Complaints about Ronny Turiaf.
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 10:05 AM PST
143 comments
Alright, alright, so maybe I woke up on the wrong side of bed and have nothing better to do...but why hasn't anyone complain about Ronny Turiaf?
Besides Marco, and Anthony M, Ronny has the most turnovers in traveling. That's right... traveling.
Sure. he appears to be a great guy...funny, entertaining to watch. BUT definitely not to watch when he always goes up on a block ...when it's a pump fake.
At any situation, all situations, he just goes up...and attempt to block, (because that's what he does..right?) and fouls that human..and allows a three point play. (sometimes)
Should I be thankful when he fouls less than 3 in a game? And not all in one quarter?
And for a guy that earns $4.5 million a year, (sixth highest pay in the Golden State) am I asking too much if he learns how to score? Like Yao in the paint? Oh wait, he's a center...Like Tim Duncan? KG?
A master at baby hook...Ronny and his baby hook. Or Ronny pump faking so he can get to the line!
Yes, Ronny do the things that they do to you! Vengeance can be sweet. Get to the line if you can't score!
(And don't argue about rebounds. For a 6'10"..you better be getting a lot of boards.)
Didn't they teach him anything in L.A.?
(On a side note...Ronny will have an autograph sess next Tuesday, Jan. 13. San Leandro is far too far for me, but please if you do go, please tell him how awesome I think he is. [not sarcastic here])
This FanPost is a submission from a member of the mighty Golden State of Mind community. While we're all here to throw up that W, these words do not necessarily reflect the views of the GSoM Crew. Still, chances are the preceding post is Unstoppable Baby!
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You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one
Ronny’s paid less than the average NBA player. He’s a big, which makes him a rare commodity, which means he gets paid more than equally talented smalls. He’s not overpaid, he does what he can, and you should stop comparing him to the top centers/PFs in the league. Ronny doesn’t need to learn to score, the rest of the team can handle that. He could stand to rebound a little better, but overall, I’m very happy that we’ve got such a solid backup big for pretty darn cheap and you should too.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 6, 2009 10:14 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
+1
Especially to “but overall, I’m very happy that we’ve got such a solid backup big for pretty darn cheap and you should too.”
Ronnie Turiaf is hard.
Go warriors still.
Romes Mac Mojous
by ROMESdavidWOOD37 on Jan 6, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that so?
Define average? You made me look at almost all the PF in the league..and I’ve given up after the Wolves. With his experiences, (years) almost no one gets paid more than him. The only listed would be Heat’s Michael Beasley..but that’s because he was drafted (Ronny was not?) and has less than a year experience. But that boy can score!
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(Average player salary) = (sum of total player salaries) / (Number of players)
It’s not that hard dude. Let me just say that Mr. Pietrus makes more than Ronny.
Look here:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine
I can find 5 guys on the Pacers that make more than Ronny, that probably shouldn’t. It’s not that hard dude.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 7, 2009 7:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright princess....
It is hard when you’re doing an average comparison with the PF..which is what Ronny is. Do the comparison and find me men that makes less than him with his years of experiences. dude.
God know it’s simple if you compare the whole association…and look at the top players..and lowest pay players..at the average..then that’s Ronny’s mark. But not in PF.
Find me those guys. C’mon, dude, certainly you can. (And Michael Pietrus is a SF! With 5 years!)
by Shells on Jan 7, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I fail to see your point
You seem to suggest that finding players who make less than Ronny at the PF will prove your point that Ronny sucks or something. I say the fact that there aren’t many out there proves the point that Ronny makes almost nothing, yet contributes something. Is the future starter for the Warriors Championship team? No frigging way. But he’s a useful bench player, a great backup Center/PF, and he makes nothing compared to any other center/PF in the league who isn’t on their rookie or 10-day contract.
You make no sense.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2009 7:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
That’s because he doesn’t have enough experiences like the other PF. He’s only a good bench player IF someone is backing him up. (Why does Nellie put him up there alone?) With a big.
And didn’t we get him because he’s like the 2nd best in blocks?
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no
it’s because those guys are on rookie contracts. it has nothing to do with whether or not they are good, you just can’t pay rookies as much as you pay vets. of the guys who aren’t on rookie deals, ronny makes next to nothing. he’s a very good bench player when you compare him with other backup centers (which is a much more accurate description of his role on the team than backup pf). if you want to complain about our backup center, go whine to the vast majority of the league, who have much worse guys playing the same role. see what they think.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jan 8, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I don’t whine, but I do drink wine. As for your advice, I’m far too busy (reading GSOM) to go other fan sites.
I’m too lazy to look up other teams, but here are two guys that gets paid less than Ronny…but I think are better. And are bench players. Celtics Big Baby Davis, and Grizzlies’ Hakim Warrick.
And, actual some drafted rookies/soph do get paid as much as some vets. (not talking about those veteran all star ..they’re on a whole different level)
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
davis is on his rookie deal, and is worse than ronny. hakim warrick isn’t a center.
anyway, 99% of the players in the league are guys with at least one other person who makes less than they do and plays better. so, i’m sure that some other center in the nba makes less than turiaf, but is better, so just pulling one or two names out doesn’t really mean anything.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jan 8, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you think big baby davis is worse?
Wow, you said “worse than Ronny.” That’s an indication that Ronny is bad. Kidding! I still think he’s better. Just a tad bit. But Ronny still rocks.
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m curious if you started typing your response before you read through cap’n’s post, Shells. It doesn’t look like you did. You are correct in that you are too lazy to look things up. It’s a pity you also seem too lazy to realize that this fact, coupled with an apparent laziness that precludes you actually reading the post, makes your post more or less moot.
He mentioned (I’m paraphrasing) that guys on rookie contracts don’t have comparable salaries because of the rookie scale so that comparing Turiaf’s salary to theirs specious. You responded by mention Warrick and Big Baby that, presumably since they were actually just names in a sentence fragment, you thought were better buys than Turiaf. Warrick is a SF/PF tweener, not really a ‘big’ and still on a rookie deal. Davis is similarly still on his first contract, more or less dictated by the fact that he was a recent 2nd rounder on his first contract. Neither have been subject to a bidding market on their services. Both have contracts dictated by their draft positions, not their subsequent play.
It really does not appear that you read (or perhaps simply didn’t care) about what cap’n said, else you wouldn’t have provided examples that indicate his position rather than your own. Yes, some rookie contract players make more if said rookies were drafted very, very high (say, top three) or are near the end of their rookie deals, but their price is still not a product of their play but a product of where they were drafted. Do you know this? Are you making things up?
If you wanted to talk about other big men in a market to assess Turiaf’s value relative to his price, you cannot cite rookie contract players and have it mean anything at all. If you are looking for comparable players, check out what sort of contract Darko signed after his rookie deal, what sort of change Dan Gadzuric got when he inked his last deal. Does the name Jerome James Yes, there may be some better buys, but #1: you have to convince the player to play for you so the short term deals a championship contender can make aren’t the sort of ones we can get someone to sign for and #2: you have to be somewhat lucky. You can pay less, but your odds then favor getting one of the worthless Collins brothers or dropping $2mil on Mbenga.
So who are these better bigs who make less that aren’t on rookie deals? I can find a few, but if you’re too lazy, why should we help you make your otherwise pathetic argument?
by jae on Jan 8, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
=)
If you say my arguments are pathetic, why are you replying to them?
Apparently I’m new to all this NBA stuff, but doesn’t mean I don’t try to do research and stuff. I still think Glen is better than Ronny. Other than energy and block shots, what does Ronny bring to the court?
Ah right. Smiles.
As for cap’n hack, I’m pointing out that his case is not always correct. Sure, majority of times rookies do not earn any where near the vets, but there are exceptions. And you’re right …the high picks.
And apparently, there are bigs that makes less than Ronny. I just don’t know them…yet.
If I’m trying this hard to learn about the players and stuff, Ronny and the Warriors better be working even harder.
And yes, do continue to bash me. For every time someone brings up something, I can learn from them.
Thank you for commenting.
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you've changed your argument to
“There are some rookies that make more than veterans”? WTF. This is stupid.
Try doing your research before making blind commentary on one of the Warriors better signings. Glen Davis is not better than Ronny, I see him in Boston all the time. He’s fat, slow, and short. His main advantage is that he’s got good hands and agility for a man his size. They’re probably comparable on the 15 footer, but that’s about it.
Good luck learning about basketball, but if you don’t understand basic cap economics and player skills, you’ve got a long, long way to go.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thank you for commenting
Apparently I do have a lllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooong way to go.
But it is true. There are some rookies that makes more than vets (not talking about the all-star…) And there are some vets (Grant Hill comes to mind) that makes less than some rookies.
Am I wrong on that too?
Oh, and thank you for commenting.
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The economics of what you have to pay for a player isn’t simple. It’s not like all free agents are on eBay and the highest bidder always wins.
Grant Hill went to Phoenix because he wanted to try to win. He accepted a low offer from them because they were in a good position to offer him wins. Having made a ton of cash already, he didn’t need the money and valued winning more than more money. He never would have taken a similar contract with the Warriors. Never, not ever. Maybe he would have taken a big contract if we had the money and were willing to offer, but the deal he got there isn’t one he’d take here. That’s what people mean when they say that we have to “overbid” to get free agents to come here. That’s why saying we could have had Maggs for less because San Antonio allegedly only offered the MLE is not a good argument. THEY could have had him for the MLE. We paid a price that made him decide that money was more valuable than a shot at a title. For less (although we don’t know how much less), he’d have very likely taken an offer from a better team where he’d win more often.
Now the real issue is whether the Warriors could have gotten more mileage out of the $4mil or so they tossed at Turiaf. That question requires looking at who was on the market and where those guys wanted to go (e.g. their priorities of money vs. wins vs. geography vs. any other factor). Given what other big men have signed for around the league, it seems like a fair buy to me. It was neither overly large or overly long and given the financial situation the Warriors had at the time, it didn’t look like a move that threatened to cripple them by pushing them into the lux tax or give them an immovable contract if they had an opportunity to go another direction. I suspect that a contender in need of a backup big would stay on the phone and negotiate if Turiaf’s name came up in trade talks. He has something to offer teams at a reasonable price. He might even offer more value to other teams than he offers to us at this price.
by jae on Jan 8, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jae
I like to think you’re not picking on me, and rather educate me about the players and the way NBA goes.
I know you didn’t argue about rookies that do make more than vets..but if I were to name a few, would you give me a whole schooling about each player? Like Matt Barnes (would you then type something along the line because he’s on a one year contract) Eddie House (Because he’s not all the good? Possible?)
My point is…. there are some rookies that makes more than vets. That’s fact.
This is the NBA: Things Happens.
As for the issue, I wouldn’t know. I wasn’t around then. We have Ronny now. I’m happy with him…but like the NBA players, I am hungry. I could also be happier with him.
Lastly, was that why GH went to the Spurs and with that salary. Why did I think it had to do with injuries?
Anyway, thanks for commenting.
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My point is…. there are some rookies that makes more than vets. That’s fact.
You can find the NBA pay scales and collective bargaining agreement online if you want to know the real possibilities.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 8, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure we got maximum value for our money with Turiaf, but I’m sure we didn’t get robbed either. We bid a specific amount because, as a restricted free agent, we had to bid a price that he would accept AND the Lakers wouldn’t match. It was actually structured to be front loaded such that keeping him would have been a bigger lux tax hit for the Lakers, a move that made it more likely that we’d get him and a move that means in subsequent years, he’ll be an easier salary fit to either keep or trade.
Grant Hill wasn’t going to command top dollar anywhere because of his injury history, but because of his talent and past production, someone was going to take a chance on him. Most teams would have taken a low dollar chance on him. Given that, he could decide who he’d play for. For low dollar, a player will take the winner almost every time. We’d have to bid above, a dumb thing to do given his injury history, to get him to come here.
Generally, players want more guaranteed cash on multiple year deals than they’d take for a one year deal. One of the reasons we went for a longer term deal instead of trying to get a couple of one-year guys is that we were in the rare case of actually being below the cap, but weren’t going to be below once Andris and Monta got their raises. It’s somewhat of a loophole that we were in. If we got guys on 1 year deals for what Turiaf got (say 2 players for $2mil) and they walked away at the end of the year, we wouldn’t get that money back because we’d be over the cap. It’s a calculated move and it’s one of the few times that I thought management made a good call in recent times.
There are some vets that make less than some rookies. This doesn’t mean that we can get a vet for less than a rookie who will perform well enough for the job. I’ve spent a good deal of time looking at NBA player economics and I do not think we would have been able to get a competent backup 4/5 for much less if any less than we paid Turiaf on the free agent market. They are a scarce commodity. This drives up the price.
by jae on Jan 8, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does the name Jerome James Yes,
??? What?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 8, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry. I got distracted mid sentence and never completed it. My copy editor is on a short leash and should be looking for a new job.
Should have read: “Does the name Jerome James mean anything to you? <next sentence starts with "Yes”.>
by jae on Jan 8, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerome James mean anything to you?
Dosn’t ring a bell, what’s the story?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 8, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're talking to me
Yes, who is he? What’s his story? =) Lebron James…I know. Jerome James..not so…
Ah a center..for the Knicks. Did you want to compare him to Ronny? Was that it? An example perhaps? But he gets paid more. 8 years…perhaps a true center? Shoot, he’s not even playing.
Anyway, when I point out that SOME rookies makes more than vet, I’m stating that fact. I said SOME. Not all, not many. Not every. Not few. Not one..not three. Some. (why are men some sensitive over this?)
And this has nothing to do with Ronny. Totally another topic.
Sounds like supply in demand for them PF/C. (wow, they almost sounds like material goods)
I don’t know player economics, but someday it’ll come to me.
For now, let’s go Warriors!
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerome James
Overpaid big man who got a contract larger than Turiaf’s based on a couple of good playoff games. Very big, not very good. One of the many overpaid bigs in hte league, he’s presently a Shaq-sized paperweight responsible for making sure that the bench in Madison Sq. Garden doesn’t accidently fly up towards the ceiling. Since signing a 5yr/$30mil contract, he’s he’s appeared 87 games over three years averaging about 8mpg when he does manage to drag his blubber onto the court. For that he clears $6mil + before taxes.
I brought him up to indicate what the actual market does to the salary of bigs. It’s real easy to pay them a ton because they’re few and far between.
by jae on Jan 8, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerome James had one good playoff series as a Sonic,
against the Sacramento Kings 3 or 4 years ago, if my memory serves me right. The rumor was that Rick Adelman and Sacremento cut him and put his belongings in a trash bag and sent him packing and he got his revenge with the Sonics in the playoffs. Along came Isiah and gave him a full MLE for 5 years.
Jerome James is not an NBA caliber player btw…
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 8, 2009 10:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't knock a guy
when he publicly apologizes for not rebounding as much as people would like.
by IQofaWarrior on Jan 6, 2009 10:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
That’s a standup sort of statement you rarely hear from a player.
by jae on Jan 6, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He definitely has the right personality and intangibles, but i think he might have too much energy and emphasis on shot blocking to rebound well because he puts himself out of position.
by T-Money on Jan 6, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's him though
If you watch the games, (I’m certain you do) he would hit his head every time he fouls someone..because he knows he made those mistakes. And that’s how he is…which is entertaining (can be) to watch.
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yup..
the guy blocks shots like a beast! the reason why he doesn’t grab every board is because he’s going after every shot. I’d rather have him defend the rim first and grab boards second. While he’s defending the rim, it’s the other players responsibility to pick up the board but no one seems to be doing that. I’ve seen it happen many times, Turiaf blocks and defends the rim with his life and the other team just gets possession after possession with their offensive rebounding until Ronnie is completely worn down. Imagine what that does to your heart and determination. You give it your all every night and you dont see the rest of your team giving it 100%, that must make you feel pretty crappy. Then people expect this guy to grab every rebound and he apologizes and people still want more. i’m reading people say we’re not getting our money’s worth for Ronnie and that’s complete BS. A player that cares and is willing to put his body on the line night in and night out like Ronnie Turiaf is hard to come by in this league. Ronnie was never known for his scoring and people want him to score on a team full of scorers, come on now. This dude is a class act and the rest of the warriors can learn a lot from this guy.
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Jan 9, 2009 9:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In terms of win probability, it’s FAR more important to rebound well than to block shots. It’s not even close. The blocks may look more spectacular, but they’re rather overrated in terms of their impact on games most of the time. A blocked shot doesn’t mean a defensive stop as a large percentage of the blocks go back to the team that just got rejected. A defensive rebound always means a defensive stop, and it’s the stops, not the rebound or the block, that impact the game score.
I’m not faulting Turiaf here, but going for every block at the expense of rebounds is a poor, poor strategy.
by jae on Jan 9, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
true
however, rebounding should be done as a team. it should not be one man’s responsibility. An interior defender’s first instinct is to prevent the shot from going in to the basket. Protecting the hoop is what comes first and when the ball is loose that’s when the rebound needs to be secured. It seems that the the responsibility lies heavily on Ronnie and that’s unfair. Defense is done as a team, as is rebounding. Basketball is a complete team game so his teammates should be taking a lot of the heat off of him because they’re not doing their part. They can’t stay in front of their defenders and they get beat time after time and that’s where Ronnie/Biedrins have to provide that second line of defense. so who grabs the rebound after that? it has to be one of the other guys. Yes, Ronnie can rebound better and he doesn’t have to go after every shot but if his teammates are consistently getting beat then he has to step in and protect the goal. He would eat up all the boards if his teammates can actually stop people from getting into the lane so frequently and if they can force bad shots by the opposition. Ronnies giving it his all every time he’s on the court and i just feel like people are demanding so much more from him.
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Jan 9, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
An interior defender’s first instinct is to prevent the shot from going in to the basket. Protecting the hoop is what comes first and when the ball is loose that’s when the rebound needs to be secured.
I think this is a recipe for a bad defender. An interior defender’s first instinct should be to prevent the opposition from getting a good shot. There are different ways to go about this, but generally, ones that involve holding position and being an obstacle to getting to the rim are better than ones that force the defender to cede position while going for the block. Waiting for the ball to be up off the rim before thinking about tracking the rebound is an recipe for not getting a rebound, especially if you’ve been moved out of position.
The very best defenders can block shots and hold position and rebound, but there are accomplished shot blockers (Foyle comes to mind) who build their block total to the detriment of overall defense much of the time. At a certain point when it’s clear that the big guy is going to rush to block the shot regardless of who’s fault it is that the offensive player got into the lane, the offense can quickly adapt and dish off for an even easier shot (and a shot with a high probability of an offensive rebound) than if the defender stayed home and defended the space around the rim.
It isn’t entirely Turiaf’s responsibility to rebound, but given the composition of the team, the block ‘em all mentality isn’t as productive as holding defensive position and going for the block when it won’t destroy position if it fails. And it’s much more the bigs’ responsibility to secure the boards than it is for perimeter players.
And his effort is quite good. I think strategically, especially given the lack of additional rebound support or people to keep guys out of the lane that the block instinct is not as good as holding position. Giving your all (effort) does not mean you are playing your best.
by jae on Jan 9, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nicely put
but you do agree though that our perimeter defenders are amongst the worst in the league right? i mean they get beat so easily and our defense collapses and the task of guarding the hoop falls on Turiaf/Biedrins. i think our big guys do a nice job rotating to where they need to go but a lot of the times that i see Ronnie going up for the shot is when the opposition has already gotten to where he wanted to be on the floor and it is our last defense. Also, a lot of times, he does get a clean block, everyone just stands around and no one picks up the board. You’re right, he could do a better job of holding his position but when i said “An interior defender’s first instinct is to prevent the shot from going in to the basket. Protecting the hoop is what comes first and when the ball is loose that’s when the rebound needs to be secured.” I meant that his whole job is to prevent a bucket however he can whether it be hold your position/ take a charge (like you said), beat the player to the spot, make a play at the ball, rotate or block the shot. However they can prevent a basket then that’s what i meant. Maybe the coaching staff should tweak the defensive strategy a little bit and stress better team rebounding, although i’m sure they already do.
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Jan 9, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, our perimeter defense stinks. It puts the bigs in a not much of a way to win situation. For any talk about Biedrins not being able to defend , I don’t think we’ve really seen what he can do when provided with a reasonable situation. Great defender? Highly unlikely. Perfectly competent defender? Maybe. When you’re tasked with doing everything and then folding the laundry, it’s tough to tell what the strengths and weaknesses are.
I do think though that the way to make the best of it isn’t to try to challege shots, but rather to wait back. Yes, they’d surrender some high percentage mostly uncontested shots from 15 to 17 feet out, but the hope that the guards aren’t quite balanced and only make 65% of these and you can have half a shot at a rebound is better than getting 5 blocks a game (about half of which still go back to the shooting team) but surrendering dunk and layup opportunities converted 90% of the time and never being there to rebound the misses. [Yeah, I made those numbers up as examples, but I do think that the big moving out for a block tends to be a losing proposition over the course of a game for such reasons.)
Strategically, the Warriors defense hasn’t looked good. Given personnel who aren’t particularly gifted, they need a sounder strategy.
by jae on Jan 9, 2009 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
however i still think that it is important to block shots but you’re right rebounds = more possessions and more possessions = more shots and more shots = momentum/ more points (possibly). I never disagreed with you on that i just feel like Ronnie is doing a good job, especially earlier in the season, and he is taking the blame for something that everyone should be doing. I know the bigs are supposed to be grabbing most of the boards but we need more of a team effort. this seasons been truly hard to watch thus far but i’m sticking with it like i always do. I still cheer for them and even though i see so many boneheaded things going on.
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Jan 9, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
please don't lecture me.
It’s too late in the night, but for rebounding…no blocking, if you noticed, these past games Ronny has been playing the C. Alone. No Andris. No Brandan along his side. (forget AR & RK..they are rarely in) Usually Nellie puts him in the start of the fourth with 4 smalls. C’mon now, how are the smalls gonna grab those rebounds with the other team plays big and bigger? Agressive… if Kelenna is playing, perhaps yes. Marcos..eh sometimes. Corey. Possible. But CJ and Jamal? No so.
by Shells on Jan 9, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so blame it on nellie then
he’s an idiot for playing 4 guards and 1 center. it’s a recipe for disaster every time and he still hasn’t learned. how many times have we gone with a more traditional lineup of 2 guards, 1 small forward, 1 power forward and 1 center and we’ve actually done a decent job all around then some how we relinquish the lead because nellie decides to go small for some unknown reason? it amazes me every time. small ball is highly ineffective and he’s the only coach that actually goes the smallest he can actually get. other coaches use their own version of small ball by putting natural 4’s at the center position but the rest of the other guys on the floor are big enough to hang with the opposition. Nelson places all of the responsibility to block shots, grab rebounds, defend, score some and play at a high up and down tempo. He really knows how to beat his players up without actually throwing a punch.
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Jan 10, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can only control so much...
Nellie can only control so much of the game. The players have to be able to know when to do the things on their own. I also don’t like it when Nellie goes small. I give it credit that it works sometimes, but not most. And I do blame Nellie when he doesn’t call out players doing terribly. (examples: Cap Jack. He leaves him in there to be more and more stubborn. Why is he always trying to get to the foul line? Corey does this too. And he more’s animated…sounds and all. Don’t they realize that they’re not always gonna get foul? A lot of the time? Although I do believe Corey’s % to get the foul line is way higher than Cap Jack.) And call out players that are doing so grand.
But hey, he is the head coach. I am, on the hand, the fan. I could only support them. (Occasionally complaining wouldn’t hurt them either)
by Shells on Jan 10, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My approach is similar to yours as a fan
Then this dude got on my case calling me a “bandwagoner” and then labeling me as thinking I’m better than everyone else. Haha he’s hella ignorant.
by Golden Boy on Jan 10, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he intend in a wrong way....
But I also think the Warriors are a good team. It’s the greater teams that wins though. =(
by Shells on Jan 10, 2009 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ronny T
He is the best shot blocker/worst rebounder I have ever seen. It’s uncanny.
Put a little mustard on it
by The Barnes Supremacy on Jan 6, 2009 10:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
+1
He goes for everything, which puts him out of position to rebound. He needs to learn when to go for a block and when to stay at home and be in position for the board.
by BobbyLeeHurt on Jan 6, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We knew exactly what we were getting when we signed Turiaf, and scoring inside the paint with “KG” or “Duncan” like moves was not to be expected. “Didn’t they teach him anything in L.A.?” It ain’t that easy to learn the moves to master the paint in the NBA. At least he does what he does on the defensive end when hes called while providing quality minutes off the bench for Biedrins. He can even SOMEWHAT spread the floor with a mid-range jump shot on offense.
by Bloot on Jan 6, 2009 10:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The guy has "heart" like no other....
Yes in short, you clearly DID get out of the wrog side of bed this morning.
NOT EVERY PLAYER ON OUR TEAM NEEDS TO BE A SUPERSTAR!!!!!!!!!
We cannot keep comparing every single one of our players and saying “why are’nt they playing like X….”
Turiaf is Turiaf and that means you have a backup player, who give the MOST effort on our team, he pumps his team mates up, makes ENORMOUS blocks at key moments and if he hits some shots along the way…then great. He has a specific role in this team and I truly like his play and deserves to be one of the Captains. YES he could improve some parts of his game and I am sure he will, as he is also a bloody hard worker.
Consideing what this guy went through with open heart surgery…..you may want to cut the guy some slack.
He is never going to be a KG or a Duncan, but he will serve the Warriors extremely well and I hope for many years, as I truly believe that Ronny has been one of the most infectious players to team spirit in this squad and I believe from what I have read, he has become a great mentor for the younger players in how they behave.
His public attitude, on-court attitude and general manner are a true reflection of what a sports star should be. A ROLE MODEL.
Someone that “Sulky” Rudolph would do well to learn from.
So no…he may not have all the skills that you desire…but for me, everything else he brings is more than enough value for money, for what he is being paid!
He is the very spirit of my signature below. So much so, I just bought his shirt!
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 6, 2009 10:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ah BritWarriorGSM
It’s “wrong” not “wrog.” Certainly, I did wake up on the wrong side of the bed today. But it’s so pleasant to see that there are so many positives for dear Ronny.
But, who the heck uses “bloody?” Certainly, you must be from UK..thus the Brit?
And therefore, you would look at Ronny with sympathize eyes and type “Considering what this guy went through with open heart surgery…..you may want to cut the guy some slack.”
If you look at the NBA players, almost all of them have their own share of problems. Sure Ronny might be the one with heart problem…but do you think the players are gonna be like “wow, this guy has a tissue that is holding his heart together..let’s give him some slack. Here Ronny…here’s the ball, make a a basketball. No, no…no…here…just take the ball and keep it.”
And I do give him slacks. I jump up and down when he gets a proper block. I pull my hair when he gets a foul. I can’t stop smiling when he scores..In fact, I think it’s almost like a miracle..in that Boston game. But when he foul and fouls again and again…it’s just gets a tad bit sad.
And why are you comparing Rudolph to Ronny? Didn’t you say that “we cannot keep comparing every single one of our players…”
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ahh Shells
it is “a sympathetic” eye not “sympathize” eye
by saintdee on Jan 6, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ah Shells
It’s BritWarriorGSW not Brit WarriorGSM
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 6, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks guys for the correction. You guys are making my day even better! =)
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhhh the joy of not proof reading...
I have fallen foul of that many times. However I have also tried not to hang others on it, when I know I do it myself as you have seen below, it can bite you.
My point being, that ALL of our players have things they can do a lot a better. Going after one of the great characters of our team however, does not do any good. Besides, I would compare Andris to KG, Duncan, etc rather than Ronny. Ronny is a backup and it struck me that you were asking questions more of a starting centre rather than a backup.
I was however pointing out all the things he brings to the team, and for that I can cut him some slack, including his personal health triumphs, it’s staggering he is even playing. Not sure why me being a Brit has got to do with a sympathetic view though?
Let me explain the comparison for you in the context that I mentioned with regards Rudolph. (I.e. Anthony Randolph). AR has shown a slightly sulky and petulent attitude by all accounts that he needs to change. I compared Ronny as a role model for who he should consider modelling himself on in terms of attitude. I was not comparing their playing, but simply their attitude, maybe a couple of rereads of that sentence and you would have understood as well?
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 6, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Aww BritWarriorGSW
I’m not trying to start a fight…it’ll just be so awesome if he could score…like the some PG/SG should do deed.
And he needs to learn to control those blocks!
Ah, but no one is perfect.
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AR has shown a slightly sulky and petulent attitude by all accounts that he needs to change.
Haha, If I was playing on this team I’d have a bad attitude too. I don’t like sucking and I’m glad Rudolf don’t either. I wish the other players had the same problem then maybe it would get fixed.
Other than rebounds my only problem with Rony is he’s afraid to take the open shot , he get’s the ball and freezes when he could make it, he’s not a Dris like awful shooter, so maybe Nellie is getting into his head?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 6, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ronny shows great skills sometimes
the problem is, it’s only sometimes. then because he contests so many shots, he never gets rebounds. that’s why he seems at his best when him and andris are on the floor.
by HoLdEmUP on Jan 6, 2009 11:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
oh also, i love ronny, and he fires up the crowd and his teammates
players like that are invaluable.
by HoLdEmUP on Jan 6, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His rebounding is in line with his career avgs
3.1 vs 3.4 (career avg) – his blocks are way up though.
But part of this season is having these players get accustomed to the playing style. I wonder how often in LA he handled the ball? I am guessing he is handling the ball a lot more, and probably is getting used to it. I remember beans not handling the ball well last season and this season he is doing a much better job at dribbling.
by mosdl on Jan 6, 2009 11:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Per minute...
the difference is a little more striking. Mostly on the offensive side, but his defensive boards are down too.
"...OlympicMike is clearly the Barack Obama of GSoM"-Sleepy
by olympicmike on Jan 6, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree
Gotta be honest, yes Turiaf has heart, yes he gets big blocks, yes he plays with passion but he was not a great signing, imo. He doesn’t rebound and he’s not really big enough to be a defensive center. If you’re looking for someone to back up Biedrins, why wouldn’t you look for someone who is bigger than Andris, who’s main liability is size, and someone who gets boards, since with Andris out our best rebounders become guards? Why do we always have to be “smart” and get tweeners? If you’re looking for a 4, may I also suggest someone who can rebound and help with a little D?
Blocks are great, but what you’re really saying is, the guy can defend the rim. We’ve seen that is an area we’re lacking and Turiaf has been refreshing in that respect. But what we really need is a guy who can defend the rim, rebound, and defend full sized centers. Doesn’t need to score, but needs to be a better fit as a back up center.
The Lakers knew what they were doing. He’s great to have around and is fine playing 10 minutes a game, but anything more and he’s overexposed. So, yes, he only makes $4.5mm, but you’ve got to be very careful because it’s easy to run out of cap room by adding average bench players. No need to remind you that Camby was had for nothing more than dumping his $8mm salary, about what Turiaf and Buike make together.
by jmaaan on Jan 6, 2009 11:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
So who out there was available at a more reasonable price who fits the profile of the bigger rebounder?
I don’t know when Camby was shopped or whether or not any other team was approached other than the Clippers. You can remind all you want, but it’s not clear that we had a shot at Camby.
by jae on Jan 6, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to get way off topic,
but possibly drafting Marresse Speights would of been a the best option since the FO knew that POB was gone and Kosta was ineffective. Having a front court of Harrington, Hendrix(second round pick) Wright, Speights, and Beidrins would of worked better than what we got now.
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 6, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Speights was marginally better than Randolph at that slot with the guys on the board as they were. I thought he’d have a better chance of contributing sooner and lower probability of total bust. But depending on him wasn’t really a great idea. Speights has been ok, able to contribute a few minutes a night and is presently more productive than Turiaf.
What we have now is a real testament to poor planning or likely no planning at all.
by jae on Jan 6, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The poor planning is what gets me the most.
Nellie and Mullin(assuming that he was still part of the descision making process at the time) had to know that Harrington, the only player on the roster that was a proven 4, wanted out. Did Mullin really gamble on Wright developing and trusting Nellie to give him that chance? Did Mullin really think that Nellie would play Turiaf and Biedrins toghether, or did he think the Maggette at the 4 was a good idea?
The trading Harrington for Crawford just made a bad situation worse. Another combo guard who scores on high volume shooting and doesnt know what defense is, with 3 years left on his deal.
I would not have such a problem with RR, if he just would fire Mullin and put someone with expireince and say ‘this is the guy in charge of all basketball operations.’ What we have now is a circus in the front office…
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 6, 2009 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah warriorsscore110
It’ is “experience” and not “expireince.” I hope I made your day too. And circus are entertaining to watch. Just ask Ronny. (I meant that in good terms.)
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"the circus is" or "circuses are"
Maybe you should stop correcting other people’s grammar and focus more on relevant arguments. And don’t tell me that I’m a hypocrite because I wasn’t the one that goes low enough to bash on the Warrior with the biggest heart.
Don’t go firing wild accusations at innocent players just because you’re upset and he hasn’t been criticized yet.
Thank you, Dubs.
by misterho on Jan 6, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Misterho
Apparently someone is having a terrible evening.
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please don't
assume anything that you don’t know about my life.
It upsets me that you would complain about Turiaf for not scoring (and other such skills) and be confused as to why nobody else has already complained.
Maybe that’s because he’s doing his job just fine, and that he wasn’t brought in here to be a primary scoring option. Maybe that’s why we have Crawford, Jackson, Maggette, Belinelli, Morrow, etc.
How can you complain about scoring if we’re already so stacked? How can you be upset at how he consistently blocks, changes, and contests shots?
You can’t find a new scapegoat every time you’re unhappy about something
Thank you, Dubs.
by misterho on Jan 6, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who said I was upset?
Stop saying I’m upset. Just because I post a thread about Ronny and simply complain about things, doesn’t mean I’m upset with him. Like many, I like him.
And I’m not picking on him because supposedly he has a “big heart.” He better…he’s 6’10’!
But unlike many who can be in denial, (can be) there’s still tons of improvement needed of him. It’ll be awesome if he can score. Apparently they didn’t teach him that in LA. Block shots when needed. But that’s fine. He can all learn that here.
And I don’t post my discontent every time I’m unhappy with one of the players…there’s other fans that does that.
Stop assuming…like you’re assuming a male.
And if you can’t find any humors in a lot of my response, then seriously, you gotta get your life check.
by Shells on Jan 7, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your missing the point,
Turiaf is our back up PF/C. He is paid less than the average player in the NBA and yet you want him to be a superstar. He is doing a good job in his role and doing a great job on being a positive influence on the team.
Seriously with all thats wrong with the Warriors on court performance, Turiaf is not even on the list….
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 7, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
=)
That’s because with huge mistakes, it makes the small mistakes look smaller. Maybe even petty. It’s like a win. When you win, the 20+ TO gets overlooked., shooting at 35%…. Who will remember that?
Winning cures all. (Well it better.)
With more known players on our team, who’s gonna give Ronny some attention? The media (haven’t really read any news of him)? The fans?
And he can be a superstar. He just needs …a lot of time. Yao (not comparing..giving an example) wasn’t the best C when he started…but now, oh now he’s a beast.
There’s always room for improvement. He can always produce more. (I know that other players have a lot of problems, but this isn’t my place to list them…or to give them their attention. This is Ronny’s place!)
by Shells on Jan 7, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And he can be a superstar. He just needs …a lot of time. Yao (not comparing..giving an example) wasn’t the best C when he started…but now, oh now he’s a beast.
And with that, any sense of objective credibility got flushed down the tube.
by jae on Jan 7, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 8, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe even petty.
kind of like this post?
by the evil monkey on Jan 7, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ronny's actually 6'8" (9.25" w/ shoes)
by the evil monkey on Jan 7, 2009 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
=)
He must’ve grown 2 inches in those 3 years… =) But I think the Warrior list him 6’10".
And if he’ 6’8"…he should be Cap Jax’s height..which he isn’t.
by Shells on Jan 7, 2009 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever seen him standing next to Jax
Or for that matter, have you ever known somebody who played organized JV Highschool ball? Everybody and their mother gets listed at whatever the team wants.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2009 8:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I have
Don’t you watch games? He’s standing next to the other players..and don’t tell me those shoes have like 3 inches on them. If you pay attention, you’ll noticed that if he stands next to Andris, he is slightly shorter, but about the same height as Rob, Brandon, Anthony R.
LOL. “Everybody and their mothers gets listed at whatever the team wants.” Not always the case…even in the NBA.
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
the height listings ARE almost always wrong. there are quite a few guys who don’t want to be listed at 7’, so they get listed at 6’11", or whatever. it happens all the time.
heart of a champion, will of the warrior.
by cap'n hack on Jan 8, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Concern
With all these not seeing eye to eye, is everyone saying that Ronny isn’t 6’10"? And instead, 6’8"?
Because if that’s the case, everyone else would be about 2 inches shorter than him.
Since he’s having a signing sess, someone bring a the 10’ measuring tape!
Lastly, if a PF and or C is listed wrongly on the height, say more that what he is…say Ronny at 6’10" (when in reality he’s 6’8") and has to guard a human that is listed at 7’1" (say that’s the real height..they didn’t lie..their team didn’t tell them to lie) , that’ll be a terrible matchup. " Poor Ronny.
by Shells on Jan 8, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm done trying to talk to you
And if you can’t find any humors in a lot of my response, then seriously, you gotta get your life check.
You obviously don’t have any valid argument to make, just your belief that Ronny is somehow not playing up to his “superstar level.” And don’t tell me you never said that.
And he can be a superstar
The bottom line is that Ronny is performing adequately in the job that he was brought in here to do, at the relatively small amount of cash he’s earning.
Thank you, Dubs.
by misterho on Jan 8, 2009 6:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Speights was marginally better than Randolph at that slot
Where did that Gortat guy go in the draft? Why do we miss that stuff?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 6, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was drafted in ’05. We nabbed Ellis and Taft in the second round that year. Gortat was taken near the end of the 2nd round by Phoenix who traded him for cash considerations or something like that.
2nd rounders are extremely hit and miss. I suspect that luck is the primary factor in getting good players in the second round.
by jae on Jan 7, 2009 1:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect that luck is the primary factor in getting good players in the second round.
Yeah, too bad we weren’t lucky enough to notice him, he could do a lot for our toughness problem.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 7, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We were too busy drafting Ellis that year.
I thought Taft was a very good pick as well. In very limited time, he was reasonably good, played tough D, worked hard. He was ‘talented’ enough to improve quite a bit too. If he stayed healthy, I suspect he’d be a good contributor. Can’t fault that pick.
by jae on Jan 7, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can’t fault that pick.
I don’t know, just a few minutes of this gortat guy and his toughness was obvious, I can’t remember much about Taft other than he was always hurt so that doesn’t strike me as a good choice?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 7, 2009 3:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t remember that there was any injury history with Taft. That he got hurt after the pick (and developed some bizarre inflamatory condition) doesn’t make it a bad choice.
I do remember Taft. He was considered a major talent who, prior to his 2nd (last) year in college was considered a probable lottery pick. He didn’t ‘develop’ and this was largely considered a result of his lack of motivation and poor work ethic. But he was reasonably big with a good standing reach (similar to many centers) and strong and fast. His combine results were real good in strength and speed (although looking at it now Gortat was better in that he was stronger, nearly as fast and a bit taller).
When Taft got here, the motivation problems didn’t seem to be an issue. By no accounts was he a slacker and when called on to go in and do the dirty work of being a big body, playing D, pushing down low and going for boards, he did it. In fact, his willingness to go in and work hard seemed to be an asset. He didn’t go out and toss up bad shots but converted efficiently. His rebounding was adequate for a backup 4/5 and he had good hands suggesting that he might be better than the limited time numbers. In 144 minutes, he turned the ball over twice, which was real, real good back in the days of the “Foyle off the foot” plays.
And then he hurt his back and never really played again, struggling with the D league last year.
Gortat looks real, real good in hindsight and from the combine numbers, he was clearly an intriguing talent. He didn’t appear to be NBA bound though, as he stayed in Europe for a couple of years. I have no idea how he was scouted out of Poland, but the translation between the European leagues and the NBA have been somewhat hit and miss.
by jae on Jan 7, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Taft went into the draft with back injury speculation
But I can’t find anything about it now…
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2009 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The back injury happened in the summer after he was drafted but before he played.
It’s unfortunate as back injuries in big men almost never go away. They lead to knee problems which get worse. Ralph Sampson’s chronic knee problems were traceable to a back injury that caused him to change his stride slightly. Extend the torque on the lower extremities with a giant above them now shifted in an unusual way and things go bad. Bad backs, especially in bigger players, should probably considered permanent if you’re thinking about acquiring a player.
by jae on Jan 8, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd remove the "almost"
Ankle, knee, back… all these are used to compensate for any deficient joint else where. Hurt your right knee and you have to compensate by overusing your left, hurt your back, and you walk funny, injurying your knees… just bad all around, especially when you’re huge.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 8, 2009 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
technically, Camby makes $11.25 million this year and $10.9 million next
his base contract was 6 yrs $45.1 million, but went up to $57.1 w/ likely bonuses. likely vs unlikely. if a bonus is likely, whatever the “goal” was, it was achieved in the previous year. and if considered ‘likely’ is also counted against the cap.
http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nBa&id=401
by the evil monkey on Jan 7, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Turiaf, the new Foyle?
His game actually reminds me a bit of Adonal’s. He is an excellent shot-blocker who doesn’t rebound particularly well for a guy his size (though Foyle was much more respectable). He is also an offensive liability (though not to the extreme that Foyle was). I think the biggest differences between the two is the size of their contracts and the size of their on-court personalities. Both seem to be good guys who work hard and stay prepared despite irregular minutes.
The nice thing about Turiaf is that he fills a big need on our team and he does so at a very reasonable price. If he can get his rebounding and FG% back up to Laker levels (even if his incredible Blk numbers decline) I’d be even happier with him.
His rebounds have suffered a bit from the fact that he is having to constantly provide weakside help and challenge shots at the rim. It’s hard for me to say if he would help the team more by staying at home and boxing his man out more often. Obviously he is getting to a good amount of those shots that he challenges but when he doesn’t get the block usually either the shot goes in or his man gets the offensive board and puts it in. The best solution of course would be that the team gets better defensively and puts him in a position that he could focus more on rebounding but that doesn’t seem very likely with this cast of characters.
The things that are more confusing to me are his offensive rebounding and FG%. His offensive rebounding numbers are down from 2.3 per 36min to 1.4, and his FG% is down from .549 and .474, the last two years, to .431 this year. These things are obviously tied to one another. Watching him play in LA I remember him getting a lot of put-backs and he’s not doing that as much here. He is having to settle for a mid-range jumper which is clearly not the best part of his game (though he can hit it). Hopefully he can get it together on this side of the court as he learns the new system and how he can find his spots to crash the boards or find easy buckets.
"...OlympicMike is clearly the Barack Obama of GSoM"-Sleepy
by olympicmike on Jan 6, 2009 12:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hummm...
It’s hard for me to say if he would help the team more by staying at home and boxing his man out more often
Give an NBA guard a free layup and hope for a rebound or make his layup much more difficult and hope that somebody can come over and grab a rebound over an NBA 7 footer standing right under the basket. Certainly caught between a rock and a hard place, but I’d take the contested layup/hope for a rebound every time. Maybe if the guys can learn better defensive rotation, Ronny could stay on his man while somebody else comes over to help.
As to your last paragraph… if his offensive rebound numbers are down and he’s resorting to mid-range jumpers instead of putbacks, he’s probably just being kept away from the basket rather than sitting under it. If he’s used in pick & pop situations while Andris is pick & rolling it would explain this change.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 6, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Though I wasn’t clear in my post, he challenges lots of shots that aren’t otherwise uncontested. While I agree that he is often forced to bring help, he does often give help a little too quickly ( when a guard is still in position to challenge the shot himself, or when the other “big” on the floor is defending the post). I totally agree with what you said in your scenario, but I’ve seen him give help with no chance to really change the shot and end up missing a rebound numerous times. I know it’s not an easy situation for him on this team. Lets be honest, Ronny’s not really the root cause of this problem, the rest of the defense is. He is doing the best he can, and I didn’t really mean my post to be a criticism of him, but ideally he could show a bit more restraint as he has done in past years (this year he is really going for *everything*).
I also agree that he is being used to “pop” more than he has in the past, and you know, I don’t mind him at all in that situation. I’d just like to see him crash the offensive glass a bit more often. Of course to be fair he is probably more worried about getting back seeing as he is one of the few guys who actually plays defense on the team.
"...OlympicMike is clearly the Barack Obama of GSoM"-Sleepy
by olympicmike on Jan 6, 2009 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man love alert
I totally agree with you too… I was just being a combination of a devil’s advocate and pointing out some interesting potential causes for his decline. I’d like to see him crash the boards, I’d like to see him stay home when Biedrins has his man covered, but our front court is often so porous that it’s stupid for Ronny to stay home. I know you didn’t meant to criticize,a I just wanted to add another dimension to the analysis.
"No no Nene!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB5DxNl4EB0
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jan 7, 2009 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I LIKE RONNY.....
better than JACK, CRAWFISH..or MAGGS
by goldenboywarrior on Jan 6, 2009 12:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
but why? can't you like them all equally?
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a response to the "Salute to Ronny"?
http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2008/12/27/702901/a-salute-to-ronny
I hope so, cuz that would make me feel special.
Overall, there is plenty to complain about, but the good outweighs the bad for me (read the post for all the juicy details)
by andrisBthousand on Jan 6, 2009 1:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous
Want to know an interesting stat?
The Warriors are only a winning team when Ronny Turiaf is playing. Not only that, but he’s the only player on the Warriors for which that is true. See for yourself
He’s also the most unselfish player on our team. He understands that you have to actually move the ball around to have a successful offense, space the floor, and take good shots. He’s out there playing basketball when most of our players are playing streetball.
Complaints about Ronny… good lord
by YaHeard on Jan 6, 2009 2:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ronny might not be the best rebound,
but seriously for 4 mill he is a solid backup PF and C, that alawys plays hard and is a great guy by all acounts. He is also a team captain.
Can Turiaf improve his game, specifially his rebounding? Sure.
But with all the problems with this team, that doesnt crack the top 25 list…
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 6, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ronny's playing...but we still lose. So how does that work?
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
look at it again
We are a +2.43 team when Ronny is on the court. That’s our point margin against other teams “per game” (it’s pace adjusted).
We are a -10.46 team when Don Nelson sits Ronny’s ass on the bench.
Ronny’s no superstar, but he knows how to play winning basketball.
Suggestion: Why don’t we stop playing Rob Kurz and start playing Ronny more so we can actually get some stops.
by YaHeard on Jan 6, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Forget stops and winning,
I would settle with looking competetive….
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 6, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm...
I don’t recall when Ronny was out..other than the flu…which Brandon was also out. Magic and Nuggets. In both games that we lost. Shoot, forget it. Isn’t our score 10-25? Opps…26. So what..that’s 36 games? Minus 2 games that Ronny didn’t play…say 34.. in where we won 10. My stat tells me that’s still 24 games with Ronny, and we still lost.
See, stat isn’t reliable.
I’ll be happy even with or without stat… if we lose…at least like we fought hard. At least we hecka tried.
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See, stat isn’t reliable.
A complete and total misunderstanding of the statistic isn’t.
by jae on Jan 6, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh
and he’s a PF on any other team in the league, not a C like he is here.
by YaHeard on Jan 6, 2009 2:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
he can't rebound
but he can block shots.
So I pass on him and focus on others tubes of tallow lard.
=Gaucho=
by Gaucho! on Jan 6, 2009 2:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
a perfect signing for two or three years ago, and not a bad one now
If we’d had Ronny as a backup center/power forward in the “We Believe” playoffs, I wholeheartedly believe we would’ve made it past the Jazz in the second round.
We have to have at least one (more would be nice) utility bangers/shot blockers to help cover for our gambling defensive scheme and our shot selection / fast break offense that leaves the PF/C combo all alone in the paint way too often. Ronny is good value for a good player, and he’s the kind of piece that can make us a contender again (high-quality-depth) once we get Monta back and resolve the really poor decision making presently being made by Crawford and Jackson.
by wtfdaemon on Jan 6, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think
We should play Turiaf and Biedrins together more often, but either way Turiaf was a great pickup.
by pbra17 on Jan 6, 2009 3:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Turiaf and Biedrins
Don Nelson doesn’t understand the concept of playing two big men together. That’s blasphemy in his mind.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 6, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wright
Yeah, sure. I guess some people consider him a big man. Ha.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Jan 6, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s more of a “long”, not really a big.
by YaHeard on Jan 6, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not really a big.
Nope, He’s a short man stretched out to be tall, smash him back to proper proportions and you’ll have Earl Boykins.
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 6, 2009 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Biedrins and Turiaf are perfect compliments to eachother. One runs the pick-and-roll well, one runs the pick-and-pop well; one is a monster rebounder, one is a monster shotblocker; one is bulky, the other is agile.
by YaHeard on Jan 6, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DONT HATE , APPRECIATE
Ronny has given 110% to this team
We Believe 2.0!
I know the Warriors are a lot better than the way they're playing right now.
They just have to get healthy and dig deep. THERE'S MORE TO THIS TEAM.
by RunNdGun on Jan 6, 2009 6:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
there's a long list
before you get to Turiaf on what’s wrong with this franchise. None of them has been addressed.
by lightz0ut on Jan 6, 2009 8:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Starting with just the play on the court you probably got 10 bigger problems.
Now factor in Nellie vs his players and the front office powder keg and Turiaf’s rebounding or lack ther of doesnt seem like the biggest issue in Warrior land…
What is the status of our petitions to fire Robert Rowell and have Chris Cohan commit Hari Kiri, or at least sell the team?
by warriorsscore110 on Jan 6, 2009 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hm...
I believe there are numerous threads that have address issues. Corey, Cap Jack, CJ. Jamal..etc… I think Tony.PSD even wrote something about us complaining…what were his actual wordings? Something about him seeing it happening..the Warrior girl, Franco Finn..the nacho ..oh the announcers! “Are our announcers are annoying!” The thing though…no huge actions have been done. Maybe we should bust a Isiah Thomas. For those that dislike Nellie, boo him out. For people that aren’t happy with the Warrior boys, go ahead, write them some love letters. I think fan mail can be mail to…check the Warrior site.
And I…I…will just leave my train of thoughts here.
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
would you mind clearing that up....it will start to smell after a while... :)
your train of thought that is….. ;)
It's about heart, It's about fight, It's about being a Warrior!
by BritWarriorGSW on Jan 6, 2009 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know what you're writing about at all?
You seem lost
Thank you, Dubs.
by misterho on Jan 6, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm...
I think I do…but do you know you’re having a bad night?
by Shells on Jan 6, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually having a pretty fine evening
But at first I had to spend a minute or so trying to get some guy to realize how irrational and nonsensical he was being.
Thank you, Dubs.
by misterho on Jan 6, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
nellie's a loser
and he should be replaced by turiaf, who actually does understand the game. he could be a throwback player-coach playing about 15 minutes a game.
by nelliehater on Jan 9, 2009 9:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nelliehater
You should have a tag..or one of descriptive thingy where (above your name – whatever you call it) it tells us why you hate Nellie. It’s better than typing at every thread on your love for him.
You do realize for every time you hate someone, you are thinking of him/her. Now that is love. =X
(Please excuse my sentences..it’s so late…early in the morning that I’m becoming insane.But serious [maybe] take my advice.)
by Shells on Jan 10, 2009 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(Please excuse my sentences..it’s so late…early in the morning that I’m becoming insane.
It’s 10 o’clock, you are insane. or drunk?
Till I get free
I live my life in the Walmart
Cholesterol chasin me
by Skeptic con Urquell on Jan 10, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not when I post that message.
But I wish I could be both now.
by Shells on Jan 10, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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