East-West Structural Imbalance -- Is it a Problem?

by soem on Mar 11, 2008 12:38 AM PDT Comment 23 comments

The East has strong incentives (structurally and financially) to keep the imbalance in place.

9 West teams could win 50+ games with one not making the playoffs.
5 East teams with losing records could get into the playoffs.

East Incentives to Dog it During the Season:

#1 Collusion - If they(East) all dog it, they all can rest players, and still compete for playoffs.

#2 At Draft time, even East playoff teams will have picks way before West teams, because the East teams have much worse records (overall).

#3 Its the best of both worlds. They(East) make the playoffs -- and they get to draft better players than the West (even a better draft position than many West teams that didn't make the playoffs)

#4 Reaching the playoffs helps clubs financially. Shouldn't that come because of merit (performance) rather than some structural trickery.

Simple Solution: Stern & Co seed the best 16 teams.

Poof goes the structural imbalance incentives. At least a team would no longer get to the playoffs by dogging it as a group (East GMs).

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

0 recs | Comment 23 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Not gonna happen

ever.

by jtoj on Mar 11, 2008 1:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

asdf

pat riley cough cough

"TIMEOUT IN BARON'S HOUSE"

by the noTORious TOR on Mar 11, 2008 1:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

thats not a simple solution

if you're going to take the best 16 teams than theres no point in having two conferences. Everybody will have to play everybody the same amount of times. The current seeding is fine imo. It makes it more exciting to make it to the playoffs.

by saintdee on Mar 11, 2008 1:05 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

all

your reasons just show how this would put balance or tip the power to the east. as they get better picks, the teams get better. than they become better. its like how the east was so much better mid 80-mid 90's than the west is better now. It all goes around in a circle the way i think of it. it just takes a while in the nba.

What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Mar 11, 2008 2:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah

forgot to add thats why that 16 team thing should not work. cause in my opinion it would just create more of a system that wont even itself out in the end. and would create even more power to one side than the other. if you look at it you could have 12 west 4 east in the playoffs at one time!

What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Mar 11, 2008 2:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm having a tough time

believing that the entire eastern conference is sandbagging.

A few teams, here and there (I'm looking at you, Miami) but not the whole conference.

by shadowboy on Mar 11, 2008 5:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Check this idea...

i thought about this, as everyone has a lot. Do you want it to be like college hoops where there's so much problem deciding the rankings and backets? The only solution I can see, is to add a wild card to the playoffs, but still keeping it West vs. East. They could shorten the regular season to make room for more playoff games. The best teams will get home court advantage and a first week bye... like football. right?

"No Respect! I tell you man, No Respect!"

by oldskool on Mar 11, 2008 8:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

asdf

The problem with having the top 16 teams in the playoffs is the traveling issue. Imagine teams on the West coast that would have to play teams on the East coast in a seven game series. Especially in the first and second rounds. This would cause a major disadvantage for the team that would make it through to the next round. Yes, this already happens in the finals, but the winner doesnt have to play another series after the finals. Something to think about... I believe they were talking about this during the Miami vs. Dubs game.

by krazybalr on Mar 11, 2008 8:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Current System

I like the current system. This year's West playoff race is so exciting! And even though it is "unjust" that better teams in the West will be left out while losers in the East make it in, this is pro sports, not children's futures or something. The fun of this year's West chase is worth it!!

by Bucky on Mar 11, 2008 9:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yea

but it DID suck for oden and durant to end up in the west, lol.

by bigbenny11 on Mar 11, 2008 9:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

All Good Stuff ...

... and food for thought.

To Me:

Travel effects can be minimized with charter flights.
Conference and Divison winners can be compensated with other bennies.
Sandbagging -- maybe? The financial incentives are definitely there.
Draft Picks -- may/should make teams better. That doesn't mean it will show up in standings if there is a (deliberate) structural imbalance.

Fast forward a decade ... if this imbalance is still in place (because the East GMs make it so), East teams will become much better (than the West but still dogging it) and still getting into playoffs (with sub-500 records) and getting better draft picks -- perpetually.

Is the NBA headed there? I don't know. But the incentive structure seems to be setup toward that type of gamesmanship. Choosing the Best 16 helps eliminate that. Might be interesting to see NBA try that for a number of years.

[BTW ... the biggest opponent of Best 16 is advertisers -- especially if it affects their coveted East market. That filters down into the talking heads positions, because advertisers pay their bills. More about Money than Merit.]

by soem on Mar 11, 2008 9:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

asdf

#3 Its the best of both worlds. They(East) make the playoffs -- and they get to draft better players than the West (even a better draft position than many West teams that didn't make the playoffs)

This statement is wrong, the west teams that don't make the playoffs get a lottery pick. Which is better than eastern playoff teams with worst records.

Now I think Fitz's idea of the 6 division wins get in. Then the next 10 best records. I believe this would even the conference out quicker. You would have free agents moving east because it would be easier to get to the playoffs, see the big swing of Boston's record from last year.

I don't thank it will happen as long as Stern is in charge.

by Psion on Mar 11, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good Catch

The stuff in parenthesis is overstated (wrong). There are some subtleties there I glossed over.

Lottery rule:

2006-07 NBA season. Combinations were drawn to determine the top three picks, and then the remaining spots were assigned to the remaining teams based on their win-loss records.

Now you just have two sub-groups: those that make playoffs and those that don't. Within those sub-groups East has structural advantage with Win-Loss records (as far as choosing draft talent first). So the main overall premise and questions are still valid to ponder.

Even so I would agree, this imbalance affects the playoff teams the most. Seriously tanking teams (trying for 1-3 of the lottery) can do it just as well in the West as the East. (Memphis-Miami)

[More subtlety than I wanted to get into on the first bite.]

by soem on Mar 11, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best Idea Ever....

East-West conferences are a joke. I am sure 75% of people feel that way.

So whats the opposite of East-West?

That's right, North-South. Split the teams up North-South and it would feel like a new league. Yeah its bold but its exciting, shake everything up.

And yeah, there that whole Civil War-slavery North South notion. But we are past that.

Imagine the possibilities...

North : Warriors, Knicks, Celtics, T Wolves, etc.

South: Lakers, Dallas, Suns, Rockets, Spurs, Heat, Magic, etc...

Travel schedules will be similar, instead of going side to side its top to bottom.

thoughts??

Put a little mustard on it

by The Barnes Supremacy on Mar 11, 2008 12:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I Like

this idea very much. i really do. it would also give us Dubs fans some separation from a lot of those obnoxious Faker fans.

Baron with 5.. 4.. 3.. pull up jumper.. HE GOT IT!!!

by DMJR on Mar 11, 2008 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

north-south

That would be sort of less of a joke as East-West, since most of the teams in the East also happen to be in the North.

The only difference would be that
GSW, Sac, Portland, Seattle, Utah, Denver, Minn move North
Orlando Atl Miami Charlotte (and I guess 3 other teams that totally arent in the South) move South?

Oh and traveling from here to NY/Boston is a hella of a lot farther than from here to LA or whatever.

At 1st I wanted a top 16 teams too. But then traveling would be an issue and the playoffs would be stretched out really long or there'd be unfair advantages to teams that play close teams?

Lets wait it out. I bet in 4 years, most of these West powerhouses come crashing down (Dallas and Phx go 1st, then Houston and Denver, then Spurs maybe Lakers pull some drama BS and crash too)

But by then I bet Portland and Minn take their place - Seattle is eh, Durant is like Rasheed Wallace+ and Jeff Green sux IMO.

I dont think I buy the whole "East can rebuild through the draft" argument. The West is so strong that the 3 or so weakass teams in it have 3 of the 4 worst records, even though they would prolly fit right into the suckiness of the East.

So this year the West is gonna get even stronger, assuming there arent any big lottery upsets they get 3 of the following: Beaseley, Rose, Bayless, Gordon, Mayo are coming west and the majority of the East are getting late-lottery picks and the crappy east teams that made the playoffs get a lower pick than the Nuggets!

Furthermore the Twolves/Sonics/Grizzles dont have the incentive to go for it now cuz they cant win, so they keep sandbagging/rebuilding until they have 3 straight years of top-5 pick starters and can compete in the future while the East is still getting slightly lower picks (and play more of a crapshoot while crap west teams get for sure impact players).

The East is weak to the point that theres a lot of parity, the bottom-dweller can beat the 6seed and its no big deal. This is why they only get 2 picks in the top 5, none of them are getting whooped by clearly superior competition, Miami is surprisingly bad but I think they do better than Memphis the rest of the way.

Anyway theres my argument (to myself) for why the West will stay good.

I guess one interesting solution would be to take the top 16 teams and then use the same structure as it is now. Say 12 West teams get in, 1 vs 12, 2 vs 11, etc and East has 1 v 4, 2 v 3. If theres an odd number of teams in each conference, then the lowest West team has to play the best East team and vice-versa, and this series starts 2 days before the other ones so the winner can have rest time. If youre #1 seed and u cant take down a low seed shame on you!

Im not sure of the benefits of this system other than some good west teams getting in. It is confusing that the structure can change each year.

As it is, I say other East teams go for it all right now the way Boston did. This season it seems like the West got superstar trades and the East stayed still go for it all Atlanta!

ya ok wow thats long Im done now.

by baron4mvp on Mar 11, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not bad

I like the idea of going North/South but it would be a logistical nightmare. All the short road trips we have would become long ones or the league would really have to play with the structure of who plays where and when.

We will never go to 16 best teams strategy in playoffs because the NBA would lose too much revenue from fans abandoning the game when there are no Eastern teams in the Playoffs. Imagine a playoffs where no major eastern city has a team playing. TV stations would drop the coverage or move it to smaller networks, fans would lose interest and potentially not come back early next season if at all.

That would be a stupid move from a business prospective.

We would already have very few viewers if the finals were San Antonio vs Toronto...imagine if it was Portland versus Seattle

Dammit Dampier!

by attatt on Mar 11, 2008 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The best solution...

...I've seen to the whole issue of East-West imbalance was proposed by Bob Fitzgerald in his blog last June.

Here's a link:

http://www.nba.com/warriors/interactive/fitz_files_blog_june07.html

by read2achieve on Mar 11, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually

i argued about this with my dad on my blog. check it out if you guys like. (it's not quite as substantive as fitzgerald's. more for a laugh.)

http://cohn.pressdemocrat.com/default.asp?item=797850&mode=

(shameless plug.)

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 11, 2008 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where is Reggie Miller when you need him

http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbac om/tnt/reggiemail/nba_reggies_mailbag_022108.asx&video=blank&tab=tntchannel&nbasite=nba

"We're educated in the Bay Area."-- My momma's other Big Daddy: Baron Davis

by warriorgirl on Mar 11, 2008 6:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

asdf

PTBFAN Fairview, OR: Welcome to P-Town Mr. Stern- since it takes less wins for the East Teams to enter into the Playoffs than it does for the West, how can this be leveled out more?

David Stern: I guees our historic view on that...and it's something we're willing to reconsider..is that we have an unbalanced schedule. We play teams in the other conference twice and teams in your own conference several times. So unless you think the National and American League teams in baseball should be playing each other before the World Series, we may not move in that direction. But, as the chorus along these lines grows, perhaps we''ll reevaluate this.

http://www.nba.com/blazers/chat/transcript_030408.html

by Lat We N Trash on Mar 12, 2008 8:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

no

u cant just change the entire structure of the league because of a couple years. the east will bounce back in a few years. it already has this year with 2 new great teams (celtics, magic) on top of the old two good teams (pistons, warriors)

by 3Kings650 on Mar 12, 2008 10:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs