Another year has passed...
by Mr. Monday Night on May 1, 2008 2:47 PM PDT
73 comments
Another year has passed. We are now one year removed from the ultimate fan high from the Warriors epic playoff run last year. Who knows... one Tracy McGrady 4th quarter heroic performance in game 7 and we may have been in the conference finals... We owned Houston as much as we owned the Mavericks. One less foul from Robert Horry and there could have been an upset in the conference finals... we did match up well against Phoenix. This would be en route to running the Cleveland Cavaliers out of the championship picture. Maybe we keep Jason Richardson and play the playoff team one full season healthy. I know why they made the trade... it was smart financially (getting Richardson's contract off of the books) and potentially for the future (Wright plays like a beast when he gets the time). Or maybe... we get the dream trade of KG and salary dumps for Wright, Biedrins, Harrington and a slew of picks... banking on a chance to win within the next two seasons. Maybe we trade Baron this season... there's been a lot of talk about that. We can start building for the future again. Everyone talking all this mumbo jumbo about what if's or trade possibilities just remember this: We are only two years removed from having a below average team... and it took 13 years of rebuilding to get to the playoffs... the longest streak ever for any team in any sport. We just had a 48 win season, the most since 1994. Do you really want to go through years of mediocrity to rebuild this team again?
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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umm
huh? what are you commenting on exactly? Rumors? Coaching changes? The move to dump J-Rich?
Longest playoff drought in any sport? Check out wikipedia my friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MLB_franchise_post-season_droughts
Hate to be a Nationals or Royals fan
by belli nellie on May 1, 2008 3:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Baseball doesn't count...
It’s boring
by Mr. Monday Night on May 1, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If...
T-Mac is heroic in fourth, they beat utah, if horry doesnt foul nash, we beat suns at their own style, then cavs in the finals we’d win that WARRIORS CHAMPS!
by warriorsalltheway on May 1, 2008 5:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Lots of questions..
Well here goes…..yes, yes,perhaps, possibly, we did, I can see it now,would been sweet,but dumb mechanically,yep when he gets the time,KG yeah!,win 2, not the beard!, talk is cheap,pump that iron skinny men!, averages are for suckers, 13 years-how long does it take to gesticulate an elephant for christsake?, we be breaking obscure records right and left, no
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 1, 2008 9:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I see what you did there...
...but i’d rather not take the time nor effort to match up your comments with the original post. That’s just annoying.
And to comment on the original post: last season was so good that i don’t mind that you’re treating it like it deserves an anniversary or something. If ever what’s going on with the team now leaves a bad taste in my mouth, i can always access my memories of last season to give me at least a fleeting smile.
I pray i never have to use a gun again.
by ssmokinjoe on May 2, 2008 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya i always think
what if we would played the rockets instead of the jazz and i think we woulda won and if amare and bell didnt get suspended against the spurs they would have won and what a match up it would have been between the dubs and the suns in the conference finals….. but then again baron’s slam on kirilenko was one for the ages…im not gonna complain:)
by FeartheBeard4 on May 2, 2008 12:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's just me...
...but I can’t get excited about that Kirilenko dunk. It happened in garbage time during the one game the Warriors beat the Jazz in, what, the last nine times they’ve played?
by Zack Vank on May 2, 2008 1:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Utah
2006 draft GSW 2nd round 8th pick, Kosta Perovic, Utah 2nd round 16th pick selected Paul Milsap. Who would you rather have? We wouldn’t have traded JRich and would be beating up on Utah right now as the 5th seed. 2008 we’re still looking for our power forward. I hope BWright can prove me wrong and lead the Warriors to consecutive playoffs otherwise can’t agree with the JRich trade and our last two year’s draft picks.
by shootda3 on May 2, 2008 8:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
reverse psychology..
how many times have the warriors in the past traded their proven star player to save money for the future. then they turn around and pay mediocre cats big doe to do nothing but become big disappointments. the dumb thing to do was trade jrich, so they did it. the next dumb move would be to get rid of either jackson or baron. that’s why I’m so sure it will happen. they’ll probably keep harrington, cuz he’s overpaid and underachieving. its just the way the warriors think. . do the wrong thing to get the right result. that’s why nelson is so perfect in this system. ha! anyone feelin’ me on this?
by oldskool on May 3, 2008 12:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummm....
Evidence?
Please answer your question. Stop harping on the JRich trade. Just stop. With him we maybe would have made the playoffs and lost to the Hornets/Lakers/Jazz/Spurs winning at best 2 games in the series. Then you’d be crying about how we’re going to lose the up and coming talent of Monta/Beans because of all the crappy overpaid contracts handed out to players (left on the books would have been JRich/Foyle). Just stop. Please. Get over it, move on.
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 5, 2008 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
evidence..
where’s your evidence that we’re a better team than last year? just because we won more games doesn’t mean a thing. the teams that we were able to beat last season were the same teams we couldn’t beat this season to get in the playoffs. monta is the player easily replaced. sure he can score, but what else do you have is a guy who can’t pass, dribble, rebound, or play D. if he were still a backup, you can still pay him backup player’s money. ever thought of that? you need to give it a rest, imo.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
on a side note...
jrich’s contract wasn’t up. we could’ve kept him for another year, and then just let him walk. (I could be wrong). but there’s your cap space. so, basically, we traded rjich to get bw? forget the cap space. that’s not a good enough reason.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JRich has a huge contract
JRich is due 40M for 3 more years through the ‘10-’11 season. If you don’t believe me, look here:
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/07-08salaries.htm
JRich’s contract was not “up” as you correctly assert, but we couldn’t have “just let him walk”. As we’ve discussed on and on before, JRich was coming off a knee injury. For a high flying “dunk champion” type of player, that’s a death knell. There are also those that are of the opinion that trading JRich for BW straight up is a win for the Warriors anyways.
Whatever… you love JRich, I don’t. A final question: Do you think we would have beaten the Lakers, Hornets, Spurs, or Jazz in a 7 game series without home court advantage with JRich? Yes or no?
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 5, 2008 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no...
but it would’ve been nice to try… and for the fans to watch.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
would you rather
have BW and Monta for the next 5-10 years, or had JRich and Monta this year and then just JRich?
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was asking about your trades...
Where are these “get rid of proven star to save money” trades? That was my first question.
My second point was that we wouldn’t have made it any further with JRich. I never advocated that the team was better this year than last. Never. Try not to change the subject. Sleepy, does that qualify as a “straw man” or is it just poor reading?
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 5, 2008 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You called....?
Do I really have to weigh in? I still a feel a little woozy after this weekend’s 15-rounder. I thought I got him to wave the white flag, but here he is again, like the Energizer Bunny, or Wolverine. The dude’s skull must be made of adamantium…
Anyway, I was kinda hoping you could finish him off yourself. C’mon, get him, champ! I’m here in your corner if you need any stitches or anything…
Sign ^^^^ !!!
by Sleepy Freud on May 5, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted some input on the "straw man"...
Was I correct in calling it a straw man or was it just a misreading. I’m pretty sure it’s straw man, just consulting the expert to confirm my understanding of the term.
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 5, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Straw man
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position. To “set up a straw man” or “set up a straw man argument” is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent’s actual view but is easier to refute
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
In this case, “the team is better this year than last” sure seems a straw man, since it “superficially resembles” your position, but isn’t actually a position you ever took. In his defense, it is a position I took, so maybe he’s confusing us…?
At this point, I’m really not sure what there is to argue about anymore. The pros and cons of the JRich trade have been put forth, ad nauseam. Some of the arguments against the trade—by Atma Bro, Bill Simmons et al. — have actually been pretty compelling, even if I don’t agree with them. I don’t think the stuff oldskool (or you or I for that matter) have said in the last couple of threads has added a whole lot to the discourse on the subject. If anything, OS’s absurd implication that Warriors front offfice has deliberately made bad moves, has lowered the level of discourse to the point of inanity. On a lot of less “democratic” boards, crap like that would get a warning from the dopes.
As it is, my recommendation is just to ignore the really inane stuff. If only I’d follow my own advice….
Sign ^^^^ !!!
by Sleepy Freud on May 5, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, here we go again.
I did drop the subject last week. I come in this morning and it’s you with the new reply. how about mich richmond for bill owens. how about foyle, dun, and murph who got us in this mess in the first place. those were all bad moves made by the dubs. so what were the good moves that you’re supporting they did in the last decade or 2? none of them ever panned out,a dnthe reason for almost a decade and a half of missing the playoffs. this is what I’m talking about; bad move after bad move, and guys like you who can see the reasons why they did made them. you don’t know for sure that they made the right move this time because none of it has done anything for improvement yet. but I know for sure that we had a better team with jrich, money or no money.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
a few
drafting gilbert in the 2nd round, drafting Monta in the 2nd round, drafting JRich, the DunMurphy trade, getting Marc Jackson, letting Marc Jackson leave, letting Eric Dampier go to sign a monster deal with the Mavs. those are a few of the better moves. We’ve had way more than our share of bad ones, nobody will argue with that but its not as if every thing we touch has turned into shit for the past 15 years. The DunMurphy/Foyle signings were awful, but more recent history suggests there is no reason to not trust Mullin now.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow.
great moves, didn’t keep any them long enough to see their potential, no playoffs. next?
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so your argument
is that we didnt make the playoffs for 13 years so every move we made was a bad one? wow, solid argument dude.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know you are
but what am I? I’m just gonna leave you for Sleepy and Boston to finish off, youre talking yourself around in circles and I’m not in the mood to spend the afternoon trying to straighten you out..
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if 13 years...
isn’t enough to prove to you that the bad moves greatly outnumbered the good ones. there’s no hope for you. keep thinking the dubs are making progress. 5, 10, 20 years from now, you’ll still be trying to justify everything.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I SAID
the bad outnumbered the good. Dude, seriously read my posts before you respond. Youre arguing against an argument nobody is making. I know its easier that way but thats why I said youre not making any sense and talking in circles, and thats why Boston said youre using strawman fallacious arguments. You may as well have this discussion with yourself.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the
reason we couldnt keep Gil was financial. If we had kept JRich we’d be in the same position with Monta. Like I said before would you rather have had one year of Monta and JRich only to see Monta go sign with Memphis this offseason or have BW and Monta for years to come?
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
jrich and
monta for one more year, then jrich for one year. In your scenerio we’ll have to lock in monta and bw for 5-10 years. are you crazy? do you love those 2 so much? have you seen how much montas knees are wrapped up every game? and iced down afterwards?
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you wanted to keep
JRich and youre trashing Monta for having bad knees? dude its not even worth arguing with you, you make no sense at all.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do make sense
it was only for another 2 years and jrich contract would be up. foyle would be off the books, and then we can make a move for someone bigtime. our leverage would have been baron, if he still had any value left by then.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone bigtime
like maybe Monta Ellis? Oh no, he would still have 4 years left on his deal with Memphis. And why would the likes of Lebron, KG, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, or Kobe want to sign here? to play with an aging Baron? Its not like we could offer any of them more money than their original teams. We’d have to take a gamble on a young unproven guy, or someone coming off an injury. Monta is a better option to build a team around.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're assuming
I’m not going to argue this point any longer. that is a great assumption you have and all valid possibilites. but still, what makes your opinion better than mine? Who knows what other players will emerge as great players by that time? this is only Paul’s 1st year of proving himself. Who knows who else will be out there. by Tying money up in ellis, you’re gambling big time. if your gamble doesn’t pan out, we’ll be stuck with monta for too long and hindering our ability to go after someone. This is my last post about this. you can have the final word
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every team likes their own superstars
Every team has added capability to re-sign their star players (Bird rights, etc.). Every team has massive incentive to re-sign their star players (fans with jerseys, fans that pay tickets to see said superstar). Superstars DON’T change teams often, and the only ones that do are old and past their prime. What do KG, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd, and Shaq have in common? They’re all really old. Sure, this last year we had Marion and Gasol change teams, but Marion wouldn’t have gone anywhere if it wasn’t for Shaq, Marcus Banks’ terrible contract, and his own “locker room cancer”ness. And Gasol wouldn’t have gone anywhere if his GM knew anything about basketball. Do you really think Chris Paul leaves New Orleans ever? Josh Smith isn’t even going anywhere. Dreaming about these superstars is a pipe dream unless your the Knicks and Nike has a $30M contract kicker if you play in NYC.
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 5, 2008 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you talking to me?
sam23 is the one who said we can have monta for 5-10 years. so, I answered by saying that it would be a bad move to tie up money in another player for such a long time. If we kept jrich, money would be freed up by 2011 and we would be in the position to pick up the next guy you’ll be drooling over. I’m not in love with jrich. but I do see him good enough to keep for the remainder of his contract. and keeping monta and bw is not enough of a reason to have let him go. Do you really think we’ll make the playoffs with these 2 guys as the center pieces of the team? think of denver. iverson = monta, camby = bw (just for argument’s sake. of course they have the better 2) So, they also have carmelo. we don’t. they suck. we suck more. where are you’re senses? stop getting on me for having valid points.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
spending
money on a young guy is NOT a bad idea. I agree with bill simmons when he said monta is the best under 25 free agent since T-Mac. It makes no sense that you want to spend money on guys like JRich but dont want to spend it on a young superstar like Monta. Dubs fan’s point is that we CANT go get someone bigtime. The only way we can pay them more is by drafting them and maxing them out with bird rights. We dont have the appeal of LA, Chicago or NY where the star player can make up the difference with endorsement deals and marketing. The Nuggets suck because their system doesnt fit their personnell and they have zero chemistry. They have as much talent as anyone though. We arent getting on you for having valid points-YOU DONT HAVE THEM. if it were up to you next year we’d have baron, jrich, jack, MAYBE biedrin, zero extra cash and an even later draft pick. Maybe we’d be coming off another 1st round playoff win. would we really be in better position as a franchise?
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes..
thanks for all your comments because I don’t disagree with anything you just said. monta is a great player and is going to demand jrich type money in the off-season. then we’ll have $$ tied up in a better player, but still not good enough to bring us into the playoffs. like I said before is that if we kept him under the wraps as a backup, he wouldn’t of developed so much, and we could’ve signed him for cheap. we would’ve went to the playoffs. and then had a playoff team until jrich contract expires. who cares about zero cash and no draft pick? making it to the first round every year with a chance to go further is better than rebuilding every other year. you want endorsements? creating a team known for winning and making the postseason is the way to gain exposure.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
p.s.
now our playoff run a year ago just looks like a fluke. I believe in “building blocks.” you put one on top of the other to build a tower. you get no where if you keep knocking them down and restarting with new ones.
by oldskool on May 5, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem is
you have to have franchise blocks at the bottom. JRich is not a franchise building block, Monta is.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read this:
TK’s Blog Site Discussing Jrich Trade
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on May 5, 2008 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
great read...
he makes all good points and I don’t deny the facts. but there’s another side/possibility to it that he doesn’t address.
comment #2 tyler says “Tim, you are assuming there were only two options…the option you are not talking about is the one that might have made the most sense — trading Richardson at the end of the 07-08 season to resign ellis and biedrins.
The truth of the matter is that Cohan liked the $10M savings that went into his pocket.”
by trading richardson this season instead of last, we could’ve possibly moved up in the draft taking charlotte’s #8 pick.
by oldskool on May 6, 2008 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tyler the Authority
I’m sure Tyler the Poster on TimK’s blog is an unassailable source, but I don’t think that option made the most sense at all.
What are the chances that a year later, we’d find another team in Charlotte’s perfect storm of circumstances? How often do you find teams with:
1. Lots of room under the cap (this category alone describes only one or two teams a year)
2. A need for a starting shooting guard
3. A GM who loves JRich
4. A first-round pick that’s just high enough to net a valuble player, but no so high that the team would never part with it.
Answer: seldom, if ever.
Further, there was no guarantee that JRich’s value would stay what it was. He’s a player who relies heavily on his wheels; and, as others have pointed out, there may have concern that he might be semi-damaged goods going forward.
Further, if had waited until this year, we’d now have zero leverage in a deal, as teams would know we were desperate to clear cap space. We’d be lucky if we could dump him for cap space, period, let alone snagging a potential NBA star forward in the deal.
For me, Tyler the Poster’s choice is the least sensible of the three options. I’d sooner have just committed to JRich for the duration of the deal, keeping my fingers crossed that he’d return to form (which he seemed to do in the second half of the season).
Either way, one has to admit that there were compelling, rational reasons to make a deal, for the benefit of the franchise’s future success. It pretty clearly wasn’t just about being cheap (the Atma view) or maliciously stupid (the oldskool view).
And, most importantly, the deal is done. Can we move on now?
Sign ^^^^ !!!
by Sleepy Freud on May 6, 2008 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
there were more possibilities than the krich trade. I think we jumped the gun a year too early. by playing the team for one more year, we could’ve made a more logical decision for the 08-09 season.
by oldskool on May 6, 2008 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some good thoughts.
Maybe it was a case of preventative action. Charlotte had massive cap room. Maybe Mullin saw that cap space and his eyes widened. Not many other teams would have that much cap this summer as last year.
Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.
by kenntoe on May 6, 2008 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please, please, please look at this
http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/07-08salaries.htm
This clearly refutes your “just two more years” claim. I’m going to leave it by itself so you might read it.
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 5, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yes
I do love Monta. He’s a better player than JRich already, and he’s younger and still improving. I dont love BW yet, but I like the potential there. Economics not factored in I wouldnt have swapped JRich for BW, but economics are a HUGE factor in every trade.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how about...
could we have kept Jrich for 1 more season and then traded him this off-season instead? Would have been interesting to see how the team came together with a healthy Jrich at season’s start.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on May 5, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
we wouldve
been forced to trade him before Monta signed with another team. That deadline wouldve put us at a trading disadvantage and theres no way we wouldve gotten a young big guy of Wright’s caliber in return, AND we wouldve been hard pressed to find a team with the cap room and willingness to take on JRich. in short the answer to your question is no.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
actually from reading your post it looks like the answer to my question is yes except that we would not have gotten a better deal in your opinion. If you’re saying that no we absolutely could not have kept Jrich for 1 more season then i guess the Warriors’ hands were tied, we had a gun to our heads, and we had no other options.
If i remember correctly, it was Jordan who made the offer to the Warriors for Jrich which is a significant difference than the Warriors trying to shop him. In other words, this shows that despite Jrich’s salary, there would probably still be teams that would have been willing to take him if we waited to trade him. And as far as i know, Monta cant just sign with another team without us having a chance to match (unlike the Arenas situation before). If it came down to that after this season we could then do the moves to keep him.
I’m not flat out saying that the Jrich trade should not have happened, but the fact that others who liked the trade throw out the window that there could have been other options is kind of disappointing.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on May 5, 2008 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jordan
I loved him as a player, but he’s a piss poor front office guy. Charlotte was desperate to get another great player to pair with Wallace. I really think all the stars just aligned to allow us to move that contract. I know JRich was a fan favorite, but the move gave the team so much more flexibility. We wouldnt be able to match offers to Monta if JRich was still on board and I dont think theres any team with the money this offseason that would want to take him. We’ll never know for sure, but I think it was too good of an offer to pass up. Its easy to criticize Mullin now after we failed to make the playoffs, but the fact is he put the team in position to contend for a spot this year and gave them the ability to contend for many years to come.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
to say nothing
of how JRich’s presence may actually have hindered Monta’s development. The confidence Mullin and Nellie showed in him from the start may have had a huge effect on him.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
easy to say
but it’s a broad speculation that Jrich’s presence would have hindered monta’s development. monta was already proposed to develop as baron’s backup pg. I think a talented but not perfect sg in Jrich starting in the backcourt with Baron at the point and being rested by Monta is a notch or more better than a hot monta with no real backup and a worn out baron with no real backup.
As far as Jordan…it’s easy to criticize him as a front office guy, but that doesnt mean that he’s the only GM out there willing to make these kinds of trades. I’m pretty sure you cant deny that given all the lopsided movement that happend this season. So i guess stars align more often than we think.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on May 5, 2008 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah really smart
“it was too good of an offer to pass up. Its easy to criticize Mullin now after we failed to make the playoffs”
Plenty of people were criticizing Mullin the day of the trade cause they knew that blowing up a team as soon as it shows some sign of life is counter productive. Jason was right at the top of the 3 point shooters this past season and we sucked when it mattered so who was right?
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 5, 2008 10:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was on that boat...
But when you actually look at the numbers… 4 years/51M left for a guy who was coming off a knee injury and with two great up and coming young players due for contracts… I came around.
I agree that the team may have made the playoffs this year. But we wouldn’t have got out of the first round. With 12M+/year locked up in JRich for the next few years, that’d be our ceiling: first round, second round if we get lucky with a good matchup. I don’t want that. Cohan isn’t going to become Cuban or Dolan any time soon, so you have to work within the construct your given. Mullin is learning to do that.
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 6, 2008 6:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
work within the construct your given
You mean be given a second round team and turn it into a zero round team? How much would the missed playoffs have added to the bottom line this year? Will Mullin now overpay Monta and Dris with the money saved by running off Jason? Are we churning our way to nowhere?
by Skeptic con Urquell on May 6, 2008 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Answers
You mean be given a second round team and turn it into a zero round team?
Yeah, they didn’t make it this year. This year was tough. But do you really think a Warriors team with JRich would have made it out of the first round? If we made the playoffs and then lost, would we be any better off now?
How much would the missed playoffs have added to the bottom line this year?
It would have probably made a few million, but that wouldn’t matter towards the salary cap.
Will Mullin now overpay Monta and Dris with the money saved by running off Jason?
No, given recent precedent: BD, Pietrus, Beans, Monta, Barnes not getting re-signed for more than market value. Mullin hasn’t let himself get pushed around since Nelly’s been here. I don’t see that happening. And no matter what you say, they’re both going to be in the 8-10M starting range.
Are we churning our way to nowhere?
We’re cutting loose all of the bad contracts from the past. After this coming year, the last one, Foyle, will be off the books. Then we’ll have the $$ and young nucleus to (hopefully) lure a few good FAs to beef up the bench and add depth. Then we’ll see. We now actually have a future, whereas holding onto JRich would have been the smart move this year, but we’d be forced to make some hard decisions this coming year. As has been mentioned before, it’s not particularly likely that we would have found someone to take JRich off our hands this offseason.
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 6, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but we wouldnt have
a better team next year +Jrich and -Monta. Monta is the better and younger player. Think of it as Monta and BW for JRich. Its a great move. It woulda been great if we couldve kept JRich, nobody is saying that it wouldnt have been. But it would also be great if we could just go sign Kobe, Lebron, and KG “money or no money.” Those things just cant happen with the salary cap
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad trades != bad moves
I never said there were many great moves, or even mediocre moves… You are very correct in stating that for 13+ years it was one bad move after another. If that had been your argument to begin with, I would have simply said what sam23 said below: “Yeah, there were a lot of bad moves, but recent history has shown more good than bad, so it’s fair to have higher expectations than the last 13 years”.
However, your initial post was about bad TRADES. I asked for some examples of TRADES, to which you responded with re-signings, drafts, etc. The only trade you mentioned was the Mitch Richmond for Owens. One bad trade does not make a trend of bad trades. Recently, we haven’t had anything to make a bad trade with. With Foyle, Dun, and Murph on the roster, it was virtually impossible to make a bad trade because just getting them off your hands was a win.
Finally, one of those bad moves was signing JRich to a long “All Star” level contract. If they’d signed him for 2 fewer years and $2M/season less, he’d still be here and he would have been a valuable contributor with a good contract contributing to a Warriors playoff team. But, he was signed to a contract for too much money and for too many years. That’s a bad move no matter how you slice it.
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 5, 2008 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
run tmc
Mitch Richmond for Billy Owens, after that trade Warriors never recovered until last year. Dumb trades that weaken, destroy our team chemistry. I hope that we can salvage this team and continue to build. Pietrus was suppose to take a larger role this past season, his poor attitude and Barnes poor play killed our chances. I would let them walk. I would try to sign either JR Smith , Josh Childress or Paul Milsap to replace them.
by shootda3 on May 3, 2008 11:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes another year has passed...
And we are yet again watching teams like Orlando, the Cavs and Houston battle it out while us Dubs fans are wondering how we can at the least make the playoffs.
All I have to say that will put us in the playoffs next year and into the semi’s or conf. finals is one man. JOEY DORSEY!!!
by gabezgsw on May 3, 2008 1:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
seriously
why the joey dorsey obsession around here? Have you watched him play? He’s ok, and I’ve got nothing against him personally…he’s just not THAT good. I’d be pleased if we could land him in the 2nd round, but he’ll never be anything more than a poor man’s Ben Wallace….and Ben Wallace is already a poor man’s something.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dorsey
He’s a guy that has skills that we need. I actually like the idea of picking him up. Some people didn’t think much of the Spurs picking up Kurt Thomas, but he has skills that San Antonio could use to improve.
I pray i never have to use a gun again...
...unless i'm at a strip club parking lot...
...and somebody tries to run me over with their car...
...But how often does that happen??
by ssmokinjoe on May 5, 2008 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh i agree
he has the potential to bring what we need as a rugged interior presence. But to say Joey Dorsey will make the difference for our team next year? a solid rotation player MAYBE. a difference maker doubtful. Like I said I’d be pleased to grab him in round 2, but I’m not getting all worked up about a 2nd round guy. He’s a nice player but so overrated because of the exposure from the team he played on and because he looks intimidating and a little like Ben Wallace. Its very doubtful that he’s even a top 10 rebounding inside presence in this draft. I understand why it would get mentioned that he’d be a nice fit if we could trade up a bit in round 2, but its become something of a cultural phenomenon around here and he simply isnt that great. Chris Taft was supposed to do the same things remember? Granted he had some injury problems but we have a much better record with 2nd round caliber guards than big men.
by sam23 on May 5, 2008 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
passed out ... another year
i feel just dumb and afflicted -somehow tricked by Stern -i saw 74 Dubs games this season live -so many sleepless nights i had this season and no playoffs ??!! -OK -i can live with that -great experience -life is cruel and unfair (i seriously think that Dubs are better team ten Hornets Mavericks Rockets or Nuggets right now) but OK -if it can be
experience 4 me then it can be experience even 4 Warriors players
i don’t care who will win NBA title if Dubs are not in PO
i m waiting 4 Warriors 09
BMW
Biedrins
Monta
Wright
build a team & destroy the roof
by Lat We N Trash on May 3, 2008 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
need to do a Utah
stole Boozer from the Cavs, maybe we can return the favor and get Milsap, Maxiel, or Thomas, otherwise still need a bruiser power forward through the draft. How did the Spurs end up with Kurt Thomas as their starting PF?
by shootda3 on May 5, 2008 7:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
shootda3
Thank you for understanding that the dubs need a power forward but not necessarily a brand or KG blah blah, maxiel?? that would be great hes a beast
by FeartheBeard4 on May 6, 2008 6:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ya...
We need a PF who can:
Rebound
Run the floor
Rebound
Shoot a jumpshot
Rebound
Play defense
Rebound
We can definitely get an adequate PF without breaking the bank for a Brand or a KG. I’m thinking a Brandon Wright type player. We should pick him up. Ok, but seriously we should suppliment BWright with a beefier guy. There are plenty of options here, and we don’t need to break the bank for them (Maxiel, Powe, Joe Smith, Collison, Gooden, Haslem, Villanueva, etc.).
by Dubs fan in Boston on May 7, 2008 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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