The Most Important Warriors Down The Stretch

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 25, 2008 2:19 PM PDT Comment 47 comments

since the all-star break, and since we finally knew the team we were going to have going into the playoffs (knock on wood), i've been thinking, who are the most important players to the warriors success? so i made a list. feel free to make your own.

baron
jackson
ellis
harrington
pietrus
azabuike
biedrins
wright
barnes

baron at the top because he's the most comfortable in pressure situations.

jackson next because when he plays well, which is often, we rarely lose. his play is a pretty good barometer of the warriors success.

monta next, because he's still young, and he has a lot to prove in the playoffs, but he keeps the warriors running, which is important. plus he has the potential to lead the warriors in scoring on any given night.

i put harrington next, not because i believe he's been the fourth best warriors this year, but he's the fourth most important player on the team. here's what i mean: when he rebounds and hits his shots, our team is so much better. he does it rarely, but he played two nice games against the lakers. when he plays well, nelson always opts to have him be the biggest guy on the floor, rather than biedrins. nelson wants him to be good so bad. if he plays like nelson hopes (and like he has the last couple games) he'll be integral to the warriors success.

pietrus next because nelson likes him now, starts him, he's been hitting more shots and driving. he can guard chris paul in the playoffs, or kobe. and he rebounds very well for a smaller player.

azabuike next because of what he showed against the lakers. so strong. works hard on defense. gets rebounds over biedrins consistantly. makes the difference in games often.

biedrins is similar to harrington, in that if he steps his game up he's important to our success. but i just don't see him doing it. he won't make the difference against the lakers because he's too soft to hang with any of their big men. he played awful against them these last two games. he fouls as much as he blocks shots or rebounds. he can only rebound against teams in the east, really. basically, if we say that if/when we make the playoffs we play the lakers or hornets or suns, biedrins will be outmatched by all three teams. he won't be the deciding factor in any game, although he could be helpful in limited minutes.

brandan wright next because his production is often better than biedrins', he does many of the same things, but he's young and who knows if nelson plays him in the playoffs.

barnes last for obvious reasons. but who knows, he may step it up for the playoffs and catapult himself above wright or maybe biedrins. doubtful though.

i don't think watson will have much of an impact down the stretch, nor kosta, nor croshere, unless injuries.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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hmmm

umm so whats your point.....

by riceisnicee on Mar 25, 2008 2:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's kinda obvious, isn't it?

He wanted to bash on Biedrins, but this time, in a more discreet way. I mean come on, Pietrus and Buike over Biedrins? Seriously. End of discussion. Close the thread. Have a nice day.

"Monta is the MAN." -Bob Fitzgerald

by WarriorForLife on Mar 25, 2008 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

come on now...

instead of saying why Biedrins should be higher on HIS list or that he's bashing Beans... MAKER YOUR OWN LIST. argue it.

Iggy likes to pick fights, but I don't see him picking one yet, at least in this thread.

Maybe he's conditioning you to automatically loathe his posts... but I think this thread has some potential

by Baron Von DOOM on Mar 25, 2008 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Potential

... to suck even worse than his other diaries.

The specific order of his list has nothing to do with it. Quite apart from the fact that the diary is basically just an excuse for another simple-minded swipe at AB, pretty much every point in it is either patently untrue or oversimplified to the point of inanity. Not a single point in it is backed up by evidence.

This diary is trash, even by the dirt-low standards Iggy has set for himself. Even the writing and grammar is crappier than usual. I honestly think he must either write under the influence or be suffering from a degenerative brain disorder (in which one of the primary symptoms is delusions of grandeur...)

(Man, Iggy should pay me for all the free publicity I give him...)

by Sleepy Freud on Mar 25, 2008 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

thanks man, i was trying to post a mild one here. people really don't like me, i guess. thanks for sticking up for me!

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 25, 2008 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

just trying to be

the Keith Olberman to everyone's Bill O'.

I think everybody needs to stop silencing each other's opinions ya know?

"And the motherfuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" - Talib Kweli

by Baron Von DOOM on Mar 26, 2008 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

biedrins?

shouldn't biedrins be at least 4 or 5? he's our only low post presence and our best rebounder on the team, and he sets important screens and can clean up after the other 4. just because he doesn't score like buike or mp2 doesn't mean he's useless.

"If somebody come in your gym and score 72 points, you goin' to stop playin too." - Friend on Monta Ellis' 72 point highschool game

by SAV IT OUT on Mar 25, 2008 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i can't believe

you just said Biedrins is our only low-post presence. The fact that you think he is a presence at all makes me think we are headed for the lottery.

by triplesix on Mar 25, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

umm..

averages near a double-double and has best fg% in the league. in most nba circles, yes, they do call that a low post presence. he's no boozer, but he has great hands and is a putback and dumpoff threat other teams certainly have to account for. why all the biedrins haters? he does nothing but help the team imo. well, maybe its just iggy's 12 billion posts that make it seem like a lot of beans haters.

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Mar 26, 2008 3:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Listen

I'm not a Biedrins hater. I actually love what he brings to the table when he plays up to his capabilities (which are limited - unlike those who think he is worth $10 mil per) and focuses on rebounding/put backs. I wasn't trying to rip on your post I was just saying that receiving dump-off passes and playing no defense does not a low-post presence make. The term low-post implies that he is playing in "the post". I'm sure you wouldn't argue that we run plays through Biedrins in "the post". The term "presence" used in conjunction w/ low-post implies that somehow he dominates (or at the very least holds his own) in the post or on the block - where bigs usually play. Biedrins does neither - which is not to say he can't improve though. Fact of the matter is - he just is not a low-post presence. He is a tall athletic basketball player with good quickness for his size but a limited skill-set.

by triplesix on Mar 26, 2008 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Biedrins market value.

Biedrins isn't a dominant force on offense and he's currently not going to win a shoving match with Boozer, but he does make the team better when he's on the court. On average, the team has had more efficient production on offense and has been more effective on defense when he's played than when he's been on the bench this, year (as well as last year and the year before). Nelson uses players in strange ways, sometimes ways that may not be the best. And Nelson won't be here forever, perhaps not even next year.

So what's the market for a big man who can rebound, knows his range, has good hands and when he does shoot usually makes the shot, one who doesn't waste possessions putting up jumpers he won't make? We can deride his offense as "dunks and putbacks" but let's face it, there seem to be few centers who can even do that effectively, else shooting 60% from the floor wouldn't be such a rare thing. Maybe it's just that others don't know their range (a skill that seems rather difficult to teach) or maybe it's that they can't even handle the simple shots effectively.

Part of the value equation is what the cost of letting him walk is and what other teams, given the reality of the cap, can actually offer. If he gets a contract offer averaging $10 mil a year, that seems in line with what other comparable bigs (who, for what it's worth, also help their teams without necessarily being the second coming of Tim Duncan). If he gets a max offer, maybe not so much, but I don't see that happening.

The supply of able bodied tall people is limited and failing to keep one who can help can result in situations where you're forced to try to make due with an Adonal Foyle. And as it is, "letting him walk" doesn't free up what we'd otherwise have paid him to shop for another player. We'd still be over the cap. We'd be shopping in the MLE market and the bigs available there tend towards the Jerome Jameses of the world. Mullin needs to be smart, not to be extorted, but life without Biedrins over the long haul will have us missing the days when we had a real center.

by jae on Mar 26, 2008 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure...

we actually agree on his worth to the team in general. I believe he is a very important piece to the puzzle and very valuable to THIS team - but nowhere near worth $10 mil per year (and yes I have read all the blogs about comparable bigs' salaries etc.) It's just an opinion, but until he improves other areas of his game (i.e. defense or post-up) he is not worth approximately 1/5 of our salary cap. If another team offers him that then let him take it. When you bring up the inflated salaries of yesteryear you distort the argument of market value. I would be surprised if last year's free agent market was an accident (multiple players over estimating the market value). It seems as though the NBA brass is not handing out those deals any more - instead their dumping contracts in the form of buyouts. And I don't believe they would be doing so so they could then go out and sign another albatross with an "upside".

For what it's worth Biedrins is a good player and I like him a lot - a good fit for this team. But of all the centers in the league that qualify for FG% he averages the least amount of attempts (less than seven per game). Now I know that he only plays 27 minutes a game but that is not entirely Nelson's fault - Biedrins is also very foul prone (third among centers) - and it's not like his fouls are the aggressive type, protecting the basket, fouls -it's usually b/c he is in poor position to make a defensive play.

by triplesix on Mar 26, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

jae

i was talking about current production, rather than market value. so this part of your post is most interesting to me:

On average, the team has had more efficient production on offense and has been more effective on defense when he's played than when he's been on the bench this, year (as well as last year and the year before).

i've watched a lot of warrior games too, and i don't agree. but if you could cite some stats or something, it would support your side. i'm open to being swayed.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 26, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

watch

the warriors try to rebound when he isnt on the floor. or watch how often other teams drive the lane when he's out. like jae said a guy who shoots 60% from the floor, is athletic enough to play in nellie's system, big enough to guard centers, rebounds in the double digits when he gets consistent minutes, and has some of the best hands in the league is valuable. those guys arent just floating around out there. and like jae said those things dont usually pop up on stat sheets, but anyone with hoops knowledge will tell you the stat sheet doesnt tell you everything. those things simply arent debatable iggy. like the guy above im not certain he's worth 10 mil a year, but im not ready to dismiss him and mostly i just want to enjoy him while he's here. he rarely hurts the team and several times a game i think "thank goodness we have biedrins." i dont know whether youre watching the same game as the rest of us, iggy. you can question how much he is worth in dollars this offseason but not whether or not he's actually valuable to the team.

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Mar 26, 2008 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stats

http://www.82games.com/0708/07GSW15D.HTM

The Warriors score 114points per 100 possessions when he's on the court as opposed to 111 when he's not. They give up 111 points per 100 possessions when he's on the bench while holding the opposition to 108 when he's on the court. With him in the game, they've outscored their opponents. With him on the bench, it's damn near a tie.

As a team, they shoot about a point and a half better (adjusted FG% including the returns on a three point shot.) with him in the lineup, hold the opposition's FG% down more than 2% points, and rebound the ball at a better rate. Despite the flack he's received about his FT shooting, his presence in the lineup hasn't had a demonstrably negative impact on the Warriors scoring at the line either.

The only noticeable negative is that they do not force quite as many turnovers when he's in, though they're still doing well in that category, and, given the reality of scoring margin, this doesn't overshadow the other positives.

These all suggest that they play better when he's in than when he's sitting. Certainly some of this may be that Nelson favors him in certain matchups and using him more might mean some significant diminishing returns, but for the most part the team is better with him than without him.

by jae on Mar 26, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's an interesting site you linked to

i've never seen that. some thoughts.

i'm not sure what those stats prove. based on those stats, biedrins is the second most productive player on the warriors with a +5.5 net points per 100 possessions, behind baron davis. i don't think you would suggest he's the second most productive warrior, would you?

and even though i rely more heavily on stats from the last month or two, i don't think anything's wrong with that. the importance of a warriors comes from a few things: how much nelson trusts him, how much nelson plays him, and how much he produces. i would say that nelson likes to use biedrins, but he trusts azabuike more, and he gives pietrus more minutes when he's healthy, and prefers to play harrington more than biedrins. that was my reasoning for putting him lower than those players. sure, it reflects recent trends, but nelson usually plays his players based on recent trends, and there's only about 20 games left in the season anyway, counting the playoffs. is there any reason to believe biedrins will pick his production back up when he's playing the best of the west? I personally don't think so. while he could be good for us for years, i think he's sliding down nelson's rotation, and could remain there for the rest of the season, therefore being somewhat less integral to the warriors success due to lack of playing time and lack of production. am i making sense?

if i could ammend my blog, i would ask, who do you think nelson values the highest/trusts the most on his team? it's a pertanent question becuase for one, it's hard to say, and two, he plays who he trusts, especially in the playoffs. therefore, those players will have more of an impact on the warriors winning games.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 26, 2008 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Productivity.

Depends on what you mean by "productive", but there's more than a few metrics that put him as one of their top two or three players.

Most people instinctively look at points scored as a measure of productivity and have a visceral reaction to anything that says that this is flawed. Rebounding is very important. A defensive rebound secured absolutely means a zero for the opposition on the previous possession. It's a defensive stop. Sure, people give lip service to "defense is half the game" but when people actually try to rate players and think about what's important, dreadfully few people actually give it that weight. There's not as many numbers attached to it; it doesn't have to be pretty to be effective; there's many reasons why.

No, Biedrins doesn't shut down other centers one on one, but it appears that he either allows other players to shut down their man or, when a guard misses a shot, he's a better insurance policy against an easy offensive rebound than anyone else on the team. That's important. When anyone else is manning the middle, there's more of a threat of an offensive rebound, guards have to think about defending the paint too. The numbers indicate that they're better with Biedrins. These are the reasons why it's probably so.

On the Warriors, scoring points hasn't been a problem with or without Biedrins. He can do his thing without demanding the ball, scoring most of the time a shot is there for him. Because of this, he doesn't take anything away from others so his productivity is almost all bonus. Harrington (who is playing rather well this year in many cases--much, much better than he has in the past) scores more, but since he takes so many more shots to get his points, he is subtracting from the offense of others when he's in the game.

Earlier in the season, I did think he was their second most productive player. Recently, I don't think that's true, in large part because Monta has gotten so good so fast, and there's just something about Jackson's contributions that don't necessarily show up in the box score. Jackson's 20ppg come at a cost. He's not an efficient scorer and he cannot rebound up to the standards of his position. He requires help to seal the deal on a stop many times. Monta's minutes come at a cost in that he's not the greatest defender. Looking at either though and what most people see is the points, ergo they're productive. (and they are, but I do think it's skewed and much closer to a three way tie with them and Andris for impact towards success.)

I don't know why Nelson does what he does sometimes. He's a hell of a coach, but I think he gets into being clever and different and may actually detract from what he could do if he weren't a stubborn SOB sometimes. Remember, he wins a whole bunch of games, but not championships. His methods may be something suboptimal. He certainly knows more about basketball than I do, but I don't think he's without flaws when it comes to doling out trust and minutes.

It's also important in Nelson's favor that Biedrins is still prone to foul trouble and his minutes are at times limited accordingly. It may be that Nelson doesn't want to rely on a guy who may be out of games with fouls. Still, I am rather sure that without him, we wouldn't be where we are now.

by jae on Mar 26, 2008 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

great argument

but that last sentence is all you really need. no arguing that.

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Mar 26, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

upside down

just food for thought, but I'd reverse the entire list because unless the bottom half of your list really brings it there isn't a chance the guys at the top can do it on their own - we know what to expect from the top guys & so do the opposition ...

and AB most certainly did not bring it against LA last night ....

by hardcore on Mar 25, 2008 3:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

since march 7th

the day beidrins got back from injury, biedrins has scored 72 points and grabbed 58 rebounds in roughly 227 minutes. that's .32 points per minute and .26 rebounds per minute

pietrus has scored 103 points and grabbed 71 rebounds in 228. that's .45 points per minute and
.31 rebounds per minute

azabuike has scored 83 points and grabbed 44 rebounds in 211 minutes. that's .39 points per minute and .21 rebounds per minute.

pietrus is clearly more productive, and azabuike is little less productive in rebounds, but then again, he's a shooting guard.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 25, 2008 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

nonsensical again

are leon powe or big baby more effective than kg? energy guys like pietrus and buike who play fewer minutes are going to have skewed stats. and you forgot to mention that buike and pietrus play wing and forward positions in a nellie ball system. they will inherantly have better per minute scoring numbers than a guy like biedrins asked to bang the opposing teams best big, box out and just generally scrap. i think pietrus is important on this stretch run too, but buike more important than beans? no way man.

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Mar 26, 2008 3:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

buike

has been playing his out of his mind recently

did you see in the first laker game, near the end of the game, when biedrins went up for a rebound, tipped it to odom, he missed the layup, buike elevated over both of them and got the board? he has been getting big rebound for the warriors and playing strong defense. he's making roles for himself on the team, and it seems nelson trusts him to be on the court at the end of games (it's hard for biedrins to be a factor late when he fouls out, like's he's done two games in a row).

if nelson continues to get low production from biedrins, which is entirely possible, and he can play a combination of baron, monta, jax, harrington, pietrus, and azabuike, and harrington gets double digit rebounds, and buike, pietrus and one out of jax baron and monta get 8, that's not bad. we can go extra small against big teams, like nelson prefers to do, and still hold our own (which isn't saying much anyway) on the glass.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 26, 2008 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

harrington cant

man the middle all game. andris is critical.

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 on Mar 26, 2008 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

did you see in the first laker game, near the end of the game, when biedrins went up for a rebound, tipped it to odom, he missed the layup, buike elevated over both of them and got the board

No. You use way too many of these "did you see this one play" and "what have you done for me lately" arguments. By that line of deduction, we should trade for Nate Robinson and play him at center when we play against Houston (http://youtube.com/watch?v=kt5pOPn_0Ik). One play, or one string of 5 games does not make a player.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 28, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm not talking about what makes a player

i'm talking about who's hot now, who will be playing well down the stretch, and who nelson will be depending on in the playoffs.

last night's plus/minuses

azabuike +25
jackson +20
barnes +19
ellis +17
davis +12
biedrins +2
harrington -1

harrington had a poor game with only one rebound, but biedrins continues to be outshined by 5 other warriors. not to say he isn't good or doesn't bring things to the table blah blah blah, the fact is he's down the list of essential warriors.

azabuike's had 3 good games in a row, nelson's been playing him about ten minutes more a game than biedrins. and pietrus isn't even playing right now. even barned had a higher plus minus than biedrins.

what has biedrins done for me lately? can you name one game since biedrins grabbed 26 rebounds where he was the warriors mvp? his youth is showing and he's sliding.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 28, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So?

by leee on Mar 28, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Humm...

azabuike's had 3 good games in a row, nelson's been playing him about ten minutes more a game than biedrins. and pietrus isn't even playing right now.

You're right. If Portland offered us Greg Oden for Buke, we'd laugh in their faces. Seriously, what has Greg F-ing Oden done this year? NOTHING!!! He sucks, he can't even get in a game, that must mean his coach hates him and that he sucks.

On top of that, we should totally give all of Baron's minutes to Buke and Matt Barnes because he had a combined +44 last night! Plus 44!

Iggy, the only fact is that you dislike Beans and that you do not value his contribution to the team. It has been proven over and over again that most of the posters on GSoM do not agree with you. Moreover, it has been proven over and over again that GMs in the NBA value players like Beans. Is he slumping right now? Yeah. Is it hurting his off-season options? Yeah. But if you suggest that Brandan Wright can do everything Beans does or that Buke is more "important" to the Warriors success, you have to be able to deal with the consequences of being in the minority. I disagree with you, JAE disagrees with you, most of GSoM disagrees with you, and your dad (the journalist who got you your blog) disagrees with you. Please, please, please, just give it a rest. We know you don't like Beans, most of us don't agree. You're really really really beating a dead horse here.

And your last question is ridiculous: "Name one game where he was the Warriors MVP since the last time he was the Warriors MVP." Really? Name one game where Buke was the MVP period. Or Pietrus. In a game that we actually won.

Next thing you know, Iggy, you'll be clamoring for us to ditch Baron for Darren Collison because Baron had a few bad games.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 28, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha Dubs fan

you never cease to crack me up

TGIB

by RC650 on Mar 28, 2008 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey warror-a-holic!

buike was the player of the game in both laker games this week, and atma brother one gave him the warrior wonder today.

this year, right now, down the stretch, in the playoffs

azabuike > biedrins

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 28, 2008 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Props

Even with JAE's correction right in front of you still can't spell his name right.

I'm a big Kelenna fan. No question, he was a total stud against the Blazers. He looked like the best player on the floor, other than Monta and possibly Steve Blake. Meanwhile: Baron looked under the weather and about two steps slow; Jack looked like he simply wasn't trying in the first quarter (before being born again hard, both offensively and defensively); and Beans looked like a guy who's still working his way back to NBA speed following major surgery. Still, despite looking a bit out of sorts, Beans managed a cool 10/7, with a dime, two steals and a block in 21 minutes.

Beyond these pretty self-evident facts, I'm not sure what your point is, other than the usual "look at me, I can say the same thing over and over!..."

by Sleepy Freud on Mar 28, 2008 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's Azubuike.

There is not a player on the Warriors name "azabuike."

by jae on Mar 28, 2008 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Small. Sample. Sizes.

We're all B.D.'s sidekicks. He's got like five sidekicks. We're like the Power Rangers. - Al

by Caught Backcourt on Mar 26, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that...

...Pietrus has been more productive to this oint doesn't make him the more important player. I'd say Biedrins maintaining his normal level of production is more important than Pietrus', because Pietrus clearly isn't going to average 9 boards a game consistantly. It's a nice stopgap, but AB is our only truly legit rebounder.

by Zack Vank on Mar 25, 2008 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

since january 27th

the game against the celtics where biedrins grabbed 26 boards, he has gotten double digit rebounds four times. 2 of those were against eastern conference teams, one was against houston the day after the 26 rebound game, and the other was against memphis. that's it. no double digit games against the lakers. none against san antonio. none against utah. none against new orleans. since late january, he has really under performed.

i'd rather play a lineup of baron ellis jackson pietrus harrington with azabuike the first of the bench, and wright and biedrins splitting time if those other 6 are having trouble rebounding or if the warriors need someone to block shots. the pick and role has been ineffective recently since teams are learning how to stop us when we do it. let's just go small. that's how we win. biedrins is adding very little.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 25, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

what were his mins per game in that strech

i betcha it wasn't that high. nellie is relying on his shooters to get him into the playoffs and the three headed monster (diddy-jax-monta) has been logging heavy minutes while everyone else gets rotated like a merry-go-round.

also, whats to say a rookie next year, drafted in the mid to late first round, will be soo much better?

TGIB

by RC650 on Mar 28, 2008 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harrington

has been especially streaky on the boards. We cannot trust him to rebound consistently night in and night out. Biedrins, while admittedly less than stellar since his appendectomy, is the only Dub who is not hugely outmuscled down low.

Pietrus' rebounding history, like Harrington, is extremely spotty. While he provides a good spark off the bench, we can't trust him to consistently play at PF.

"We are a great team of outside shooters. Unfortunately, we play inside."

by Mr. BD on Mar 25, 2008 8:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i think the stats show

that biedrins is just as spotty against the top teams in the west. and that's important, since those are the only teams we'll be playing for the remainder of this year.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 26, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the importance of Biedrins

While he may not have as many great games statistically as you would like, you can't just dismiss him as less important than half of the team. He is the only guy we can throw at the Tim Duncans and KGs of the league and expect to do a decent job of containing them. You can't measure post defense on a stat sheet. I know you think Beans is too soft for those guys, but he is the guy that is best suited to handle them on this team. Al Harrington really doesn't cut it against them. Andris doesn't always produce well or get his minutes, as sometimes we are facing teams that are forced to play as small as us (Lakers and Rockets the past week). So there's not much reason to put him out there just so he can pick up a bunch of fouls because he's not quick enough to guard the other team's forwards that are playing center (Scola, Odom). That's the reason his production has been down lately.

When the game slows to a crawl, Beans is a very important piece. He is far and away the team's best rebounder, he gives us a good pick and roll option, has excellent hands for a big, and is the team's most efficient scorer in terms of field goal percentage (also, the league). That's on top of being the most reliable defensive post presence on the team. I know his value doesn't always seem apparent to the casual fan, but take him off the team and there would be a lot more losses to the slower paced teams in the league that have a legit post player.

by saintfloppy on Mar 25, 2008 8:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i didn't mean to bash biedrins here

i'm just defending my list. if you guys disagree with me, it would be cool to offer your own list.

(i like to make lists, do you guys make lists? it's something i've done since i was a kid. anyway, i thought this one would at least be a talker.)

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 25, 2008 11:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Outside of Beans...

You just made a list of the highest scoring guys on the team:

Baron 22.3
Jax 20.9
Monta 19.8
Al 14.2
Pietrus 7.8 (12.1 in March)
Buke 8.4
Wright 4.0
Barnes 7.3

You bumped Pietrus up because he's hot. You bump Barnes down because he turns the ball over and plays more minutes that Wright. Then you back up your list by saying things like:
"Cuz he's comfortable at the top" (Baron)
"Cuz when he plays well the team succeeds" (Jax & Al)
"Because he's hitting his shots now" (Pietrus)
"He played well against the Lakers" (Buke)
"If he plays well, he's important, but he's not playing well right now" (Beans)
"He does the same things as Beans and he plays better" (BWright)
and my favorite
"Because of obvious reasons" (Barnes)

None of these observations really have any meaning. It's either "He's the top dog" (duh), "when he plays well, the team plays well" (really?), "he's playing well right now", "he's not playing well", or "I can't think of anything to say about this guy, but I think he sucks".

by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 26, 2008 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

MASH POTATOS

Azubuike
Barnes
Belinelli
Biedrins
Croshere
Davis
Ellis
Harrington
Jackson
O'Bryant
Perovic
Pietrus
Watson
Webber
Wright

Azubuike at the top because he's the most comfortable in pressure situations.

Barnes next because when he plays well, which is often, we rarely lose. his play is a pretty good barometer of the warriors success.

Belinelli next, because he's still young, and he has a lot to prove in the playoffs, but he keeps the warriors running, which is important. plus he has the potential to lead the warriors in scoring on any given night.

i put Biedrins next, not because i believe he's been the fourth best warriors this year, but he's the fourth most important player on the team. here's what i mean: when he rebounds and hits his shots, blah blah blah.

Croshere next because nelson likes him now, starts him, he's been hitting more shots and driving. he can guard chris paul in the playoffs, or kobe. and he rebounds very well for a smaller player.

Davis next because of what he showed against the lakers. so strong. works hard on defense. gets rebounds over biedrins consistantly. makes the difference in games often.

Ellis is similar to Biedrins, in that if he steps his game up he's important to our success. but i just don't see him doing it. he won't make the difference against the lakers because he's too soft to hang with any of their big men. he played awful against them these last two games. he fouls as much as he blocks shots or rebounds. he can only rebound against teams in the east, really. basically, if we say that if/when we make the playoffs we play the lakers or hornets or suns, Ellis will be outmatched by all three teams. he won't be the deciding factor in any game, although he could be helpful in limited minutes.

Harrington next because his production is often better than Ellis', he does many of the same things, but he's young and who knows if nelson plays him in the playoffs.

Jackson last for obvious reasons. but who knows, he may step it up for the playoffs and catapult himself above Harrington or maybe Ellis. doubtful though.

i don't think watson will have much of an impact down the stretch, nor kosta, nor Pietrus, unless injuries.

by leee on Mar 26, 2008 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

that was funny.

by belilaugh on Mar 26, 2008 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My List

Biedrins - he's from Latvia, c'mon how cool is that?

Baron - has a beard

Jax - socked a fan in the face and then slipped...I always thought that was hilarious

Harrington - someone give the man some nunchuka's or a katana...jeez

Peitrus - I don't know but there's something about him that just says he's of medium importance

Azabuike - man's sporting serious muscles, is there a PHD testing system in the NBA?

Wright - when he plays it's funny to me...probably because of his gorilla arms

Barnes - thug, thugs aren't that important

Kosta, POB, Austin - they play better than me, that's pretty cool

Iggy - not really important at all, mostly just annoying, trade him and the TPE to a lakers blog for somebody who thinks their posts through.

sarunas is my father

by williedillssf on Mar 26, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

list

Baron
Stack Jack
Monta
Biedrins
Harrington
Pietrus
Barnes
Buke
Wright
Croshere
CJ
Marco/Kosta/POB (in that order)

Pray for the guy

by B Randon on Mar 26, 2008 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No list

Just wanted to say - as frustrating as Biedrins play has been lately. On an importance list he is definitely near the top. When he doesn't rebound or play interior defense we are a pretty mediocre club. When he does play well we can dominate. When our guards can focus on perimeter defense and have a legitimate defensive big backing them up (Biedrins has done this a few times this year - just not that often) our defense is pretty decent considering we are an offensive minded club. But when he plays like he has recently - teams without an inside presence dominate us, which is inexcusable.

Basically, he is important to our team b/c it allows our small guys to utilize their quickness and scrappiness.

by triplesix on Mar 26, 2008 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Big Al

is the guy we need to step up the most and show some consistency. He is the most explosive "Big man" scorer we have.

we can expect a level of good play from Baron, Monta, Jax.

Biedrins is usually pretty consistent, well. Biedrins with an appendix was.

The next we need a lot out of to do well is Barnes. Barnes' contributions last year were instrumental. If he can Step Up, then we'll be hard to stop.

If Nellie plays him, B.Wright is a game changer, but I don't think we have any guarantees that Nellie is gonna play him a lot.

by Baron Von DOOM on Mar 26, 2008 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

doesn't it seem like

after harrington's firt field goal of every game, bob fitzgerald says something along the lines of "boy, don nelson would really be happy if al harrington could get going in this game." it seems pretty obvious, but when he plays well, i.e. grabs rebounds and hits threes, we're a much more effective team. he has the potential to be the fourth most important warrior on the team, behind the big three.

and i'd put him there, because he has put together three nice games in a row. 18 and 14 against houston, 13 and 10 against lakers part un, and 19 and 12. if nelson keeps getting production like that from harrington, he'll lean on him heavily in the playoffs, since biedrins won't be the only "consistent" rebounder on the team.

by Iggy_Zohn on Mar 26, 2008 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs