, and quite frankly the entire western conference is going to make history come May.  This is not the season to mortgage your franchises future on the hopes you can compete for a championship in the western conference, because half the playoff teams out there did/want to do the exact same thing.

If Brand was his usual healthy self this year, I'd consider making this move even in such a tough conference, but given our competition, his health, and the dubs potential future success, this trade would be nothing more than a shot in the dark.

by BingBluNT on Feb 20, 2008 1:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ridiculous
If Biedrins is not brought back, and Al and Wright are traded for Brand, then next year Elton will be our starting 5 and Jackson our starting 4, with Webber/POB on the bench.  I'm sorry, but if this is your vision, then you need some glasses.

If we could somehow lock up Brand, you'd be crazy not do that trade.

"We're all corrupt bastards." - Don Nelson

by GameSix on Feb 20, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

AB
What I meant was that AB is expendable in the appropriate package.  Of course we would have to make moves to fill our roster. But, who is to say that a deal for a superstar wouldn't include some of those missing pieces.  Also, Don Nelson is not in the business of trading for or drafting real centers anyway.  AB isn't really a C...I estimate that replacing a player with AB's skill set might not be as difficult as you might think.

POB and Webb are definitely not a part of my vision.  The Dubs, currently constructed, do not roll with a typical PF/C.  The percieved problems in the frontcourt are not as simple to cure or as traditional to remedy as it would be on another team.  The Dubs aren't shot blockers nor in the business of doing so.  We stick with the Jazz and other teams by creating turnovers not by making stops.  We attack the perimeter to wreak havoc and establish pace.  The Warriors always need long defenders and backcourt positions.  Our rebounds are achieved by athletic slashers especially on the O end.  Mullin is forced to think out of the box when getting players to accomodate Nellieball.  Problem is, at our pace, guys get winded and there is little to no bench for our backcourt, the guys who are working hardest to push our tempo.

Anyway, I'm getting off subject.  My point is that the frontcourt is an after thought on a team designed to accomodate Nellie's style and...for all it's faults...it has us in a position we have no been in in a decade.  We can't match up with Boozer and AK and Okur but, can they match up with Brand, Artest and SJax.  Hypohtetical, but seemed appropriate without knowing what pieces will be here...

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 2:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hoof, man
Slogans like
Give me a proven over a possibility ANY DAY.

and

I'm more interested in making a name, a real splash in the history of the NBA now [...] than swallowing the pill of mediocrity and blind hope down the line

Sound good and all, but in the real world personnel moves can rarely be distilled to such simple either/ors. I think most Ws fans agree with you to a point -- I'm basically a GFIN guy too -- but as I said to you before, it's hard to know what that point is unless you deal in specific players and specific $$ terms.

Is there any particular "super trade" for Biedrins you're thinking of? Would you trade him for the more "proven" Kurt Thomas, or Jermaine O'Neal? How about Eddy Curry, or Zach Randolph?

Unless you're Isiah Thomas, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want us throwing away young talent and draft picks willy-nilly for "proven" vets with pricey deals, simply in the interests of "making a splash."

I think most of us would trade Biedrins and/or Wright in a deal for Garnett, Amare, Duncan, Howard, Oden or Bynum. Unfortunately, young studs like Howard and Bynum simply don't come available, and to snag the veteran studs you generally need some combo of the following:

  1. Talented young guys with upside (Jefferson, Biedrins, Monta, Wright, etc.)
  2. Nice fat expiring contracts (Kwame Brown, Theo Ratliff, et al.)
  3. An opposing GM who secretly wants to improve your team (Kevin McHale)
We've got #1, but not #2 and probably not #3. If we really want to make a splash, we'll more likely be faced with a decision like Dallas's: whether to deal their Monta (Harris) and their only authoritative interior defender (Diop) for an aging 34-year old star who kinda sorta improves them. Personally, if I'm a Mavs fan I loathe that deal. They've basically sold their future for an incredibly remote shot at winning it all in the next two years. They're still worse than SA, LA, or Boston; and they've managed to make themselves older, slower, and weaker inside.

I understand that as fans we tend to wildly overrate the potential of our young kids; and I totally share your frustration at waiting around, year in, year out, as the team "builds for the future." At the same time, as a fan, watching your young kids blossom into stars has inherent value: in some ways, it's just as thrilling as watching your team win it all. And in the case of the Ws, it also happens be a lot more realistic. Wright, Monta, and Biedrins are not Carlos Rogers or Nikoloz Tskitishvili. They actually do have serious, "real" upside -- in the cases of Monta and AB, already partially realized. Which is more pie-in-the-sky, hoping Wright, Monta, and AB become all-stars, or hoping we can win an NBA championship with a team built around Baron Davis and Stephen Jackson?

Anyway, a few things to think about when you say "give me a proven over a possibility." I dunno, you just seem like too smart a guy to be satisfied with that kind of sloganeering. From experience, I can say that this board gets old quick when the discussions divide themselves into dogmatic camps ("JRich rules" v. "JRIch sucks," "make a splash" v. "build for he future," etc.) I've been guilty of it too. Instead of slogans, let's hear some specific, realistic proposals that we can really chew on.

Just to throw a couple out there, would you include Biedrins in a deal for Jermaine O'Neal? Or Wright in a deal for Ron Artest?

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 20, 2008 3:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ps
On topic -- we were talking about Brand, right? -- I think I'd probably draw my "line" between Wright and Biedrins. I love Brand's game, but as others have said, I don't think we're sniffing the NBA elite with him as our only "big." We'll need a long, active semi-credible 5 like AB to complement him. I also worry that he might take a while to get up to speed after the injury, and another while to get up to Nellieball speed. He probably won't be the Elton Brand we know till sometime next season.

But yeah, if we're only giving up Wright, Harrington and Belinelli, I'd seriously consider it, assuming we're somehow able to afford

  1. Brand's $16.4M player option for next year, plus a reasonable extension (say, 3/$45, taking him to age 31 or 32)
  2. A reasonable extension for Baron, at similar terms
  3. Longish-term deals for Monta and AB.
#3 is probably the sticking point. I'd guess we'd have to lose at least one of them. Whom would you part with? It's like Sophie's choice...

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 20, 2008 4:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

#3
That's the sticky one. If there was some assurance from ownership that we would dip into the luxury tax for one season it makes it a no-brainer but I think we all know how likely that would be.

by olympicmike on Feb 20, 2008 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Could you? Would you?
I think the clippers could go for wright and harrington and turn their eye toward the future with Kaman and Livingston: the west is too competitive right now.  

And if warriors ownership is wiling to extend Monta and Biedrins and pay $80 million next year, then it'd be hard to turn down a trade like this.

But as a fan, I've seen enough change on this team in the past year and would personally rather watch the team we have now.  Adding Brand would make it a better team, but probably a less exciting one as well, not to mention a squad of veterans patched together to get a ring.  I like the future outlook, close games, and style of the current warriors better, but maybe thats just me.

by BingBluNT on Feb 20, 2008 6:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Propaganda
Man, this has got to be one of the things that really makes me feel fortunate about being a part of this blog community.  Sleepy, I've been reading your posts for quite sometime and love your intellect, b-ball knowledge and eloquent explanations.

One of my shortcomings, as a writer and an out of the box guy, is a tendency to shroud my lack of financial background and knowledge in the business side of things with colloquial rants and conceptual suggestiveness.  I am certainly a student of the well prepared posts that some of the most financial-minded GSOM bloggers contribute (somebody said awhile back that we miss that brilliant/troubled curmudgeon, OZ in these instances) and try to glean what bits of info I can wrap my little brain around.

That said, at the risk of losing face, I will try to make some informed albeit general suggestions that I have been firing around.

It would be fantastic if the Warriors happened upon a scenario where a three way trade and/or a combination of moves could land them an impact player and a bit of depth to our backcourt.  I still dream of a deal with ATL that would bring us either Marvin Williams or Josh Smith.  The two seem to have a similiar game and will attract a heavy price tag come UFA.  I also like Josh Childress from this squad.  IMO, AB becomes expendable in a deal for either MW or JS.  I would also be inquiring about the availability of Gerald Wallace amongst this group of long swing/power players.  Again, we'd preface any deal involving these players with the assumption that AB would be expendable next year or we'd be willing to incur the lux tax.  Additionally, would Okafor be able to run with us?

I like TT from the Bulls alot more than others on this blog.  I would swing a deal involving BW in a heartbeat.  I love his athleticism and believe he would compliment a lineup with Al (I know, where's the size with Al at the 5 TT at the 4.  How many times have we found ourselves out hustled on the boards (often) out-lengthed or out-sized (suprisingly less)).  Warrick, Miller,Lowry, I believe would all thrive in our attacking style and would help to bolster our shallow bench.  Lowry's pricetag has been rumored to be pretty high though.

The impact trade we are talking about may be just finding the right parts to compliment a deeper bench for Nellieball.  If we are going to pressure, run and scrap, we need capable bodies to interchange parts and make it go.  This is one of the reasons I have always been a big fan of Artest.  IMO he is the prototype of a Nellie team.  Remember the play last night in the 1st quarter where Milsap tore into the lane and a pass was rushed and thrown behind him?  Baron chased and nearly had a layup if not for the backcourt violation.  This, to me, encapsulates what this team is about (frustrating Dirk last year, Yao this year)...just being faster and being so tenacious.  A deeper bench makes this happen and can be had cheaper than one would think.
Just some ideas but, as I've been saying all along, I think Mullin is working with a few ideas that may come out of left field that we don't know about.  It may involve a superstar (Mullin would love this) or a few more able shooter/slashers (this is Nellie's preference).

Sorry this is so general but, asking me to pound out a few hypohtetical ideas on the trade machine is kinda like asking Andris to develop a jumper.  It's just not my cup o' tea.  That's why we are fortunate to have some of the other GSOMers who do that and do it well!

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 5:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, dude
For the props on my writing. Sometimes I have a tendency to get a little lazy and off-the-cuff in my remarks, and contribute more to the noise here than the signal. It definitely helps to have more "signal" kinda guys to converse with. Welcome aboard.

Anyway, this is the type of post -- comparative analysis of various players and how they'd fit here, financially and hoops-wise -- that our old friend, the late "curmudgeon," was ace at fielding. Some quick thoughts, at the risk of paling in comparison...

  • Josh Smith is in a different universe from Marvin Williams. I'd give up a whole lot for the former and very little for the latter. Smith does it all: rebounds (8 boards per 36 minutes), dishes (3.9 ast), forces turnovers (1.9 stl) and is an absolutely redonculous weakside shotblocker (3.3 blk). He's also slowly improving his efficiency from he floor and the stripe. He'd be absolutely insane in Nellieball. Williams is basically a glorified jumpshooter -- sort of a poor man's Rashard Lewis. The only thing I like about him is that his middle name is "Gaye" (What's Goin' On?) and his name is an anagram for "Vanilla Rim Swim."
  • I love Josh Childress -- Mr. Efficiency. Dude is shooting 58.5% from the field this year, has smooth handles, doesn't turn the ball over, and is a solid rebounder. You'd have to ask JAE how many  wins he'd represent over the course of a season compared to Barnes or Pietrus, but I'd have to think it's a couple.
  • Still not sure Tyrus Thomas is a real upgrade over BWright future. He's probably a better rebounder, and readier to contribute right away, but he has an even less polished offensive game and seems to have a worse attitude. I'd definitely go after him if Chicago is selling low (as part of a modified "blow-up" involving Harrington) but I don't think he's bringing us to the promised land anytime soon.
  • Gerald Wallace has been intriguing the last few years, but not so much on his current 5/$50M deal. I also don't think the 'Cats, despite sucking, would give up on him so soon.
  • Okafor I have my eyes on. He's cheap, young, and for some reason seems kind of undervalued.
  • Basically agree with you re: Artest.
Sorry, ran out of steam there at the end. Need food...

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 20, 2008 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i vote for impact
and it's "bated" not "baited"

by dso on Feb 20, 2008 4:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
And it is me with the editorial background...Thanks mang

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 5:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd definitely do it if
we can get Brand to sign an extension. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense since he might not play this season and he'll be a free agent this summer
It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Feb 20, 2008 10:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Honestly
As long as Nellie is our coach, I don't think Wright or Belineli will ever play.  He'd much rather have guys that already can ball, even if they're from the D-league like Kaz and Watson.  He still hasn't given POB any playing time, so what hope is there for Wright?  I say if Nellie plans to stick around for a year or two, we trade the young guys and get somebody who can really contribute down the road.  God knows Nellie isn't taking any time to develop our young players.

then we will fight in the shade.

by Swamp Thing on Feb 20, 2008 10:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wright
He still hasn't given POB any playing time, so what hope is there for Wright

I honestly think POB has not gotten any playing time because he lacks the work ethic. He does have lots of potential, but lacks the fire that is necessary.

I really think we cannot give up Wright. He will be one of those players that we'll look back at and ask ourselves why we traded him. He will be a Warrior killer. I don't mind giving up Al, Bellineli, or anyone else that was mentioned....I refuse to give up Wright. I think he is too good and IMO starting next season we could reap benefits from him.

by RogiSF2000 on Feb 20, 2008 10:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not forget...
Nelly probably won't even finish this extension he signed. So does it really matter about giving Wright minutes?

If it's POB, Pietrus, Al and a draft pick, then I'm for it.

If it's POB, Pietrus, Al, draft pick, B-Wright for Elton Brand, and then the TE for Mobley or Tim Thomas' ugly contract, then...

HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL No.

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 20, 2008 10:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

just a quick question
Do you guys honestly think we're going to trade before tomorrow's deadline? There's too many rumors floating around that it just seems like it's all b.s.
"If somebody come in your gym and score 72 points, you goin' to stop playin too." - Friend on Monta Ellis' 72 point highschool game

by SAV IT OUT on Feb 20, 2008 10:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Only person that's going to be traded...
Will be Pietrus for some 7 footer that will sit on the bench alongside the 3 other 7 footers we have. Once that happens, we can wonder why we can't rebound, and blame it on trading pietrus for us not being a good rebounding team.
start now for 2009

by WingStop Warrior on Feb 20, 2008 11:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I would do this in a heartbeat
Sure, we wouldnt do anything this season. But can you imagine next year (if we re-sign everybody).

PG: Baron Davis
SG: Monta Ellis
SF: Stephen Jackson
PF: Elton Brand
C:  Andris Biedrins

We would whoop some serious @$$ with that lineup. Having Stephen Jackson as a 4th option is not bad.

You all forget how truly dominant Elton Brand was. Let him take the rest of the year off. I dont care. When he comes back, The Warriors would HAVE to be mentioned when talking about championship contenders

My pictures never show up here, so this is my new Signature

by sloth11 on Feb 20, 2008 11:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

asdf
You wouldn't have to worry about resigning everybody because it would be financially impossible unless Cohan decided it was okay for the Dubs to be in the big time luxury tax area. AB/ME are due for big extentions this summer and also BD if he opts out, which is unlikely but nonetheless a possibility and next summer it would be BD/Brand.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 20, 2008 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Time Is Now
I completely agree that we would have to take this deal if it was on the table. BRAND IS ELITE and with the magic that this team already has with BD, Jackson, Ellis, and Biedrins, it's time for Cohen to spend some money, pay the luxury tax and compete. A line up of BD, Ellis, Jackson, Brand, Biedrins, would be seriously 1-4 seed material next year.

Plus, Wright, Belinelli, O'Bryant, and any future draft picks will not play enough to develop into legit players while we have this core. That's tough. We should consider moving any of these pieces because they are never going to play with Nelly as coach.

Plus, there's always the chance that Brand comes back in March feeling great and the Warriors sneak into the 8th seed. Seeds don't matter this year in the playoffs. The teams are so even that maybe this is the year that you take a gamble. The Dubs are 5 games out of first! Next year the 2 or 3 seed could be 5 games back at this point! Know what I'm saying?

If the Warriors marched out a BD, Ellis, Jackson, Brand, Biedrins line-up in the first round of the playoffs, I'd like our chances against almost any team regardless of seed.

Duke grad student missing the Bay but holding it down for the Dubs from afar.

by eastbayglory on Feb 20, 2008 12:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Refreshing!
Great POV!  I'm right there with you and your sentiments of urgency.  Your point about developing the youngins makes alot of sense.

by Hoof on Feb 20, 2008 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You guys that say no
What is your reasoning? Do you actually expect B Wright to be a better player than Brand in his prime? Brand is one of the best big men in the league, and I'd definitely do this trade if we could get him to sign an extension. I'm not sure the Clippers would trade him unless they feel that Brand won't resign with them this summer.
It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Feb 20, 2008 12:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's not exactly the point
of B-Wright potentially being better than Brand. Because if it came down just to B-Wright for Brand, I'd do it in a split second....It's...
  1. Brand coming off of major surgery.
  2. If the trade involves taking back a horrendous contract like a Cuttino Mobley or Tim Thomas, that could possbily affect our ability to extend Bullet or Biedrins, if not both.
Al, POB, Baboon, B-Wright for Brand straight up, then I'm for it.
 but if includes...

TPE for horrendous contract, and we throw in a draft pick to boot...then I'd stay away.

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 20, 2008 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

trade
2. If the trade involves taking back a horrendous contract like a Cuttino Mobley or Tim Thomas, that could possbily affect our ability to extend Bullet or Biedrins, if not both

Okay, I definitely agree with that. I never saw that mentioned as an argument before. It seemed like people were acting like we were mortgaging our future by giving up Wright for Brand, as if Brand is like 36. From all accounts I've seen Brand is expected to be back to 100% eventually so I'm not worried about the surgery too much from a long-term perspective.

It's almost like the Warriors have 6 guys out there... they always have a guy open! - Jon Barry commentating game 3 last year

by gsw4life on Feb 20, 2008 12:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea man..
for sure I'm up for it if it doesn't involve taking using the TPE for those guys...

I can only dream...and this is a DREAM only fitting for one of those insane "TRADE RUMOR!!! DIARIES"...

Al, POB, Pietrus, 2008 1st rounder for Elton Brand

then

Trade Exception for Ron Artest

and in a separate deal...Brandan Wright for whatever garbage they throw at us for getting Artest for free?

Yea I know. I guess I'll go turn on the 360 and make it happen on 2k8.

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 20, 2008 12:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pray that this happens
EVERYONE!

If the Clips really want to blow it up, then we need to make this happen.

Brand is as legit of a big as they come.  The guy has the mobility to keep up with Nellieball and the strength to mix it up inside as well.  From what I've seen of Brand he works extremely hard and never complains about anything.  Bringing in someone like that never hurts.  Oh and he is a 20 and 10 guy who defends the rim too?  To me, this is a no brainer.

IMO, Beans will probably be more productive on the glass and on weak side interior defense as well if paired with Brand.  I'm sure Brand would not be opposed to the move as this would easily be the most talented team he's been on.

by misterjennings on Feb 20, 2008 12:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thomas contract not too bad
Thomas' contract is 5.5 million. That's not horrendous. Plus, he's 6-10. He would be a fine back-up for Brand. Point being, this should not be the stumbling block for this trade. We're going to need a back-up 4 anyway with all the parts we're moving.

The good thing about a Harrington, Pietrus, Wright, Belinelli, and a 1st deal is that we get to at least keep POB for the future with Thomas and Webber as the back-ups this year. Guys, this is a great trade that the Clippers should do considering the talent they get back. Brand is going to walk at the end of the year and then they would get nothing!

Harrington, Pietrus, Wright, Belinelli, and a 1st rd pick for Brand

TPE for Thomas

I don't see why both teams wouldn't jump for this trade

Duke grad student missing the Bay but holding it down for the Dubs from afar.

by eastbayglory on Feb 20, 2008 1:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He'd be fine in the fact...
that the man plays absolutely little to no defense. The numbers aren't that bad, but the guy just flat out does not play defense. But hey, in that aspect, he'll fit in quite nicely with the Warriors.

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 20, 2008 1:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but dude
But he's only the back-up to a huge defensive improvement in Brand. You can't have it all. This is part of a deal to get Brand. We're not doing this to get Thomas.
Duke grad student missing the Bay but holding it down for the Dubs from afar.

by eastbayglory on Feb 20, 2008 1:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well that's true...
I wish the guy would block some more shots for being 6'10. =/

by phiLthyphiL on Feb 20, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

extension
only if we can lock brand up until the end of his career(or at least next 4-5 season) would i be in support of this deal.

i agree wright has shown alot of unique skills in the small role that has been given to him by nellie. but in getting brand we would be getting one of hte dominant big men in the game. just a few years ago he was THE MAN on the #3 Clippers.

If you add a player of brands caliber makes your team better, especially if we hold on to our more proven young commodities ellis and biedrins

by EastBayWarrior on Feb 20, 2008 1:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

This is key

Brand is the type of player we need.
But not for just 28 games.

Proud Sponsor Of: The San Jose Giants Baseball Team 2008 is gonna be big! http://www.greenlightjerky.com

by GreenLightJerky on Feb 20, 2008 1:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

beans?
any chance that the clippers would do it for biedrins instead of wright?

by EastBayWarrior on Feb 20, 2008 1:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Are you crazy?
Biedrins is way more of known quantity than Wright. But I guess if they want to get rid of a potentially big future contract. The Clips would definitely do it
Duke grad student missing the Bay but holding it down for the Dubs from afar.

by eastbayglory on Feb 20, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Brand?
Unless we are not trying to get to the playoffs this season and looking toward next year, why make this trade? No doubt Brand would be a great addition when healthy, but we have no idea if he'll play at all this year.
Looking at the Western Conference playoff picture, we may need to get to 50 wins if we are going to get in. We trade away Harrington, I don't think we get there.
Why not just add depth and then see who we can get in the offseason. Thomas, Warrick would cost us hardly anything.

by tangel29 on Feb 20, 2008 1:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

it would be
a gamble. If Elton is playing well next year the clippers wont trade him so its better to trade for him while the clippers are unsure if Brand will be at the same all star level

by saintdee on Feb 20, 2008 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't see
this happening. I don't think the Warriors are going to do anything besides trade Pietrus. If something happens I will decide if it is a good move later. This is an overload of trade ideas though, I can't take all of this at once.

By the way, that one that Bill Simmons mentioned for Kirilenko looks extremely tantalizing. That is the only one where I really couldn't see a downside. Alright, now I'm done talking about it.

by belilaugh on Feb 20, 2008 8:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

go for it
I stated this idea before and I'm up for it.B wright is going to good, but elton brand good, hella no. we want to get far in the playoff and we need to get there now. Elton Brand is the key player we been looking for. Make it happen.

by warriorfan4life on Feb 21, 2008 11:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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