Poll: Who to Blame for the Loss to the Bulls?

by commish on Feb 8, 2008 7:42 AM PST

I read through the long thread diary and was amazed at the recriminations against many of our players, especially Barnes and Pietrus. Words such as "retarded" and "idiot" were bandied about to describe their "contributions" to the loss.

And clearly Baron and Jax had one of their worst shooting nights of the season. And the Webber experiment did not get off to the greatest of starts.

And the refs were worse than their normal atrious selves against the Warriors, probably because they rightously hate the whinning of practically every call and the gratituous and phoney pats on the butts they get from Jax and Harrington.

And last but certainly not least, we have the Spin Master (as opposed to Zen Master from down south), coach Nelson. Lately Tim Kawakami has been tearing him a new one on this site during his Q&A interviews, mostly for being stubborn and ridgid about his system, who gets to play, bringing in Webber, and so on.

So I am posting a Poll to see what the community thinks. I can tell you right now I am voting for Nelson, because the lack of focus and discipline of this team is amazing. Nelson let's his stars get away with whatever they feel like doing, which is usually hoisting threes with 20 seconds left on the clock. He won't insist on putting the ball in hands of our best shooter, Monta, who is often the third option. He won't create a flexible game plan when we are dying on the peremeter.

The loss the Bulls is just one of the many losses that could have been avoided with a tougher minded coach. At least in the Commish's humble opinion.

Poll

Who to blame for loss the the Bulls

Individual players

117 votes

Refs

43 votes

Nelson

93 votes

253 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

I blame BD

As much as i love Baron Davis' game, i dislike it as much when his shooting isn't there. I did see some good passes from his last night, but like Commish said he threw up A LOT of ill-advised shots. Jax and BD were a combined 4 for 24 or whatever it was from beyond the arch. The best shooter last night was Monta 'downshift' ellis. He was our answer for Duhon! Why didn't we give it to him all night? He was able to drive and get to the whole. The no-calls by the refs sure didn't help our cause. I think when baron does not have the hot hand, he needs to dish it out to Monta.

by RunGGZ on Feb 8, 2008 9:03 AM PST reply actions

bingo

please close the thread! no more comments are needed. baron shooting 2/10 from beyond the arc, along w/the rest of the players general hazy play, we were just rusty and didn't come up with enough defensive stops. We know what they're capable of. The coach is not to blame unless I changed the channel and Don Nelson personally let Duhon get a career high.

by GameSix on Feb 8, 2008 9:44 AM PST up reply actions

BUT...

we all know that's BD's game. He's a quantity shooter, although this year, I think he's having a pretty good, if not his best, year in terms of shooting %.

He turned it up late, but it didn't drop when we needed it to. Oh well!

I do agree that they seemed a little rusty, and although you can't necessarily blame the coach for the loss completely, because he wasn't on the court. He was the one who decided who should have been on the court, and it definitely should not have been MP so much, rather than BUIKE or even WRIGHT to match up against all those lanky, energy players the BULLS put out there.

"S.C. gooooo hooooome!!!"

by scottiepimppen on Feb 8, 2008 6:30 PM PST up reply actions

This game was crap

I couldn't even watch the last 5 minutes I just fast forwarded my DVR, I couldn't stand to watch this horrible play any longer. The game last night was possibly the worst game they've played all season. How do you lose a game without there top 3 players? At home we are somewhat attrocious, this team needs to step up the D, they were not hustling last night, jacking up quick shots. There are way to many negatives to talk about.

What's with Biedrins, that kid needs to dunk the ball, he kept going up with that soft stuff all night, you know every once in awhile it's a damn good idea to DUNK THE BALL!

Why didn't I see Kelenna the entire game? Is he not a hard working good defending effecient scorer thatcould have helped our team? Nelson in my opinion is a joke this guy doesn't seem to know how to motivate his players, or play the proper ones. Baron had an awful game how many times did Duhon just out quick him? Put CJ in the game that's why we picked him up to spell Baron. 8-24, stop shooting you F&*K!!! I waited nearly a week for this!!!

I'm done.

It's all about the killer cross-over baby!

by warriorsfiend on Feb 8, 2008 9:10 AM PST reply actions

lol

at least we know he'll have a good game in sac town. According to Barnett, "Great players don't have two bad shooting nights." So far its been true. If he is still sucking then we'll know that the all-star snub is draining his will to play.

by saintdee on Feb 8, 2008 9:22 AM PST reply actions

Don't u mean

at Oakland. They better win cause I bought a lower bowl ticket a few weeks ago for this game.

He never stopped running!!!

by J2daZ on Feb 8, 2008 9:40 AM PST up reply actions

Who's to Blame for the loss?

I'd blame this guy right here....

by FriscoJoe on Feb 8, 2008 9:55 AM PST reply actions

This team...

Is simply not good enough to compete in the West down the stretch. We need to make some sort of move, b/c the way this team is constructed these type of games are just going to happen. Also, can someone PLEASE explain to me how MP gets the crunch time minutes over Al. I'd rather see Brandan Wright getting those minutes then MP.
Also,
0 mins for azubuike, watson, and wright....

by BeLEGENDelliAllDay on Feb 8, 2008 10:14 AM PST reply actions

Wow

This team...
Is simply not good enough to compete in the West down the stretch.

I'd have to completely, 100% disagree. This team can beat ANY team in the league on any given night if they'd just play the way they play. I'm talking the play they had during that 16-5 run last year, and the play they had during our mini 6 game run this year. Intensity, swarming defense, ball movement. Sure you can say that abot any team (beating any team in the league), but I honestly think no other team can do it like the Dubs. Then again, they can also lose to any team in the league on any given night, if they play the complete opposite, like they did last night.

"That's why Baron is Baron." -Bob Fitzgerald

by WarriorForLife on Feb 8, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions

As angry as I am at the Warriors right now

you are a little too hasty with these statements. The Warriors need to find themselves and they will be fine. Unfortunately, they are in a ithgt race right now, so they will have to find themselves sooner than later.

by belilaugh on Feb 8, 2008 1:36 PM PST up reply actions

for those

that think nelson is to blame for this loss is crazy! i didnt see nelson miss open 3's, lay-ups, cry for fouls, turn the ball over and play poor defense!

overall, nellie is to blame but for this single loss against the bulls i think the entire team is at fault. for those of you who coach or teach understand what i'm saying.

win or lose... playoffs or lottery... i gotta luv them dubz! GSW 4 Life!!!

by gogomaplata on Feb 8, 2008 10:33 AM PST reply actions

warriors

missed ALL of their open shots

by maybenextyear on Feb 8, 2008 10:45 AM PST reply actions

How easy would it be

if you could pin it on one guy. Our troubles would be over.

But it just doesn't work that way. It's a team game. It takes a team to win, it takes a team to lose.

by shadowboy on Feb 8, 2008 10:46 AM PST reply actions

asdf

You have to blame EVERYONE who missed a lay up last night, I swear to God the Dubs missed 7 or 8 lay ups they normally make. They just didn't have it tonight, which is gonna happen. It's a long season, we're going to have a few clunkers here and there and last night happened to be one of those ugly games. For as bad as they played, they still almost pulled it out some how but nonetheless, it's inexcusable to lose to the Bulls when they are without their top 3 players. One thing I would have liked to see is obviously Joe Smith's length was bothering us, I would have liked to see Nellie counter by putting BWright on him and see if he could shoot over him.

by J Rich 4 MVP on Feb 8, 2008 10:57 AM PST reply actions

theres

no ONE person to blame here. There were many that could have done alot differently(better). But I completely agree that Nellie has to have some of the blame.

He just simply cannot be starting Webber first of all. This guy hasnt played a game all season, has only had, what like 5 practices?, and now is starting? It doesnt make sense. We should have eased him in to the line up. Not start him, get a
horrible slow start, and let him make poor outlet passes, which he did, and be slow as f#$% getting up and down the floor. He was rusty and didnt seem in to it at all.

On top of that, we need to start going deeper in our line up. When the Boss isnt hitting, we need to bring in some reserves for some spark. pretty sure Buike didnt play, wth? try out CJ, let Belineli get some shots up.

Al comes in for Webber and plays SO much better than him. PLEASE, start our best 5 Nellie, dont let Webber pressure you guys into starting him just cause you want to prove you made the right move (imo).

I know one of the offensize principles nellie has is just to let the players shoot all they want, but when someone has the hot hand he should urgesuggest that the players that are missing their shots to get them the ball. There has been so many times this year when we have a player just super hot, like Al or Monta, and then Baron or SJax will try and get thier own shots.

Our defense last night was horrendous too. Nellie doesnt seem to do much defensive coaching. Why didnt we try out the ZONE, i think that wouldve worked pretty well in the second half last night when they were abusing us inside.

Anyway, thanks for allowing me to rant, as im sure most of you are, I am pretty dissapointed with the way we played alst night. I hate how we play down to the level of poor teams, its embarrassing. We just came out so sluggish and content, no fire! damn im pissed.

by ilubthedubs on Feb 8, 2008 11:01 AM PST reply actions

wishful thinking

Part of me wants to believe that the only reason Pietrus gets playing time, is so that his skills (haha) can get showcased for a possible trade.

by ViveAirFrance on Feb 8, 2008 11:16 AM PST reply actions

baron

simply put. terrible game.

stop fading take your wide ass into the hole

by dso on Feb 8, 2008 11:18 AM PST reply actions

Interesting Comments

I can't see blaming the players per se and that is why I voted for Nelson. Even if those who voted so far for the individual players commented on how badly they played. So why weren't they taken out to sit for a while? Why no playing time for Bukie and 12 minutes for Webber? Harrington finally called out Nelson in the paper a few days ago saying Nelson wanted him to shoot from the peremiter rather than try to go inside. Harrington said he has more game than Nelson will allow and he has to play within Nellie's system.

Nelson likes gimmicks and mixing things up. No question he is a genius in his own way, but I would think the hallmark of really good teams is consistency and focus. Nelson certainly isn't teaching that and messes with the line ups and doesn't give most of the team a sense of structure. Jax and BD basically run the team and I think that is just wrong.

CWebb is undoubtedly the answer but I forgot the question.

by commish on Feb 8, 2008 11:34 AM PST reply actions

i can see your point....

I would think the hallmark of really good teams is consistency and focus. Nelson certainly isn't teaching that and messes with the line ups and doesn't give most of the team a sense of structure. Jax and BD basically run the team and I think that is just wrong.

... but captains or team leaders/vocal leaders must lead from the front on and off the court. Yes, nellie is overall responsible for their production which is a 29 victories and the 20 losses...

but he is not responsible for the last nights loss because the so called "leaders/ team captains" could not lead by example and i think its more nellies responsibility to instill the trust in them to execute.

am i right or am i wrong?

win or lose... playoffs or lottery... i gotta luv them dubz! GSW 4 Life!!!

by gogomaplata on Feb 8, 2008 5:55 PM PST up reply actions

I wish I knew :-)

I think the poll shows it is a combination of factors, not just one factor. When we lose to teams we should beat, especially at home, everyone gets frustrated. But this trend of not being crisp and focused is not a one game problem. It is true our Warriors can beat any team on any given night, but the Timberwolves went on a awesome two game winnng streak starting with us, so I'm not sure what that statement really means.

Would we have won if the refs had a clue? Probably yes, but again our team tortures the refs with the whinning. One would think Nelson would not tolerate that behavior, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Certainly our captains had a very off night, and that is not the first time or the last. But is there anything Nelson can do to mitigate that through lineup changes or whatever? Frankly I don't know but would think so.

Blame and fault are strong words, and we are going to have bad games, but it is frustrating to lose to a team that hadn't won in 11 games or something like that. To sum it up, the Bulls wanted it more than we did. Who to blame for that: I really don't know,but I hate it when it happens. You could just tell from the beginning the game was not going to go our way just based on the Bull's desire to win. At least that was my impression.

CWebb is undoubtedly the answer but I forgot the question.

by commish on Feb 8, 2008 6:24 PM PST up reply actions

Okay,

the warriors were down 1 point with 2-3 min remaining,after jax hit a 3, so can anyone tell me were BD was after that? I couldn't find him. BD is our Kobe, our Duncan, our STAR. When your team is basically tied with a couple of minutes remaining, your star takes over. BD is without doubt my favorite Warrior ( monta gaining ground ), But he didn't play like the person we know he is, a finisher. This game should never had been lost, no deng, no gordon, no hindrich,and duhon scores what?, 30+, DUHON!!!!Where's BD's D? Hopefully the Warriors show some fire against Sacramento, and we can pretend that last night never happened. And second at fault is Nelson, only because he's not on the court, but he couldn't motivate these guys to beat a bunch of scrubs, DUHON 30+?!!!!!!!!!

by KeepdaCore on Feb 8, 2008 12:11 PM PST reply actions

credit and blame

coaches, presidents, parents get more credit than they deserve when the going's good, and more blame when it's not ...

the issue I see at work is the team is now in a transition of identity - the nonWebber NelsonII identity vs the reincorporation of CWebb Identity and I don't think it will be resolved any time soon - did anyone notice how many plays we were running? That alone signifies that the players are not autonomously playing in their run&gun mode. Until and unless the transition to a team that can both run and execute occurs, we are likely to be bogged down in between. The Suns may see a similar phenomena now with Shaq as well ...

by hardcore on Feb 8, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply actions

credit and blame

coaches, presidents, parents get more credit than they deserve when the going's good, and more blame when it's not ...

by hardcore on Feb 8, 2008 12:36 PM PST reply actions

REFS

REFS!!

by djchuckdeez on Feb 8, 2008 12:36 PM PST reply actions

this is a given

warriors better just live with it. the warriors DO NOT GET RESPECT, PERIOD. they might as well play their ass off and let the coach do the complaining. they will always get bad calls, so they might as well expect it and play through it.

by KeepdaCore on Feb 8, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions

I blame Option Zero.

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 8, 2008 12:58 PM PST reply actions

Now that is an answer I can respect!

Props to Sleepy for nailing the topic! Hey, I miss OZ; he brought a lot to this site IMHO.

CWebb is undoubtedly the answer but I forgot the question.

by commish on Feb 8, 2008 2:06 PM PST up reply actions

me too

. WERD

by olympicmike on Feb 8, 2008 6:26 PM PST up reply actions

where did he go

by dso on Feb 8, 2008 11:42 PM PST up reply actions

If i told you i have to kill you

CWebb is undoubtedly the answer but I forgot the question.

by commish on Feb 9, 2008 2:15 PM PST up reply actions

nellie, jax and bd

Nellie for not running more plays for monta and for not keeping Al in the game during the 4th quarter

Jax for the dumb technical foul and always complaining after every missed layup.

BD for playing lazy and letting Duhon go for his career high on our home court. and for not getting the damn ball to monta and Al.

oh yeah.. Barnes for that poor excuse for a layup attempt at the end of the game.

this team is driving me crazy, as much as I complain about them, I can't help but stayed glue to watch every freakin' game. I'm in lakerland and these guys need to step it up so I can tell these fakers over here to shut up with their Kobe chants.

by wrza on Feb 8, 2008 1:01 PM PST reply actions

I blame Nelson

for not preparing them mentally for this game, for not inspiring them during halftime, for not playing up the underdog mentality in the fourth.

When he yelled to Baron "We can't afford to lose this one!" that wasn't exactly playing up the underdog, us against the world role. That is actually expecting us to win. I don't think the Warriors are a strong enough team mentally to expect to win.

But overall, I love Nelson, I just didn't agree with some of his moves this game and the mindset of the Warriors.

by belilaugh on Feb 8, 2008 1:48 PM PST reply actions

Yo Commish:

Words such as "retarded" and "idiot" were bandied about to describe their "contributions" to the loss.

This is required vocabulary for GSoM. In fact, I think I see the word "retarded" here more than anywhere else. Which is shocking considering the fact that I am "retarded" (technically).

The overall effort wasn't there and the outside shots were not falling. The defense was weird too, they'd play it sometimes for like 15 seconds and then give up. How many times did Joe Smith get fouled on jump shots? Overall, it was the defensive intensity. I could blame the presence of Webber because he can't rotate and switch like everyone else, but he was barely on the floor.

In conclusion, I blame the Blog-A-Bull logo.

by bloodsweatndonuts on Feb 8, 2008 5:20 PM PST reply actions

Nelson?

Players lose games, not coaches. Baron sucked and was rusty, Webber was and is fat and out of shape, the Bulls hadn't won in 10 years in Oakland (mathematics says they were due), the Bulls were hungry, the Dubs had no synchronicity on either side of the ball and they hadn't played in 5 days.

Give them a break. The same will happen to all the other contenders in the West. It's going to be long stretch my friends and Don Nelson will teach the team how to win, but ultimately the players are responsible. Don don't suit it up like the ole days in Bahhhhston. If the team doesn't now finally get it after losses to the Clippers, Minnesota, Chicago and New Jersey, they will never get it and really jeopardize a spot in the playoffs. My bet is they make it-never count them out. What ever happened to "WE BELIEVE "?

by gabezgsw on Feb 8, 2008 9:48 PM PST reply actions

The culprits...

Players lose games, not coaches

A nice-sounding slogan, but only partly true. Coached players lose games. If I coached the Warriors I'm pretty sure they would have a worse record than they do. I think it's legit for Commish to say that Nelson made some poor decisions in this game, and that a lot of his poor decisions do seem to stem from a mule-like overreliance on the vets. It is frustrating to see Baron and Jack chucking brick after brick from downtown while Monta and AB, the efficiency wondertwins, sit by and watch.

Baron sucked and was rusty

Agreed. Anyone looking for a culprit should probably at least start there.

Webber was and is fat and out of shape

He certainly isn't as cut as he was in his Warriors/Kings heyday, but as others have said, he had very little impact on the outcome of this game, positive or negative.

The Bulls hadn't won in 10 years in Oakland (mathematics says they were due)

You seem to be unclear on the concept of "mathematics." The notion of a team or a player being "due" is pure superstition. Check it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy

Give them a break

Not sure what this means. What's the point if these post-game post-mortems if not to criticize constructively? How is it better to dismiss the loss by saying "Baron sucked and Webber is fat" than to dig deeper and look for some other things they could have and should have done differently?

Don don't suit it up like the ole days in Bahhhhston

True enough, but if that's meant to approximate the way Bostonians pronounce their town, you're way off. The "ahhh" sound you're imitating is limited to syllables ending in R. The first O in" Boston" is totally different, a lot more rounded. If you had to spell it, it'd be more like "Bwaston." Ask Dubs Fan in Bwaston if you don't believe me.

If the team doesn't now finally get it after losses to the Clippers, Minnesota, Chicago and New Jersey, they will never get it and really jeopardize a spot in the playoffs

Agreed, though I think part of "getting it" is figuring out what their most efficient rotation; and part of figuring that out is looking at what each player brings to the table objectively, without loyalty or favoritism. Don't you agree that Monta and AB are often underutilized, and that it wouldn't kill us to occasionally give BWright a little burn?

What ever happened to "WE BELIEVE "?

Faith is for suckers. Looking at it objectively, we're on a knife's edge. A couple of poor coaching decisions could easily cost us a playoff seed. I suspect that's why everyone gets so cranky about a single midseason loss to a crappy Leastern conference team playing without most of their stars.

In summary, I second BSD's scapegoating of the Blog-a-Bull logo.

Love,
Your friend Sweepy

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 9, 2008 6:54 AM PST up reply actions

Yes Nelson

It was a mistake to start Webber. This team has had problems with slow starts all season and adding Webber to the starting lineup only compounds the problem. Can we say low energy??? I will give Nellie the credit he deserves for what he did LAST season, but THIS season he's laying the biggest egg.

As Nellie approaches retirement, I'm sure he's looking back on his career and is wanting history to remember him in a good light. No doubt, the Webber saga of the 90's is something that has been a sore spot for him for a long time. Now, he's finally able to put a happy ending on the story. I'm all for making amends, but for crying out loud Nellie, take the dude out to dinner, or take him to Maui with you sometime, but don't try to rewrite the wrong by bringing his old, out of shape a** back to the team 14 years later and then make him part of your starting lineup.

How much of the minicamp was about getting better at what the guys do best (which is running an up-tempo game) and how much was about trying to incorporate Webber into the mix? The entire focus has been on Webber since he signed on and I agree with the previous poster that the team is now in the midst of developing a new identity -- one that includes Webber. This isn't something that needs to be happening now - at mid-season. The focus should be on scoring and winning games. Webber's price tag may be small but the residual effects of his being there -- let alone a starter, are huge. I would never boo the guy, but I honestly had and still have a hard time figuring out what the hype was about. The Lakers were smart to want to put him on two 10-day contracts before making a commitment -- chances are, they wouldn't have and now they have Gasol anyway (kudos to their negotiating team). I wish we could have had one complete season with the lineup we had at the end of last season because I don't see the current team making it post-season this year.

by centerre on Feb 9, 2008 2:08 AM PST reply actions

You da man Sweepy

I love your breakdowns, keep'em coming!

by gabezgsw on Feb 10, 2008 9:01 AM PST reply actions

Nervous breakdowns, more like...

... this team will do that to you.

And yes, I still man-love Kevin Garnett, in a not-entirely-heterosexual way... ;-)

by Sleepy Freud on Feb 10, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions

Defense

We lost because of defense. The offense will be their most nights. The difference between the Warriors being a decent team, and being an elite team is their commitment to defense. The Warriors let one of the worst fg% shooting teams in the league go for 56%. That's terrible. Duhon went for a career high. Heck, even Ben Wallace hit double digits. The bulls got to the line 48 times. While you could blame that on the refs, it was mostly because no one could stop their man on the dribble. The Bulls (mostly duhon) were dribbling into the lane as if the dubs were trying to let them get a layup. I think that, while defense depends on the execution of the players, it most of all depends on focus, determination, and willingness to defend. The coach has to make sure that the team has this focus to defend. Jax and especially Baron looked really tired, which also falls on the strange minute management of Nelson. I vote for the Don.

by Calamity on Feb 10, 2008 11:05 PM PST reply actions