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Monta Ellis Superstar?

This is kind of a response to postings I've seen that are skeptical of Ellis' PG skills, suggestions that we trade him for a power forward or "true" point guard, complaints about his defense.

I've watched a lot of Warrior games the last couple of years.  I'm no expert but you don't really have to be to see that Monta Ellis is a rare talent, the kind that doesn't come around that often.

The game comes easily to him, it's not supposed to be this easy to come right out of high school and score at will against the best players in the world.  We haven't really had a chance to see a talent like this develop before.  We've seen some very good players - Antawn, J-Rich, Spree, Dunleavy- and been pretty tough on them (justifiably so in Dunleavy's case).  The closest thing to seeing a talent like Monta's here was Webber for one year and Arenas for two.

To put what Monta has done in perspective look at his numbers against all the other players who have come straight from high school.  With the exception of Lebron, who was freakishly physically ready, Monta has been as good as any.  If you compare Monta's first three years with Kobe the numbers are almost identical.  He's been  better than Mcgrady and equivalent to KG although they play different positions.   

Star-divide

Obviously what all those guys have in common is that they became superstars in the league.

I'm not saying he will be the next Kobe (well maybe I am sort of) but he is going to be one of the players to watch this year.  He will be the new Iverson, Wade, Carter, Kobe- the guy that you makes you buy tickets if you're a fan of an opposing team bc you want to  see what he'll do.  He's going to have some crazy games this year.  He'll be on highlight reels all the time.  He's gonna be the guy that all the kids want to be like.  I want to see him do all this in a warrior uniform.  When he's dazzling the world with 40 point games I'm just going to be laughing at all those who wanted to trade him for Marion, or whoever (like that would really help the team get closer to championship level).  Of course they will still probably be complaining about his defense.

Speaking of defense- not many players come in out of high school and quickly become top notch defenders.  Kobe (to use that comparison again) was hellof skinny and didn't really guard anyone early in his career.  There were probably those that wanted the Lakers to keep Eddie Jones for his D and trade Kobe for a power forward.  Chris Paul is known to not play much D, although he gets lots of steals, Lebron is not known for D either.  Give Monta a chance.

Some people say Monta does not have the size to guard the shooting guard position so He'll never be able to match the Kobes of the world.  Monta's not that small.  He's 6'3" with long arms and crazy hops.  He'll fill out.  I bet if you put him next to Raja Bell who plays next to Nash (who can't guard anyone) and is Known as a Kobe stopper, you would see that they are almost exactly the same size.

Monta as Point Guard- People talk about true point guards like its some mystical ability that you either have or don't.  I think that's kind of true with ordinary NBA talent but when you have someone with Monta's ability he will be fine because teams will have to adjust their defense to stop him and he has shown that he can create for his teammates.  You can see that he has the ability to make the other players better.  It's almost beside the point (no pun) what position he plays, Nellie is going to figure out the best lineup to put  around him, as a combo guard he can play either (sort of like Wade when the Heat were good, he would sometimes play with a pg like Jason Williams and sometimes with a shooter like Damon Jones or Kapono).  People look at how Chris Paul and Deron Williams have turned their teams around and everyone thinks you need a pure point guard so stupid franchises use high draft picks for "pure" point guards but it predictably fails bc tguys like Paul and Williams  don't come around often (examples- Mike Conley #4, Acie Law #11; DJ Augistin #7- when Bayliss is clearly the greater talent).  Monta's talent is on par with Williams and Paul although he probably will never average 10 assists he will do things that neither of those guys could dream of in mid-air.  It's true that they have accomplished more so far but consider that they were high lottery picks for bad teams who turned the keys over to them right away.  Monta was a second round pick out of high school playing behind a superstar point in Baron and a very good 2 in J-rich.  Of course he wasnt' going to get a chance to develop as quickly.  I think this year he will show that he is in the same class as they are.  Sorry this is long and probably tedious to read but fun to write.  I've been sort of simmering over what I see as lack of appreciation for Ellis but I've been too busy studying for the Bar to respond.  I think this team is going to be better than anyone I've read so far gives them credit for.

 

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

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i pray

you are right… for our team’s sake.

by saintdee on Aug 1, 2008 2:08 PM PDT   0 recs

Damn,

he said Robert Pack!!! There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while.

by Hayward's Finest on Aug 7, 2008 9:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You sound like a tardy Clip's fan...

If you are, go back to your tribe and suck down some slop while you watch your team get shat on by virtually every team in the league this year, scum….Robert Pack…How dare you? Monta will struggle this season, but that is all. Baron will lead the league in technical fouls, blame his teammates for being losers, blame management for not having the competence to keep Brand, fold half way through the season with a busted wheel, and then you’ll try your best to trade him while the other team laughs and spits in your eye. So now you got Dizzle crying about being dissed by the management, the rest of the team don’t want him, Paparrazi’s got his face all over the Sports page, and it reads, “BARON UP, CLIP’S DOWN!” And there’s Paul Bunyan, drunk off his ass sittin between Brad and Angelina(sticking a knife into some helpless animal) his hand on the ass of some drive-thru hollywood broad while she straddles him on the DIRECTOR chair. Good riddance. I bet your dumb ass would give Baron 50 mil…Yes, I’ll take Monta the point guard, thank you. The Warriors’ record will be nothing to boast about after this season, but I know after that 82nd go, I won’t be the one who slugs upstairs, retiring under the covers to sob like a btch. It’ll be all the Clippers fans, drowning their sorrows while watching Baron’s features on the projector, sipping scotch out a teacup, pinky-up reminiscing about hatching that “secret plan” that never happened. UG! my kingdom for a horse.. Boo hoo hoooooooooooooooo….

If your a Warriors fan….well, then I guess I just hope you’re wrong.

by Travis Bickle on Aug 10, 2008 2:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, I’ll take Monta the point guard, thank you. The Warriors’ record will be nothing to boast about after this season,

That’s damnation by faint praise isn’t it? What’s the point of all these Montay lovers? Make him point even if he’s not? What’s the attraction? I see a small shooting guard that’s decent for that position but very weak in point guard skills so why try to make him make us worse? Is this the Golden state Warriors or the mississippi state Montays? Who cares if he’s the next Iverson or Kobe? what can he do for us now is the important question.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 10, 2008 10:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But it's not the important question...

What he can do for us now is irrelevant compared to the remaining portion of his career as a Warrior. The only determining factor this year is how he responds to playing a different position, and if he’s able to make the adjustments. The reasons I think Monta will be able to play point guard are simple. He can blow by virtually any player in the league, he’s smart enough to make the pass after he’s lost his opponent and drawn in the D, I’ve never seen a game where he wasn’t able to finish a play to the basket against any defense, and he’s got the mid range jumpshot to keep the help completely honest. Monta pushing the ball up the court on the break is a very good thing. he’s obviously going to beat all the front court players to the other side, and no one man can stop Monta at the rim…he will either be fouled or finish over/around/under his man. Point being, somebody will be open when Monta’s going to the rim, and if they’re not, then he will score himself. It’s that simple.

Yeah, I get it. He’s not a natural distributor, he’s a scorer, the position is too complex and so on…

by JakeGittes on Aug 10, 2008 3:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Monta will be fine. Look at Gilbert Arenas, he wasn’t given a chance to bloom here, but once he was with the wizards, he blossomed into one of the most clutch shooters in the league today. Give Monta another year or two, and he’ll get even quicker or more explosive at the rim.

WARRIORS BASKETBALL!!! Patiently waiting for a title...I may be waiting for a long time...

by JustSomeName on Aug 1, 2008 2:20 PM PDT   0 recs

What exactly do you mean by “wasn’t given a chance?” Arenas left after two years. In his second year, he was averaging 18ppg and 6assists in 35 minutes. That’s a pretty good “bloom”, good enough that the Wiz tossed a big enough chunk of change at him that the Warriors were unable to match it (not unwilling—unABLE).

by jae on Aug 1, 2008 4:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

gilbert

was given more than a chance. he started as their point for a year. And he was a stud. i mean yeah he didn’t get any PT for a while but he didn’t deserve it yet. he was a 2nd round pick and it wasn’t until he worked his ass off “to show the doubters wrong” when he deserved PT, got it, shined, and walked away and signed a big deal with the wizards because of some stupid rule.

Now wait a minute, why r u replying to this post saying “monta will be fine… etc.” ???
The poster is saying monta is a superstar

by Agent Zero on Aug 4, 2008 1:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I've been too busy studying for the Bar to respond. I think this team is going to be better than anyone I've read so far gives them credit for.

You better study the chapter on closing arguments again :>)

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 1, 2008 2:28 PM PDT   0 recs

I still wouldn't put Monta in CP3 & DWill's class

They’re each deadly scorers AND top notch distributors. While they may not put pressure on defenses with their driving ability, they are still very consistent with their jumpers and long range game. Monta will become a Agent 0 type of PG, but is that really a good thing? Zero hasn’t done much of anything except score a lot in some regular season games. I hope for (and somewhat expect) the best from Monta, but he’s gonna have to find a way to deal with being the main focus of defenses this year.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 1, 2008 2:47 PM PDT   0 recs

Yes, that would be a good thing. Besides, I see him as more of an Iverson, and that would be a better thing.

by belilaugh on Aug 1, 2008 9:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I hope for (and somewhat expect) the best from Monta, but he’s gonna have to find a way to deal with being the main focus of defenses this year.

I’m hoping he can get his game and rep up to the point where we can trade him for someone good but without his size/position defensive problems? I’d rather be able to play flexible positons without the worry of compensating for Montay’s size.If we could get a top point guard or a power forward in trade that would be one less thing to worry about.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 1, 2008 3:02 PM PDT   0 recs

What if he...

Learns to play defense (young players typically have difficulty with this and learn after a few years in the league)
Runs the team well (it’s HIS team now, not Baron’s)
Fills out (really, have you seen any tall 19YOs walking around the street who aren’t beanpoles? Really?)

You say “I hope he gets his game up”, but you want to ditch him for the same difficulties he’s having now. Isn’t part of getting better learning to, you know, succeed at things you aren’t doing well now?

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 1, 2008 3:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Can you a actually spew your crap with a straight face?

If you really want to try Cartman explains how on South Park.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 1, 2008 9:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Can you a actually spew your crap with a straight face?

what is your fool ass talking about? Just curious?

by gsfool on Aug 2, 2008 12:07 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ali luvs monta

Awww, Im sure Montay loves you too Champ.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 1, 2008 9:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Who’s your idea of a top point guard? Raymond Felton? No thanks.

by belilaugh on Aug 1, 2008 9:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Who’s your idea of a top point guard?

Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson. Also not one of the best but one of my favs for entertainment was Jason Williams in his prime. Boom was plenty good enough . Felton would be better than anything we have now and are likely to be able to get in the near future.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 1, 2008 9:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Felton would be better than anything we have now and are likely to be able to get in the near future.

No GM in the league would take felton over Monta. If Felton is such a good PG why did they waste their lottery pick on DJ Aug?

by gsfool on Aug 2, 2008 1:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i would trade monta

for a skilled big man. they are to hard to come by. i would also trade him for a top pg. maybe you dont remember how bad we were when had pg’s like bimbo, mookie and vonteego running the team. when bd got here we were a playoff team.

by Rach on Aug 1, 2008 3:11 PM PDT   0 recs

Hey

dont do this to Mookie and Vonteego!! They were cool!!!

F**K REFS!!!

by faetati on Aug 1, 2008 3:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe you're misinterpreting
skilled big man

and

top pg.

If he means Superman and CP3, then yeah, I’d do it. If he means Kaman and Chauncy, then no thanks.

Either way, these “skilled big men” and “top pgs” first have to become available. Then we can talk about whether trading Monta (or anyone else for that matter) would be worth it.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 1, 2008 3:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

dhoward and cp3 are even more rare than montas!!!

but if they want to trade one of those guys for monta then i’ll do that trade at the drop of a hat!! but thats not realistic so im fine with monta!!!

by hyphy cowboy on Aug 1, 2008 3:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

agree

Monta may not be CP3 but he ain’t chopped liver either

by GeeEssDub on Aug 1, 2008 3:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If we can get Bynum, Howard, Oden, Bosh, Garnett, Marion, or Stoudemire why not? I rather have a good inside presence then a combo guard. If Monta proves he can play PG with good passing abilities we should keep him. But if we are offered any of those (which is impossible) then do it.

Hasheem "The Beat" Thabeet. A Warrior in 09.

by ejdacanay on Aug 1, 2008 7:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

some things to take in account

Monta Ellis was rarely guarded by the opposing teams’ best perimeter defenders. Those guys guarded and focused primarily on stopping Baron Davis. Now we’ll get to see how Monta does when the defensive gameplan is catered to stop him.

by YaHeard on Aug 1, 2008 3:38 PM PDT   0 recs

then

pass to mags

by saintdee on Aug 1, 2008 4:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The best defender

This is a fair point but I think due to the warriors offense teams are often scrambling back in transition so much of the time that this to a degree lessens this point. On another note ive watched ellis play in many games and he gets a ton I repeat a ton of his points in transition and they are almost all layups or jumpers. I also think ellis is as good if not better at getting his shot off than davis and takes far better shots than davis does, I recall him having a month in which he shot nearly 70%. The first time I ever saw ellis play(In person)(his rookie year near mid season) I was astounded by his talent. in about 15 minutes he registered 8pts 5rebs 2blks and 2stls. and I said then that this guy will be the next AI and I think he will live up to that prediction this season. My fearless fantasy forcast is 25ppg 7ast 6reb and 2stls a game.

by The City on Aug 8, 2008 11:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Towards the end of last season...

it wasn’t baron they had to focus on, it was Monta…and he was doing it while Baron wasn’t on the floor at times. They even got to double and occasionally triple team him and those ended up being some of his better Assist games.

I agree Baron added a different look to the team when the opposing gaurds had to D him up, but Magette is JUST as adept and getting to the rim as Baron was, it’ll be the same type of defensive match up for most squads this year. Minus Barons ill-timed 3 point launches w/ 20 Sec on the shot clock.

by esco41510 on Aug 1, 2008 4:22 PM PDT   0 recs

i like

how you mention maggette. with him and monta in the starting lineup they could combine and do the colussus/wolverine dunk.

by 99tilinfiniti on Aug 5, 2008 4:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Monta will be fine with dropping dimes

In fact I think that Baron kind of ignored Beans towards the end of the year (too busy jacking up off balance 3 balls to find the open man) and it was Monta who was really running the P-n-R well with Andris.

by GeeEssDub on Aug 1, 2008 4:47 PM PDT   0 recs

+1

Monta to Biedrins will be a big time pick and roll combo. I think it will boost Dre’s scoring avg and Monta’s assist avg big time. Monta’s so deadly because he can break anyone off the dribble or hit the mid range J. He’s also getting the B Diddy step back jumper too. Seriously can you imagine how many times Monta and Dre did it in practice running on the second team since their rookie years. We saw some of it last year and I’m sure its coming on full force this year.

by dxc13 on Aug 6, 2008 12:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What I want t know-Help me out

I do not know of the resources or have the time to look this up so if somebody could help me out.
We talk about all of the great players who put up similar numbers to Montas in their first three years. What I want to know is if there has ever been a player who put up those kinda of numbers (similar to Montas) in there first three years at a young age and not become a star or even a very good player in the league.(Granted he is already a very good player)
Please my friends, make me happy.

Playoffs!!??

by PAWarrior on Aug 1, 2008 4:52 PM PDT   0 recs

if there has ever been a player who put up those kinda of numbers (similar to Montas) in there first three years at a young age and not become a star or even a very good player in the league.(

I guess the jury’s still out on Durant. Usually it’s the opposite. They Put up crappy numbers early and 3 or 4 years later start to be productive a la Jermaine O’Neal, Travis Outlaw, Al Harrington. But it’s the really great ones that excell early, pretty much just the guys I mentioned + Amare. Chris Paul I think came out after his freshman year and pretty much smoked the league right away.

by gsfool on Aug 1, 2008 8:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Durant...

Played 1 year in the league, not 3. He still has two years to get to Monta’s experience level.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 4, 2008 8:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Just a couple I can think of right now...

Kenny Anderson and Chris Jackson

John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

by triplesix on Aug 4, 2008 3:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Kenny Anderson and Chris Jackson

Good call in that neither reached superstar status although Anderson had some pretty good all-star type years. Remember though that both had 2 years of college, were 21 when they reached the league, and didn’t really start making an impact until their second years in the league. Monta was much more of a prodigy averaging 16.5 pts his second year at age 20 when those guys were still playing college.

That said however it’s true that both those players were highly skilled and showed promise early and had pretty ordinary NBA careers, at least by the standards I am setting for Monta. Furthermore Jackson had kind of an eerily similar skill set to Monta- super quick, prolific(HS and college) scorer, great jumping ability, undersized at the 2- I think Monta is more explosive as a finisher and is just more of a physical specimen than Jackson-Raouf – which I think will serve him well in the league. Jackson was really slight and oddly enough also had a bit of a weight problem at times as I remember.

I think Jackson is a really interesting example to bring up bc he represents what everyone fears when they talk about tweener or combo guards- these guys light it up in college and can’t play point in the pros while their size is a handicap at the two position. I think Jackson was tried at the point and it failed. In the early 90s everyone was looking for 2s cut out of the Jordan cloth (6’6” strong athletic guys). This is still an ideal but in the interrim we’ve seen that players like Arenas, Wade and Iverson can excell. I think today’s game actually puts more of a premium on quickness than the early 90s when plodding teams like Knicks, CAvs, Jazz were very succesful.

by gsfool on Aug 5, 2008 11:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf (aka Chris Jackson)

“I think Jackson is a really interesting example to bring up bc he represents what everyone fears when they talk about tweener or combo guards- these guys light it up in college and can’t play point in the pros while their size is a handicap at the two position. I think Jackson was tried at the point and it failed.”

Another flaw of M.A.R. that Monta doesn’t have is that “Abdul-Rauf overcame the challenge of Tourette syndrome to have an athletic career.” In general I agree with gsfool that Abdul-Rauf wasn’t given a shot at the 2-guard. Though I’d offer the reminder of this that Denver did have Robert Pack another combo guard that allow them play the two off of each other. Furthermore, I think the fears Abdul-Rauf represent are the not the combo guard ones, but the ones we see from a player like Ron Artest or Vernon Maxwell (the original play charge into stands at a fan) who don’t have mental control of themselves and sometimes just freak out on the court

A Sonics fan without a team.. Though I'm auditioning GS Warriors this season.

by mcwalter44 on Aug 5, 2008 2:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

When...

did Abdul-Rauf freak out on the court? My memory doesn’t serve.

John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

by triplesix on Aug 6, 2008 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

On a side note...

I realized that both had played in college and didn’t make the jump right out of HS. However, up until 10 years ago you would be hard-pressed to find an NBA’er who had w/the exception of Moses Malone. Therefore, for arguments sake, expanding the pool to 1-2 years of college will yield higher results – or at least some.

John 8:44 -Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

by triplesix on Aug 6, 2008 4:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i thought that Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf

issues were when he became a muslim and his political views changed and his observing of ramadan. they can only eat after the sun has set for a month. he got weak from fasting and he was very out spoken in his views against the united states. protesting the national anthem and other things. that guy could flat out score

by Rach on Aug 7, 2008 11:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

good knowledge

several prominent NBA players have been Muslims – Kareem, Dream, and Abdul-Rauf as well as current players Shareef Abdur Rahim and Nazr Mohammed (and I may be leaving someone out) who are observant of fasting during Ramadaan. That alone is managable.

But several MLB and NBA players quietly protest US policies by not being present for the national anthem – Abdul-Rauf took a lot of blowback because he was one of the first and didn’t hide it

his LSU days were legendary

by hardcore on Aug 7, 2008 10:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

dj went #9

deron went through his growing pains with sloan..i wouldnt say he gotthe keys right away. and bScott is no picknick either from what player have said. i though i was high on monta but this guys might just be a tad delusional. i pray hes right tho..

by IndubitableBayAreaGM on Aug 1, 2008 4:57 PM PDT   0 recs

deron went through his growing pains with sloan

Not a big Jazz fan so you are probably right about that. My Point was more that Paul and Williams were playing starters minutes right away and weren’t behind a star guard in his prime who was the franchise player (like Baron) in their first two years so they developed faster than Monta. good correction on DJ. Still think he went too high. Probably guillty on the delusional part get back to me next year we’ll see who was right. I will own up if wrong. (I thought Larry Hughes was a potential superstar too)

by gsfool on Aug 2, 2008 12:50 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

MVP

Monta will be league MVP someday. He is going to go down as one of the greatest warriors of all time.

by obiandandy on Aug 1, 2008 5:14 PM PDT   0 recs

Top notch Pg

For those doubters that Monta can play the point, heres something you should listen to. He’s game style is very similar to that of Tony Parker, who only averages around 6 assists and has a similar assist/turnover ratio. And even if Monta is not an ideal point guard, it should hurt our offense that much because Monta creates his own offense, Mags creates his own offense, and jackson doesn’t care if he’s open or not, he just shoots. Our top 3 scorers can score with minimal offensive support. Monta for MVP!

According to the comminsioner of the nfl, 104 people retired last year. 7 due to age, and the rest because of Patrick Willis

by montasmob69 on Aug 1, 2008 5:36 PM PDT   0 recs

totally agree

Born a Warrior, Die a Warrior... That's the way life should be!

by GSWarriors4life on Aug 3, 2008 2:18 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

explain yourself

you mean he would have won championships? Other than that, what does parker have on monta?

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 4, 2008 7:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

opportunity

Duncan’s presence on the floor commanded the attention of the other defenders more than all the rest of the Monta’s warrior teammates combined, and that doesn’t include Ginobli. Parker was able to take advantage of openings and opportunities Monta never has had because of it and yes, won championships.

Imo Parker has much better handles than Monta and has proven he IS a championship caliber PG over again, while Monta MIGHT become that PG. We all hope so.

by hardcore on Aug 5, 2008 8:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So...

The basis of your opinion is that Parker has better handles and thus is better than Monta. If you’re including Duncan, then is Bill Wennington is better than Patrick Ewing because Jordan’s presence on the floor commanded the attention of the other defenders? Sure, it’s a stretch, but I’m using it to prove a point.

We’re evaluating Parker vs. Monta. Not SAS vs. GSW. Parker certainly has better handles and has been the starting PG on multiple championship teams. But Monta has never had the chance, as he’s always had BD on his team. Parker’s the more trustworthy PG. But, if you were choosing teams for one pickup game, would you really pick Parker over Monta?

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 5, 2008 8:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

DFB, our differences begin in how we attempt our analysis – First, I do not think we can distill differences without addressing some of the pertinent contexts of the teams around the players, among other variables (nor whether I’d choose one or the other first in a pickup game). So, yes, we HAVE to include SAS & GSW rosters’ impact on these players’ opportunities. That’s also partly why I do not fall back to merely citing stats when I share my observations.
Second, if you want to elaborate on how BD made Monta better be my guest – imo Baron’s presence actually may have hindered his development as much as he helped it in the past two years.
Third, I don’t usually play hypothetical games but – imagine if Mullin had “read” the BD situation accurately and traded him for a very good (but not Duncanesqe) PF rather than losing him for cap space which he couldn’t use to land that PF – would that have helped Monta’s game more than having BD on the floor?

To answer your question – if I had to choose between Parker and Monta in a pickup game I’d choose Parker because I’m the SG and need a PG to feed me the rock!

by hardcore on Aug 5, 2008 8:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

From what I took away...

The crux of your argument is that the Spurs are better than the Warriors. No duh. But I bet that if you replace Tony Parker with Monta Ellis, the Spurs are a better team.

So who’s better Al Horford or Kendrick Perkins? What about Jose Calderon or Rajon Rondo? What about LBJ or Robert Horry?

Every player in the combinations above who hasn’t won a championship would be considered better, but they haven’t played with Tim Duncan, KG, Hakeem, Shaq, or Kobe. The worse players have, which is why they’ve had the “opportunity” to use their limited skills while the stars were getting double teamed to win championships.

Your Tony Parker/Monta comparison cites almost no evidence about the actual players in question (just that Parker has better handles). The main point of your argument is that one plays with Tim Duncan and the other does not. So is Parker better than CP3? Is he better than DWill?

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 5, 2008 9:52 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

the crux of my argument is that Parker has PROVEN multiple times he can run the team from the PG position at a championship level while Monta has proven he can SCORE from the SG position for a team in the same conference struggling to get to the playoffs – what’s the argument against that? in short, some people here (posted above) are assuming Monta is going to be as good or better a PG than Parker -fine, all I’m saying is that remains to be seen, and that he’d be more likely to succeed at a high level as a PG if he had someone, like a Duncan, to take some of the pressure and defensive attention off of him.

If you offered SAS a straight up trade of Parker for Ellis as their starting PG, you think they’d take that offer? I don’t think it’s as sure a bet as you suggest, not that it matters any. Speaking of evidence, where’s yours?

by hardcore on Aug 5, 2008 1:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Great...

So Tony Parker is a better PG. I get it. Now explain where this PG comparison came from:

monta>parker

or how

if he had Duncan ya he could be

is in any way relevant to the PG discussion.

I fully understand how having Duncan on your team makes you a more productive PG, but another player does not make you an inherently better PG (unless you’re suggesting that Duncan is somehow teaching Parker how to be a PG).

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 6, 2008 6:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

DFP, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed two days in a row or do you just have an axe to grind?
I didn’t make the first claim – it’s in combination with the comment posted immediately above it that I commented about, and I explained that several times – which you now get.
Now you want to quibble between productive & better? fine, you’re right, you win, productive is better …

by hardcore on Aug 6, 2008 8:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you want to quibble between productive & better? fine, you’re right, you win, productive is better …

The distinction is between quantity and quality.Productive might be worse but more numerous or a player might be a better player but is more team oriented so his superior play never gets the hype the ball hogs of the world get?...

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Aug 6, 2008 9:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ugh...

I’m stopping after this one…

monta>parker

is from the original poster. You were the one who decided to make it about PG skills without clarifying it. Reading comprehension.

by Dubs fan in Boston on Aug 6, 2008 5:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Reading comprehension

Try again: “I didn’t make the first claim – it’s in combination with the comment posted immediately above it that I commented about, and I explained that several times – which you now get.” Look for yourself.

by hardcore on Aug 6, 2008 5:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs