Warriors Better Off Missing Playoffs? (Maybe.)

by formerlythecity on Apr 3, 2008 11:39 AM PDT

Watching these Laker games reminds us both of the Warrior's "strengths," and their undeniable weaknesses.

The strengths of this team are Nelson's wacky match-ups, and the team's (and Nelson's) intense, "small ball" top speed style that has been beating most of the bad teams this year, and occasionally winning against teams it shouldn't be able to beat.

But as we saw with the Lakers, it is precisely those "strengths" that are their weaknesses. Running out of gas with a tiny rotation, too undersized to collect easy rebounds or protect the paint, going one on one, and flinging up undisciplined low percentage shots. These are the weaknesses that will either make them miss the play-offs this year, or sneak in and likely get blown out in the first round.

The W's are trying to reach the play-offs undersized and thin on talent. And really, what is the "value" in getting blown out in the first round under those circumstances?

We are faced with the same dilemma we faced during the "Run TMC" years under Nelson. And the reason he finally got run out of Dallas.

The Warriors can't rebound, or guard good big players, the very players they will face in the play-offs. They are routinely dominated on the boards by average big guys (Odom looked like Wilt against this crew) and as currently constructed they have almost no ability to protect the paint. (Especially with Wright on the bench.)

The Warriors couldn't beat the Lakers on a terrible shooting night for Bryant, while avoiding their two best bigs (Gasol and Bynum). The dirty little secret of the last Laker game is not "the bad call," but the W's total lack of any answer for Lamar Odom!

Part of it is Nelson's phobia of Big Guys and his style which gives up on rebounding, and part of it is simply the Warrior's current cast of players.

This team is fun to watch because they are "overacheiving." Nelson loves to "outsmart" the other teams, and beat their big stars with his little no name guys. That way HE gets the credit, not the players. But that gimmick only works as long as his guys can run non-stop for four quarters. And that is obviously humanly impossible against good, deep teams like the Lakers.

Eventually, the inability to rebound, and the wild low percentage shots flung up by the undermanned, exhausted little guys, take their toll.

Perhaps Nelson could manage the roster he's got better, to keep them running longer (playing six guys against play-off teams is a joke) but he's shown no inclination to do that.

So aside from the short term entertainment value of watching a few more games (games they will potentially be humiliated in, as with Utah last year) what is the point of getting into the play-offs with this roster?

To me, it only temporarily hides the weaknesses that Nelson refuses to address (except with the pathetic Webber signing). He won't develop or play the bigs he's got. And there are no answers to that problem in the Warriors future with Nelson at the controls.

This is exactly the sort of wildly entertaining (and wildly frustrating) team that Don Nelson brought us the first time around. And that was exactly the fear that those of us questioning the long term benefits of his return were worried about.

Like it or not, we are having the most fun the Warriors will bring us this year. Right now. During the "regular" season. Because the realities of this team are about to set in.

This is not a serious play-off team.

The sad treatment of first rounder POB, and the benching of Wright all season, suggests that the Warriors will NOT be a serious play-off team as long as Don Nelson decides who plays. And if the Warrior's re-sign all the current cast to mammoth, long term contracts this off season, we may be stuck with this undersized team for years.

You may be willing to give up watching a serious play-off team in exchange for the adrenaline we get out of the regular season. But at some point, just winning games during the regular season won't be getting people high anymore. At some point the team, and the fans, will have to come to terms with the limits of this team as it's currently constructed. The limits of "Nellieball."

Maybe "missing" the play-offs will be the best thing for the long term. It might just get a conversation going. This team is playing at it's limits, night after night, and it's still not good enough. That should be a sign to all rational Warrior fans. This team (and maybe the coaching staff) still needs serious work.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Comments

Lot of good points.

But I still Believe. I hope you change your mind and do too.

Golden State of Mind over Stats.

-the end.

Romes Mac Mojous

by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Mar 26, 2008 1:59 PM PDT reply actions

I love watching this team

It doesn't mean I have to smoke Warriors brand crack.

There's no tension between being a Warrior fan and realizing they need to get a lot bigger and better than they are now, to be a serious play-off team. How many of the seven teams above the Warriors in the Western Conference play-off standings are the Warriors actually BETTER than?

Case closed.

by formerlythecity on Mar 27, 2008 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions

ridiculous

do you remember where we were before nellie came back? you want to go back to that? come on, man. nellie ball has made the warriors fun to watch every night and relevant to the rest of the league. NOBODY wants to play us in the first round. a #11 pick isnt going to make us much better than a mid teens pick.

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 @ Golden State Of Mind on Mar 26, 2008 1:59 PM PDT reply actions

no way

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't recall the Jazz sweeping the Warriors in last year's 2nd round playoffs. And considering their history-making elimination of 1st seed Dallas in the first round, I don't think there was anything remotely associated with the word "humiliated" for the Warriors in last year's playoffs.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we also beat the mighty Celtics this past February?

But over and beyond all that stuff, I wholeheartedly disagree that the Warriors would be better missing the playoffs this year -- regardless of whether or not they would get blown out of the first round -- because after all the years of playoff drought we fans had to endure until last year, we deserve to be able to enjoy plenty of post-seasons for a change.

by centerre on Mar 26, 2008 2:02 PM PDT reply actions

forgot to add ...

... and if Bob Delaney isn't officiating at any of the potential playoff games we might have against the Lakers, there might even be a good chance we'd win the series!

by centerre on Mar 26, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions

agreed

Indeed. For all the talk of how the Jazz "owned" us, that was as close a 4-1 series as I've ever seen. The Warriors had chances in every game. It was not an embarrassing series. It was not a humiliating series.

Missing the playoffs won't make the team better in the future. It won't make this a more attractive destination to lure in new players. Since we'll be operating with the MLE and vet mins for anyone we get, it has to be an attractive destination else they'll go somewhere else. Missing the playoffs is unlikely to make the players "try harder" over the next 82 games.

by jae on Mar 26, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions

The idea that...

...having a season in which you big three play more minutes at a higher level than ever before end with no playoffs is preferable seems like insanity. It could cause a crisis of faith in the locker room, and it is a regression from the one year (remember, just ONE) in which we established a positive winning culture.

by Zack Vank on Mar 26, 2008 2:12 PM PDT reply actions

ALIEN KNIGHT FORCE

I'll grant you Nellie's idiosyncratic tendencies -- the short rotation has bugged me all year -- but beyond that, I think that the Warriors are comparable to the A's before the current rebuilding regime; namely, they have to exploit market inefficiencies in a highly competitive environment.

The Warriors can't rebound, or guard good big players, the very players they will face in the play-offs.

A lot of teams can't guard decent bigs -- that's what makes decent bigs such a sought-after commodity. Nelson mostly concedes the five -- which of course leads to eye-opening nights for opposing centers -- but he makes up for it with crazy defensive rotation and double-teams and more importantly wide-open, pneumatic, and voluptuous offense.

What's more, I doubt that the team is actually playing at its limits, as Baron and Jackson have basically dogged the middle quarters for a lot of the regular, mundane, quotidian season.

The sad treatment of first rounder POB, and the benching of Wright all season, suggests that the Warriors will NOT be a serious play-off team as long as Don Nelson decides who plays.

It's hard to forecast the impact of a player when you're looking into a void -- whether in the past or in the future -- but it's far easier for your hopes and ideals to fill in that void with unrealistic expectations. None of us can really know if Wright, for instance, would've contributed to the Golden Scheme of Things early in the season, but he could have been a raw and bumbling rookie just as easily as he could have been Baby KG. Nelson saw fit to deny us the chance to find out either way, so arguing the one or the other is bound to be fruitless until we get more data, at which point 20/20 hindsight still can't project hypothetically.

Final Words
If going deep into the playoffs involves selling out what makes the Warriors special, then I'm all in favor of short-term entertainment, especially when buying into the orthodoxy doesn't automatically secure passage to the land of milk and honey (take Desperation Does Dallas, or Shaq-bound Phoenix). I'd far prefer the route of integrity and we stick to our guns, literal and figurative.

by leee @ Golden State Of Mind on Mar 26, 2008 2:15 PM PDT reply actions

After years and years of futility..

The highest high of last years playoffs (even after the "humuliating loss" against Utah... they were just a bad match-up) makes up for all the lowest lows that I've endured as a Warrior fan the since 1989 (and there has been a lot). Sure we can just tank it and go to the lottery... but WHY? Just to get a pick who probably won't pan out in the future when we could have had the same picks later in the draft? I would rather see these Warriors play games in late April/May than watch 16 other teams with excited fans in their building!

Sure this team is flawed, but what team isn't? When the Sacramento Kings first came out gunning in the playoffs in the late 90's/early 00's, they played a similar type of game where they run & gunned opponents. Eventually they evolved into a better defensive team. How did they do that? By attracting free agents who became key role players. Same w/ Dallas. Hell... even the great Michael Jordan & the Chicago Bulls saw a first round exit the first 4 or so seasons he was in the playoffs before he won his first series. Regardless of what you may think, this team has grown together and is playing the best basketball that I've seen the Warriors play since the early 90's... and thats a LONG ASS TIME! Point is this team is going to get better whether we make the playoffs or not.

As for losing to the Lakers (oh jeebus how I hate them)... the Lakers have beaten some quality teams w/o Gasol & Bynum... they were basically in the top 3 in the Western Conference before the Gasol trade and way after Bynum went down w/ that injury. Don't forget... the Warriors beat the very same Lakers the night before too.

Missing the playoffs would just put a damper on this possibly 50 win season. I would rather feed off of the highest high of making the playoffs and getting slaughtered (not like that's gonna happen) in late April than sit at my desk in depression as we look towards lottery balls at the end of May.

by mightymadskillz on Mar 26, 2008 2:15 PM PDT reply actions

i feel bad for you...

for having to type all that bull

BD is God. Monta is Jesus.

by 07 playoff push on Mar 26, 2008 2:17 PM PDT reply actions

agreed

but i feel bad because he chose to type all that bull. nobody made him haha.

by Bucky on Mar 26, 2008 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions

This went out to "rational" W's fans

not the "BD is God" types.

by formerlythecity on Mar 26, 2008 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions

only if

by rational you mean perversely pessimistic. in the words of jeff kent "enjoy the game more."

passes it to the man...and boom goes the dynamite!

by sam23 @ Golden State Of Mind on Mar 27, 2008 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions

What are you Nuts!

Even if we missed the playoffs and get a lottery pick, its gonna be number 14, If we make the play offs its gonna be Number 20.

There are not clear distinctive Must-Have players b/w 14-20.

How dare you say this team is "Over-achieving", the Warriors have had one of the best records in the NBA "Post- Stephen Jackson." If Jackson wasn't suspened and we managed to get 2-3 games we be in the thick of getting 1st place in the West and your tone would probablly be different.

Most importantly, the warriors have been playing with heart, and besides have one of the top-3 toughest schedules in the NBA.

The only flaw with the team is that were missing the coveated Big-Man, to rebound and post up. That's only one piece! When we have that, we won't need to hoist up so many 3's, and force the long rebounds.

Realisitcally its only going to get tougher in the west, especially when the LA Clippers, and Portland get there core guys back. So might as well try it again, this year. Especially when there are no clear cut favorites in the West, and Match-ups are key.

I didn't think they can win a Championship, but I still BELIEVE they can win a Championship.

It's startling how so many people watch basketball, yet so few actually play it.

by 3 The Hard Way on Mar 26, 2008 2:26 PM PDT reply actions

Never mentioned "lottery"

If you read the diary, you might have noticed that.

The whole point that it "might be better to miss the play-offs," is that it MIGHT provide a wake-up call for those who may have thought this team is fine as it is. But if the Warrior's management is as bright as most of the people commenting on this thread, I doubt the failure to make the play-offs will make much of an impression.

In the end, it doesn't matter what we "think." The Warriors record will speak for itself. If they're really that good, they'll breeze into the play-offs, and sweep into the finals.

And when they don't, you still won't remember this diary.

by formerlythecity on Mar 26, 2008 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Re:

"If their really that good?", No team is really that good. Is there a great team in the Western conference that's going to breeze into the play-off's, and sweep into the finals? NO!

Every team in the Western Conference is playing with their lives on the line, playing hard and letting it all out. Because these teams like most posters on this thread, believe they have a fair and good chance of winning.

Like I said in my previous post, it's Match-ups, Match-ups Baby! Why are you so worried about Utah, their the 4th seed, were 8th. For what its worth they can be eliminated in the 1st round. Not to mention the Warriors have beaten every team that is playoff bound before, some home and away.

I know you didn't mention Lottery, but your post sounds a lot like those people who can point out problem's but don't provide solutions. So i responded with a logical response and pointed out the benefits of missing the playoffs.

As for your "Wake Up Call." You make the most of the cards you were dealt, you don't complain about them. We were dealt one of the toughest schedules, a 7 game suspension to our captain, the toughest competition ever in a conference, and for crying out loud 12 seasons of failure and mismanagement (trying to do what everyone else was doing getting a traditional PG, star-SG, role-SF, dominant-PF, defensive-C), to finally have a fighter's chance of competing and winning.

I'm telling you now, the sum of the parts are bigger than the individual pieces. We win games when no one else thinks we can. Our run-and-gun style is whats winning where so many traditional style are failing. Management already tried this summer to get "KG", we traded the face of the franchise, and look were still in the mix of the playoffs, and 6 games out of first place.

I don't need a wake-up call like missing the playoffs to know that, we could be better.

Stephen Jackson says..."I make love to pressure." and i say "COLD-BLOODED!"

by 3 The Hard Way on Mar 27, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions

Wake up call?

Dude are you serious? Mullin knows we need inside help. The fans know we need inside help. We don't need to miss the playoffs to be aware that we need inside help. You think its easy to get inside help? You think it is easy to draft a potential allstar bigman? Mullin tried by trading JRich for Bwright. He tried again by signing Webber. In the end we did not get inside help for this season, so Nelly is working with the tools he has. However Nelly is picky about what tools he uses. Look at Houston, they lost Yao Ming, their only inside scoring presence. Did they tank the season, believing that they can't go far into playoffs? No, they went on a 20+ games winning streak which will most likely secure a playoff spot for them. Are the Rockets overachieving? Probably, but that shouldn't stop them from trying to make the playoffs and possibly contend for a championship.

There is no telling what is going to happen next season. What if we do add inside help, but at the cost of Biedrins or some other player. What if by bringing in new players we lose that strong chemistry? What if Portland, Denver, and the CLippers improves significantly, which then pushes us out of the playoff race? Wouldn't the Warriors be kicking themselves for tanking the season and missing the playoffs during the 07-08 season just because some fan told them to? What I am trying to say that there is no guarantee that a team would make the playoffs because things do happen. Injuries could occur, trades could affect the team's chemistry, players and coaches might get into conflicts with each other. Look at Dallas, they had the best record last season and now they are barely hanging on to the 7th spot. Look at Chicago, they were an up and coming team in the east a year ago. Look at them now, they are back to the lottery.

We are in a very good position now, with Baron being healthy and Jack playing at an allstar level. That could all change next year. We should take advantage of that this season.

One more thing, we might not be championship contenders, but we are certainly playoff contenders. We are not going to sweep into the playoffs and win a championship this season, but again so what, just as long as our boys put up a good fight and upset some teams along the way. As a Warriors fan, I have been suffering long enough, by making the playoffs that is enough to make me happy for the time being. We are still a young team and it is going to take us several years to become serious championship contenders. Be patient.

by Snake Eyez on Mar 28, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions

ummm

warriors actually out rebounded the lakers monday night with out having AB having a great rebounding night. Warriors are 9th in the league in rebounds per game at 42.7. They are 19th in blocks per game just under the Celtics. Spurs are 26th in blocks per game would you consider them a "big" team?

Is Yao not a good big player. If i recall i think the warriors played him decently. Dirk they play him well. They can't Beat utah ok. I think it has more to do with that Williams and AK 47 match up with BD and jax better then any team in the league can. Warriors aren't thin on talent they have the best 1-3 in the league. what teams 1-3 match up with the warriors.

Warriors are overachieving? They haven't lost back to back games since January, i don't know i'm pretty sure overachieving teams have probably lost a few back to back games. After the o-6 start the Warriors have one of the better records in the league.... OVERACHIEVING! get out of here with that. how many teams 16 games over .500 are overachievers? that's just ridiculous.

Warriors are small, they take bad shots, they are fun to watch because they are a good team i don't know if you realized that. Warriors are who they are and play their game. Shot selection should be better but that can be fixed. Oh and i don't know what the point is to making the playoffs. why don't you ask denver, dallas or every other teams in either conference? I always thought you played sports to win. maybe that's just me

Warriors are like Soap Opera's for men.

by Kleenex on Mar 26, 2008 2:41 PM PDT reply actions

man

u have probably been a warrior fan for what.. probably one year? clearly u probably havent witnessed what i have for so bad years. hell id wouldof been happy last year if we got sweeped by dallas, but still made the playoffs. Making the playoffs is key to our team and if it would be better not to make the playoffs with our record right now to have it better for us, that would be very wrong.

by GSwarrior on Mar 26, 2008 2:56 PM PDT reply actions

Monta is part

of the defensive problem. He doesn't play good man to man defense and always allows his men into the paint. But, he will get better as he gets more experience. Remember how young he is.

Missing the playoffs this year would be devastating to a squad that really believes it deserves to be there. I don't know if any of you are SF Giants fans, but I remember in 1993 when the G-Men won 103 games and missed the playoffs. That was one of the most disappointing moments of my whole life. If the Dubs get to 50 wins and miss the playoffs, it will be dejavu all over again.

!!Spree for three!!

by peteb24 on Mar 26, 2008 3:00 PM PDT reply actions

yep

Monta is a terrible defender imo. That big D Fish 3 in monday's game he was suppose to be covering him but he was crowding the lane to much and left him to much daylight. I still can't believe for being as quick as he is how slower players seem to blow by him like its nothing.

Warriors are like Soap Opera's for men.

by Kleenex on Mar 26, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Monta

will get better though. I think he is scared of the contact on the outside. He doesn't move laterelly to cut off the drive, instead he's always looking for the steal.

If Nellie has one fault it's that he hasn't demanded good defense from Monta, Beans or Baron. Beans is always in foul trouble because he hasn't been taught how to be a shot blocker. It's incredible to me.

!!Spree for three!!

by peteb24 on Mar 26, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions

That sucked big time.

Damn Fodgers.
I believe!

Proud Sponsor Of: The San Jose Giants Baseball Team 2008 is gonna be big! http://www.greenlightjerky.com

by GreenLightJerky on Mar 26, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Perplexing

I have to agree with a few of your points. Our lack of a deep rotation may hurt us in the long run as players start to get fatigued.

However, it would be a step back if we miss the playoffs. As mentioned before, the Warriors have been one of the best teams in the league since the trade with Indiana. They have their nights were they just don't have it, but, with the exception of their opening skid, the Warriors have not had a long losing streak.

They have beaten quality opponents and showed that they can play with playoff tested teams. Utah gives them fits, but their is always one team that just seems to have your number (and by the way, the series against Utah was well fought and in no way close to being humiliating.)

With the western conference being so close, it will be all about the matchups. If we get a team we can match up well against their is no reason we can't get deeper in the playoffs than last year. Hopefully with the remaining games, some more players begin to earn Nelson's trust and make us a team very few opponents want to face.

by tangel29 on Mar 26, 2008 3:10 PM PDT reply actions

3 The Hard Way

"I didn't think they can win a Championship, but I still BELIEVE they can win a Championship."

Word to that and Well put.

Peace.

Romes Mac Mojous

by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Mar 26, 2008 3:16 PM PDT reply actions

what the ????

Do u expect to be great after one season? That only happens in Boston. Even the Lakers had to work around Kobe, miss the playoffs? Making the playoffs will only help us get better and have more experience together, young and old!!! You don't believe, we're still in the 8th spot... The best thing about this team is the unorthodox style, yea nellie does some qustionable coaching!!! But he is the reason we're even at this level, him and the chemistry he allows these players to have... 1st to 8th in the western conference is a matter of 5-6 games and you're giving up and saying they are better off not makin the playoffs. Too Bad!!!

by DemDubz on Mar 26, 2008 3:17 PM PDT reply actions

Rebounding...

is a mentality and technique (as is defense). That is what Nellie tries to instill in his players. However, today's players have difficulty listening to his preaching. Most people think you have to be tall or big to rebound and play defense - Nellie played in an era where that was not true and still is not true. Remember Dennis Rodman (6'7")? Conversely, being athletic and able to run up and down the court is not a matter of technique.

An analyst on ESPN radio said today that how could college player Eric Gordon (Freshman from Indiana) help an NBA club win when he can't even help a college club win. That pretty much sums up Nelson's thoughts regarding our young talent and is why the NBA is contemplating a 20 year old age limit (among other reasons). The NBA has way too many young players who are not ready to contribute to wins - adding another lottery pick will not change our fortunes, we draft horribly anyway.

by triplesix on Mar 26, 2008 4:01 PM PDT reply actions

moot point now

if there was a time to tank and angle for a high lottery pick, that turn-off was miles ago - it's simply too late to gain anything meaningful from missing the playoffs now

lots of good points above, to which I'd second many such as attracting other players here, but I'd add to those that you have to be at the party to have a chance to land the prize, miss the playoffs and we don't even have a chance at the opportunity to knock off the Mavs, take on the Jazz...

Lastly, I'd really like to see Monta in the playoffs again - either he's really grown and matured and that will show in the playoffs or he's just a regular-season wonder and will be a shrinking violet as he was last year in the playoffs. Similarly I'd like to see AB's play improve not only over the last season's playoffs but just over the past month. Playoff crucible is the time to judge these two, and maybe K Az too, before we have to decide how much$ we want to expend on them ...

by hardcore on Mar 26, 2008 4:23 PM PDT reply actions

I agree

I'd love to see Monta make up for last year's playoff debacle.

I feel bad for the OP because he's getting torn to shreds for slightly misplaced logic, but i see what he's getting at.

We aren't an elite team. We aren't a great team. We're a pretty good team that shows flashes of greatness.

Are we overachieving? I don't think so. I think the West is really tough, and are right around where we should be. We are maximizing our results with the personnel we have and are willing to play. Argue as much as we want, but Wright, POB, and Belinelli probably won't give us back 2-3 games from this season.

Ultimately i do believe this team has too many faults for it to ever be a championship caliber squad. I think its unbelievably shortsighted for fans to rather have a good flashy team than a great, championship-quality team.

Its not the best idea for the OP to suggest that its better for the warriors to miss the playoffs than to make it. But i do agree that we have too many faults in our team to ever go further than the second round in the playoffs.

I do believe we need a roster shakeup.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Mar 27, 2008 2:48 AM PDT up reply actions

wow

you are a ignorant bandwagon person. NOT make the playoffs are you mad, whats next let trade monta and bd for more role players. and all the stuff you said made no sense. if they were so bad they would not be 8th or have a record that high. its not like they are in the playoffs and down 15 games like the leastern conference. i cant believe you wrote all that obvious stuff to wow lol!

What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Mar 26, 2008 4:29 PM PDT reply actions

You "win" the post with the

most quotes and "repetitive" statements in a post this year. You say getting blown out like it is an inevitability. Just like last year against the 67 win team right? Musta been gimmicks. No, Nelson just politely asked the opponents during our 43 wins to give us the game so that he could be a "mad genius."

Utah was frustrating, but give us that last minute and a half of game 2 and the Warriors are on their way to a 2-1 lead.

OK, you are no Monta or AB fan and don't want to sign them to big deals. But when has not extending or resigning your best young players ever resulted in immediate playoff success? (Note, you must be stoked we didn't re-sign Agent "0" and I am sure Cleveland is stoked they didn't give Boozer all that money he found in the "Mormon" state.)

In fact, you are right. I don't want an undersized, 22 year old, lightning quick guard who can score at will, is improving his game in every category this year and recently became only the 9th guard to average over %60 from the field in a month in NBA history.
Furthermore, I would never pay for a 21 year old center who can run the floor, shoots 62% from the floor and is almost averaging a double double.

In fact, lets let all of our free agents, including baron, walk and start over with free agency and the draft. Let's go out and get The Matrix and Elton Brand. We can have a starting five of C.J. Watson or whoever we get in free agency, SJax, Matrix, Brand and Diop if he is available or even B Wright. Is that gonna be a better team? It will sure cost a lot more.

by belli nellie on Mar 26, 2008 5:05 PM PDT reply actions

lol

warriors are NOT better off missing the playoffs. poster is making an idiotic statement. check the boxscore for the lakers game. WARRIORS actually outrebounded the lakers.

by pree t zinta on Mar 26, 2008 6:03 PM PDT reply actions

Better off missing the playoffs?!?

Tell that 2 the players... the real fans... the organization... you just don't give up in sports, esp. the Dubz. I don't know about u but...

...and it's like that! Coz' that's the way it is... Dubz!

by Tony.psd on Mar 26, 2008 8:01 PM PDT reply actions

haha

i think he got you guys all fooled. This is one of these pessimist posts used to make ourselves feel like underdogs thereby propelling us to the win...right? or were you really serious?

by saintdee on Mar 26, 2008 8:11 PM PDT reply actions

I dont even know how to respond to that

Not to be a douche or anything, but posts like these and the one by Iggy on beans make me sick to the stomach. Most of your points have been rebutted already so I don't have to go over that (my favorite is the "humiliation" against Utah, did you watch that series?)
But beyond some subjective points about your thoughts on the team that are arguable, I fail to understand how getting the 14th pick or so would be different than say the 17th or 18th. You think this is worth a playoff appearance to a team that went through 12 years of torture and after the euphoria that were last years playoffs? I think Zank Vank's point about establishing a culture of winning is especially important here, as well as other points made by other on the importance of playoff experience. Those are the kinds of things that beyond all else are by far the most important part of ANY successful sports franchise (draft picks dont even come close).
So not only do you do an ignorant job of analyzing the warriors in general, but you fail to even understand basic fundamentals of a successful sports team. Maybe posts like these should just be deleted.

by st jean ruined my childhood on Mar 26, 2008 8:35 PM PDT reply actions

Never said anything about a "lottery" or

a draft pick being the benefit of missing the play-offs. The potential "benefit" of missing the play-offs would be to disabuse people who persist in "believing" this team is a serious play-off contender, and force the changes in personnel necessary to actually make the team BETTER. So that the Warriors might actually BEAT Utah some day. If you read the diary, perhaps you would've noticed that. But you're right, posts like yours should probably be deleted.

If the Utah series made no impression on you, the Warriors missing the play-offs this year won't either. "Real fans" don't pay attention to stuff like that. Go Warriors.

by formerlythecity on Mar 26, 2008 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions

oh

yea because missing the playoffs for oh 13 years seemed to help out a lot. I'm sure glad we got all those good draft picks. ridiculous man.

Warriors are like Soap Opera's for men.

by Kleenex on Mar 27, 2008 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions

and

all those changes in personnel.

Warriors are like Soap Opera's for men.

by Kleenex on Mar 27, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions

ok he sort insinuated something correct...ish

WE NEED A BIG. we need a big. also: we need big man rebound block sentence fragment

If I didn't waste my time doing this I'd be doing something even less satisfying, like your girlfriend.

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Mar 26, 2008 9:16 PM PDT reply actions

idea

lets can Nelson, Hire Montgomery back and suck for another decade. Seriously dude dont bring us down with all that hot air. Go back to LA

by highflya on Mar 26, 2008 9:17 PM PDT reply actions

I WILL

PERSONALLY throw this guy off the bandwagon......

PLAYOFFS OR BUST

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Mar 26, 2008 11:05 PM PDT reply actions

ridiculous

Being confident and adopting the mantra of "We Believe" is a position of optimism, motivation and self-confidence. But don't get it twisted. You're mistaking all that for a delusion of granduer, which is not the case. The Warriors are aware of their strengths and weaknessness. You're not seeing anything that everyone else is already seeing and missing the playoffs is a dumb way to fix anything.

You're saying that missing the playoffs will wake us up to the reality that we're not an elite team and that we have holes to plug??? That small ball is not a guaranteed ticket to the O'brien trophy? Wow. What amazing insight u have. I laugh at people that say that the fans and management are ignorant of the fact that we get beat by size. We don't need to miss the playoffs to know where our limitations are. And to even propose that as some sort of solution is ridiculous.

The Warriors gave up a premier guard for a lottery big man. Earlier than that, they drafted 2 guys over 7 feet tall. Do you think that you're such a "real fan" that you're the only one that notices that we get overpowered by big men. This diary reeks of unfounded arrogance.

I pray i never have to use a gun again.

by ssmokinjoe on Mar 27, 2008 1:43 AM PDT reply actions

is this really pessimistic?

or just a valid critique?

i am one of those "pessimistic" people who think that this team is fun to watch and amusing, but incredibly limited.

the west is incredibly stacked where almost any onee of the top 9 teams could beat the other. the only problem is, i doubt the warriors could beat any of the other 8 teams more than they could beat the warriors in a best of 7 series.

Nelson has definitely made this team go and its amazing how he has maximized this talent, propelling them to 16-17 games above .500. but you have to admit that said points are extremely valid. as we all know, the Warriors are completely inconsistent. we all know that they have the tendency to let less stellar role players look like superstars. the Ws let ronny turiaf look like Amare Stoudemire. Heck, even several of you posters mentioned in the sac game that the Warriors made Mikki Moore like Stoudemire.

formerlythecity isn't necssarily advocating that the Warriors actively miss the playoffs, but rather that they'll probably miss the playoffs because of the points articulated. and IF that's the case, then would it seem right to retool the roster or gameplan a bit to be even more competitive?

using the 'pessimistic' card is a cheap shot. if we all think being 16 games over .500 only gets us the 8th spot, is that 'good enough?' even when the Warriors were horrible and I was loyal to them, I was still extremely critical of what was happening.

by dj fuzzylogic on Mar 27, 2008 9:21 AM PDT reply actions

yes,

you bring up a good point. nellie has brought out a lot from these guys in a short period of time. but imagine a more muture monta and bw next year. what's wrong with some playoff experience and atmosphere for a developing team. going to the lottery doesn't gaurantee a good player and only complicates things more. the goal should be to keep what we have and develop them to their potential. some changes in playing style and coaching style need to be addressed, but we have the personnel to get the job done. the league is materializing into dominant power forwards rather than dominant centers. and straight-up half-court teams are getting beat by run-n-gunners. if you think rebounding is a problem, it is. but only because of the style of play puts our rebounders out of position. I think the dubs are built for the future. let's try to keep it that way.

"No Respect! I tell you man, No Respect!"

by oldskool on Mar 27, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions

Keep in mind...

that changing the style, and culture would mean we would have to change Management. Mullin played for Nelson, and for a majority of his career, eat, breathe, and sleep Nellie-Ball. Nellie-ball has been the only winning style of basketball we've had these past 20-years. Until we get another proven commodity around here, its Nellie-Ball or bust!

Stephen Jackson says..."I make love to pressure." and i say "COLD-BLOODED!"

by 3 The Hard Way on Mar 27, 2008 10:21 AM PDT reply actions

Seriously...

Dave Cowens and Rick Adeleman failed in Oakland. Not everyone can win with limited talent the way Nellie can.

by triplesix on Mar 27, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions

not necessarily...

nellie-ball has evolved a bit with the diffrent teams he's coached. at dallas, there wasn't as much running as there were half-court plays ran thru dirk. and the year's stay in NY, he just didn't have any good players that could finish a layup. you don't see nelly making beids shoot 3-pointers (a la manute bol). so, you don't need to change personnel to make adjustments in style of play.

"No Respect! I tell you man, No Respect!"

by oldskool on Mar 27, 2008 10:51 AM PDT reply actions

why all the discussion?

Are we better off missing the playoffs?

Is that even a question? It's not like we're sneaking in to the last spot in the East with a losing record. We're competitive in one of the hardest conference battles in years. And every team is clearly beatable by one or more other teams. Anything is possible.

And after years of having the lottery be the most exciting part of the season, how can you wish to go back there?

arguing on the internet is like runnin in the special olympics . . . even if you win you're still retarded

by BoomRich on Mar 27, 2008 11:21 AM PDT reply actions

AMEN

Totally agree- with FormerlytheCity.
Until we get some interior presence and solid "D" the W's can't go deep in the playoffs.And I do believe,I'm a Warriors since (1970) long before most of you.I remember well our ONLY championship (that team played solid D).You can't play on the edge every game and expect to come out on top in the end-not feasible!

Dr. Jeff

by JEFFSJAZZ on Mar 27, 2008 1:41 PM PDT reply actions

lol

why do you have jazz in your name?

anyways... we miss the playoffs FO might not want to spend money. ever consider that?!

by saintdee on Mar 27, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree. Not!!

Formerlythecity's main point is to have the warriors miss the playoffs in order for the front office to make changes in the off season. Everyone here agrees that the Warriors need inside help, but we shouldn't tank the season because some people do not believe that we could go far into the playoffs. The Blazers can't go far into the playoffs , however I guarantee you that they would switch records with us in a heart beat. Every team wants to win, every team wants to make the playoffs no matter how tough the competition is. We don't play much D, so what? Phoenix doesn't play much D, so does that mean they should miss the playoffs too?

So as a Warrior fan you would want the Warriors to tank the season? That would make us a one hit wonder wouldn't it? Are you that afraid of San Antonio, LA, and Utah that you would just tell the team to give up and try again next year? What if we had done that last year? We wouldn't have made history. Come on fellas. It is never a good idea for an organization to lose games just because they think they cannot compete with the competition.

by Snake Eyez on Mar 28, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions

So ... What is a ... Serious Play-off Contender?

Diary author hangs everything on something that is never defined, being a Serious Play-off Contender.

He didn't say a -Finals- contender.
Or a -Championship- contender.

From where I sit, being in the #8 spot already makes Dubs a serious -playoff- contender.

# of wins? Beating X number of +.500 teams? What is your measure of how you define a Serious Play-off Contender (at the start of the season; not waiting until you see this year top teams in the West are all within 5 games at years end.)

by soem on Mar 27, 2008 6:12 PM PDT reply actions

No desire

, it looks like we are allready in the lottery and Blazers are fighting for playoffs.

by buky on Mar 27, 2008 8:00 PM PDT reply actions

Al is

the smartest player in history of NBA...asdf!!! WHY does jax pass the ball on an open three WTF!?!

by buky on Mar 27, 2008 8:03 PM PDT reply actions

Whatever your reasoning was

even if it had nothing to do with the lottery pick, the same point still holds, which is that a culture of winning is by far the most important part of any franchise. Whether you like it or not, the base that we have now with BD, monta, Jack and AB are going to be here for the long run. Whether you like Nellieball or not, it doesn't matter, these players need to win and they need to play in big situations. To make losing an option is just so absurd. You don't know whats going to happen in the future (which is why its value is always discounted in all applications), so to say to lose now just to "send a message" really isn't logical (even if your points against the warriors are logical, which I definitely don't think most of them are). Plus, Nellie has 2 more seasons in him tops, so don't worry, he will be gone soon enough for you anyways.
It boggles my mind that people think that having a perfect team is so easy. Look, we're a good team that in normal season would be around a 4 seed. Being a championship contender just isn't even a possibility in the next couple years nellieball or not, its something that takes a long time and a lot of luck (which is why so few teams come close). Sit back, have fun, and enjoy a really good team that might advance in the playoffs. And if those 12 years aren't enough to show you this shouldn't be taken for granted, i don't know what will.

by st jean ruined my childhood on Mar 27, 2008 11:04 PM PDT reply actions

Lol

Oh boy here we go again.Iggy? Hello?! EVeryone knows the warriors needs? Interior defense, post presence--no one is debating your point formerly the city--they're debating your give it and go home attitude. First off true fans don't do that. Yes we will have difficulty playing strong inside out opponents. That doesn't mean we CAN'T beat them! It just means we have to use our STRENGTHS
to over come our deficiencies. WE BELIEVE WE CAN!

(which dj fuzzy, is not labeling, but proof of this negative attitude since strengths aren't mentioned)

If you can't root for a team with weaknesses try a different sport with teams that are superloaded with talent that have little to no chance of losing...maybe like football and the New England Patriots...Oh yeah.. I forgot any team can be beaten on any given day..
That's what being a fan is all about..not giving up and criticizing your team for the weaknesses but cheering them on despite them..Go Dubs!!!

by 11allstar on Mar 31, 2008 10:29 AM PDT reply actions

Huh?

Nobody is advocating "tanking," or "giving it up and going home." Some people around here seem to actually think that a discussion on some blog in cyberspace is actually going to CHANGE the play of the Warriors. Despite what you may "believe" about your favorite team, modern science suggests they will finish where they finish. And they will finish where they finish based on how good they are.

When it looked like they were going to sneak into the playoffs, I suggested that maybe the team might be better served in the long term if they had missed them, because it MIGHT force management to look at this team with a more objective eye. Not with the crack addled mind of a "true believer" (which is what some idiots think passes as a "true Warrior fan") but with the cold eyed analysis of a competent NBA professional.

It seemed obvious (to this idiot) that they weren't built to go very far in the playoffs anyway, but the legions of fans here (and potentially Nellie and Mullin) may think otherwise. And getting into the playoffs again might only re-enforce the "wrong" (in my opinion) idea that they DIDN'T need to make changes. Which could result in a new set of long term contracts and the franchise "stuck" with this team for the forseeable future.

That would be fine on the level of "keeping the personality of the team" together. And maybe that's all most fans really want anyway. Nellie can coach the same way into his 80's, the Warriors will make the playoffs every couple years, and be snuffed in the early rounds because they're "too small" or "can't rebound" and the fans will live happily ever after. "At least it's not 12 years!"

Now that it appears that they may not make the playoffs, and miss them because they couldn't beat the very teams they would have to beat in the playoffs anyway, obviously it may not matter "if it would be better that they missed the playoffs." Because they WILL miss the playoffs if things don't change quickly.

In any case, the only question is, "How will the Warriors react to that fact?" To the fact that they fired on all their "small ball" cylinders almost all year, Baron played ALL year, and this team still wasn't one of the eight best in the West? Will they pretend they just need to "wait another year?" Or will they admit their style, and their personnel, are flawed?

My guess is the former, if most of the fans who have weighed in on this issue on this blog represent the feelings of Chris Mullin. Like the patience he showed with Dunleavy, Murphy and JRich, he will be content to live with these guys. He will sign them all to long term contracts, and next year's team will look... exactly like this year's team.

Except a year older.

I'll leave it up to the basketball geniuses who have posted in this thread to predict the outcome of that path.

by formerlythecity on Apr 3, 2008 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions

You all crack me up!

So much drama over these diaries. it's like this high school testosterone rush - i'm a man, i'm a bigger man, woo look at me, i'm a big big man. and then it's let me see how much i can mock the other guy because i'm a funny man. get over it. i'll repost the OG diary so you can re-comment all over it.

And I just read Dubs Fan in Boston's comment - I want some enchiladas now. LOL.

Go Warriors. Nobody can get mad at me when I say "Go Warriors" at the end of my comments.

Go Warriors.

by Fantasy Junkie on Apr 3, 2008 11:45 AM PDT reply actions

I'm the biggest of the small

Or is it the smallest of the big... I can't remember.

In any case, thanks for moving this back to the top. Maybe something that would help is if the Mods could create a section for similar diaries, so that people could easily reference older topics, which could include:

Draft diaries
Free Agency
Trades
Resigning players
We need a big man
etc.

It wouldn't in any way supplant the "Recent diaries" section... just suppliment it in some way.

Anyways, thanks for the hard work.

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 3, 2008 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions

No need for thanks

I just find it funny some of the back and forth dialog that goes on in the diaries.

As far as common diaries, we are continually waiting on the guys at SB Nation to give us an updated version of the site so that we can have these extra features. They've been telling us "it's coming soon" since last year. So as it stands, unfortunately we'll continue to have to deal with the diaries as they are.

by Fantasy Junkie on Apr 3, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Hold on a second...

A software company is selling you something they haven't enabled yet? How is that even possible...

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 3, 2008 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Go Warriors...

I just re-read that... that cracked me up. A little too loud for work.

Go Warriors.

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 3, 2008 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions

There's also

Go Dubs!

You know how people will write you an email that they think might get under your skin or might upset you. Then at the end they put this stupid little =) as if that's going to lighten the mood. That's my equivalent to "Go Warriors!" or "Go Dubs!" or "We Believe!"

LOL

by Fantasy Junkie on Apr 3, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Kinda reminds me of this comic...

He lives in Tennessee and tells a joke about how you can say anything as long as you follow it with "bless his/her heart".

Go Dubs!

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 3, 2008 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Selling software?

No, no, no.

This site is hosted by a company called SB Nation. This blog is under the umbrella SB Nation. We "work" for them. They give us a place to share our thoughts. The SBN 2.0 software is already out (athleticsnation.com) they just haven't upgraded GSOM yet.

by Fantasy Junkie on Apr 3, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Enchilada casserole

Since you asked for it... and it's pretty simple:

Ingredients

Can o' cream of chicken
2 Chicken breasts
6 oz grated cheddar cheese
1 cup of milk/cream/sour cream (ratios up to you, more cream make it thicker)
Half an onion (chopped)
Half a green pepper (chopped)
8 corn tortillas (cut in half)
Tomatillo Salsa (You can use a red if you like)
Salt
Pepper

Salt and pepper the chicken, grill it, then cut it up
Combine cream o' chicken, 2/3 of the cheese, and milk/cream/sour cream in a bowl and combine
Oil a pan and fry the tortillas until flexible
Cook pepper an onion in leftover oil/juices from chicken
Oil a 9x9 in casserole dish
Pre-heat oven to 350
Make alternating layers of tortillas, chicken, onion/pepper mixture, cheese mixture. The top and bottom layers should be tortillas
Top with the rest of the cheese.
Bake for 30 mins.

Enjoy.

Wait... somebody already probably did something similar... crap.

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 3, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Thanks!

I love me some enchiladas. This is no longer Golden State of Mind, how about Culinary State of Mind?

by Fantasy Junkie on Apr 3, 2008 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions

here's my take on this topic...

I love the Warriors to death, and I would love to see them in the playoffs, and do I think they are going to make it..probably, sure hope so. But looking long term, Nelly just isn't the coach to lead this team. I know he made a good run for us so far, but look at his track record, how many championships has he won as a coach? We can't rebound, and have no inside presence. Making the playoffs is something we accomplished last year, but are we championship contenders..NO. Players play to win championships, and with the bench we have, we aren't going anywhere. Look at the other teams in the playoffs, they have players who can come off the bench and give consistent contributions, DUBS do not have that. I roster isn't as good this year, and players aren't playing up to their potential.

Off topic- Barnes needs to stop playing. He ruins the flow of the game with his horrible shot, and barely does anything. I would rather see Brandan Wright out there playing those minutes because at least he is productive.

by celicadriven27 on Apr 3, 2008 12:04 PM PDT reply actions

You may be right on Nelly...

But championship coaches don't exactly grow on trees. Please suggest an alternative. You want to drag Larry Brown out of retirement? Baron+Larry Brown might make Sprewell+PJ look like a shoving match.

Also, if our roster isn't as good and they're not playing up to their potential, how are we even in the playoff picture? How are we 7.5 games out of first (or whatever it is)? It doesn't add up. We're not as far back as you make it seem, but there are some definite areas where there is room for improvement.

Go Warriors!

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 3, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions

I say give Ettore Messina

the job(CSKA Moscow).The first non-American coach in the NBA.I'm sure Belinelli would love it since they're both Italians.And if he would bring David Andersen(AB with post moves) and Matjaz Smodis(Harrington with D mentality)we would have some inside presence.

by buky on Apr 3, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions

to: dubs fan in boston

I can't quite give you a great suggestion as of now, but I was just trying to point out the fact that his mindset needs to change a little bit. Offense hasn't won championships, defense has. How can we expect to be a contender when we don't play defense? He has players that could play if you gave them more time. Brandan Wright has earned more playing time then he is actually getting. I am not saying we aren't a playoff team, but we do need a stronger supporting crew. Pietrus or Barnes off the bench doesn't really strike fear into opposing teams eyes.Neither does any of the other players on the bench. Teams only really have to focus on our Big 3. This team is far from a championship, because we don't beat the teams we need to, and we let no-name nobody's run up n down us. I.e. Chris Duhon or Brandon Bass, Mikki Moore, or even Rafer Alston, who shoots 80 percent when he plays the Warriors. Biggest problem is, and I think a lot of people agree

by celicadriven27 on Apr 3, 2008 9:29 PM PDT reply actions

Defense wins championships...

Defense wins championships...
Defense wins championships...
Defense wins championships...

We've heard it before. But look at the 80s. You wouldn't really consider the early 2000s Lakers team to be a defensive juggernaut, would you?

Championship teams have a good balance of offense and defense. The Warriors have no balance.

Brandan Wright is very inconsistent. He'll go out there and put up nice numbers one day and disappear the next. We've been in the tensest playoff race in league history for the last... oh... 4 months. It's never been the time to experiment.

Nobody beats all of "the teams they need to." The Lakers just lost to Memphis and Charlotte, yet they're still the favorite in the West. Boston lost to Charlotte earlier this season as well, dropped a home/home to Washington, and lost to Philly. Those are all "teams they should beat".

The Warriors definitely have flaws, but Nelly is doing a great job of wringing the most out of what he's got. Next year, the young guys will all be a year older and we'll be one year closer to having all of the horrible contracts off the books. Please be patient and try not to blow everything up because we ONLY went 50-32 this year.

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Apr 4, 2008 6:37 AM PDT up reply actions

If this year

is tough, I can't imagine what will happen next year?Portland will be scary,don't rule out sac-town,Clippers(Brand is back).I can just picture mayhem right now thinking for the next year playoff race.

by buky on Apr 4, 2008 4:20 PM PDT reply actions

ridiculous

this is the dumbest thing ive ever read, if you want your team to get better you win....The difference between the 1 and 8 seed is 7 games, whoever gets in has a chance, the playoffs are gonna be about match-ups, the dubs won 42 last year, their on track to win 50 or more, We should stop blaming don he is the coolest coach in the league who wouldn't want to play for him with his style? and he brought this team back to the playoffs since 94 ....

by FeartheBeard4 on Apr 5, 2008 10:05 PM PDT reply actions