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The Warriors seem to be filling their plates with forwards and centers at the moment. Depending on free agency we have a glut of big and biggish men: Biedrins, Perovic, O'Bryant, Wright, Harrington, Randolph, Hendrix and even Croshere. With Randolph, hopefully, panning out to be a decent small forward with an inside game, we even have a good number of small forwards and swingmen: Jackson, Pietrus, Kelenna and Barnes.

The missing link here is depth at the point guard position. I know Hudson's injury last year really depleted the Warriors but not doing anything about a replacement for so long and then under utilizing the replacement is borderline inexcusable. I really hope Baron stays beyond next season, but for this season to pan out in the positive whatsoever and for the team to even smell the playoffs we can't let Baron, and to a lesser extent, Monta, play upwards of 35-38+ minutes per game (39 and 37 mpg for Baron and Monta respectively last season is absolutely way too much.) I thought CJ Watson could have been better if he played with any amount of confidence, and I think if he feels like he's an integral part of this team he might have that needed confidence next season. But when he sits on the bench for a guy to play nearly 40 mpg he has no rhythm or drive when he gets those garbage minutes.

Now, to my point, the Clippers drafted Eric Gordon, not really sure if he's a one guard or a two guard, but, coupled with that pick I heard that the Clips didn't exercise their option to keep Shaun Livingston (I'm still looking for a conclusive article on this - I saw it scrolling on NBATV.)

Despite his horrific injuries, I think Shaun Livingston could make a decent backup PG to split the remainder of the PG minutes with CJ. His injuries surely bring his perceived worth around the league significantly down, which could mean he might be picked up on the cheap in free agency. Signing him to a minimum salary one-year contract seems fairly low risk with the chance that he might re-injure himself.

The impending free agencies of many of our players (particularly some of those bigger guys and smaller forwards I spoke of) will change the tone of this conversation, but at the moment, whether or not people agree that Livingston should be the backup PG, I think, or hope, that since we've drafted two big men (again) that the Warriors need to pick up a decent PG to backup Baron this season.

Thoughts?

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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backup PG/SG

Livingston has been discussed in the past on this board, and as a big PG, would be someone that could play alongside Ellis. The closest thing I could find to what you mentioned regarding his status with the Clippers was the following quote in a small SoCal newspaper:

The team’s most obvious need is at point guard. Livingston only recently was cleared to begin basketball-related activities and the team has not decided whether to extend a qualifying offer.

Other than him, we should see if we can pry loose one of Memphis’ 4 point guards. I doubt we can get Mayo or Conley, but Lowry or Crittenton might be able to be traded for.

by Hac Man on Jun 27, 2008 5:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

we need a damn PF

Get Elton Brand than we be back to our old glory days again. And I’m not talking about the 06-07 playoff. Were talking abou the Hardaway,Spree, Mullin, Webber days.

by warriorfan4life on Jun 27, 2008 5:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

we need a PF in the sense of the term that we need a big, muscular guy that can gobble up the boards. unless we trade away a lot of our “big” men then taking on the savior! [sarcasm], elton brand, is redundant and unnecessary.

by so ill so d0pe on Jun 27, 2008 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um.....

didnt we draft a 17 and 8 guy in the 2nd rd ?

This message has been brought to you by Stix.

by STIX on Jun 27, 2008 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually

it was 17 and 11…..in the SEC which is not too shabby

by 3Kings650 on Jun 28, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Free Agency will

be key. Honestly, I think the following will not return:

Patrick O’Bryant
Mikael Pietrus
Kelenna Azubuike

Although I’d love to resign Pietrus and Bookie, O’Bryant and Barnes I wouldn’t care too much about unless they returned at a fraction of the cost, we’re pretty thin at every single position.

As of right now, all we have:

PG: Baron Davis
SG: Monta Ellis, Marco Belinelli
SF: Stephen Jackson, Anthony Randolph

PF: Al Harrington, Brandan Wright
C: Andris Biedrins*

We ultimately need to resign Tay and Dre to extensions immediately because it’ll set us up and let us know where we’re at financially and show us what we can do for the rest of free agency (if anything.)

1. Re-sign Tay and Dre
(Crossing my fingers we get Tay under $10mm, and Dre under $9mm)

2. Decide what do with Baron
a. Let him play his final year out and let him walk
b. Listen to offers for him
c. Sign him to an extension
(I’d be only open to this idea if he were to accept a 3 yr $45mm or less extension, not likely, but maybe if we were more committed to spending more, he might be inclined to the idea)

3. Get a backup PG to spell Baron/ eventually take over
(Lowry or Crittenton would be ideal)
Several PG’s that can be attained with the trade exception: Earl Watson to name one
Chris Duhon is a FA, Raymond Felton is actively being shopped, Jason Williams is a FA who could probably be had for the minimum or close to it, although he’d be a last resort.

4. Resign Book, Pietrus, and Barnes
a. Bookie- There was no way he was going to stay for minimum wage. I’d say even at $2 or $3mm, Bookie is a relative bargain, although he’d still very much need to improve his on-ball defense.
b. Pietrus- He was key in the later stages of the season, partly due to the fact that there was nothing he nor we could do to get him in another jersey. If he were open to signing a similar 2-3 year deal worth no more than $4.5mm a year, I’d be open to doing it.
c. Barnes- because of his relatively poor season, he’d have to consider a paycut to come back. I doubt there’s any other team out there that would pay close to what we paid him last season.

5.. Get the PF we so desperately need with a polished offensive game. Able to play with his back to the basket, bruise inside, block shots, and complement Beans well, ideally Elton Brand-ish. No deal garnering Brand will probably be initiated without something invovling Baron, but we’ll see.

6. Depending on how much the extension(s) are, there maybe some RFA we could target:

Craig Smith, Ryan Gomes, Josh Childress.

There is actually a glut of young talent under restricted free agency this year, although we’re not in too good of a shape financially. We still have Foyle’s contract on the books for one more year. If he hadn’t been on the books, his salary would’ve come in handy towards someone in RFA.

My ideal (unfinished) depth chart:

PG: Baron Davis, Javaris Crittenton
SG: Monta Ellis, Kelenna Azubuike, Marco Belinelli
SF: Stephen Jackson, Mikael Pietrus, Anthony Randolph
PF: Al Harrington, Brandan Wright
C: Andris Biedrins, Richard Hendrix

Mully needs to find out how to get our hands on Critt. I love his first step and his ability to score and his immense size. I think it’d be definitely easier for him to learn to play the point position rather than Monta. I’d definitely send a 2009 future protected 1st to Memphis for Critt.

If Ron Ron were to opt out, it’d be more than a dream come true if Jack, AL and Diddy somehow coerced him to come play with them in Oakland.

Any and all deals involving Elton Brand should be entertained if we want to win now. We don’t have much ammo, but we should at least try.

I’m on the fence with sending Harrington off. He was severely under-utilized with Nelly being bounced in and out of the lineup on a nightly basis. Varejao and Joe Smith? Ehh, it’s a lateral move at best. If Harrington could play with the poise and confidence he displayed earlier in the season, then we’d be better off. He seemed to put back on the weight he lost as the season progressed.

It’s almost useless talking about it. Tuesday needs to come so we can finally see the trade exception used or not and see who tries to sign Tay and Dre to offer sheets.

by phiLthyphiL on Jun 27, 2008 6:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ehh

Philly has their own fair share of problems to worry about. They just extended QO’s to Louis Williams and Iggy but they have to worry about extending Iggy long-term. They’ve also been mentioned having interests in J-Smoov and Elton Brand, so I don’t think Tay or Dre are on their radar.

Memphis got Mayo so I think they won’t go AS HARD after Tay, however Dre might be a target for them.

by phiLthyphiL on Jun 27, 2008 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another thing is...

a question actually. Anyone know any restrictions on teams signing players to offer sheets?

Theoretically speaking…say Memphis had all the wiggleroom and cap space in the world. If they were ultimately targeting Andris Biedrins, could they offer a max contract to Monta, forcing us to match, and then ultimately signing Andris Biedrins to a similar offer sheet. Knowing that we’ve already matched Monta, putting us in an awkward bind?

IIRC, Kawakami stated that the most that teams could offer our two young guys are in the 5 year 70-75mm range while we could go balls out and offer something like 5-6 years $91.7mm

I just want to know are there restrictions on teams attempting to sign multiple players to offer sheets?

by phiLthyphiL on Jun 27, 2008 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You bring up a good talking point: Chicago. With the addition of Rose and their litany of point guards we might be able to snag up Duhan (I think Hinrich is overrated and would be too costly.) This will depend on who Chicago decides to dump.
Crittenton is a good idea, particularly since Memphis (is that where Mayo ended up?) acquired Mayo and they have expendable options at the guard spot. I’d fear a sign and trade with them if Monta’s name got brought up, hopefully whomever we take on can be obtained through free agency, without having to negotiate any of our players.
I, too, really hope we can keep Kelenna and Pietrus. So long as Nelson plays them at their natural positions (which might help their consistency in output) they might be happy and willing to stay. I think O’Bryant or Perovic need to be dumped or not re-signed. One should be kept to play Mbenga-minutes. Kelenna most certainly deserves a raise and the league at large is aware of that. Pietrus, although incosistent at times, should be kept for roughly the same salary. Barnes is a tough call. I know he’d accept anything the Warriors offered him but his output this past season was hard to watch.
As far as Baron is concerned, if we can get him for 14-15$/year, I would support keeping him on board for three to four more years. He brought a culture of winning (along with Jackson) to Oakland and he should keep it here.
The Elton Brand movement, I feel, will require the team to give up too much (trading away Baron + Al for Brain leaves us with a massive, irreparable hole at the point that free agency can’t quickly fix.) Harrington’s game suits the system for the time being. Once Nelson is gone though, I suspect Harrington would be too.

Overall, I like your proposed depth chart, keeps the good pieces from last season and hopefully the younger pieces of that roster are given more time to shine.

by so ill so d0pe on Jun 27, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

James Jones and Keyon Dooling are guys I think we should target.

Dooling can play the backup pg minutes and some minutes at sg. Jones gives you a reliable 3 point shooter at the swingman position.

by houseofprime on Jun 27, 2008 6:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like the role players you mention.

As it shores up two things we need, a back up pg, and a true shooter.

Although i doubt we dabble with the MLE to sign one or both of these guys. As we have all seen how thrifty Cohan is to spend the money it takes to develop a winner. He and Paul Allen definitely need to talk.

That means we have to look through trades to get better. Our trade chips are the young players, Al, and BD.

The tough thing about trading Al is that he fits our system relatively well. He can defend the 4-5, shoot the 3-ball well and is a great chemistry guy. If we trade him away, whose to say we get one or two guys that fill this need? If we trade Harrington, we have barely any reliable 3pt specialists on the roster (Jack and BD are chuckers, Monta doesn’t settle, Barnes/MP aren’t assured of coming back, Belinelli still unproven).

If we do trade him, i’d like us to get back a decent backup center and a guy who can spread the floor.

Warriors, Stupidest franchise in the league.

by kenntoe on Jun 27, 2008 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got so caught up into the offseason talk

I didn’t even answer your question…..

Shaun LIvingston would be a good fit, it’d just be interesting to see how healed (or not) is he from that nasty injury. Let’s put it this way, if the Clippers didn’t tender the qualifying offer to him (then he probably isn’t anywhere near 100% or worth the $5.8mm)

If he’s anywhere near 75% or better, he’s worth a look. Can’t be worse than other D-Leaguers. But if I had my choice, attaining Crittenton would be one of the better options.

by phiLthyphiL on Jun 27, 2008 6:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

instead of finding a backup PG

I’d rather find a backup shooting guard who can handle and distribute (ie: not a ball hog) and play tough defense. Then we could slide Monta to the 1 to relieve Baron at PG. It would be alot easier to find a backup SG like this rather than finding a big PG to play next to Monta.

by YaHeard on Jun 27, 2008 7:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

slide Monta to the 1 to relieve Baron at PG

The problem is Montay sucks at point guard and he wouldn’t get any rest playing 2 guard when Baron is in and playin point when Baron is out. We need a real back up point and just let Montay do what he does best.

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 27, 2008 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

um

That’s why our 3rd guard would handle the ball and distribute playing next to Monta.

This guy could also play next to Baron as a conventional shooting guard when Monta is resting.

The problem with finding a “real backup point” is that he’s not going to be big enough to guard shooting guards. Our backcourt is going to be two small guys when Baron is resting and that means disaster.

I’d rather pair Monta Ellis with a big ball-handling guard and give up a little on offense than see our two, weak 6’3” dudes get torched by other teams bench guards.

This is why I wanted the Warriors to try to acquire a SG like this in the draft, like CDR. But maybe we already have our answer in Belinelli. He’s shown smooth handles and good court vision and maybe Mullin already has this issue resolved.

by YaHeard on Jun 27, 2008 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good court vision?

Like totally missing out there? Must not have liked what he saw in that “vision”?

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 27, 2008 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Belinelli

in the limited time that I saw him on the court last season, I saw some clever reads on the defense and nifty passing from him. At least better than Pietrus, Azubuike, and Monta anyway. Jackson has the ability to be a good distributor, just lacks the handles and patience.

But hey, you seem to know everything. You just have trouble grasping the concept of a 3-guard rotation, but that’s okay.

by YaHeard on Jun 28, 2008 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

better than Pietrus?

Pietrus is one of our best defenders while Belli-nelly was one of the worst of a generally porous bunch. Pietrus’ offense and defense combined is a net plus over Belly-nellie’s combined usefulness. handles don’t matter much for their position. I’d also pick bukkake over belly for general toughness too. and there’s no way Belly is close to montay in his offense or even in his defense.
The 3 guard rotation is just another way of saying we don’t have good enough players to do it the correct way. Baron plus a real point backup is better than Baron and 2 playing backup at point. If montay can’t defend well enough to allow a real point guard to back up baron then maybe montay is the problem? I don’t recall having this problem with JRich?

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 28, 2008 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you stupid?

he’s talking about court vision, the ability to properly read a defense while having the ball skills to manuever defenders to create the passing angles thus generating the offense. He never said belinelli was a better player, he did say that mb produced flashes in the limited time that would suggest that his court visions a bit more advanced than the players mentioned. Mp has the ball iq of a baboon. Practice some comprehension skills, mongoloid asshole.

by Travis Bickle on Jun 29, 2008 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol

You know the answer to your first question.

by joestar on Jun 29, 2008 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Real Center/Backup PG

No Centers this FAncy.

So PG is a must. Anthony Carter maybe?

by ejdacanay on Jun 27, 2008 8:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This seasons FA has...

a plethora of combo gaurds which IMO favors the Warriors.

Here’s some under the rader FA’s the Duns should target:

Chris Duhon -tourched us at orcale, maybe he can do the same only this time in a Dubs jersey
Flip Murray -very suitable combo gaurd that can spare BD some PT. Doesnt shoot the ball particularly well, but isnt affraid to drive the ball down the middle creating contact
Smush Parker
-when focused, he can be a nice role player who can buy some mintues. With a couple off court instances, i think a new change of scenery will do the trick.

by Spee-D on Jun 27, 2008 9:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

please

not smush. hes terrible. the clippers tried it and found out.

by lincypoo i wuv u on Jun 27, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i might not watch the warriors next season if they settled on smush at the backup pg spot

by so ill so d0pe on Jun 28, 2008 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smush isn’t even good in NBA live, and nearly all PG’s are beasts in that game.

by joestar on Jun 29, 2008 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anthony Carter

is a FA (Denver) and apparently has already been told GS is interested … we’ll see in a couple days perhaps

with Jackson firmly entrenched here, the backup PG “crisis” is really overblown – both Monta and Jackson were starting the offense last year both when Baron was on the bench (rare) and on the court. It was a strategy Nelson used to try to save Baron’s legs for later in the game/season.

We have bigger positions to fill than backup PG. Hell, Boston just won a ring without a starting PG.

by hardcore on Jun 28, 2008 5:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

without a starting pg?

rondo looked fantastic for stretches in that series, and is certainly a quality starting pg. baron was rarely on the bench last year, as you said, and it was a big problem down the stretch. the man didn’t have the legs. you said that the strategy was to have monta and jack run the offense, which they could do a little, but they aren’t point guards and boom was always playing. so, if the way to save bd’s legs was to leave him on the court and not facilitate, then it should be very clear that a backup point is a requirement. that strategy failed miserably.

by cap'n hack on Jun 29, 2008 2:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Phil-effect?

Jackson’s strategy to help off of Rondo had a lot to do with how fantastic he looked – hell he was in the paint before being stopped by the help defense … before the season many in the media said Rondo wasn’t good enough, Boston brought in a creaky-ol cuss to play PG at the deadline (Cassel) and that didn’t pan out, Eddie House had chances to prove he could play major minutes and couldn’t produce, so it was Rondo by default. Phil’s strategy backfired in the finals, Rondo prospered and is better for it now.

I wrote elsewhere that Nelson’s highest motivation may not necessarily be to make the playoffs, but to win as many reg season games as possible to secure his personal legacy (obviously the two are related, but there is a slight difference in how one manages the roster – Baron in particular). He has options available to rest BD if he wants to, more options there than on the rest of the roster (see below).

by hardcore on Jun 29, 2008 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hell, Boston just won a ring without a starting PG.

OK, Problem solved if you can get us Garnett, Pierce, and RayRay ?

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jun 28, 2008 5:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know about that. Rajon Rondo silenced all the critics play during the season, and the playoffs.

by joestar on Jun 29, 2008 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We have bigger positions to fill than backup PG

1. we have no depth up and down the roster – CJ behind Baron, Marco behind Ellis (assuming he’s re-signed) and Jackson, Wright behind Harrington and Andris (also assuming he’s re-signed – not a small question considering his agent). CJ, Marco, & Wright isn’t going to get us to the playoffs – and out of all of them, CJ has SHOWN the most capability to actually play his position in the NBA; and AR is an enigma – at LSU not GS. It’s foolish to count on him at the moment.

2. Who backs up the 4 & 5 is more important than our backup PG.

Ellis and Jackson both handled the PG duties at times. You want to rest Baron then we have CJ, Ellis, and Jax to handle the chore for a few minutes per half and we should. But who is our depth inside? Cro is a FA. Wright? Half the people on this site think he should start ahead of Harrington when he hasn’t proved a thing. The other half want to trade Harrington for a backup PG which would further weaken us at our weakest position.

AR? Just a thought, but all the love for AR right now ignores the fact that Mullin wouldn’t or couldn’t trade #14 with him on the board for a veteran to help us now. The rest of the league saw he had “slipped” to #14 but there were no tempting offers? Or there were, and they were passed on – we’ll never know.

Hendrix? Wow, the amount of love he’s gotten all over the media is beyond compare. Why wasn’t he in the lottery? Now HE is going to be our savior inside?? Let’s not get ahead of ourselves, last year’s #2 Rd pick didn’t make it out of camp.

Kosta may not even be on the roster and isn’t going to get much burn if he is.

The number of suggestions to trade Harrington without adding to our depth inside are laughable and ignore the fact that he’s been a good fit here in a variety of ways. Point to his contract all you want, but look at his production and explain where that will come from when he’s gone. Look at the roster and explain who’s going to play PF when he’s traded for a backup PG, and please don’t say Wright – I’m talking about the majority of minutes BW is on the bench.

3. Our need for better backups at 2-3 is greater than at PG.

KAz is a FA, and far down the line in importance of re-signing. Barnes played himself into afterthought status (remember all the angst a year ago about “losing” him to somebody else?) He and MP had no better offers and last season we saw why.

The love for Marco on this site is simply beyond rational explanation. He’s the most over-hyped, under-performing player on the roster. At least Wright actually showed some sustained ability without the deer-in-the-headlights look while on the floor (same for CJ). Marco, with all his international “professional experience” looked absolutely overwhelmed. At BEST he projects out to be a shooter with a poor shooting percentage. Anyone who thinks his handles are good enough to help at the PG spot was watching a different team than I was last season.

In the long term, assuming Ellis is here, the solution to the PG position may be to acquire a combo SG that handles well. In the old days that would be a Dumars-type guard. Nowadays, a Joe Johnson or Brandon Roy type SG, bigger than Ellis with good ball-handling ability and can defend. Right now, that’s Baron. Those are tough to get. We also can hope Ellis continues to grow into the position – remember how young he and AB are still.

This is all assuming of course, that Mullin is trying to make the playoffs, sooner than later.

by hardcore on Jun 29, 2008 8:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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