Artest to the Rockets

by mikeyfl1p on Jul 29, 2008 5:48 PM PDT

It looks like Ron Artest is going to the Rockets.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53803/20080729/kings_to_acquire_ron_artest/

I guess T-Mac has a chance to get out of the 1st round now. Depends if they stay healthy though This does not look good for the Warriors. Another Western conference powerhouse.

I'm still excited for the upcoming season though. Still looking forward in seeing how the new look Warriors will play together. Let's go Warriors!

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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so DONTE GREENE

is going to play across the bay… If Greene turns out to be hecka better than randolph… ugggghhh!!.....

by mont8ellis on Jul 29, 2008 6:07 PM PDT 0 recs

considering a lot of mock drafts had him coming here

by mont8ellis on Jul 29, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up 0 recs

No on Greene

Not to be a smart ass but usually “across the bay” means across SF and Oakland (Giants and A’s, 49ers and Raiders). Anyways, I’d much rather have Randolph than Greene. Saw him in summer league: limited offensive moves and not as much upside as Randolph for a player the same age.

by Captain Jack on Jul 29, 2008 6:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

oh... haha. didnt know that much about the guy just his 40 point game..haha

good lookin out, now i feel much better

by mont8ellis on Jul 29, 2008 6:16 PM PDT up 0 recs

Very good shooter

That’s not the same as being able to score in many ways, as Randolph is.

by pree on Jul 29, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

+1

Thank you Pree

by Captain Jack on Jul 29, 2008 6:35 PM PDT up 0 recs

T-Mac, Yao and RonRon...Ouch

Seems like the Rockets didn’t give up much for Artest. Nice move by them to bring in that defensive for that they needed. Big 3 will be deadly if they stay healthy like you said. I still smell the Warriors looking for a deal…

by Captain Jack on Jul 29, 2008 6:08 PM PDT 0 recs

Plus Houston will have two of the best defensive teammates in the League, Battier and Artest.

Along with 7’6’’ Yao as the last line of defense. I’m sure Al and SJax/Maggette will have loads of fun playing against the Rockets this season, haha.

by The Daydreamer on Jul 29, 2008 10:20 PM PDT up 0 recs

looks like houston will be a bigger threat.

skip
tmac
artest
battier/hayes
yao

i agree it seems like tmac got a chance to get out of the first round.

by GSwarrior on Jul 29, 2008 6:08 PM PDT 0 recs

i think the 4 position

is more likely to be scola/landry (provided they keep landry)

by the evil monkey on Jul 29, 2008 6:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

oh yeah

completly forgot about scola. i think they can put battier if they want to but yeah your right, scola would be the better fit. and it probably doesnt really matter their team still looks good.

by GSwarrior on Jul 29, 2008 6:47 PM PDT up 0 recs

i stand corrected, according to Hollinger

the Rockets plan on sporting Ron Ron at the 4 position.

starting 5 of skip, tmac, battier, artest, yao

w/ head, scola, barry being key reserves.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=artestdeal-080730

no mention of Landry. though i bet Hayes hopes he’s not around. And for now, either Franchise or Brooks will likely get PT seeing as how they are likely to back up the point.

by the evil monkey on Jul 30, 2008 12:11 AM PDT up 0 recs

Yes but they have a proven glass jaw!

by smearthebeard on Jul 29, 2008 6:47 PM PDT up 0 recs

Legit contenders now ..

Lakers, Jazz, San Antonio, Hornets, and Rockets are going to be duking it out this season. We thought last season was tough? It’s going to take 50 wins to make the playoffs!!

by pree on Jul 29, 2008 6:11 PM PDT 0 recs

The top 5 are strong but the bottom 3 will are weaker overall. 45 wins gets you in this year.

by smearthebeard on Jul 29, 2008 6:48 PM PDT up 0 recs

True

It might actually be mathematically impossible to have that many 50-win teams haha.

by pree on Jul 29, 2008 6:54 PM PDT up 0 recs

math

if eastern conf has 8 50-loss teams its possible.

by farid on Jul 29, 2008 7:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

The Top 1 is strong

If Bynum, Gasol, Odom, and Kobe stay healthy, I don’t think anyone in the West is touching the Lakers.

Sign ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 29, 2008 6:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

i guess...

i agree because kobe is just so good that he pushes the lakers above the rest of the teams. but if you look at what the rockets now have
yao ~ gasol
scola + landry ~ bynum
artest + battier > odom
tmac ~< kobe (aka tmac isn’t as good, but he is one of the few players you can put in the same conversation)

those two teams look to be pretty close. i think if tmac and yao can stay healthy, i would put the rockets at a close #2 in the west

by gogoldenbears on Jul 30, 2008 8:13 AM PDT up 0 recs

Hmm

I’m always dubious about those player v. player breakdowns, since a big edge at any position, or even a marginal edge from star to superstar (Drexler v. Jordan, e.g.) can outweigh all the other stuff. But as long as we’re playing that game, I would disagree on a couple of fronts:

1. Bynum >>>> Scola or Landry. Assuming 100% health (I haven’t heard the latest on that front) Bynum is already in the Top 10-15 most dominant players in the NBA; and, given his tender age, has the potential to be #1. Scola and Landry are just solid role players.

2. Odom > Battier or Artest. Again, if healthy. It’s hard to measure the importance of Battier’s defense, but if you take defense out of the equation, he’s barely an average NBA player. Artest is better, obviously, but I worry that he’s become a bit of his chucker in recent years. Odom’s not quite as quick as either of them (not quick enough to guard Paul Pierce, e.g.) but he’s smoother and more versatile offensively, a much, much better rebounder, and long and strong enough to guard NBA PFs.

I think the last NBA front line that was as big, long and dominant across the board as Odom/Bynum/Gasol was the ‘86 Celtics with Bird/McHale/Parish/Walton. That team absolutely rolled the opposition. Assuming health, I expect the Lakers to do the same.

Sign ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Jul 30, 2008 9:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

In addition the east is acutally getting a little stronger so the

overall win totals int he West will be down this year. 45 and you’re in.

by smearthebeard on Jul 29, 2008 6:50 PM PDT 0 recs

NoOOO

still dont see them as contenders tho. espcially considering that tmac and yao combined to miss 15-20 games a season in the last 3 years. if healthy tho. no question.

by dong4ce on Jul 29, 2008 6:52 PM PDT 0 recs

dammit

Damn you Sacramento Kings. All it took was a big expiring contract huh, that’s it? And you couldn’t have sent him East? Dammit, there’s one playoff spot we won’t be taking next year.

We better hope for a Dallas collapse.

by YaHeard on Jul 29, 2008 8:01 PM PDT 0 recs

or

a phoenix collapse, or a denver collapse, or portland to not put it all together. any of those would be great.

by cap'n hack on Jul 29, 2008 8:25 PM PDT up 0 recs

can somebody clear this up for me?

so when will artest literally be in a rocket uniform? because i saw that donte greene couldn’t get traded yet..

by mont8ellis on Jul 29, 2008 8:20 PM PDT 0 recs

I'd be happy to draw Artest in a Houston uniform for you

by Tony.psd on Jul 29, 2008 8:21 PM PDT up 0 recs

ahhaa

good lookin out man.. but nah.. i think ill pass. HEY MAN, WHENS RANDOLPH GONNA BE DRAWN DUDE?

by mont8ellis on Jul 29, 2008 8:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

LOL... As soon as I finish drawing for the other 4 jobs I work for :-P

by Tony.psd on Jul 29, 2008 8:52 PM PDT up 0 recs

it's hard to tell how much better this makes them

artest is just sort of battier+more talent+all sorts of crazy. there are obvious tweeks in their respective games (such as artest is more comfortable in the post, whereas battier’s more of a perimeter guy), but they do a lot of the same things. this trade didn’t address the rockets’ main problems. they still don’t have any depth at the c and pf positions when yao inevitably gets hurt and yao and tmac are their only reliable scoring options. they’ll play even better d, but there are issues with that team that i think prevent them from being a serious contender out west. the lakers, hornets, and jazz are still better, and the spurs may or may not be as well, depending on how that team shapes up at the start of the year. i think this probably gives them a 4-6 seed, depending on how that team gels together, which isn’t that much different than before the deal. i still see an early exit from the playoffs for that team.

by cap'n hack on Jul 29, 2008 8:24 PM PDT 0 recs

if anything

artest will be able to light up a flame on tmac’s ass. artest gives them that killer instinct that the whole rocket roster completely lack. look at that roster: Yao Rafer Tmac Battier Scola all meek as lambs. this move at least gets them to the Western Conference Finals.

Barring injury

Lakers
Rockets
Hornets
San Antonio
Jazz
Suns
Blazers
Mavericks
Clippers
Nuggets

Kings
Wolves
Warriors
Oklahoma
Grizzlies

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Jul 29, 2008 8:42 PM PDT 0 recs

the wolves

will not be better than the warriors this year. that team is still kind of a mess. no d in the post whatsoever. love actually makes them worse in that regard. they still have no point guard, and mark madsen, brian cardinal and calvin booth all play for them.

the kings just got worse this year too with the trade that is the point of this post. the warriors will be better than them as well. the clippers are in the same boat, and the nuggets too. is it possible that things break in such a way that the order you suggest happens? of course, but there would need to be tons of surprises to have it turn out that way. i have lots of issues with essentially the entire list.

by cap'n hack on Jul 29, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, we’re waaay above the Kings at this point, and obviously the Wolves… pretty sure we’re above the Nuggets, too.

In a way I envy VC’s irrational pessimism… he’s gonna be pleasantly surprised by this team.

by onlxn on Jul 29, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

lol

winks*

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Jul 29, 2008 9:25 PM PDT up 0 recs

not sure if this works in terms of seeding--but in terms of record

again barring injury

lakers, rockets, jazz, hornets, san antonio, blazers, suns, mavericks / warriors, nuggets, clippers, okc, kings, grizzlies, t-wolves

was gonna put the warriors in the playoffs, but dont want to be too optimistic without having this completely new team play together…

by gogoldenbears on Jul 30, 2008 8:26 AM PDT up 0 recs

Vonteego are you on something or did you bang your haed too hard?

by smearthebeard on Jul 30, 2008 12:26 PM PDT up 0 recs

Wolves

Jefferson – 08-09 Superstar

Clippers
BD/Camby – BD/Biedrins now with a pick and pop option. Ricky Davis/Mobley/Gordon SG spot solid. Thornton takes over Maggette

Nuggets
Can’t bet against AI and Melo (at least the regular season)

Kings
Just got rid of their biggest headache. Play free with nothing to lose.

Warriors
experimenting with a PG, coupled with a lameduck coach, volatile leader, loss of identity = disaster

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Jul 29, 2008 9:25 PM PDT 0 recs

quick refute for pretty much all of that

wolves:
jefferson- a great player on a team full of bad players that cannot play ANY defense, particularly in the post, where jefferson couldn’t do it last year, and now has to play alongside another power forward who doesn’t play superb d. that team is still a trainwreck, within 2 years jefferson will want out and telfair will shoot someone on the team plane.

clippers:
are you sure you wanted to use ricky davis and solid in the same sentence? i’ll let you take it back if you want. they lost their best player in brand, while they did pick up davis. getting camby is nice, but that leaves them with 2 centers and no competitent power forwards. maybe they can talk to the wolves about a trade. add that to the lack of scoring options not named baron (unless thorton REALLY steps up) and you’ve got a team with no real hopes for the playoffs.

nuggets:
can’t bet on a team that traded away the only guy who played defense and a team that hates each other the way the nuggets do.

kings:
just got rid of their biggest headache and one of only two legit players on the team. now kevin martin is free to be lead a team to the promise land. all by himself.

warriors:
just added a lot of depth and versatility, but did lose their best player. lots of question marks, but the way the teams from 6 on down in the west got worse (not counting portland, and possibly okc), if they are even close to as good as they were last year, they are in the playoffs. that said, i’m betting on a 9 or 10 spot, with possibilities to be better than that.

by cap'n hack on Jul 29, 2008 9:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

that was less quick than i anticipated…

by cap'n hack on Jul 29, 2008 9:44 PM PDT up 0 recs

clips

SG spot = 3 headed monster Davis/Mobley/Gordon. Notice how I ddnt specifically mention Davis by himself.

nuggets + just by having 2 legit superstars gives them a fighting chance. Cant say the same about us.

Kings = won 30+ games essentially without ronron. addition by subtraction. 2nd year under Theus, 2nd year of Martin being the Man.

wolves/warriors = basically the same boat, im giving the wolves a hair just for being me. :)

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Jul 29, 2008 9:51 PM PDT up 0 recs

keep it coming

i see no reason to stop this debate so…

the “3 headed monster” you mentioned is one terrible basketball player (ricky), one aging vet who never had great written all over him (mobley) and one rookie who didn’t exactly set the world on fire in college (gordon, though i know the circumstances sucked in indiana, but will they be much better in la?). not terrifying stuff.

the 2 legit superstars in denver essentially just alternate possessions where karl runs an iso or something of that nature for them, so on the offensive end, they play like 1 superstar, and on the defensive end, they play like a total embarassment.

the kings had loads of issues last year and have the same issues this year really. bibby and artest didn’t play that much for them last year and neither one will play for them at all this year. their big offseason move was to resign beno udrih. ouch, sorry kevin, but it looks like if martin doesn’t average 60 a game, that team won’t do anything.

explain how the warriors and wolves are in the same boat. i really am baffled by that one. for all the talk about firing mullin, give the warriors kevin mchale and see how people like it. that team is assembled terribly and i don’t see much hope for them to be even respectable this year, or any time in the near future for that matter. they could lose 65 games, no problem. it’s a very different situation.

by cap'n hack on Jul 29, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up 0 recs

r davis

not saying hes a superstar by any strech of imagination. the guy averaged 20 pts one season and double digits just last season. Mobley yes hes 76 yrs old, but i do remember him seem to shoot lights out last season specifically against the dubs. Gordon for whatever its worth was drafted higher than Randolph. With Baron as a backcourt mate wouldnt you think this would elevate their play to somewhat Montas level?

The clips at the very least would finish 10 games better than the Ws.

Denver yes the 2 superstars alternate shooting the ball but most of the time it works. just the value of having a dude/s as a legitimate threat to take over a game at anytime should be a cause for concern.

As ive said the Kings managed to win a respectable amount of games without Ronron and Bibby (thanks for reminding me). Those issues youve mentioned were 80 percent because of those two players who are now gone. the remaining 10 could be attributed to Brad miller and the remaining 10 would be the same issues facing every team in the NBA. Martin ddnt average 60 last year and they did OK. We would be lucky if we can match their win total from last year. Only 5 out of 15 of our players are familiar of the Nellie system (perovic wright and bellinelli dont count) and the rest need to learn the intricacies of Nelle ball.The kings are practically coming in with the same players and the same system advantage sactown.

Jefferson and Mike Miller would be a great inside outside combo. Randy Foye should be healthy and that should be some ray of hope. post defense? as warrior fans we shouldnt even mention defense. Mullin=Mchale. a toss up there. Both GMs has no vision towards the future whatsoever, both teams are as far away to a championship as possible.

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Jul 29, 2008 11:38 PM PDT up 0 recs

ok

no, sg guard situation on the clips is not likely to elevate to anywhere near monta’s level. did you forget the guy’s shooting percentage last year? but i’ll give you one point there, ricky sure did average 20ppg one year. that year was 2002/3. not really all that relevant now. he averaged 13.8 last year on the blossoming d-league allstar team playing in miami heat uniforms. he might not have had a point guard on that team, but he didn’t have anyone taking shots from him either. gordon’s draft position is not a valid enough point to really say that he will be better than randolph. he will probably post better numbers because he will play more, but that’s it. i just don’t love his game. he’s a 6’3” jump shooter, who will be guarded by nba 2s. that’s a problem. i don’t see that adding up to ten more wins than the dubs.

denver does have two guys who can take control of the game on the offensive end and zero players to deter even a mediocre scorer from doing the same on the other end.

so, if not having artest and bibby was 80% of the kings’ problems last year, not having them this year removes that 80%? gotta say, i don’t follow the logic. the kings should post a similar record and finish in the 11th spot or so, just like last year.

i loved the remark about familiarity with nellie’s system. didn’t cj come in last year and say something along the lines of ‘nelson doesn’t say anything during timeouts’ and ‘the warriors are the only team in the nba that doesn’t call plays’. i guess i’m not too worried about guys not figuring it out.

jefferson and miller is almost a formidable inside outside duo. that is where the good things about next years wolves team starts and ends. maybe kevin love plays pretty well too, but he doesn’t fit a need for a team that has about 29 different needs. and your remark comparing mullin to mchale is foolish. mullin has made some legitimately good moves since taking over, mchale’s best two moves were to trade away kevin garnett and to get a player drafted two spots below where he drafted in exchange for spare parts and cap relief for a team that has no idea how to spend cap space. thumbs up kevin! to say that mullin has no vision toward the future is ridiculous too. if he didn’t have any concern about the future he would have given baron a 5 year deal worth whatever it was the clips gave him (don’t remember the figure, just remember it being too much) and watched the team flounder with an aging point in 3 years. instead we’ve got a youth movement with talent, whereas the wolves are stuck with al jefferson and untalented young guys. big difference.

by cap'n hack on Jul 29, 2008 11:56 PM PDT up 0 recs

gordon

is a 6’3 shooting guard, paired with Baron. Sounds like the last team Baron played for.

with denver I maintain my stance. Im not picking them to win the championship, but I dont see us being better than them. Most of the time NBA basketball is won in the last 5 minutes of the game and they have 2 who can simply take over when the going gets rough. We dont have anyone who would scare the living bejeezus out of anyone. They do.

anyway, both Mullin and Mchale hasnt won jack as executives and I dont think either team is closer to winning a championship.

In closing, 40 wins to me is the same as having 12 wins. I am just sick and goddamn tired of including this team to my nightly prayers when they don’t help themselves. Tired of cheering for mediocrity. For my own sanity, since last season, I took this position in supporting this team because of all the false hopes this franchise has been selling year in and year out. If they do pull out a MIRACLE, no mistake about it, I will be deliriously happy. And if not, it would spare me the disgust and pain most people would feel.

If i had my way, i wouldve done everything to keep BD and in turn even renouncing both Monta and Biedrins (gulp) to go really hard after Brand and Igoudala. This wouldve made us an instant contender this and the year after. But of course hindsight is 20 20.

Maggette’s signing to me is nothing but a desperate move by Mullin to at least stop the mass exodus of season ticket holders. He hopes that having Maggette would make us at least halfway decent. After baron left, we shouldve just sucked it up signed the 2 kids and surrounded them with d leaguers instead of signing Turiaf and Maggette.

Basically, all successful teams has a NAME player. We dont have one that’s why I don’t like our chances. Good night/morning and thanks for the discussion.

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Jul 30, 2008 3:02 AM PDT up 0 recs

a few little things

gordon’s a 6’3” jump shooter who will struggle to get that shot off, monta’s a 6’3” slasher who relies on quickness and is generally much more talented.

i hear you to an extent about the 40 wins vs 12 wins thing. the record isn’t that important if you’re not even making the playoffs, it’s more about potential for growth. the warriors have a lot of guys who could be very good in a couple years. this season we will learn a lot about that possibility. look for the warriors to win about 40 games and we’ll get to see glimpses of a future that looks pretty good. look for the wolves to win 12 (ok, maybe a few more than that) and have only al jefferson and maybe kevin love to be excited about.

i stand by that not paying boom that kind of cash over 5 years was the right move, but understand people who say we should have kept him.

if the warriors miss the playoffs (and i think that’s still the most likely possibility), are you in for the “let’s do whatever it takes to get ricky rubio movement?” he could be that name player you were talking about, and is my favorite guy in this upcoming draft, for now.

of course, monta could be that name player, too. we need him to be.

by cap'n hack on Jul 30, 2008 11:59 AM PDT up 0 recs

hahahaha

you chose the absolute best case scenarios of the wolves, clippers, nuggets and kings and the worst case scenario for the warriors.

i was gonna basically echo cap’n hack so i’ll do this a different way instead… this is off the top of my head and is my opinion but i’m pretty confident in my argument.

clippers:
PG: adv. clippers, SG: adv. warriors, SF: adv. warriors, PF: adv. warriors, C: adv. clippers (close, but warriors are better team)
nuggets:
PG: adv. nuggets (if iverson is PG), SG: adv. warriors, SF: adv. nuggets, PF: equal, C: adv. warriors (agree that nuggets will be good in regular season and will be close with the warriors because of AI and melo, but warriors are better overall because of new depth)
kings:
PG: adv. warriors, SG: equal, SF: adv. warriors, PF: adv. warriors, C: equal (warriors are better and have much better depth)
wolves:
PG: adv. warriors, SG: adv. warriors, SF: adv. warriors, PF: adv. warriors, C: equal (assuming jefferson is a C) (warriors are WAY better and more NBA proven with MUCH better depth—not even close)

basically, the clippers and nuggets might be better than the warriors, but no chance that the kings and wolves will be. you could make the same arguments you made with the wolves and kings with the warriors.

by gogoldenbears on Jul 30, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up 0 recs

Dang, Why couldn't we get Ronron?

what did Houston have that we dint? Just desire?
Looks like it will take a bit of luck for the young dubs to get into the show?
Lakers
Hornets
Jazz
Rockets
San Antonio
Blazers
Nuggets
?Suns/Mavericks/Warriors/Clippers?
Kings
Wolves
Oklahoma
Grizzlies

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Jul 29, 2008 9:29 PM PDT 0 recs

GMs being proactive

Camby
Artest
Maggette
Jackson
Monta

we couldve had this…

warriors dont fish they hunt!

by VonteegoCummings on Jul 29, 2008 9:45 PM PDT up 0 recs

makes me sad.

but you know what, I don’t think we could’ve gotten Camby AND Artest AND Maggette. We could’ve had two out of three with the space we had under the cap, but not all three of them. Could’ve gotten Camby or Artest by trading picks and “cap space” away like LAC did. If we had a big expiring contract, like Bobby Jackson’s, we could’ve used that too.

by YaHeard on Jul 30, 2008 1:04 AM PDT up 0 recs

Camby

and Camby’s contract woulda killed us in the long run. Think Ben Wallace.

by YaHeard on Jul 30, 2008 1:06 AM PDT up 0 recs

would u rather have

Mags or Artest?

Sorry for the random question, just wondering what your opinion is.

i hope we win a championship soon

by Da Jrich tribute on Jul 29, 2008 11:38 PM PDT 0 recs

Artest!

Who doesnt want to see the duo of jack and ron?

Stern prolly wouldnt let that happen tho.

by dong4ce on Jul 30, 2008 2:21 AM PDT up 0 recs

hard to say

maggette is much more efficient offensively. artest is a black hole at times (maggette can be too cause he hogs the ball at times, but at least he is efficient in scoring with it, where as artest throws up bricks)
artest is a much better defender.
i guess artest because defense is so valued in a league where there is little of it. however, lets wait and see how maggette does with the team…

by gogoldenbears on Jul 30, 2008 8:46 AM PDT up 0 recs