Friction between Big 3 and bench?

by Caught Backcourt on Mar 30, 2008 1:16 AM PDT Comment 37 comments

Interesting blog post by Janny Hu over at SFGate. When she interviewed Jackson after tonight's let down, he commented on the lack of bench contribution.

"We got to get somebody that you don't expect to show up to show up some nights...We need somebody on the bench to get us going, to help us these last couple of games."

We've seen this problem throughout the entire season. Harrington's been spotty. Azubuike faded from his strong performances at the beginning of the season. Barnes looks like a one-hit wonder (the Portland game notwithstanding). I don't remember any Warrior personnel, except Nellie, publicly critiquing the bench this season, so maybe Jackson's comments might help a bit.

Okay, here's the interesting bit about Pietrus and his injury:

"Hopefully he sucks it up and comes back and thinks about the team and fights the injury a little for us. But at the same time, we got to go with what we got, and I feel confident enough that we can get the job done."

Does anyone get a weird vibe from this? I think Janny detects something, since she adds that Pietrus' injury isn't helping "his standing with his teammates."

The Warriors seem too much of a chummy, one-for-all brotherhood for a locker room divide like this, so maybe they just want Pietrus to hurry up and start contributing again and Jackson just got his words garbled a bit. I hope there isn't any actual tension, since the Warriors already have a tall order of winning back the 8 seed.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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It's difficult to tell

from just text alone. Without hearing the tone in which Jack said these things, we can only speculate what's between the lines. Since Jack is a captain of the team, my guess would be that he's trying to motivate the bench to show up and help out, as opposed to simply pointing the finger and blaming someone for the loss. That's how I'd interpret the first quote.

However, the part about Pietrus is a bit weird. I wonder if Jackson and the teammates feel that Pietrus's mindset isn't completely "for the team". There have been a few times during various games when I felt Pietrus was on a different page than the rest of the team on the floor. The most recent one that pops into my head was several weeks ago, when Pietrus had the defensive rebound in the backcourt, and the opponent was trying to take the ball away from him before running off, and Pietrus swung around with his elbow, causing the ref to call an elbow offensive foul. Baron was standing close by, and the camera caught Baron giving Pietrus a "what the hell are you doing?!?" look. I think some of us even commented about that on the open thread.

But then again, the Pietrus quote could be Jackson's way of motivating Pietrus to tough it out. Hard to tell for sure.

by IQofaWarrior on Mar 30, 2008 2:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

it may be

time to boo pietrus if he doesn't play in the game tomorrow.

by saintdee on Mar 30, 2008 2:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

you're an idiot

http://www.contracostatimes.com/warriors/ci_8755984

by Dubmanny on Apr 2, 2008 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey

I'm glad you made a diary about this!! I actually just read the blog by Janny Hu (sfgate.com) and was concerned about the comments JAX made, too...

I didn't want to think too much into it, but wow steven jackson is really calling people out. Since he's a captain maybe his teammates won't take too much offense to it, BUT then again it could totally just cause some unnecessary drama.

In last nights loss against Denver, yes, more than one person had an off night, but I thought the game they played showed a lot of heart... Thinking from JAX's point of view I'm sure it is disheartening to see that the team isn't living up to what it could be, but I don't think it is a lack of effort. When I see someone from the bench come in, they are HUNGRY to make a contribution and quite frankly they are giving it their all. I mean if I were that person I would want my shots to fall, I'd want to block a couple shots... BUT sometimes quite often more than not it just doesn't turn out the way you want it to...

My reaction to JAX's comments about Pietrus is that he thinks Mikael is being a big baby, to suck it up and at least give it a conscious effort instead of riding the pine and seeing your team go through all these emotions without you. But then again I don't know what really goes on in the locker room so of course this is all speculation on my part.

Moreover, it seems like a lot of the guys on the team are dealing with injuries that we don't know about or injuries that aren't publicly announced... We all know Baron is just hurt all over, Monta's finger, plus he gets knocked around so much, JAX with the ankle and toe, Harrington with his finger, Azubuike with his tendinitis and quite recently i've seen his fingers in a gatorade cup, Barnes with his finger and i saw an ice pack wrapped around his leg in last nights game... ETC... ETC... So I'm sure each person is dealing with their own health issues so perhaps its valid for captain jack to call out pietrus on this groin injury.

anyhow, this is getting long so i'll stop.

I hope they kick some butt at rORACLE tonight!!

by starry night on Mar 30, 2008 3:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

dam

i hope this don't start a meltdown.

What you thought that I only played basketball? I AM A Golden State WARRIOR!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Mar 30, 2008 3:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

there's no such thing as

paradise in pro locker rooms - no teams, even the best ones, avoid rancor at virtually any level of competitive sports

that said, Jax is only giving voice to what has been obvious for months & MP has to look out for his future as well as the team's, in fact more so - his worth on the market this summer is enhanced by how he played recently, but would be diminished by either re-injury or playing poorly through the injury

this is time for Barnes and Harrington to rise to the challenge anyway, if we are counting on MP to get us to the playoffs what does that say? Barnes is a difference maker with his energy & rebounding, Harrington forces other teams to adjust with his shooting. Those two are the keys, not MP.

by hardcore on Mar 30, 2008 8:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

haha

i wouldnt be surprise OK????
warrior bench incosistant but
bad lots of time no pts esp
when ossobukey hit the skid
1/3 into season could be jax
way try to get them step up
allready make sense pilgrim???

ANY QUESTIONS???

by KennySeagle on Mar 30, 2008 8:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yummmm...

Ossobukey...

by Sleepy Freud on Mar 30, 2008 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

is that Oxtail??

I love OXTAIL! Or is it just a bone on a steak or lamb chop... if that's the case, not so enticing.

by Baron Von DOOM on Mar 31, 2008 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

umm

no.. in case you didn't know he made a joke with Azubuike's name.

Osso bucco is veal shanks.

by saintdee on Mar 31, 2008 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha ur right

osso buco mean off the bone in eye-talian so veal should be soooo tender it fall of shank bone...is 1 of most delicous dishes ever & mighty kenny drool like homer simpson 4 it 2

ANY QUESTIONS???

by KennySeagle on Mar 31, 2008 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude

u funny

Put a little mustard on it

by The Barnes Supremacy on Apr 1, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I had no idea

never had Osso bucco before.

by Baron Von DOOM on Apr 4, 2008 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They

Need to get more out of Al or somebody!! Jack is right, we've been relying on the BIg Three way too much and now teams are focusing their attention on them. Buke had many chances last night, many open looks, however, he couldn't convert (3-15??), yet Kenyon Martin (12 pts per) got 30 on us!! That's the game! Where's our K-Mart??

by geemoney650 on Mar 30, 2008 9:17 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

bench

we definitely need a stronger bench in order to be a playoff contender. Our bench has been inconsistent and needs an upgrade for next year, I doubt if we make the playoffs with the way our bench has been playing. Monta was off last night with two costly turnovers, one a bad pass to AI for a layup and the other one jogging up the court with the outlet pass hitting the back of his leg. Each possession is critical and can't afford to give away easy baskets.

by shootda3 on Mar 30, 2008 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Commish's rant

I know I am in an extreme minority who do not want Nellie to coach next year, but he messes so much with the heads of the bench players that I am never surprized when our bench disappoints. He sees no problem in letter Baron and Jax (and now Monta although not as much) play through really bad stretches but doesn't seem to have nearly the patience with any other players. He benches Beans to start Webber after touting him as the best center on the team. He hardly tolerates any slippage from Harrington and Wright although seems to be a little more tolerant of Bukie and Barnes (up to a point). He has no assigned consistent roles so the players, other than Baron, Monta and Jax and now Beans with the best center having retired, have any degree of confidence or security.

Now this is off topic and I've ranted before, but one of the problems of Nellie coming back is he will have a big role in the upcoming draft. Mully has had four years to draft or trade for a good to even servicable PF who can give us the help we need on the boards along with Beans. So will we be drafting another European shooter who will ride the bench for the season and have no impact.

I'm rambling because I'm frustrated with Nellie and his brand of basketball, although in all fairness, he has taken us further than any other coach in years and produces a very exciting team and brand of basketball. But how can we compete in the West for the forseeable future (think of Portland next year to add to the mix) with small ball and a bench that lacks confidence in themselves because of Nellie's style.

CWebb is undoubtedly the answer but I forgot the question.

by commish on Mar 30, 2008 10:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

...

by ON THE RUN on Mar 30, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm in that minority too

who would like to see Nellie retire after this season. I agree that he has taken us farther than any coach has for years and has turned the team around 200%, but I believe Nellie's strengths lie in being more of a good transition coach versus a good long-term championship-bound coach (hence, the winning coach stats vs. the championships won stats). I also don't think the team would have to lose any of the momentum or chemistry it has been building since last season with a new coach, but rather, a smart coach would be able to work on enhancing the team's strong points while modifying the areas of weakness that exist to develop a winning strategy that goes beyond Nellieball.

Jax, Baron and Monta all played over 40 minutes last night while Brandon Wright played zero minutes. I don't understand how you can talk about "bench strength" or lack thereof when you don't play the bench in any consistent way. Even if BWright would have been given 5 minutes of play last night, I doubt if it could have made that much of a negative impact, and at the worst, would have had no impact on the game result. And at the very least, it could have shaved 5 minutes of playing time off of one of the starters who will be coming into this "must win" game vs. Dallas fatigued from last night. Dirk or no Dirk, it's going to be a tough game made tougher now.

As far as Pietrus is concerned, I'm in the other minority who feel he's a good player and valuable to the team and I cannot blame him for wanting to make sure he's well enough to return and play without risk of re-injury or diminished performance approaching the summer trade season. It's a little ironic that he's become such a valuable piece of the equation as the Warriors fight for a playoff spot after being kicked around so much during the season, but like I've noticed with Matt Barnes, everybody loves you when you're knocking them down but have a few bad games, and you quickly turn up on the "who needs to be traded" list.

by centerre on Mar 30, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

before you & commish jettison Nelson

please suggest another viable coach who will be able to (1) maximize the talent available on next year's roster as well or better, (2) manage Baron Davis (in a contract year), (3) manage Jackson, and (4) be as big or bigger help to Mullin in the areas of trades and the draft.

Mullin could not give away any of the bad contracts he'd handed out prior to Nelson's arrival. Now with the Indy trade and Foyle's buyout the dubs are back on track to be able to compete in the future - if they make good FA decisions and draft well. Nelson is going to help in those areas.

Mullin's drafts have not been stellar - even when we include the success of AB and Monta the balance is not positive overall. Nelson has drafted pretty well in the past and has an eye for NBA talent - my hope is he'll dip into this draft and pull out another Mitch Richmond quality player before someone else ...

No coach is beyond reproach, certainly not Nelson. His tendency to play the hot hand doesn't build consistency in the bench to be sure, but we don't know what is going on behind the scenes, we only see what's on the screen.

So I'd like to know who else you have in mind before you wave aloha to the only coach who's gotten us to the playoffs since Al Attles.

by hardcore on Mar 30, 2008 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about Al Attles

JB, kidding of course. I agree with all you wrote and still feel it is all history, some bad but mostly good. The question is "where do we go from here"?

I think Nelson is grooming Keith Smart just as he did Avery Johnson, and we saw what happened in the short run after Nellie left. Smart has his pedigree (Indiana) and has a lot of NBA coaching experience under his belt. I'm sure Larry Riley would be a competent coach as well, but with Mully's NBA connections, who knows who he could get, assuming he is NOT the guy who hired Monty which is the conventional wisdom.

With Nellie we know what we are going to get, the good and the bad. If he is a driving force in our next draft picks, it will be guys who can play in his system of small ball even tho everyone would assume he would not coach beyond next year if that.

In terms of Baron, he will do what all NBA stars do in general: go for the biggest paycheck and or head back to LA where he his roots and family. Cohen is not going to give Mulson an open checkbook to extend Baron this next year and Baron is not going to stick around even if Nelson is coaching without the big $$$. In terms of managing Jax, I don't know if that is possible per se. Nellie doesn't manage Jax, he simply puts he and Baron in charge and let's them do their thing. He is only hardnosed with the rooks and Harrington mostly.

With a virtual guarantee we will be over the cap next season after signing Monta and Beans along with our other obligations, we have no choice but work with the the nucleus of the team we currently have plus our two new rookies. So are you satisfied with fighting for the 8th seed in the Wild Wild West under Nelson's leadership? I for one am not and of course could end up eating my words just like earlier in the season when I thought we might be able to pry David Lee loose for Monta. So wtf do I know? Like I said, my rant is more out of the frustration that we have had several years to find a significant PF and become more defensive minded as most of the better NBA teams are. We will never be able to compete with the elite teams in the West under Nelson and I don't think there is any argument there. Is there?

CWebb is undoubtedly the answer but I forgot the question.

by commish on Mar 30, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

this may be blasphemy...

but 32 wins with that lineup was not bad for Monty. Even Nelson admitted he couldn't win with those players.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

by triplesix on Mar 30, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

we're more similar than different

like you - and everyone else here - I'm pretty frustrated too and just trying to be realistic about who can command Baron and Jackson's respect because they're not going anywhere soon.

Nelson has at most one more year as coach, I think he and Baron are a package deal and both will be gone after next season if not sooner (Baron's expiring contract could have some value - we may even trade for the PF of the future who knows? Or he expires and maybe we grab a FA PF - regardless, that's a year or more away from now ...) And I'll go one blasphemous step further, I don't want to re-up Baron a year from now.

If I agree that we are going to be stuck with a very similar roster next season, who better than Nelson to manage it? We are winning more than last year, and BWright is hopefully going to beef-up and help more next season. I don't necessarily agree that we'll have the same roster though - Barnes, MP, POB, and Croshere will all likely be gone. CJ & even KAz may too. We'll see some turnover.

If Smart is as good as Avery, we'd be very fortunate- hope so, hope so.

by hardcore on Mar 30, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keith Smart

I actually think Keith would be a good coach because he's got enough of the Nellieball experience to know what he needs to leave alone and enough experiece of his own to know what he needs to change.

But backing up a bit, I think Nellie is a good coach, he has his weaknesses -- like they all do, but there's no denying his contribution to making the Warriors the team they are today. Mullin, on the other hand, ... well, I'll save that for another diary down the road.

by centerre on Mar 30, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the Italian stallion was Mullin's pick

Not Nelson's. Mullin glowed over the fact he'd had his eye on Marco for years - Nelson didn't know him from a chianti cabernet

So will we be drafting another European shooter who will ride the bench for the season and have no impact.

Unless Nelson takes a bigger role in the draft we may end up with yet another POB, Kosta, Beli ...

as for Nelson's coaching acumen, see below

by hardcore on Mar 30, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay...

Then who do you suggest takes over as coach then? You can't just complain without having a suggestion to follow.

by onetwocross on Mar 31, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

stephen jackson

knows the game, he knows how any comment like that would be percieved. we should take it at face value, the bench isn't doing a good job, we lost the game last night because al harrington and azuibuke didn't hit their wide open jump shots. all of that attention on our big 3 and they were getting plenty of open looks but not knocking them down, and leading to fast break points for the nuggets. we should have won the game 130-119, this game falls on the shoulder of barnes azuibuke and harrington not doing their job. kelenna has some kind of effect on the team when he's playing, the only thing he's good for his grabbing his own missed shots and tipping them back in. but everything just seems to be lethargic, he's the only one who doesn't do a good job of passing the ball, it's hard to explain i just feel like his presence on the floor offensively brings the whole team down. and pietrus could have played, but didn't because he's afraid if his injury is aggrivated it will hurt his free agent status for next season. jackson wouldn't have made that comment if he didn't think pietrus could contribute. last year baron did a similar thing, saying guys in the locker room weren't playing as hard as they were supposed to, both baron and jackson are excellent leaders verbally and by example, gotta take jackson's side with this one. the other guys need to step up and hit an open jump shot, it's just painful to watch barnes buke and harrington shoot the ball at all, because you just expect for them to miss.

by bigbenny11 on Mar 30, 2008 11:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't read too much into it

The Warriors just lost a game to the guys that are right behind them, chasing for the last spot in a tough Western Conference. The entire team was frustrated and stuff like this is going to come out of their mouths .. I'm not saying that Jackson's comment about "thinking about the team" was necessarily appropriate because you shouldn't ever throw a teammate under the bus, but the major context was an incredibly disheartening loss.

by pree on Mar 30, 2008 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

True

I'm sure Jackson didn't mean for his comments about Pietrus to come out so critically.

We're all B.D.'s sidekicks. He's got like five sidekicks. We're like the Power Rangers. - Al

by Caught Backcourt on Mar 30, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pietrus

is getting his payback now...Oh so you dont want to give me a contract? Oh so you dont want to trade me? Well I have an owie now, so I cant play.

by highflya on Mar 30, 2008 1:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

it's all good baby...

monta's gonna start putting up 40 point nights and sh*t. then harrington's gonna go back in time and be able to dunk on somebody.

If I didn't waste my time doing this I'd be doing something even less satisfying, like your girlfriend.

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Mar 30, 2008 2:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I believe Stack Jack's comments...

is a motivational stunt to get the bench going. I'm glad Captain Steve Jack made those comments because he is a leader and he really wants to win. Hopefully someone on the bench took it to the dome, took it personally and steps up. Steve Jack (the only one with a ring) knows that if the Dubs wanna make the playoffs OR win the championship, it's not Only gonna take the big 3 but it's going to take the TEAM as a WHOLE to contribute productively.

I'm sure the bench got butthurt, will play with urgency tonight, and continue to play in this fashion for the rest of this season.

So don't trip Warrior fans. We are gonna be alright. Keep the positive mind set and let it rub off on the Warriors.

We been believin.

Go WaRRIORS still!

Romes Mac Mojous

by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Mar 30, 2008 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I have no problems with what Stack Jack said.

It's true the bench as a whole hasn't helped out the starters very much this year.

Or could it be that Nellie has such a short leash on his bench?

by gswfanforlife on Mar 30, 2008 4:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's a bit of both

It's like a cycle: guys don't play well in limited minutes, Nellie keeps them out of the rotation, they still don't play well in even fewer minutes, Nellie keeps them on the bench even longer...

We're all B.D.'s sidekicks. He's got like five sidekicks. We're like the Power Rangers. - Al

by Caught Backcourt on Mar 30, 2008 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely a double edged sword

Nellie should really loosen his leash on Buike. He's hit some clutch shots in several games while maintaining a calm demeanor.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but Matt Barnes...I love the guy for his intensity, however, he's got to be a -30 every time he checks into the game.

How many "And 1s" have we seen? Stupid fouls (were those Flagrants really neccesary?) terrible passes. Inbound pass are pretty good though. He's really best moving without the ball. He's great at slashing and cutting through the lanes.

And can someone tell him he's not a finisher? Remember the Boston game he almost cost us?

by gswfanforlife on Mar 31, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jax takes a page outta Nellie's book

If you want a fire, sometimes you need a spark.

"Much Props to you Dubs in Boston That was dope. Loved the outro. that was hilarious. LOL. Peace." -ROMESdavidWOOD37

by Dubs fan in Boston on Mar 31, 2008 7:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't blame the bench, blame the system...

with monta, stack, and baron taking the bulk of the shots (without passing or running any offense), the bench isn't given much of a chance to do anything except try to pick up on their misses, play hard D, rebound, and the rest of the dirty work. and when they do a good job when the starters couldn't (the short-of-a-comeback game vs. sac) the starters come back in to get all the glory, but instead they do nothing to gain on the lead. What does that all make me think...

I think nelly is awesome for putting this team together, giving them the tools and knowledge to succeed, and style to win games. but his decisions during the game and play calls are very suspect.

"No Respect! I tell you man, No Respect!"

by oldskool on Mar 31, 2008 2:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

More consistency from the bench from music

We can get more consistency out of harrington and others than the big three if they get some inspiration from the new warriors theme song we just did! please listen at www.myspace.com/slapboyz

by The Slapboyz on Apr 2, 2008 4:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs