Summer League Scout: Blazers/Bayless Envy

by dreamleague on Jul 18, 2008 12:20 AM PDT Comment 42 comments

I wanted to write a game-by-game account of scouting notes from today (Thursday 7/17), but stop the presses. I just got back from Day 7 of the 2008 NBA Summer League in Vegas and, as a Warrior victim of the Baron Davis departure, there is no question we should all be envious of our fellow Western mates, the Portland Trailblazers. Today, I saw one man dominate his offense and display pretty impressive fundamental defensive skills. My friends, drop what you are doing. His name is Jerryd Bayless and *gulp*, he's only 19 years old (he'll be 20 on August 20th).

I'm an avid reader of TrueHoop and on Wednesday, sure enough, Maurice Brooks wrote that halfway through the Summer League, his pick for MVP would be Bayless:

In both of the games he has played, he has been the best player on the court and it hasn't been close. Using his speed and exceptional handle to set up defenders, the combo guard has made a living at the charity stripe...

Well, make that three games now where he's been the best player (by far for the third). I sort of glanced over those accolades on TrueHoop yesterday. After all, remembering the NBA Draft, I didn't really recall the ESPN crew going ga-ga over this guy. Even at #11 overall, there were three other point guards picked ahead of him (Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and DJ Augustin). During warmups, I totally forgot about this guy, instead preparing myself to focus on Kevin Love, Cory Brewer, and maybe even Petteri Koponen (who has been mentioned a few times on Blazers-tilted TrueHoop). For real, by late first quarter, I had to stop zoning in on anybody else except Bayless. He's that fun to watch. Thus, no Love report here, sorry!

Oh boy, do the Warriors have their work cut out for them in this Pacific division Conference. We all knew Portland had young talent, but adding Bayless to that existing stack is basically unfair.

The first thing I noticed about Bayless is that he's a rock. He's ripped up top and has an unfaze-able demeanor, confident and steady -- pretty extraordinary for a teenager. He seems accurately listed at 6'3" 200 lbs.

The second thing I noticed was that he loves contact. If you watch enough (bad) Summer League games, you notice how guys tend to prove their mettle by hitting jumpers and facing up, trying to get open on the perimeter. Take, for example, the Pistons-Mavericks game, which I will detail in a separate post. That game was the epitome of "I don't like contact". Fellas, this is the NBA: No Boys Allowed. You better want the contact at some point, otherwise the most you can be is a filler. If you want to have an impact on the final score, you better absorb collisions, pick yourself up, and go to the free throw line.

Bayless has no problem doing that. Absolutely remarkable for someone that young. Also, I noticed that his feet were kinda big. Might that suggest he has another inch or two to grow? Yikes. Here are some more notes I took pertaining to Bayless. Basically, the kid is NBA-ready and then some...

He has great lateral movement on defense. It's almost textbook. He is a complete player, eons ahead of the typical Summer Leaguer that will make his team's regular season roster.
He even drew a charge on Love.
On a fastbreak, he had between him and the basket the spidery Cory Brewer, with two teammates coming up behind for a potential 3-on-1. It might have been difficult to execute a 3-on-1 in this case because the other 2 teammates were trailing a bit further than ideal, like Bayless was at about the three-point line when his two mates had only crossed halfcourt. Well, you either slow down and do the 3-on-1 or you take it strong a la Monta Ellis with the two trailing in case you miss. Man, Bayless was smooth. Right over an outstretched C-Brew. Nothing C-Brew could've done and it was pretty good defense given the circumstances.
Unlike the forthcoming bomb I will write on Arron Afflalo (and thus denounce what TrueHoop's "guru" David Thorpe has to say), Bayless comes off screens tight. He's definitely open by the time he comes around a screen off-ball.
He executes the high pick-and-roll in a textbook manner, coming off the big man with his shoulder, with no space for the defender to cheat. Someone close to Bayless needs to be given a pat on the back. Lute Olson and the Arizona coaching staff? His high school coach? His dad? Who taught him all this?
He can do a floater with either hand.
He's a natural-born leader. After a Timberwolves run capped by a Koponen (let's give him the nickname "PK") turnover on a penetration in which PK actually got fouled (he didn't complain, though, because it was a risky move to the tin), which then ended in free throws for the Timberwolves on the ensuing fast break, Bayless called the team to huddle and regroup. Again, very remarkable for a 19-year-old.
He can hit midrange jumpshots, but he's kind of got the "Monta" problem. He's so good at getting to the rim, that he doesn't really need that midrange right now, nor does he need the three-pointer. However, he will need to work on the three-pointer. He'll be fine for the break-in years, but as he starts getting into his prime (wow, I don't think I've ever forecasted that far for any Summer League player), he may need to lessen the pounding and make his perimeter game more lethal. Still, I'll bet you tons of veteran NBA players would kill to have what Bayless already has this early.
PK calls him "Ryd".

Finally, remarkable plays seem to follow remarkable players. Here are three more of note...

On one offensive halfcourt sequence, Bayless finds himself alone on the weakside, three-point area, free-throw line extended or a bit lower. I think it was PK who got him the ball off dribble penetration. Now, Bayless has the ball all alone at the three-point line and I'm thinking, he's not shooting that and, well, he doesn't (remember, the trey is not in his repertoire right now). The defense lunges out and he easily bursts pasts the guy, going baseline, but before anybody else on the Timberwolves can get to that side of the floor, Bayless slams it home with a tomahawk that made it seem like his elbow was above the rim. Holy smokes. He's only 6'3".
On yet another attack of the rim, Pops Mensa-Bonsu meets him at the apex of Bayless's throwdown and the ball goes the other way for a Minnesota fastbreak. Someone on the Timberwolves finally got him! Of course, out of all the possible Timberwolves, it could only have been NBA shotblock-proven Pops. As PK dribbles the ball down the next sequence, Bayless and Pops exchange smiles.
Near the end of the half with about 4 seconds remaining, with the Blazers on defense and Bayless helping the strongside on a dribble drive baseline right, the Timberwolves find guard Blake Ahearn alone beyond the arc on the left side, free-throw line extended. However, the pass is short-hopped and forces Ahern to lunge and get it. Ahern does retrieve it but with his momentum fading toward the sideline. With Bayless rapidly closing the gap, Ahern fires up a desperation fall-away 25-footer from the corner -- only to have it blocked by Bayless, then retrieved inbounds by Bayless, complete with a three-quarter-court heave by Bayless! He doesn't miss the 70-footer by much. Who else in Summer League can pull off a play like that? Maybe OJ Mayo?

Whew. Let's return to our regularly scheduled program. Here are some other observations that game...

PK's not a bad ballhandler or penetrator, with his hesitation moves and ability to spin, however, coach Monty Williams did have to remind PK to drive after missing an open jumper early in the game.
There was a big contingent of Portland fans at the game. Granted, the Blazers lost the game, but as I have written about Summer League before, who cares? Sometimes a dominant player can still lose a game because of his teammates' inabilities to fill in the proverbial blanks. Not to mention Summer League team defense is a crap-shoot. Although thankfully neither team employed a zone or otherwise "junk" defense, I will write elsewhere why it's stupid to play anything but man-to-man or fullcourt press in Summer League (shame on you, Dallas).
Portland's 6'11" 275-lb Aleks Maric looks like a huge Ben Stiller. I kid you not.
Someone just walked by with a "Boom Tho" comic-book-inspired-looking Rod Benson t-shirt promoting his blogsite on the back.
Cory Brewer is still skinny as a rail. I swear, his legs can have no larger diameter than yours or mine. Again, I kid you not.
A Minnesota power foward whose last name is Smith (he's not listed in the program guide's roster) lost his shoe while setting a high pick, then on the way back in transition on defense, picked it up and tossed it to the sideline. I haven't figured out why he did that. Luckily, there was a quick stoppage of play and he recovered his shoe, but that got me wondering. Is there a rule in the NBA where you cannot use your shoe for defense? What's the penalty if there is? Can you plead ignorance? Because, quite frankly, he could or should have held onto the shoe while playing defense. Turn your situation into an advantage, Mr. Smith, not a disadvantage!
Pooh Jeter's name is pronounced "jetter", not "jeeter". Guess we know he is not related to Derek.
On a disputed non-goal-tending call, Portland coach Monty Williams got a bit riled up at the refs and Maurice Lucas had to calm him down a little, giving him a "remember the big picture" love tap from two seats over. Let me take the opportunity to say that I'm tired of seeing Summer League coaches bitch and whine about calls. Especially in the 4th quarter with under a minute and no chance of winning the game (hello, Denver Nuggets?). It can only potentially perpetuate and justify frustration at the refs throughout your team, starting with your assistant coaches, then domino-ing down the bench to your players. Move on and focus your energy towards things that are under your control. I realize this is hard to do in meaningful NBA late-season regular season games, but this is inexcusable in Summer League. Summer League is for development, not winning.
Can someone put JR Pinnock on the right Summer League team? Last year, I think he was on the Wizards in which the spotlight was on Nick Young. This year, he's on a deep Blazers squad and hardly getting the playing time he deserves, especially if you consider some of the woeful 2's on other Summer League teams (take the Clippers, Spurs, or Hornets, for example). When Pinnock came in for the Blazers, the 6'5" 207-lb guard had a near-one-handed putback dunk, as well as a dribble-drive penetration that cut up the defense for an and-one. He's got handles which was evidenced by going coast-to-coast. He can stop and pop. He seems more confident this year than last. In fact, I'd take him over Afflalo.

This was easily the most enjoyable game to watch in my two brief annual treks to observe Summer League, but it's so much more fun just talking about Bayless.

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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Another first-hand account...

I was there too. I agree that JB gets to the rim at will, but don’t you think he was a ball hog? Maybe he was tasked with playing that way, I don’t know. But come on - the dude has like 2 assists (literally two assists) playing PG virtually full-time for three games. And those two assists were today - obvious ones with dude’s wide open; I mean, he probably would have been punched by his open teammates if he had missed them in those blown coverage/fast break situations.

Personally, I was more impressed with what little I saw of Batum’s game. We know Bayless can score. Most lottery picks can (or should) if they have the rock in their hands the whole game and are allowed to consistently attack the basket. Batum is a lesser known (as is Koponen) and both showed good fundamentals and instincts. Both looked like solid late first-round draft picks with good potential.

Also, how can you not mention Love? I thought he looked great, and I have no affiliation with UCLA or Minny. He crashes the boards consistently and intelligently, rotates well on defense, and has a good nose for getting his hands on the ball off the offensive glass and generally helping his team.

Different stroke for different folks, but I walked away much more impressed by Love and the impact he’ll probably have immediately for Minny…

by b.radley on Jul 18, 2008 12:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Just to clear something up

Petteri Koponen has been given the lions share of the point guard minutes, since the Blazers have to make a decision to either sign him and fill up their last roster spot, or let him go back to Europe, sign a fat 3 or 4 year, longterm deal with a large buyout.

Bayless can definitely use some improvement in his court awareness, but he is being asked to score at the off-guard position, and it’s not like he has much to pass the ball too outside of Petteri (Batum is more of a defensive wing than a scorer/shooter).

by nikolokolus on Jul 19, 2008 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bayless sounds like Monta Ellis with defense..

by chakdephatte on Jul 18, 2008 1:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

MORE LIKE WADE

he gets to the line A LOT!

by SIZE 15 on Jul 18, 2008 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice...

I’m looking forward to your other posts. Great first-hand accounts, actually better than the other crap I’ve had to work my way through. I’ve been getting really tired of David Thorpe’s half-assed reports of players. That guy just reeks of a lack of intelligence. I’m sick of people saying that Eric Gordon looked impressive when he shot something like 20%. Blegh. Just give it to me real! Don’t succumb to the hype!

by kinetic on Jul 18, 2008 1:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

good points, guys

Well, Bayless might have been a ball hog in the context of that particular game, but I highly doubt that will translate on the regular season team consisting of a backup role to Brandon Roy, among other things. Or even if he was on any other team—just don’t get the sense that he would ball hog given more talented teammates. Of course, chemistry is a big factor and whether or not he can, over 82 games, mesh with Oden and the boys remains to be seen.

Also, Koponen got plenty of looks, so I’m not quite sure I can remember anyone else on the Blazers who would sort of “deserve” to get the ball from Bayless today. Furthermore, Summer League isn’t really an environment where a hash group of 5 guys can get together and say, okay, we’re gonna double him and get the ball out of his hands. Thus, Bayless was always in a one-on-one situation in which probably no one in Summer League can stop. Overall, Bayless can create things, so I say, let him create. That’s what Summer League is for.

I was impressed by Batum, but I didn’t mention him because I just don’t think he’ll have a chance on the Blazers roster. And really, Bayless just dominated the scene, although Batum looked good at times. I just didn’t really have anymore energy to analyze Batum’s game. One thing that concerns me is that Batum is rather skinny. I don’t think his body is NBA-ready.

As far as analyzing a certain player, same thing with Love. I can only focus my attention on so many players and if one player is doing so many things, then it’s even harder. Overall, without analyzing Love’s skills hardly at all, I felt he got the rebounds that Summer League observers have come to expect, but he struggled down low on offense.

Bottom line is, I’m just evaluating talent, mostly without regard to how it may skew more towards his team or not. If Minnesota needs rebounding and Love can provide that, then he will probably do so. But if Love was to play on, say, the Celtics, I didn’t see anything that jumped out at me that would put him 2nd to Garnett in rebounding. So I kind of abandoned studying him for Bayless. If Love made more moves and shots on offense, or gotten “special” rebounds a la Rodman, then I might have paid more attention to him.

As for Bayless sounding like Monta Ellis, it’s sort of hard to compare them in reality because Bayless has a very strong upper body and perhaps is more of a halfcourt player, where as Ellis is 94-feet speed and wiry (plus 3 years of NBA battlescars), whereby straight-to-the-hoop is probably a better description of Monta’s game than Bayless’s penchant towards absorbing contact. But yes, Monta’s individual one-on-one defense is well below that of Bayless. Here’s hoping Monta can apply his accelerated learning curve towards defense as well.

Poor Man's Commish

by dreamleague on Jul 18, 2008 1:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

a few additional thoughts

First, agreed that Batum looks thin (though not as thin as Brewer or Randolph). My gut is that he’s 2 years off, but he looks to have a solid foundation. I think we’re on the same page there.

Second, you hit a key point with Bayless that really stood out for me: he’s strong. Ripped for 19, and as you say he really absorbs contact well. On several drives I was impressed with how he was able to get a shot off after getting whacked or grabbed - he just powered through it. That finishing strength is definitely rare, esp. for his age. One other thing we haven’t mentioned yet: Bayless puts his head down and goes. When he does, he gets that tunnel-vision look where you can tell he’s not seeing anyone else on the floor - just the path to the bucket. I guess that is sorta what reinforced the “ball hog” impression to me—I didn’t get the feeling he sees the floor very well. But I guess time will tell.

All-in-all, your analysis is pretty spot-on in my book. I just got tired seeing him attack the basket every play, hence my sorta knee-jerk reaction.

Last thought re: Love: he had some nice put-backs, including some follow-on dunks which made him look more athletic than I think we’re led to believe (he certainly has good timing and court awareness, which really helps). He might not be the most athletic, but he just seems really, really mature for his age with a great innate sense of the game.

by b.radley on Jul 18, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great post, dreamleague!

Rec’d. Don’t tell Dave at Blazers Edge, but you actually gave a better write-up and analysis of the Blazer players than he did.

I’m a Blazers fan, but I live in the Bay Area and pull for the Warriors also. I’m frustrated because it always seems like the Warriors just can’t consistently grow into a contending team. I’m hopeful that your new young guys will become stars and Monta will grow into the PG role being forced on him, but if there’s one thing about a Nellie team I’ve seen from way back, it’s that he never, ever gets the kind of frontcourt players needed to win championships. Chris Webber was the best one he ever had, if memory serves me, and that ended quickly and badly. It’s almost like a curse. You could say Dirk Nowitzki, but he didn’t get to the finals until Nellie left the Mavericks. I’d love to see the W’s get a Beast in the Block someday soon and then start beating the Lakers like a red-headed stepchild.

This probably isn’t news to anyone, but a big point guard would fit perfectly on the Warriors, someone who can D-up opposing teams’ shooting guards.

As Da Jrich Tribute noted below, the Blazers play in the Northwest division, but I’m hoping with the Sonics gone from Seattle that the league will realign the Blazers back into the Pacific, which I think is a better regional fit for them, cuts their divisional travel schedule significantly, and gives them more chances to Beat El Lay.

Asked his specialty in the kitchen, Oden paused and said, "Hamburger Helper and tuna fish."

by MiledAnimal on Jul 20, 2008 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree with kinetic

Your first-hand accounts are way better than gay-ass David Thorpe’s reports. This should be on ESPN.com. When people on NBA TV before the draft said that Bayless will be better than Monta, i was like WTF, thats BS! But when i saw him play for the first time, i was like this kid is amazing. But then again it’s summer league. And he really is fun to watch.
I think he’ll be another Gilbert Arenas. Thier both really similiar. Both can get to the bucket, draw fouls, good mid-range and 3 point shooters, scorer’s mentality, athletic combo guards, similiar body types, and great work ethics. Really looking forward to your next post. Hopefully it will be as good as this one.

P.S. Portland isn’t in the Pacific Division, they are in the Northwest Division.

i hope we win a championship soon

by Da Jrich tribute on Jul 18, 2008 1:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice scouting report

I’m glad a non-Blazer fan noticed what Bayless is doing. He’s been unstoppable (as a quick guard like him SHOULD be) in Summer League.

A few notes just to fill in some blanks with stuff only a Blazer fan would know:

Bayless was told to shoot shoot shoot whenever he can, and obviously he has been able to even take decent NBA defenders like Quincy Douby at will. Nate McMillan said there are no Brandon Roy’s out there, so Bayless was told to score when he could. HOWEVER, in the next two games, the Blazers are putting Bayless at the actual PG spot instead of switching back and forth with Petteri Koponen, to see him make plays for others more.

Of course, the bigs we got on the Blazers summer league team are pretty bad, and don’t even seem able to set a decent screen and then roll. Aside from The Finnisher, Petteri Koponen, there is literally no one else who can score after a pass from Bayless. I don’t think it’ll be the same when he plays with Roy/Oden/LMA/Fernandez/Outlaw/Webster/Etc. There will be lots of guys willing and ABLE to score off of a pass coming off of a breakdown of the defense by Bayless.

Batum has been very raw, but is already a pretty good defender, which is why the Spurs and Blazers wanted him. The first two games Batum was pretty much awful offensively, but his 7’4” wingspan and quickness really caused some trouble on defense. Corey Brewer did NOTHING in the game last night against Batum, and Batum projects to be a defensive stopper. Thus, the Blazers are reportedly signing him since he has no Euro contract right now, and no buyout. Batum will occupy the 14th roster spot, not play except for blowouts, and just develop slowly. You could get a more experienced/useful player of course, but not one who is okay riding the bench all year.

Most people seem to think that the Blazers have way more players than roster spots, but only 13 roster spots are filled and Batum and Koponen can take the 14th and 15th spot.

Before the summer league started, Batum was thought to be signed (even though he isn’t ready), and Petteri was thought to be more likely to get more experience in a real league (the Finnish league is supposedly extremely weak), but Petteri’s strong play has made things difficult for the Blazers. The Blazers want to keep a roster spot open for flexibility, but if Petteri improved so much from last year to this year in weak Finland, what could he do with NBA coaching? Especially since the Blazers’ coaching staff has become known for being adept at developing young talent…

Even though Petteri has played much better than Batum, Batum’s defense and the lack of a logjam at SF make him the more likely choice to make the team (Batum would only be the 3rd SF if signed, and Petteri would be the SIXTH dude who can play PG on the squad—Roy, Blake, Rudy, Bayless, Sergio all can play PG, and while Sergio had a bad year I don’t see them moving ANY of those guys just to make room for Petteri).

I’d definitely like to see Bayless be a playmaker more, since we know he can score, but it’s hard to fault him because of the lack of good players around him.

Also, his jumpshot—most of us Blazer fans think he somehow developed a kink in his shot, since he was known as a GREAT shooter in his one year at Arizona, even shooting over 40% from the college 3-point land. If he has done one thing disappointingly since practice and summer league started, it’s not shooting as advertised.

Since he works so hard and was always a good to great shooter before, I’m confident his shot will come back.

I love the Monta Ellis’ comparisons; I’ve seen it said that Bayless is a “thinking man’s Monta Ellis”. Monta probably will always be ahead of Bayless offensively (Monta is just such a good scorer, and I can’t expect Bayless to be THAT good; also I don’t think there will be enough shots to be a Monta level scorer), but Bayless is more of a PG/ballhandler and a much better defender—at least, he projects to be better at both of those things.

With Brandon Roy as the main playmaker, the Blazers don’t necessarily need a true PG. What they need is someone who can help Roy bring the ball up, break a press, help make plays and create shots, hit an open jumper, and most importantly guard the opposing PG on defense. Hopefully, Bayless is that guy.

In addition to a Monta Ellis comparison, I’ve also seen some say Bayless reminds them of Tony Parker… offensive minded, great at penetrating and finishing, not a real “true” PG, one-man-fast breaker.

If I was to disagree with anything, it’s that I think Bayless is more of an open court player than a halfcourt player right now, since he can really fly. Of course, it’s way early to know either way and I can’t confidently say exactly what Bayless will become.

I like what I see though, that’s for sure. He was a steal for Jarrett Jack and Brandon Rush and Josh McRoberts, plus the move opened up a precious roster spot.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 18, 2008 4:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Heh...

The Finnisher. I like it.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jul 18, 2008 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't take credit for it

Other people have said it before I did over at Blazers Edge. Other nicknames are PetKo, PetKop, K-9, uhhhhh, etcetera.

Batum is BatMan, or an exaggerated pronounciation of his Frenchie name Buh-TOOOOOOOOOOOM. All the ladies wanna marry him, also.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 18, 2008 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regarding Monta...

People say so many things. When you boil it down, would you rather have Baron Davis running the point, or somebody else? There isn’t even a debate unless you have Steve Nash, CP3, or DWill. So, IMO, it’s impossible to say what Monta can and cannot do with regards to running the point. We’ll see.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jul 18, 2008 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Without Baron

I gotta admit, even as a guy who just enjoys the Dubs from afar, I’m nervous. I could be wrong, but Nelly-Ball really seems to rely on, NEED, can only exist with a creative decisive playmaker at the PG spot. Is Monta that guy? I really don’t know…

I haven’t seen that sort of player in Monta in the past, but he’s very young and should be allowed to grow into the PG role since he has proven he’s a marquee player already, and there ain’t no other alternatives.

Aside from CJ Watson, Monta is it as far as PGs go, right?

I also worry that forcing Monta to be a PG won’t enable him to do what he does best (score) and limit his effectiveness. He’ll be doubled like crazy to help ensure he can’t penetrate so easily, forcing him to have to give the ball up instead of being able to give it up after he’s created something, and with no other unguardable super quick playmaker to help set Monta up, it might become too easy to limit Monta’s game unless he can make teams pay for doubling him by finding the wide open Stephen Jackson or Future Superstar Marco “Rub my” Bellinelli.

That’s a question I got, actually: how has Monta handled double teams before? Is he able to get around them, does he make a quick decision and swing the ball to an open man? How often did he play without Baron, and did Monta create for others in those situations?

I really want it to work for the Warriors.

Hey, can Stephen Jackson play PG, like how Scottie Pippen played PG for the 2000 Blazers? He’ll call the same play half of the time (his patented 5 feet behind the three point line completely guarded with 20 seconds left in the shot clock play), but he’s a good and willing passer, ain’t he?

The dude (Randolph, right?) you guys drafted in the lottery looks further along than I expected, and not as skinny as Brandon Wright is, so that’s nice. He seems to handle the ball well for a still-raw big man, and I hope Nelly finds it in his heart to play him and Wright some decent minutes.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 18, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Monta and double-teams, that’s a real question. Teams started doubling him the second half of last year, and it really impacted his game; I think this was in March, after he had that amazing run of games in February. He looked shocked that he was attracting so much attention for a few games and clammed up. He seemed to settle in a bit toward the end, and did some splits of the defenders and penetrations—he has the speed for that, fortunately. But bottom line is that the W’s are going to need some other scoring threats to keep the defenders honest. Maggette should help.

The one positive is that Monta started to look a lot more comfortable with the ball in his hand toward the end of the year, with BD on the bench. At the beginning of the season I would have said no-way can he be a PG, but by the end he looked to have potential… He has good chemistry with Beans on the drive and dish (and Beans has great hands, which is critical), and his vision seemed to get better, if that’s possible. We’ll see.

One thing I think everyone in The Bay will say about Monta: he keeps surprising us. The “thinking man’s Monta” comment is funny, because that’s always been my concern with him - that he’s more instinct and intuition than intelligence (and I mean that in a nice way). I mean, when he came here he was basically a kid. I credit BD with taking him under his wing and helping him grow. I’ve been really impressed with the growth of his game, and his apparent inner strength and maturity. Cool, collected, and focused. I mean, 2 years ago he was an amazing penetrator with incredible body control - I would argue one of the best finishers in the game at 20—but I thought he hit his ceiling. Then last year he showed up with that absolutely wicked midrange jump shot. I’m crossing my fingers and waiting to see what he comes with this year. A three-point shot? Better handles? Defense? I’m cautiously optimistic that the sky’s the limit. I just hope that losing Baron will be a catalyst for growth, not a stunting loss. Again, time will tell: the dude is only 22!

Last thought: I know it’s early, but I think Randolph is legit! Let’s see what he looks like tonight… Based on what I’ve seen, I think he will get minutes this year (as long as he’s playing 3 and maybe even 2 occasionally).

by b.radley on Jul 18, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Thanks Mort, good breakdown. I have to say, the prospect of Bayless + Roy in the backcourt in 2 years is pretty scary.

Any chance you guys would trade Petteri? I like the way he looks, and we could use a PG. :)

by b.radley on Jul 18, 2008 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade for Petteri?

Right now, Petteri will likely be signed to the roster as the 15th man (Nicolas Batum will be the 14th). So, after that happens, we’ll have these guys who can play the PG spot either alongside Roy or backing him up: Roy, Rudy Fernandez, Steve Blake, Jerryd Bayless, Sergio Rodriguez, and then Petteri.

That means Petteri will be the SIXTH PG-esque dude on the 15 man team, which is insane. He’ll get playing time in the D-League and be coached by the development coaches, and Sergio will get the shaft since he can’t D-League it and isn’t better than the 4 in front of him.

So, Sergio is a more likely bet, but I think both are available for the right price. Sergio’s run n’ gun style would fit really well with Nelly-ball, and if he could ever learn to shoot or what to do on defense he’ll be a keeper. He has amazing court vision, but is a God-awful defender and has been an awful shooter.

Petteri has improved so much since last summer, and it was in the extremely weak Finnish league. I think the Blazers wanna see what he can do under NBA tutelage, playing against good NBA players in practice and stuff…

SOMEONE is available though, you can count on that!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 20, 2008 5:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait...

Did we just have an educated, smart, respectful exchange of information on this post board? Thanks to the Blazers guy for helping us out and everyone for giving good information on the Summer League. I know it is impossible to take THAT MUCH concrete information from these leagues, but it is always good to get a glimpse of the future of the NBA. Thanks to dreamleague and Mortimer for brightening the tone on this post, lets hope others posting under other threads can read the way this conversation goes down and take some notes.

by pinkycheal on Jul 18, 2008 6:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bayless SUCKS

He can’t even spell his name right. Buike is so much better, and Belinelli is gonna be awesome.

But I don’t care cuz I’m not a Warriors fan anymore because BD is gone!!! WAAAAAHHHHHHH

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jul 18, 2008 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

you’d think people would learn that if there are a string of posts going on with good insights, that they would just continue the trend. bitching only gets others to rile up the bitch even more.

by nuttinbutnet on Jul 18, 2008 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

your right

we were doing so well…

by pinkycheal on Jul 18, 2008 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

this thread worked so well,

cuz it started with real analysis of actual basketball, rather than half-baked trade rumors. We gotta limit those somehow. Or make a rule along the lines of, “ok, I know you’re itching to start your own thread about the most brilliant trading scheme ever, you want to show the gsom world what an effective gm you would be, but take a moment to reconsider. Is it actually that great of an idea? Run it by your fellow dubz fanatic, and if he doesn’t bust out laughing, then you can post it”.

by kinetic on Jul 18, 2008 11:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Great analysis +1

I wrote up on the game on Bedge.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/17/573967/summer-league-game-3-game#7467636

I agree with you about Love. I watched his game and really nothing about him made me think he’s got the game to back up his stats. Thanks for such a informative post.

I’m looking forward to watching Randolph in Golden State, he looks like a quicker Taysaun Prince.

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO

by blzrfan on Jul 18, 2008 2:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

like i posted on earlier

this was the guy I desperately wanted during the draft. It’s a crying shame, it really is.

by dhp318 on Jul 18, 2008 4:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

this was the guy I desperately wanted during the draft?

Isn’t he basically just another Montay? We’ve got the NBA proven version so why would we want the untested generic ?

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol stalkin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 19, 2008 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno if he'll be as good offensively as Monta

But two Montas, and one can play defense and is sorta kinda supposed to be a PG, wouldn’t be too shabby, and you would still have a valuable talented player to make a move with.

I think Randolph will be good, so I ain’t saying you made a mistake (or even were in a position to make a mistake), but why wouldn’t someone want two Montas if one thinks Bayless can become that level of goodness?

If you’re replacing the PROVEN Monta with the untested one, then you wouldn’t think that was a good idea. But just to add? If he’s good, why not?

Mortimer?

by Mortimer on Jul 19, 2008 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

but why wouldn’t someone want two Montas?

Cause Montay is a natural 2 so instead of two 2’s we’d be better off with a better 1,or even a stronger 4, or 5 player instead.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol stalkin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 21, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My theoritical argument assumes

That one of the Montas plays defense AND is a serviceable 1, while the other Monta is a better scorer.

I just don’t think it’s crazy to want a player similar to your best player who doesn’t necessarily play the same position. If the twin of Monta is available, and it’s either him or a big who might be okay, you take the twin of Monta because he’s the BPA and will either be able to play alongside Monta or be used in a trade.

Drafting for need in the lottery is how mistakes are made. We Blazer fans know all about that, of course.

I’m not saying Randolph was the wrong choice, and he looks to be BPA at #14. I’m just saying in our theoritical scenario, drafting a player who plays sorta-like Monta but possesses (hopefully) PG skills and can play defense isn’t a bad option at all.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 21, 2008 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

in our theoritical scenario, drafting a player who plays sorta-like Monta but possesses (hopefully) PG skills and can play defense isn’t a bad option at all.

Well yeah , if he’s BETTER than Montay then we’d take him and trade Montay for what we need! But if he’s the same skill level we need a point of a tough power forward more.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol stalkin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 21, 2008 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

wait let me get this straight...

his name is pronounced “poo jetter?” honestly i would just pronounce it jeter… at least that doesnt have any connotations to diarrhea

by llamalimbo1 on Jul 19, 2008 2:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

FYI vs the suns 7/19

J.Bayless 33:19(min) 14-26(fg) 2-3(3pt) 6-6(ft) 0(off) 3(def) 3(tot) 1(assist) 2(foul) 3(steals) 1(to) 0(block) 36(points)

Bayless4Ever

by Sabonis4Ever on Jul 19, 2008 10:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh this guy will be a happy edition to the SB Nation

thanks for capping an oustanding thread with three bits of nonsense.

"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West

by Honka Playboy on Jul 19, 2008 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My God, now Bayless is better than Monte? Are you guys freakin nuts.

Bayless is an undersized two and by his lack of assists he i snot a psser either. So while he appears to be Monte Ellis all over again. No One is as quick as Monte. Monte does his magic against NBA starters. Bayless against guys who will pump gas. If Monte played against this level of talent he would acg. 40per. Bayless is overrated but the regular season will prive that out.

by smearthebeard on Jul 21, 2008 5:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bayless ain't the scorer Monta is

But just like we can’t take the scoring in summer league seriously, you can’t take the assists seriously either. He had, literally, no one to pass to and still averaged as many assists as DJ Augustin did, the heralded pass-first quick PG who went ahead of him.

Assists in summer league are hard to come by and no one gets as many assists as they do during a NBA game, where players can hit shots or finish inside. Bayless can pass, had some decent ones, but while he didn’t show he was a pure PG he did show a willingness to TRY to get others involved.

But after they couldn’t score, Bayless took over and tried to score himself, and it worked.

However, you’re right, it’s just summer league, it would mean more if Bayless sucked than if he played as well as he did.

The way he might be better than Monta is in defense and running the PG, but likely not scoring.

I got a sorta unrelated question though—why do so many people spell Monta’s name wrong here? I’ve seen a million different variations of how to spell his name on GSOM, and it seems odd to me the best and most popular player on the team gets his first name misspelled so frequently on a Warriors fan board.

I ain’t no grammar Nazi, just thought it was strange.

Bayless had 4 assists a game in college. Same thing in summer league: assists are harder to come by when playing with less talented players. I don’t think Bayless is a pure PG or anything like that, but I’ll wait and see if he is a good passer/playmaker once he is playing with actually talented players like Oden, LMA, Roy, Rudy, Trout, Webster, Frye, etc. Having someone who can dunk at will or shoot an open jumper does wonders for your assist count.

Also, keep in mind the praise for Bayless takes into account Brandon Roy doing most of the playmaking, so Roy is kinda the PG on offense and Bayless guards the enemy PG on defense. If Bayless sucks as a playmaker and IS similar to Monta Ellis in playing style (mainly a scorer), as long as he can play defense against PGs it works really well alongside Roy.

In theory, of course.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 21, 2008 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They don't spell Monta correctly because they're not real fans

Heh… I don’t know. There are plenty of people here who spell his name correctly, it’s spelled correctly on the NBA/ESPN/FOXSPORTS/etc. Either they’re lazy, they don’t care, or they’re doing it to be a deushe.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Jul 22, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mort...good post

Now tell me after you sai dall of that how ould recat if the Warrios traded Monta straight up for Bayless? ........Thought so,,,,

by smearthebeard on Jul 21, 2008 6:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Hmm, wasn't arguing Bayless was better

I said I doubt very much that Bayless will be as good of a scorer as Monta.

He looks like he’ll be a better defender than Monta though, which is more important than scoring for the Blazers right now.

Flukey assist totals in 1 game means nothing, just like flukey scoring outputs. If someone AVERAGES good assist totals over time it will mean more, but even if they don’t it doesn’t mean they are bad—you gotta have people to pass to. It all depends on the context.

I don’t doubt that DJ Augustin is a good passer or playmaker, he didn’t have much to work with on a summer league roster. Outside of Bayless and Petteri and Batum, the Blazers’ summer league team was pretty awful. Similar to DJ, Bayless had no one to really pass to so it’s way premature to pass judgement on his PG abilities.

He might be a decent PG, he might suck and only be a scorer. Only time will tell.

I doubt he’ll be as good of a scorer as Monta, but since Monta Ellis is a really bad defender I would rather have the potential of Bayless right now. One of the Blazer’s biggest problems last season was guarding quick PGs; Blake is a good defender but just flat out not athletic enough, and Jack had the same problem. We need a good PG defender to help keep quick PGs out of the lane so LMA and Oden don’t get into foul trouble.

From what I’ve seen, Monta is a really bad defender. Great scorer, need to see more playmaking if he’s gonna be a PG, but an abysmal defender. That doesn’t fit the Blazers’ needs, so even if Monta has better numbers than Bayless for his career, I’ll take the stronger defender.

Right now, anyways.

If CJ Watson averaged 5 assists a game, that’s awesome. He had some targets to pass to and he could put them in a situation to score, and I am happy for CJ. Not sure what you’re trying to argue, but if you’re saying more assists = more better player, Brandon Roy averaged something around 3 assists (probably less) in summer league, but he’s a very good playmaker.

Steve Nash coulda’ been the PG for the Blazers summer league team, and with the horrible bigs we had setting screens and receiving passes, he wouldn’t have gotten a lot of assists.

Not saying Bayless is Nash at all, just underlining the point that any PG needs good people to pass to.

If your main point is only to say Bayless is overrated, well, you’re right if people expect him to average 30ppg. I don’t think anyone is saying that, and the Monta Ellis comparisons are just an example. However, Bayless had a summer league that was heads and shoulders better than any other lottery pick and people were excited by what he did. You can’t blame them for talkin’ the kid up.

Randolph had some really good games too, so I’m not making this a competition, really.

You just can’t go by the numbers to determine what a player can do in the NBA.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jul 21, 2008 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mort then the fact that

BNelli had 8 assists in a summer league game is ungodly? Just using your logic that it is hard to get asssists. and CJ has been a real stud avg. 5/game. I like your logic. It makes my players look even better.

by smearthebeard on Jul 21, 2008 6:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs