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The GSoM Political Thread, Part II

Kanji_love_tiny by Sleepy Freud on

OK, the now legendary "Marbury diary" was getting impossible to navigate. 505 posts: that has to be a record for this site.

Feel free to use this thread to discuss anything sociopolitical. The other diary touched on, among other stuff:

• McCain/Palin

• Obama/Biden

• The "War" in Iraq, and war in general

• The death penalty

• The "liberal media"

• Big government

• Jeremiah Wright

• Adolf Hitler (see Godwin's law)

• Stephon Marbury

I was also thinking it could be fun to have a running "game thread" on the remaining debates, including Thursday's upcoming VP debate.

Anyway, if you want to keep the discussion going, rec this diary! It would be cool this time to hear from some of other people than the usual suspects. I respect young Sam's persistence, but by now I think he's made his positions on many of the issues pretty clear. Ditto for me, Skeptic, JAE, Droppin_knowledge, et al.

And as always: I know we all get heated with this stuff (well, I do anyway) but try to play nice.

Poll
Who are you supporting in the upcoming election?
Barack Obama and Joe Biden
244 votes
John McCain and Sarah Palin
55 votes
Other (ideally, please specify)
26 votes

325 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!

9 recs | Comment 541 comments

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This is California

Highly Democratic.

Hasheem "The Beat" Thabeet. A Warrior in 09.

by ejdacanay on Sep 28, 2008 8:41 AM PDT   0 recs

+1

Don't mess with ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 28, 2008 10:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

and

yet still we voted in a horrible republican governor with no experience, and screwed up the budget, and is also a horrible actor.

So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Sep 28, 2008 3:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ya, thanks to

the manipulated energy crisis via Enron, and their WH cronies

by hardcore on Sep 28, 2008 3:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

shockingly I disagree again!

at least give him the actor part…he’s made as many legendary flicks as just about anyone!

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 12:25 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yup

nothing beats kindergarten cop, twins, and true lies.

So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Sep 29, 2008 6:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

duuuuude!

T1, T2, Predator, Commando, Total Recall, Conan, Running Man, and of course the best of the bunch-Pumping Iron. These are GREAT movies man. Unless you dont like being entertained.

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 6:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What was the one where he was a violin player?

A long haired german accented hippy dude? He looked funny holding the tiny violin in his big ole hands.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 29, 2008 7:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Predator is simply the most perfect action movie ever I can think of nothing that could improve it. It may not be the best action movie, but it was flawless in its execution.

by jae on Sep 29, 2008 7:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

T1 & T2

Are damn close to perfect too. And I think Arnold is fantastic in both.

Still: “he’s made as many legendary flicks as anyone” is way overstating the case.

By way of comparison…

Harrison Ford
Blade Runner
Star Wars Episode 4,5,6
Indiana Jones 1,2,3,4
Witness
The Fugitive
Apocalypse Now
American Graffiti

The late great Paul Newman
The Hustler 1 & 2
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
The Sting
Slapshot
Cool Hand Luke
Hud
Cat on a Hot Tin Roof

Don't mess with ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 29, 2008 8:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

While Terminator may have been a better movie (one of my favorites), I consider it flawed because it involves time travel, and the time travel paradox always presents a flaw. It can still be a highly entertaining movie, but it’s flawed. Only one movie ever dealt with it in an acceptable manner that didn’t leave far, far too much room for the paradox of time travel to rear its ugly head.

Arnie’s acting in Terminator was pretty limited as well, though it was his best role. He’s done better when he’s played a machine than when he’s played a person. Says something, it might.

by jae on Sep 29, 2008 8:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

pure entertainment basis

I’ll take Arnold’s resume against anyone’s

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 8:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Pure entertainment...

LOL! Call me silly but I’m a HUGE Van Damme Fan… shoot I even watch his crappy new movies! Anyways, It’s on every July!

BBQ, Ping Pong, Basketball, Bew, Bud and Van Damme Flicks!

A tony.psd tradition!

by Tony.psd on Sep 29, 2008 8:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ha jcvd

you should watch this tony lol

So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Sep 30, 2008 2:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ha JCVD

you should watch this tony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvMypT4T9q8

So I don't have a signature well these words would do! Who knew that upgrades can have downgrades too!

by 24k state fan since 87 on Sep 30, 2008 2:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

pure entertainment basis

 I’d rather watch Beyonce.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 29, 2008 8:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey JAE... are you a DJ?

Are you on my myspace? …and if so, are you the Jae that worked with me at Hollywood Video Back in 1998… all you guys quit opening day! Left me hangin’! I quit 2 weeks later after we got robbed and boss lady got pistol whipped!

by Tony.psd on Sep 30, 2008 3:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Different JAE on myspace. I’ve remixed and spun a bit, but strictly amateur stuff.

by jae on Sep 30, 2008 3:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

not just the guvinators fault, bro

we have an inept senate (don perata anyone?), unions (teachers, DOC, etc) and lobbyists who are straight raping this state.

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Sep 30, 2008 11:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

don't know

but i’d be less inclined to point the finger at FF’s and PO’s as they keep us safe. supposed to anyway. i know here in the city, they are grossly underpaid, most can’t afford to live here.
the powerful unions in the state like those i mentioned above attitude’s are, take, take, take, fvck everyone else… but that’s probably fodder for a whole other OT thread…

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Sep 30, 2008 3:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

the powerful unions

 Unions are just a lot of working men banded together for strength, they shouldn’t be a problem unless you are a business owner trying to exploit workers? The powerful unions are in reality power for the people.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 30, 2008 3:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Unions are just a lot of working men banded together for strength

it’s a nice theory, but not reality.
do unions help the common worker? sure they do. i’ve been a member of several unions and benfited from it.
but when unions and their lobbyists get sway in how a state budget turns out, something is very wrong and the unions have reached beyond the cookie jar.

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Sep 30, 2008 4:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

the original concept of unions was outstanding. Unfortunately theyve really deteriorated and completely abused their power.

by sam23 on Oct 1, 2008 10:04 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’ve thought exactly the same thing about the Republican party.

by jae on Oct 1, 2008 10:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ha

I knew that exact comment was coming as soon as I wrote that….But I thought sleepy would beat you to it.

by sam23 on Oct 1, 2008 4:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How about Firefighters?

  I doubt they are straight raping many firefighters,

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 30, 2008 3:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you crack me up skeptic

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Sep 30, 2008 4:15 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

kinda like

Enron raped CA and cost G. Davis the Gov’ship? Turn about isn’t fair play now eh?

and you really have gripe against the teachers? last I looked they weren’t among the most affluent professions …

by hardcore on Oct 1, 2008 9:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

teachers union, bro not teachers

love your energy but don’t put words in my mouth. the teachers union represents teachers and administrators not students, who are the most important part of the equation. when the education budget allotment is cut, the teachers union makes sure it is the students+school districts that suffer before the teachers/administrators. that ain’t right.

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Oct 2, 2008 4:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Administrators are not part of the teachers unions. I suspect your blanket assertions would be better received if you gave examples and cited evidence rather than presenting opinion wrapped next to something that if factually inaccurate.

by jae on Oct 2, 2008 4:11 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

not true

here is a link.
look, guys, first off, there were a number of things i asserted
1.state spending is out of control and it isn’t just the guvinators fault
2.unions are a benefit to all those whom are members. teamsters helped me get through school. UPS yo!
3.besides the most powerful unions of this state, which do have influence over how our state budget is run, there are MANY other parties to blame. sorry for the blanket statement here, jae, but do i have to list out all the culprits?
4.picking on unions is not the same as picking on their membership. though one represents the other, the other does not represent the union.

i appreciate your arguements, but jae, i’m not sure if you’re being snotty or downright dismissive here. hey, i haven’t seen anyone pose any facts in this mini thread. myself included. my bad. i love this state, and right now it’s a mess. it starts with the guvinator, but doesn’t end there.

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Oct 2, 2008 5:25 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs

You provided a link that shows that support staff (“paraprofessionals, office workers, custodians and other school employees”) can join the CTA. It appears that it’s opened up to people who work at a school but are not classified as teachers, but are still not part of the school management. I’m still not seeing where it allows for administrators.

by jae on Oct 2, 2008 5:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

according the CTA

you can become a member by filing out a form, prerequisits are only that you are employed by a school district.
there is a question on there “% of teaching duties” not sure how this affects office and other support staff, possibly they have lower dues. but i would say that it is possible for administrators to join. i would also say that some of the support office staff you already acknowledged could join are part of administration. hope this helps.

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Oct 2, 2008 6:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

several positions in a school are part time staff & part time faculty – examples include community service coordinator, school counselor, computer lab supervisor/tech, etc.

administrators are generally not included in faculty, and are considered staff if not placed in their own categories

- have worked in both private and public HS in CA for, well, longer than I’d like to admit but it’s over 20 years

by hardcore on Oct 3, 2008 8:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

the teachers union represents teachers and administrators not students?

    Wouldn’t that be the student union?

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Oct 2, 2008 5:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

skep crack up #2

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Oct 2, 2008 6:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Enron raped CA and cost G. Davis the Gov’ship?

like i said in my post, there are ALL KINDS of guilty parties here…

the stop calling him "beans" movement

by pervisNeverNervous on Oct 2, 2008 4:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

This is the worldwide web

Highly democratic (note lower case d). ;-)

By way of an initial topic: can the people who have voted tell us in one sentence why they voted the way they did?

Don't mess with ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 28, 2008 8:46 AM PDT   0 recs

Hey Sleepy,

great post. I’ve enjoyed reading the Starbury post, while I follow politics(not as much as the Warriors : ) ) that post did make me look into the election and the facts more than I usually do. The fustrating thing for me is that I moved from the Bay to Boise, ID, for school and my vote is going to be completely useless here. Last election Idaho was almost 70% republican. I think we all ca agree, reps, dems, other, that the electoral college is completely useless and should be gotten rid of.

While I’m a registered Republican, Im definetly voting for Obama in this election for many of the reasons discussed in the last thread. I happen to be a minoriy veteran(not that that makes what I have to say anymore significant, I just saw some ppl taking about who minority vets would wote for) and I am tired of seeing my good friends have to serve tour after tour in Iraq. While I only served over there once, some of the young kids I served with are over there for the third time now. Its hard because we know you can only play with fire so many times before you get burned. And yes there are positives that came from going over there but they are grossly out wieghed by the negatives. Maybe its time to try and fix some of the issues in our own border for a change instead of starting new wars in far away continents.

And as jae says below, the thought of Sarah Palin as president is both scary and kinda embarassing. McCain is 74, his age is fair game.

63, rest in peace man

by autumnwind on Sep 28, 2008 9:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

age

Not that it’s a big deal, but McCain is 72, not 74. Still old, but if there’s gonna be any intelligent discussion here, I think we need to make sure that even the simplest facts are correct.

I vote other, by the way. Ron Paul was my man.

by LDiles on Sep 28, 2008 2:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ty

for he correction, i appreciate it.

63, rest in peace man

by autumnwind on Sep 28, 2008 3:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ah perfect

I was hoping to hear from a Ron Paul guy in the last thread? Why Ron Paul? I’m seriously curious? Is it as basic as youre a Republican against the war, or you just hate McCain or is there something about Paul? I’ve been trying to figure out who this guys base is, he raises a ton of money but I’ve never actually met or heard from an actual Ron Paul supporter.

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 12:29 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Non-intervention, state’s rights, small (tiny) federal government, repeal of the federal income tax, strictly constitutional, strongly pro-life (stemming from his career as an obgyn…but he says it should be left to the states to allow, regulate, or ban abortions).

He just wants the federal government to get the hell out of our lives.
He’s never voted to approve a budget deficit, says he’ll never vote to raise taxes…

I don’t agree with everything he believes, and he probably takes his “hands off” approach a little too far at times, but I love where he’s coming from.

by deff bridges on Sep 29, 2008 10:26 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting

I wouldve liked to have heard more from him during the debates. I just strongly disagreed with him on Iraq, but pretty much agreed with his opposition to the grandiose spending and big government way of life. He sounds like someone I could support….but something about him is just so kooky. Am I simply falling prey to the image of him the media portrays, or is he actually sorta kooky? It was weird how during all the debates the other republicans would all laugh together at him. At least he seems very serious about the small government approach though.

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 6:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

His main problem is that he's not supported by the giant Dem/Rep machine

They’ve all got contacts, networks, vast sums of money, etc. at their disposal to do whatever they want to tear down the 3rd party. They know that as long as they hold the power together without letting anyone else in, they will always hold sway. The second you have to fight against a 3rd, 4th, or 5th party, you can’t win an election by creating a clear differentiation between yourself and your opponent. You’ll actually have to stand up for something instead of saying “well, he’s worse than me”.

I hate Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle, and Russel Peters because they make fun of white people like me. They also make fun of other kinds of people, which hurts me deep down because my ancestry is so mixed that I don't know what my official "race" is... so I get offended for all races!

by Dubs fan in Boston on Oct 1, 2008 10:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think there’s a bit more to it. It’s perhaps a bit hard to tell in the Bay Area or in Boston or anywhere that harbors a higher percentage of one end of the political spectrum, but political views really do resemble a bell curve more than a linear distribution. A higher number of people have centrist or near centrist views than are at either extreme. As such, catering to the ‘fringe’ party (whether you want to call it “fighting against” or “moving towards” cedes the middle ground

Perhaps paradoxically, the better strategy for Dems in light of a Green party position is not to try to attract those votes at the edges of the bell but rather to shift to the right and try to grab more of the middle. There are more votes to be had in the middle. The success of the Republicans with respect to their more extreme fringe elements have been twofold: A) the fundamentalist extreme of the party is more numerous than the extreme on the left wing [correllary— it’s easier to sell the population on right wing rhetoric for some reason even if opinion polls indicate that this isn’t actually in the voters’ self interest] and B) they have successfully kept them together as part of a single block, not causing a need to move further than further to the left to grab the middle.

One does not need to create a clear differentiation to win an election. One simply needs to grab more of the middle ground.

A third party at the national level, given the means by which elections and representation occur in our republic, is really only likely to succeed as a centrist party that splits up the grab for the middle. It’s also probably not likely to hold a place in a stable 3 party system for long, as once the center is disrupted, one of the other two parties will rapidly fail, as much by chance in a winner-take all situation as by any other means.

Now of course what defines the center shifts over the course of history, but it’s moving the opinion of the middle where progress is observed rather than trying to motivate the extremes.

by jae on Oct 1, 2008 11:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

honestly

you have no preference AT ALL between obama and mccain?

by Agent Zero on Oct 1, 2008 3:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Just to elaborate, ejdacanay

I basically agree with you: given the demographics of the site — mostly young, mostly Bay Arean, web savvy hoops fans — I’d be surprised if it didn’t skew pretty heavily Obama or Independent. I’m actually a little stunned McCain/Palin already have 14 votes (to Obama/Biden’s 15): how many IP addresses do you have, Brother Sam? ;-)…

Don't mess with ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 28, 2008 10:28 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

ha

actually I JUST now cast my first vote! I’m even more shocked than you to see 22 others on my (the good guys) side. But where the F were all of you guys last thread when I was getting pounded on 12 fronts for being an ignorant, ridiculous, illogical, media blaming,bible thumping, science ignoring, gun toting, meany?! Thanks for the help guys. I think I’m gonna try to stay out of debates in this thread, I’m sure sleepy, knowledge, skeptic and jae have had enough of me anyway.

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 12:33 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

while I am going to vote for Obama,

I agreed with alot of the points you were bringing up in the last debate and didnt like the way you were being attacked. I just didnt feel like my writing skills and my overall knowledge was good enough to comment there. I did enjoy reading the thread though.

63, rest in peace man

by autumnwind on Sep 29, 2008 10:09 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

no its ok

I’m a big boy, I can take a little criticism and I’m used to it, almost all my friends from home, college and work are a bunch of pussy liberals like all of you. :-) And I dont think you need to worry about your writing skills and overall knowledge, I’ve found your thoughts in this thread to be interesting and well organized.

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 6:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well as a fellow vet,

I feel bad for letting you hang by yourself on the ropes by yourself. I am so happy to see someone step up and stand up for what they believe in and share there toughts, people forget that left and right are almost the same thing compared to what other countries have going on(civil war, lack or rights, facism vs socilism). Honeslty, the point of the electtion is to have the canditates say what they belive and see who more ppl agree with, theyre really isnt a right or wrong.

And being a registed republican, I personally am dissapointed by McCain feel like he had to side with the Bush admin to get the conservative vote in the primaries, and his ridiculuos choise of Palin as his
VP. He should of made his own desicions instead of his poltical advisors, because they were both horrible desicions.

On a side note, thanks sleepy for making a thread were we can share our thoughts on the political realm(espicially for the 18 year olds that don’t get exposed to this much) change the title though. I always have enjoyed your dry humor and did so agian in the body of your main thread, but dont implicate just because you live in a democratic state that you are right and Sam is wrong…..

63, rest in peace man

by autumnwind on Sep 29, 2008 11:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Aw shucks.

Thanks.

Re the title: done, I was just giving Sam a l’il friendly crap, but I agree that it’s uncalled for. Ideally, we’re all getting edumacated here…

Don't mess with ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 30, 2008 1:01 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

no offense taken

the poll is starting to look a little more like I expected it to. Though I thought McCain would be getting blown out by “other” also.

by sam23 on Sep 30, 2008 2:15 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Whoops

Misposted.

Just to elaborate, ejdacanay: I basically agree with you: given the demographics of the site — mostly young, mostly Bay Arean, web savvy hoops fans — I’d be surprised if it didn’t skew pretty heavily Obama or Independent. I’m actually a little stunned McCain/Palin already have 14 votes (to Obama/Biden’s 15): how many IP addresses do you have, Brother Sam? ;-)…

Don't mess with ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 28, 2008 10:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Whoops

Double posted. I’m a tard.

Vote update: after leading 15-14 in total votes, Obama leads … 40-14?

I swear, there’s some shenanigans going on with the voting here. I still want to know how the final tally in the JRich trade poll was something like 47 million to 46.5 million…

Don't mess with ^^^^ !!

by Sleepy Freud on Sep 28, 2008 2:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You did that on purpose,

your trying to break the 500 mark on this new post : )

63, rest in peace man

by autumnwind on Sep 28, 2008 3:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I voted other

and by other, I mean nobody.

I can’t support Obama because I believe he’s food for the sheeple, something trendy to appease the masses. He talks incessantly and quite eloquently about change in his speeches but I wish he would say WHAT exactly he plans to do a little more often. People like change as an idea- it sounds fresh and exciting. Change, in reality, is painful. People lose their jobs, relocate, etc.. history is full of examples. And there was the FISA amendment business over the summer, on which I personally disagreed with Obama’s stance, but again, none of this will matter in the election because all he has to do is drop the c-word over and over and there will be a million starry-eyed supporters at his side.

I can’t support McCain because of the Palin pick, and he really does remind me of Bush, just in the way he talks and fumbles words like “Ahmadinejad”. I don’t believe being tortured in Vietnam, qualifies him for the presidency in any way, shape, or form- yet that’s the trump card he plays, time and time again, what he makes sure is ingrained in the mind of every voter.

Of course, none of this matters because I’m 17.

by antihero on Sep 28, 2008 11:23 AM PDT to parent up   1 recs

Of course, none of this matters because I’m 17.

  Well, it’s good practice for when you do vote. The main thing to get out of all the discussion is to figure out what really matters to you and what will have a concrete effect on your lifestyle then vote for the one closest to your real needs. Don’t be swayed by their looks, age, sex, color or personalities, go by how they will affect you life. None of them will be perfect but one will be better or at least less worse for your priorities :>)

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skeptic con Urquell on Sep 28, 2008 2:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

oh

shockingly insightful for a 17 yr old actually. Youre probably correct about both candidates. But I strongly encourage you to vote, (and vote Republican! jk, just vote) in the next election. Even if it is the lesser of two evils, and your vote may seem meaningless, its one of the most important things you can ever do, and something we take for granted too often.

by sam23 on Sep 29, 2008 12:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

talk about insight

your talk of voting for the lesser of two evils is one of the biggest problems in American politics. The complacency of voters is exactly why republicans are now stuck with an unimaginative geriatric and arguably the least qualified politician to ever win the vp nomination of a major party. Vote for who you believe in when you can. Where i certainly do agree with sam is that you should always vote and always try to be as informed as possible when doing so.

Rafael Rodriguez: More tools than Home Depot.

by BrianBokake on Sep 30, 2008 11:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

you are way ahead the the curve!

your instincts serve you well with regard to obama. i for one am an extreme leftist that thinks our presidential elections are about as legitimate as an oj simpson alibi, but i even jumped on the obama bandwagon at one point. that was before i found he he’s a member of the council on foreign relations. if you don’t know what the CFR is, you had better find out because it is organizations like this which have far more significance in the global power structure than any presidential administration. this is the essence of why i very seriously advocate REFUSING TO VOTE. this is absolutely the only way to effect policy making through elections. people need to understand that 1) when you vote for president you are not voting for the cadindidate, you are voting for for an ADMINISTRATION (i.e. cheney/rumsfeld) which is NEVER headed by the elected official, but by the “junta” as gore vidal has described it, which allows the official to serve as their figurehead.
2) these administrations often take their cues from MORE POWERFUL organizations of which the cabinet members and president are members, such as the CFR and the trilateral commission. these are not secret clubs shrouded in mystery either. they are totally legtimate organizations that count among their members the most powerful people in politics, finance and the media. it is vital that people develop a more holistic approach to politics. if you’ve never heard of these organizations, you really haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of the political process. politics are merely a PR department, if you will, for the REAL policy makers. so, for the sake of analogy, imagine voting as a totally illegitimate way of choosing the icing on your cyanide laced cake…but remember i’m an extreme leftist, so i’m probably wrong…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_Foreign_Relations

I'm keen on the professional basketball club The Golden State Warriors. I don't fancy other clubs.

by The Bimbo Coles Experience on Sep 30, 2008 7:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

no...

people losing their jobs is what is happening now… change is the opposite of that.

by Agent Zero on Oct 1, 2008 3:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Until he has a concrete plan that will work, it's all empty talk.

When management says “there’s gonna be some changes around here” is it good or bad? It’s good in the long run- that’s why change is necessary- but the most immediate consequence is layoffs, weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Nothing against change, but I believe many are supporting Obama for the wrong reasons, because he hasn’t given the information for people to support him for the right ones. Essentially leaving the common man in the dark while garnering blind support. The pitfall of democracy is voter ignorance.

by antihero on Oct 1, 2008 10:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

can the people who have voted tell us in one sentence why they voted the way they did?

  I love people more than I love money.

Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me

by Skepti